House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[unwnd]

So that being said, what do you think of their stances? Even if there is still more to be desired. Do you believe they are being intentionally vague?

I don't think they're being intentionally vague, but I do feel like they're not seriously trying. I think my central issue is it feels like they had page 5 scumreads on Datisi/Luke/Dann and then haven't evolved them at all, nor given us any new ones that are demonstrably impacted by the past 60+ pages.

I think the towniest thing from this perspective is what I just said, the fact that their Lukewarm scumread seems to have slightly softened, the only scum!agenda I can see there is if they're trying not to piss off Lukewarm and bait him onto their wagon, but even then when Lukewarm indicated that he

didn't

like Dwlee's reaction/response, Dwlee still just kinda nonchalantly doubles down on it.

you're right overall, it's mostly that I desire a lot more from them more than I think these stances can't come from town

As I said, I think the situation is possibly TvS. I may be just paranoid(?) about datisi for no reason and Dwlee is just scum who doesn't give a fuck

[mastina]

Also, since a few people are getting limited on posts now, myself included, I think it is a good idea for us to move forward with TSQ king asap. If someone is opposed to this, they should make a clear case for someone better. If you're not opposed, vote Shea and let's get to voting scum out. I think we have pretty thoroughly explored the avenues in the king discussion at this point.

Anyone wondering where the scum influence on voting Shea through can look no further than this, because right here, you have the main culprit behind that election.

Shea was a piss-poor selection for king. He fails the first and largest criteria for King: being universally townread.
While I

believe

Shea to be town, it was not with the conviction needed to elect him as King.
And on top of that, while I know Shea to be a competent player, he is not immune to being influenced by scum.

More than that, this argument was slimey as fuck. We had not in fact thoroughly explored the avenues in the King discussion. Shea being King was NOT something we discussed--at all. Literally at all. There was ZERO discussion about Shea. NONE. So VP Baltar was outright lying here--and y'all believed him.

So you basically think the scum are getting rolled hard here and essentially have no influence? Seems a little optimistic.

And yet, you said nothing about the opposite position (the one GL argued against), that scum have had a ton of influence.

I wonder why you haven't mentioned that possibility at all?

Could it perhaps be...that you don't want people to realize that you are the scum influencing things?

'Cause from where I'm standing it sure as fuck looks like scum have a lot of influence!

Why didn't you engage with GL arguing basically this, that scum had no influence?
Why the focus on Datisi with this belief, rather than GL with that belief?

Could it perhaps be...because Datisi is town and GL is not???

I wonder!

[mastina]

Oh right I can do this now:
VOTE: VP Baltar

[GuiltyLion]

Shea was a piss-poor selection for king. He fails the first and largest criteria for King: being universally townread.

is Shea not universally townread? who is scumreading Shea?

[unwnd]

Also can you explain your Drapion read - I kinda townread his latest post about VPB spewing Titus town, I disagree with him entirely on VPB but I see the thought process there and think it's townie

Just got annoyed by how much I was seeing this pompous attitude from him. His presence isn't exactly overbearing but every post I read from him is the equivalent of 'hey guys I'm playing in this game too pls pay attention to me' and if you're going to play like that then I expect you to be more proactive

[JunkoChan]

@unwnd are you up to date? i thought you were going to wall post about so i didn't ask (i'm low on post) i would like to see your case on UNO in more detail, I had a scum vibe from him but it lowered as the day continued, not enougu to calle him deff-town but good enoughso I'm interested in that in particular and obviously the rest of your reads, your slot was a Big question mark for most of this day i don't know if you noticed

[unwnd]

I'm up to date but decided to sort of chop up my thoughts

I think more people prefer post post post post than just huge ass post they're gonna skim. Or maybe I'm projecting my bitterness

[unwnd]

Even though UNOwen is my BIG SCUMREAD I don't have much to say about him. I think he's scummy in a textbook way. Name one exchange that UNOwen made that seemed like he cared about figuring out your alignment. His posts read informed because he is only gesturing. By that, his gestures are only what is required of him. His posts about players are too focused on formality.

