House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

If anything I think a dwlee green flip looks worse for me than a red flip and I'm sure I'll have to deal with disingenuous arguments about how I was TMIing their alignment even though I think the reasoning for limming them is classic lim the lurker where the lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

I think as I have stated before a Dwlee town flip looks better for you.

That was until you took up stock in Waffle House without pushing any other scumread. Still a little better on a town flip but not as much as before.

Are you joking? The claim that I haven't been pushing my scum read is like...Have you even read the thread levels of wrong.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'll be surprised if this is scum

[Thestatusquo]

Not quite as wrong as claiming I lurk as scum, but like I have been pretty clear I want GL limmed today.

[Andresvmb]

Trying to limit the post count so here’s things I think need addressing. This is not post by post but rather concepts to avoid spamming the thread.

1) I really don’t like how wagons are starting up counter to Dwlee. There have been very few attempts to explain why Dwlee is town but instead who we should elim. I find this scummy AF. (Yes there are *exceptions* to this but this is a generality). Dwlee themselves have expressed a lack of WIM and very much seem in shutdown mode. To those proposing an alternate elim without an explanation here, assume your elim is instantly flipped. What stops day three from being a repeat of day two which was a repeat of day one.

2) I really don’t like the mis characterization of taking over/in charge. Expressing confidence != taking over. I expressed a theory. It’s a theory I want to test with Dwlee’s elim. I don’t like how Shea is particularly walking back the TR of Dwlee either. If you had a TR strong enough to shoot Maria to avoid the elim you should be able to quantify that in a way that’s understandable so right or wrong you can be sorted. The lack of accountability is horrible

3) Roden wanting to catch up but ignoring questions. I asked a simple question in response to a long post he had and he ignored it. I am not in any PT that talks of overthrowing the king and talks only seemed to start after my suggestion in thread. I want to know who supports the king who would overthrow and who is ambivalent. Asking a simple question I hope can get an answer.

4) Andante’s reads make no sense. I struggle with a town or scum perspective though. A big flaw is assume I and Datisi are scum. Why are you against the new council suggestion I have? It feels argumentative for argumentative sake. Could be he didn’t like he didn’t have the courage to say it or scum trying to sound reasonable but it sounds anything but.

5) I really want to see Titus and LLD do more. Granted knowing them they were likely active previously but whatever alignment they are I want to see more of them.

Overall I scumread a majority of council for being extremely sus
Shea- Why shoot Maria? Why stop Dwlee elim? Why the power grants then? Seems more trying to be angry than trying to solve. Lots of active lurking.
Firebringer - Money related said we won’t talk money in thread but with Luke dying seems sus and would love an audit.
Andante - Reads don’t follow conclusions.
Andres - Towniest of the group but nervous he’s in lurker territory
Johnny - Likely scum if Shea is to keep council in scum’s hands. I don’t really like his play and think it’s off from town him.

I don’t think all of them can be scum and I am probably wrong somewhere but it’s enough bad vibes to want to reform the council with new people if Dwlee flips scum.

It’s just that strategically I don’t agree with you. The Council is acting in ways I don’t necessarily agree with, but I think you can see it. I was very against the shot by TSQ and have absolutely expressed that. Particularly in the Kingsguard PT so perhaps others can comment, but I don’t think it tilts Scum. Even if TSQ is pocketed, it’s hard to get pocketed by the entire Team. I know I’m Town, and we know Luke was Town also. So there’s a decent chance TSQ has filled other slots with just Town and they’re Town. If DW flips Scum, then Datisi is most likely Town. And I don’t agree with Andante’s view of the Junko slot, who I TR’ed. So no, I don’t think the entire Council is just bad.

[Thestatusquo]

Junko slot is still my strongest townread in the game, even if mathblade is making me tear all my hair out.

