House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Dannflor]

frankly LLD, you straight up avoided commenting on the dwlee wagon except to shade datisi

I don't think my points about how you handled your UNOwen town read should be relegated to game state reads

I am projecting some overconfidence atm because I think it's the best way for me to sink my teeth back in this game, so I'm not going to act like I can't be wrong in one or several places, but I feel like you're misrepresenting some of my issues

I'm empathetic to having trouble getting back into the game though. do you have any strong feelings on any other slots in the game right now that you can elaborate on?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Er, I hit enter before I could highlight everything, but the general gist is this.

He says one line about my take on the importance of the first vote being LAMIST (which is a misrepresentation of my point)

He says the whole shea wagon is town because of how fast it grew (In truth, I had more than enough time to support and drive that wagon, and had a good hand in it likely given I flipped my read on Shea from scum to town very early and when asked if I would oppose the wagon, didn't stand in the way of it either)

The story Dann is telling is just false. I had every place time and opportunity to stand in the way or throw my support as I wished.

Calling the whole shea wagon town because of it's speed is ridiculous, calling my wagon scum is ridiculous.

Calling RHEA/UNWND's slot here scum is ridiculous IMO.

It's... this whole case is a fucking mess, it doesn't say anything, it doesn't address any motivations, it makes fallicious logical arguments that aren't supported by how the game has gone

and most importantly

it doesn't address Dwlee's scum flip and the wagon around Dwlee even remotely, which is HYPER weird.

[Dannflor]

I think I made my stance about Dwlee's wagon pretty clear and what it means pretty clear?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

frankly LLD, you straight up avoided commenting on the dwlee wagon except to shade datisi

I don't think my points about how you handled your UNOwen town read should be relegated to game state reads

I am projecting some overconfidence atm because I think it's the best way for me to sink my teeth back in this game, so I'm not going to act like I can't be wrong in one or several places, but I feel like you're misrepresenting some of my issues

I'm empathetic to having trouble getting back into the game though. do you have any strong feelings on any other slots in the game right now that you can elaborate on?

My dude, you don't get to post a slanderous case on me, misrepresent me again in this post in THIS WAY again, given you know I dno't explain my townreads, and then ask me to work with you.

My top 2 town reads were Luke and Junko, and they died fucking Night 1 and Night 2. I asked Datisi a question to try and invest and overall couldn't. I had 0 presence on day 2 and prod dodged my way through the whole fucking day. Ascribing any intent to me yesterday is fucking impossible.

And it's bullshit, you're not putting on this fake act for your own benefit, you're doing it for the benefit of others.

One more time, for the people in the back.

DWLEE FLIPPED SCUM DANNFLOR, WHO IS DWLEE'S PARTNER?

[Dannflor]

He says the whole shea wagon is town because of how fast it grew

that's not what I said

I independently town read the shapers of the wagon

I additionally think the speed of the wagon means that it is less likely that scum could have intentionally decided to boost Shea through that wagon

it feels like you're not actually reading and just reflexively scum reading me

[Dannflor]

DWLEE FLIPPED SCUM DANNFLOR, WHO IS DWLEE'S PARTNER?

I don't think Rhae campaigning so hard for mastina is town indicative. I think it's more likely that Rhae would campaign that openly for a townie she can TMI and pocket as scum. Largely though, I hate unwnd's interaction with Dwlee and I feel like the way he was hardcore pushing other wagons but simultaneously sussing/sorting Dwlee felt... not very genuine. Like he wanted to kill in Charloux (town) or Enchant, which were both very similar slots to Dwlee, but town read Dwlee on meta reasons, but also seemed very confused by Dwlee's play like in posts 2086 and 2105. It doesn't really feel like real progression or interaction on either side. To me, it reads like someone who was hyper aware of dwlee's alignment and whose first priority was to setup as natural looking of interactions as possible.

Titus, like I don't know, this is my least strong scum read out of the three, but she's done nothing. I know this is rich coming from me, but even when Titus has been here and posting she has been self admittedly coasting.

I absolutely think Dwlee was bussed. There is no way they weren't bussed by at least one maybe two scum members. But probably only after momentum built on them. Titus fits the MO of hopping on the wagon and *hard bussing* dwlee through D1 in 2361 despite trying to push alternate wagons for VCA purposes a few hundred posts earlier. I think it's likely the scum changed tune and started hard bussing Dwlee only when it looked like momentum wasn't swinging off of Dwlee (which I think could be fair to suspect given the way momentum originally grew on Dwlee). Titus fits this spot.

Who else is scum? My hip shoot is the Roden/Penguin Power slot because they also fit a similar slot as Titus in only really committing to bussing after the momentum was there to stay. Professor Drapion I had a weird reachy town read on D1 and I kinda want to hold on to that. furtiveglance/enchant I don't town read.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, your whole case on me focuses on a bunch of empty air and conjecture.