Is my reasoning on UNOwen

[JunkoChan]

I'm up to date but decided to sort of chop up my thoughts

I think more people prefer post post post post than just huge ass post they're gonna skim. Or maybe I'm projecting my bitterness

I preffer novels tyvm

[unwnd]

I'm shocked

The games I've read (and played with you) seemed like you were like ugh reading sux

[JunkoChan]

Even though UNOwen is my BIG SCUMREAD I don't have much to say about him. I think he's scummy in a textbook way. Name one exchange that UNOwen made that seemed like he cared about figuring out your alignment. His posts read informed because he is only gesturing. By that, his gestures are only what is required of him. His posts about players are too focused on formality.

Is my reasoning on UNOwen

I'm shocked

The games I've read (and played with you) seemed like you were like ugh reading sux

We have played a total of 1 Game and it was a micro lol and it depends on the writer, for example if You force me to read a book written by Andante I would pull my eyes out

Anyway that's a small take for the uno case, i'm asking because You seem really sure about it and it's one of shea's current council positions, could you flesh it out and also give me some impressions for the rest of the PL?

Back to post conservation mode, I'll be back if You post what i asked

[mastina]

i guess i don't *know* how capable of scum she is currently, but i remember a few people having an easy read on her and saying she's not that present/aggressive as scum, and she herself saying she's not capable of playing scum that well recently? but this is something i should probably check myself and it is not a priority at the moment

I can help you there! Not Quite Normal Multiball II was, explicitly, multiball so is not the most comparable to here, but can still get some.

CONTROL was one of the big two,
And subreddit UPick was the other one.

It should be noted that both of those games were before my plurality breakthrough of realizing there's literally hundreds of us tho, and that since that rl shift, I've yet to draw scum. So I'm not really sure how scumastina would play now. Maybe the current mastina would be better than the mastina in those games, but the only way I'll know that is if I actually do draw scum.

If anyone has any suggestions for me for king whether they be mech thoughts, speculations, people you think should have roles and people who you think shouldn't, now would be the time to throw them out into the world.

Don't fucking elect basically anyone who voted you as King.

I get that not everyone who voted you is scum, but seriously, look at the players who voted you:

Thestatusquo [11]:

Bellaphant, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Junkochan

, Unowen,

VP Baltar

, Andresvmb, Thestatusquo, Lukewarm, Datisi, Enchant

Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that you think that wagon is mostly town?

It's not.

It's fairly safe to have Andres on the council; universal townread.
I'd argue Unowen town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.
I'd argue Lukewarm town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.
I'd argue Datisi town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.

But the wagon on you is scumdriven as fuck and if you're not being blind, you should fucking realize this and stay the fuck away from electing the majority of your voters.

Instead,

Junkochan [3]:

Firebringer, ProfessorDrapion, PenguinPower

Andante [3]:

mastina, Rhaenyra, Andante,

VP Baltar [2]:

Charloux, Titus

Lady Lambdadelta [1]:

Lady Lambdadelta

not voting [1]: dwlee99

I would put unwnd in--unwnd inherited the Rhaenyra slot, which means that unwnd is 100% definitely town, but unlike Rhaenyra, unwnd is more conventionally sane. There should be no reason to reject unwnd based off of the erratic behavior of his predecessor, and he is definitely town thanks to his predecessor.

I would put Firebringer in since he is definitely town.

I would put Andante in, because again: universally, she is town. You might not trust her with every position, but there should be at least *a* position for her.

Beyond that, it becomes a lot more speculative.

But, I would lock in:
{Andresvmp, Rhaenyra/unwnd, Firebringer, Andante}, with the final two picks being more open to debate.

[mastina]

Shea was a piss-poor selection for king. He fails the first and largest criteria for King: being universally townread.

is Shea not universally townread? who is scumreading Shea?

Don't pretend that you don't know what I mean.

Shea was townread by most, but not to a strong degree.

When it came to the likes of players like Andres and Andante, it was "oh yeah, universally town and strongly so".

When it came to Shea it was more, "Shea is town I guess? I lean that way at least"--he was not a strong townread of anybody who was being fully honest.

Shea was not a confident townread of almost anybody--and the first criteria for King is

confidence

in the player being elected being town. Shea spectacularly failed to meet that criteria as most of the townreads there WERE "I guess town? idk", and similar.

But you are scum trying to cover up the tracks of scum so you already know this.