[Andresvmb]

I want to see what happens overnight to make more definitive comments on Firebringer, and I’m waffling there a bit (I had a stronger TR’ed there earlier in the game). And well, I do SR Johnny (and apparently they SR me back), so I want to be extra careful about any decisions made. But I need to keep an open mind and see what DW flips.

[MathBlade]

Accurate to me. All you’ve done is complain and be rawr Angry Shea since I replaced in.

I have zero idea who you scumread besides GL who you just posted about. Like you haven’t been pushing GL at all. It’s all complainy Shea.

Pedit:

I agree on the Shea being pocketed.

I just think town nominated scum D1.

Like I said you deemed town but scared of lurking. The more you post the lurker fear goes away and probably town.

I agree the entire council likely isn’t bad (I TR Datisi) but it’s likely enough to where I would want a hard reset of it. We need to have townreads as King and Money dude since those are hardest to fix if things go south.

[GuiltyLion]

I try to lim scum and not lim town. I think limming lurkers is an extremely lazy and ineffective way to do that. If somehow you're town this game we're going to have to be very careful if we play together in the future because it seems like the way we approach the game is fundamentally quite different.

As for lurkers flipping scum more often than town that has not been my experience because town lurkers tend to get pushed more than scum lurkers because scum has high incentive to push lurkers for easy lims. Which is sure what it seems like you're doing here to me.

I think the idea that scum is more likely to push lurkers is like, level 0 play. scum are scared of being called out for pushing LHF. IMO scum has much higher incentive to stay away from that, afraid of it as a trap, and instead just loudly tunnel town voices who are right to break up towncore (see: mastina)

[Andresvmb]

It’s just that the thought that I’ve lurked this game is kind of nuts actually. Out of any game I’ve played over the last several months (like ask Datisi), this is by far the most active I’ve been and the most I’ve interacted in real time to whatever I’m seeing. I’ve also read a lot of the early pages (say the first 50) a few times. This is rare activity from me, and yet I’m being accused of lurking I mean haha I definitely can’t win on that.

[MathBlade]

I try to lim scum and not lim town. I think limming lurkers is an extremely lazy and ineffective way to do that. If somehow you're town this game we're going to have to be very careful if we play together in the future because it seems like the way we approach the game is fundamentally quite different.

As for lurkers flipping scum more often than town that has not been my experience because town lurkers tend to get pushed more than scum lurkers because scum has high incentive to push lurkers for easy lims. Which is sure what it seems like you're doing here to me.

I think the idea that scum is more likely to push lurkers is like, level 0 play. scum are scared of being called out for pushing LHF. IMO scum has much higher incentive to stay away from that, afraid of it as a trap, and instead just loudly tunnel town voices who are right to break up towncore (see: mastina)

Maybe it’s because I am a replacement but I don’t see what towncore she’s breaking?

I also don’t see what she’s right about.

She feels tunnelled that Dwlee is town but is accidentally/purposefully questions that challenge her narrative.

I asked her what she expected to happen (or anyone TRing Dwlee) and that post was ignored.

It really sours me on her argument.

[MathBlade]

It’s just that the thought that I’ve lurked this game is kind of nuts actually. Out of any game I’ve played over the last several months (like ask Datisi), this is by far the most active I’ve been and the most I’ve interacted in real time to whatever I’m seeing. I’ve also read a lot of the early pages (say the first 50) a few times. This is rare activity from me, and yet I’m being accused of lurking I mean haha I definitely can’t win on that.

I haven’t read D1.

Recent posting was pretty quiet from you in the PT and the main thread.

So you seem lurkery

[Andresvmb]

Mastina’s 2984 is absurd with the information we have. You could probably make that argument for almost any slot that gets run up two days in a row, regardless of alignment. I’m a little baffled by it honestly.

[GuiltyLion]

Maybe it’s because I am a replacement but I don’t see what towncore she’s breaking?

early in the game I felt there was a nice VPB/Andres/GL/TSQ coalition forming, and mastina started (illogically, IMO) railing against GL/VPB as a power wolf duo and has not stopped since. We were all a bit paranoid on Datisi early IIRC but VPB/I have since also recognized him as town.