"She didn't explain her town reads when confirmed town player Lukewarm said she wouldn't"
"She put emphasis on the importance of a vote, how LAMIST"

Like... nothing you have here is remotely damning or scummy, and it coming as a giant case with that kind of effort off me trying to push at Andante someone you apparently never mention as a read in that post at all is fucking WEIRD.

What's your read on Andante, Dannflor?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

DWLEE FLIPPED SCUM DANNFLOR, WHO IS DWLEE'S PARTNER?

I don't think Rhae campaigning so hard for mastina is town indicative. I think it's more likely that Rhae would campaign that openly for a townie she can TMI and pocket as scum. Largely though, I hate unwnd's interaction with Dwlee and I feel like the way he was hardcore pushing other wagons but simultaneously sussing/sorting Dwlee felt... not very genuine. Like he wanted to kill in Charloux (town) or Enchant, which were both very similar slots to Dwlee, but town read Dwlee on meta reasons, but also seemed very confused by Dwlee's play like in posts 2086 and 2105. It doesn't really feel like real progression or interaction on either side. To me, it reads like someone who was hyper aware of dwlee's alignment and whose first priority was to setup as natural looking of interactions as possible.

Titus, like I don't know, this is my least strong scum read out of the three, but she's done nothing. I know this is rich coming from me, but even when Titus has been here and posting she has been self admittedly coasting.

I absolutely think Dwlee was bussed. There is no way they weren't bussed by at least one maybe two scum members. But probably only after momentum built on them. Titus fits the MO of hopping on the wagon and *hard bussing* dwlee through D1 in 2361 despite trying to push alternate wagons for VCA purposes a few hundred posts earlier. I think it's likely the scum changed tune and started hard bussing Dwlee only when it looked like momentum wasn't swinging off of Dwlee (which I think could be fair to suspect given the way momentum originally grew on Dwlee). Titus fits this spot.

Who else is scum? My hip shoot is the Roden/Penguin Power slot because they also fit a similar slot as Titus in only really committing to bussing after the momentum was there to stay. Professor Drapion I had a weird reachy town read on D1 and I kinda want to hold on to that. furtiveglance/enchant I don't town read.

You said nothing here. You said literal nothing here, you even said it yourself.

You are shooting bullets at the slots with the LEAST ACTIVITY. Myself, Titus, PP. None of us had any real hand in the Dwlee wagon.

Here's the thing. Why aren't you looking at who protected Dwlee Day 1 for scum, instead of saying things like "Oh titus did nothing, and that fits the busser" (which, btw, it doesn't. Someone bussing needs to be able to own that fucking cred. Titus can't claim the towncred for hitting Dwlee so why not lurk it out?)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your arguments are nonsensical.

You use baseless wagon conjecture to wave your hands and say "this part good this part bad" and then try to use PoE analysis off that bad logic to identify targets you yourself split apart on criteria that you decided without any real value or reason to why.

Then you shot at the people with low post counts, and your arguments for why are transparently lacking, which is weird because if I wanted to shoot at titus I would have like at least talked about how Titus isn't using her PT with people to plot and plan.

Or about how Titus wants to overthrow Shea.

Both of those are notable things, but nothing about those.

Dann, I don't know what your alignment here is, but your case is empty air. It's possible for you to do this as town, but the motivation to do so would essentially be "let's get back into the game by shooting at the lurker slots, that'll make me look better and buy me time".

that's what I get from your case, so if you are town, know that's not a winning strategy, my dude.

and if you're scum, I guess try to make better points that aren't so hollowly transparent.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, this was frustrating and unfun so I'm gonna take another break. I'll be back... I dunno, when I'm not coughing up a lung or snowed into my house

[VP Baltar]

I had 0 presence on day 2 and prod dodged my way through the whole fucking day. Ascribing any intent to me yesterday is fucking impossible.

You don't think it's scummy to prod dodge through a day that was 80% likely to end in a scum yeet and then brag about how you have no associatives?

[Datisi]

@VP, @Datisi, @GuiltyLion, @Titus, I’m fine with a Johnny execution, and I will most definitely vote there if needed. I’m finding the argument that Rhaenyra wouldn’t try so strongly to put Town they seem to be solid as King to the point where they rage quit the game somewhat persuasive.

i don't think it's a ridiculous argument, but i do think it's inherently wifom and that the bad johnny stuff does not outweigh that. especially the council thread posting.

and they didn't ragequit the game, they got force replaced.

---

Roden, if GL is scum, why are you not voting him? Also, who else is scum? Why are you convinced Johnny is town?

oh hey, exactly what i was thinking about. very cool.

i skimmed the roden/gl argument. i didn't see anything from roden that made me want to change my vote. (and if he weren't arguing with gl, i'd even say i suspect this to be a walling svs fight meant to bore everyone to death.)

---

i tried to read their stuff + dann's wall in depth, but uh. big tired head empty. i'm around for like half an hour if someone wants to realtime about something, tho.

[Roden]

Roden, if GL is scum, why are you not voting him? Also, who else is scum? Why are you convinced Johnny is town?