[unwnd]

Even though UNOwen is my BIG SCUMREAD I don't have much to say about him. I think he's scummy in a textbook way. Name one exchange that UNOwen made that seemed like he cared about figuring out your alignment. His posts read informed because he is only gesturing. By that, his gestures are only what is required of him. His posts about players are too focused on formality.

Is my reasoning on UNOwen

I'm shocked

The games I've read (and played with you) seemed like you were like ugh reading sux

We have played a total of 1 Game and it was a micro lol and it depends on the writer, for example if You force me to read a book written by Andante I would pull my eyes out

Anyway that's a small take for the uno case, i'm asking because You seem really sure about it and it's one of shea's current council positions, could you flesh it out and also give me some impressions for the rest of the PL?

Back to post conservation mode, I'll be back if You post what i asked

I don't think I have enough dirt on UNOwen to write a big case. I think his play is markedly impressionable. There's not a lot of places to sit down and go 'here is the hidden meaning of this post' because he doesn't have branches of thought. It does mayhap explain that formality that I latched onto where this is intentional cause he's scum? What are the arguments of him being town

[mastina]

I realize people tend to skim my posts so let me reiterate this to Shea.

If anyone has any suggestions for me for king whether they be mech thoughts, speculations, people you think should have roles and people who you think shouldn't, now would be the time to throw them out into the world.

Don't fucking elect basically anyone who voted you as King.

I get that not everyone who voted you is scum, but seriously, look at the players who voted you:

Thestatusquo [11]:

Bellaphant, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Junkochan

, Unowen,

VP Baltar

, Andresvmb, Thestatusquo, Lukewarm, Datisi, Enchant

Can you seriously tell me with a straight face that you think that wagon is mostly town?

It's not.

It's fairly safe to have Andres on the council; universal townread.
I'd argue Unowen town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.
I'd argue Lukewarm town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.
I'd argue Datisi town and a good choice, albeit not as universally townread.

But the wagon on you is scumdriven as fuck and if you're not being blind, you should fucking realize this and stay the fuck away from electing the majority of your voters.

I would put unwnd in--unwnd inherited the Rhaenyra slot, which means that unwnd is 100% definitely town, but unlike Rhaenyra, unwnd is more conventionally sane. There should be no reason to reject unwnd based off of the erratic behavior of his predecessor, and he is definitely town thanks to his predecessor.

I would put Firebringer in since he is definitely town.

I would put Andante in, because again: universally, she is town. You might not trust her with every position, but there should be at least *a* position for her.

Beyond that, it becomes a lot more speculative.

But, I would lock in:
{Andresvmp, Rhaenyra/unwnd, Firebringer, Andante}, with the final two picks being more open to debate.

@Thestatusquo / TSQ / Shea:

Just making sure you see this, in particular.

[JunkoChan]

Even though UNOwen is my BIG SCUMREAD I don't have much to say about him. I think he's scummy in a textbook way. Name one exchange that UNOwen made that seemed like he cared about figuring out your alignment. His posts read informed because he is only gesturing. By that, his gestures are only what is required of him. His posts about players are too focused on formality.

Is my reasoning on UNOwen

I'm shocked

The games I've read (and played with you) seemed like you were like ugh reading sux

We have played a total of 1 Game and it was a micro lol and it depends on the writer, for example if You force me to read a book written by Andante I would pull my eyes out

Anyway that's a small take for the uno case, i'm asking because You seem really sure about it and it's one of shea's current council positions, could you flesh it out and also give me some impressions for the rest of the PL?

Back to post conservation mode, I'll be back if You post what i asked

I don't think I have enough dirt on UNOwen to write a big case. I think his play is markedly impressionable. There's not a lot of places to sit down and go 'here is the hidden meaning of this post' because he doesn't have branches of thought. It does mayhap explain that formality that I latched onto where this is intentional cause he's scum? What are the arguments of him being town

Okay fair, what about the rest?

Well he is not my strongest town read but I also don't have anything to show You hey this is FOR SURE townie, but i liked Shea's 1746

[unwnd]

Not too interested in talking about the others

Insert I play a priority game etc.

[GuiltyLion]

Don't pretend that you don't know what I mean.

Shea was townread by most, but not to a strong degree.