[Andresvmb]

It’s just that the thought that I’ve lurked this game is kind of nuts actually. Out of any game I’ve played over the last several months (like ask Datisi), this is by far the most active I’ve been and the most I’ve interacted in real time to whatever I’m seeing. I’ve also read a lot of the early pages (say the first 50) a few times. This is rare activity from me, and yet I’m being accused of lurking I mean haha I definitely can’t win on that.

I haven’t read D1.

Recent posting was pretty quiet from you in the PT and the main thread.

So you seem lurkery

Okay but haha D2 is quite visibly an extension of D1 when the majority of the game did not get the execution they almost landed on because TSQ shot a Town to end the day (a Town that had I think 3 votes). It shouldn’t surprise you that there’s less posts today with the information we have given the context we’re in. That’s why your accusation that I’m lurking is not just baseless, but dangerous. I’ve seen spurts of activity with players replacing others, which is what I’ve been trying to stay on top of, but there’s only so much you can argue for something when the information isn’t revealed to back it up.

[GuiltyLion]

honestly Mastina is probably the correct elimination today in either Dwlee town/scum world, but it's too late to shift the wagon over methinks

[Andresvmb]

And you cannot tell me that all of those Dwlee voters look town.

Titus's vote is transparently from scum.
furtiveglance's vote is transparently from scum.
Dannflor's vote is transparently from scum.
I've extensively covered why VP Baltar and GuiltyLion are scum.

Check their votes for Dwlee and tell me they're town. I fucking dare you to.

Dwlee is town.
There is zero real reason for the wagon to be on them.

I wish I had the confidence to make pronouncements like this. There’s no way any Town player honestly believes that they can nail a Team of 5 Scum this early. A POE that contains all of them at this stage would be impressive (not impossible), but the entire Team nailed? Highly unlikely. I wouldn’t even pretend that my accuracy is this good. I would be extremely happy to get 2 Scum nailed here, because then you actually force the Scum to come out aggressively.

[Thestatusquo]

Maybe it’s because I am a replacement but I don’t see what towncore she’s breaking?

early in the game I felt there was a nice VPB/Andres/GL/TSQ coalition forming, and mastina started (illogically, IMO) railing against GL/VPB as a power wolf duo and has not stopped since. We were all a bit paranoid on Datisi early IIRC but VPB/I have since also recognized him as town.

I do not really agree that you and VPB displayed much paranoia on datisi.

[Thestatusquo]

honestly Mastina is probably the correct elimination today in either Dwlee town/scum world, but it's too late to shift the wagon over methinks

I would lim mastina. I'm a little bit wary that its coming from you, though.

But I also just kind of want to flip dwlee now because at the very least it will give people clarity on a bunch of slots.

[Enchant]

I have feeling Dwlee flip something to piss me off.


If i hammer him, he flip town.
If i don't, he flip mafia.


shredinger

[Andresvmb]

Like “transparently” from Scum is crazy. In this world, the entire Council is pure, and the Scum are not the ones trying to usurp power from the King? Nonsense.

[Enchant]

Fine let's do it.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Andresvmb]

Fine let's do it.

VOTE: Dwlee

Didn’t you say you didn’t have any incentive to do this?

[GuiltyLion]

if you go and reread my early interactions with Datisi I am clearly engaging and sorting him, particularly 100, 102, 108, 589

[MathBlade]

Like “transparently” from Scum is crazy. In this world, the entire Council is pure, and the Scum are not the ones trying to usurp power from the King? Nonsense.

I agree with this sentiment. Who is it in response to? Sorry had a meeting.

[Datisi]

my experience with both scum baltar and scum guiltylion tells me this is far more and convincing paranoia on my slot they have ever / could ever show but i am a silly townie pocketed by the powerwolf duo