What does voting GL right now do? There's no pressure from it, no one seems go he agreeing with here or in the PT but no one's really trying to stop me either. I'm more interested in discerning GL's alignment than trying to flip him outright, the same reason I wasn't voting him yesterday.

I posted thoughts on my reads in the PT but my other scum reads are LLD and Owen. Also not really opposed to an Andres elim. Dann's read on me is pretty bad considering the past few games and the PYP that just ended, but it would be weird if he were S/S with LLD. And this isn't necessarily a scum read, but my town read on Shea has lessened throughout today, I expected them to come at today at a different angle and haven't really seen that.

Johnny is town to me because Rhae felt super townie in the non-supporter PT. Dwlee forging associatives with unwnd on their way out the door also just doesn't make sense if they're partners. OTOH, Johnny doing pretty much nothing is a valid reason to want to vote him today, so I get why he's under suspicion. I just don't see much of a case on him right now.

[Roden]

Datisi what about my play this game actually makes sense as scum

[Roden]

"Alright Dwlee, I just replaced in and know you're going down, so I'm gonna hard defend you upon entry so that we're immediately associated with each other. Make sure to do absolutely nothing so that I look worse, meanwhile I'm going to attack obvtown GL so that I never receive any support in this game. Man I'm so good at scum it's scary"

[Datisi]

i explained in my d3 intro post why i think your play very much makes sense coming from a partner replacing in

defending johnny makes sense as a buddy or as t/s and the defense itself is meh

and i am not very moved by most "i wouldn't have done this as scum" arguments because yeah

i don't feel like your scumread on gl is genuine because it feels like nitpicking stuff that isn't actually ai

if you don't feel like you can sell us on him being scum, why are you wasting so much energy arguing with him instead of trying to work with others elsewhere

[Roden]

I saw your case, it's just incorrect and not even remotely to how I or really anyone ever plays mafia

[VP Baltar]

What does voting GL right now do? There's no pressure from it, no one seems go he agreeing with here or in the PT but no one's really trying to stop me either. I'm more interested in discerning GL's alignment than trying to flip him outright, the same reason I wasn't voting him yesterday.

This doesn't make much sense. You're not voting because you don't think you can get support...but you also are "discerning" his alignment still? So do you think he's scum or not?

Do you only vote people when it's popular or when you're 100% convinced? Is that your meta?

[Dannflor]

why should i town read you off of PYP, roden?

[Dannflor]

yeah okay, LLD, I hear you

I don't think I'm entirely wrong but also I think I'm getting better at knowing when I'm confbiasing because a team solve floated across my eyes and I do think I slipped into it a little bit when catching up

I'll try to give you something you can engage with

[Andante]

sup

[Andante]

So I was looking at stuff, saw this:

Dwlee99 [1]: VP Baltar

then went looking for the vote:

lukewarm and baltar are overlooking the key difference between guardians and this game - an ic is always going to be a townie, the question is just whether it's gonna be me or another townie. here, king isn't guaranteed to be town. i know i'm town.

---

In post 200, VP Baltar wrote:
VOTE: dwlee

why dwlee? i was starting to feel they're kinda scummy

On the IC part, idk, feels like you're splitting hairs. King is going to be a lot of responsibility I assume, and the feeling seems like it would be similar since, as you confirm, you know you're town.

Are you advocating for yourself to be king now seriously?

On dwlee, voted there because I felt like it. I don't have a scummy vibe there at this point, and I think it's pretty unlikely I follow Mastina's proposal.

And I'm not too sure what I think here, cause I think Datisi and VP just feel odd here, I could see both talking about a scum partner!Dwlee, like, idk that interaction just reads weird to me knowing now that Dwlee was scum.

But I know I wanted to call Datisi twn for the Dwlee flip, however reading this makes me want to go back and see what actually cause Dwlee to call Datisi maf, cause suddenly I'm thinking it's probably not a good reason to call Datisi town.. idk, that's probably my next line of thought to look at, but it's not happening tonight

[Andante]

I Firebringer, Paramount of the Reach, and trusted Master of Coin. Hereby declare a Trial by combat to the filthy traitor Lord UNOwen of House Glover. He has betrayed Lord of Winterfell Datisi and by extension his highness King Shea First of His Name, by plotting treason to overthrow his Majesty. This crime will not stand!

Accept Challenge

I'll be honest, I don't get this mechanic.

Fantastic flavor!

I still feel good about voting here, like, UNO isn't doing anything.. literally nothing... and I want to say I remember UNO doing stuff in another game (don't quote me cause idk) but yeah, I figured I'd check in, see if I needed to at least unvote, nope. vote is staying here

[UNOwen]

I still feel good about voting here, like, UNO isn't doing anything.. literally nothing... and I want to say I remember UNO doing stuff in another game (don't quote me cause idk) but yeah, I figured I'd check in, see if I needed to at least unvote, nope. vote is staying here

Quoting you here to say that you must be remembering wrong, the idea that I would ever bring myself to actually doing stuff is preposterous.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

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