When it came to the likes of players like Andres and Andante, it was "oh yeah, universally town and strongly so".

When it came to Shea it was more, "Shea is town I guess? I lean that way at least"--he was not a strong townread of anybody who was being fully honest.

Shea was not a confident townread of almost anybody--and the first criteria for King is confidence in the player being elected being town. Shea spectacularly failed to meet that criteria as most of the townreads there WERE "I guess town? idk", and similar.

But you are scum trying to cover up the tracks of scum so you already know this.

I think you are wrong in your assumption/claim that people weren't confidently townreading Shea. I had him as a confident townread, moreso than Andante for me personally, and I would argue that if people weren't confident in him being King they wouldn't have voted him. Even if you think all 5 scum voted for him, that's still 5 other town players who also voted him. Why don't you ask Luke/Datisi/Andres about whether they were strongly townreading Shea?

to me I am struggling to think you're not just making up claims about people's reads to further embellish your VPB scum case.

[UNOwen]

Not too interested in talking about the others

Insert I play a priority game etc.

Junko asked me to convey the message that she expected more from your response, but she wishes you a good day all the same.

[unwnd]

Oh hey

You're the tree I'm looking for

[UNOwen]

many people say the same, I do have a wonderful tree

[unwnd]

Do you have any defense to my accusations made about you

[mastina]

I feel like she was a little more open to hearing what I had to say despite scum reading me. like, there was some consideration of my worldview of the game even if she ended up shutting it down.

My scumread on you in that game was largely based on your stances, and having believed your stances came from competent scum trying to make the most pro-scum decisions possible upon replacing in.

You were still making good, townie points, but your posting was all-around night and day different from your posts this game.

I owe an apology to past-town-you for having not realized what scum-you is like and how fucking obvious it is (and in hindsight, how stupid my scumread there was).

[datisi, thestatusquo, andres, unowen
[rhaenyra, vpbaltar, firebringer?, LLD]
[titus?, penguinpower, charloux, PD, enchant, adante]
[mastina, guiltylion]
[dwlee, bellaphant]

idk my thoughts are kinda haphazard

In a way a town-Dann wouldn't be, that's for sure!

[mastina]

Even if you think all 5 scum voted for him, that's still 5 other town players who also voted him. Why don't you ask Luke/Datisi/Andres about whether they were strongly townreading Shea?

Because I already know the answer there is that anyone saying they were that strongly townreading Shea is lying their asses off.

I would argue that if people weren't confident in him being King they wouldn't have voted him.

You sure would like to argue it to cover up for how scum artificially inflated the optimal nature of voting Shea.

But you already know that. As a reminder:

Also, since a few people are getting limited on posts now, myself included, I think it is a good idea for us to move forward with TSQ king asap. If someone is opposed to this, they should make a clear case for someone better. If you're not opposed, vote Shea and let's get to voting scum out. I think we have pretty thoroughly explored the avenues in the king discussion at this point.

Anyone wondering where the scum influence on voting Shea through can look no further than this, because right here, you have the main culprit behind that election.

Shea was a piss-poor selection for king. He fails the first and largest criteria for King: being universally townread.
While I

believe

Shea to be town, it was not with the conviction needed to elect him as King.
And on top of that, while I know Shea to be a competent player, he is not immune to being influenced by scum.

More than that, this argument was slimey as fuck. We had not in fact thoroughly explored the avenues in the King discussion. Shea being King was NOT something we discussed--at all. Literally at all. There was ZERO discussion about Shea. NONE. So VP Baltar was outright lying here--and y'all believed him.

So you basically think the scum are getting rolled hard here and essentially have no influence? Seems a little optimistic.

And yet, you said nothing about the opposite position (the one GL argued against), that scum have had a ton of influence.

I wonder why you haven't mentioned that possibility at all?

Could it perhaps be...that you don't want people to realize that you are the scum influencing things?

'Cause from where I'm standing it sure as fuck looks like scum have a lot of influence!

Why didn't you engage with GL arguing basically this, that scum had no influence?
Why the focus on Datisi with this belief, rather than GL with that belief?

Could it perhaps be...because Datisi is town and GL is not???

I wonder!

[unwnd]

Nobody tell mastina I think she might be town this game