Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[innocentvillager]

what was obvious, to who, why might I think that sells me as town to those people?

[innocentvillager]

“but I think in that scenario you have overestimated how obvious it is to those who didn't already have the pre-knowledge that gera wasn't scum.”

How is this possible if there was an entire wagon on geraint and only a couple people genuinely defeated geraint (and even those were just NAI reads mostly)

[innocentvillager]

The rest of it doesn’t seemed unreasonable (I do think the way you described as scum sort of, but that still doesn’t make my behavior indicative)

And yes you are wrong on me doing some high IQ play, I wasn’t, I merely realized as I interacted with him that was very clearly town

[innocentvillager]

I can guarantee you that I am not able to play with this much engagement and fluidity if I am scum, and I think some others can attest to that. I don’t think many people on this site can either. I think you should focus your efforts elsewhere but if we need to get over this now we can

[innocentvillager]

“but I think in that scenario you have overestimated how obvious it is to those who didn't already have the pre-knowledge that gera wasn't scum.”

How is this possible if there was an entire wagon on geraint and only a couple people genuinely defeated geraint (and even those were just NAI reads mostly)

Defended not defeated

[innocentvillager]

I genuinely think with more time I could’ve convinced him to claim. It would’ve required like a lot of Real-time back and forth but fortunately he has a thing called mafia-life balance that I don’t have that cut our time short. I didn’t want to policy him, I genuinely tried to get him to cooperate and I thought there was a shot.

[innocentvillager]

That’s what I thought yesterday

I’ll revisit at a later time I guess

I feel like I want to hear from others first.

[innocentvillager]

resetting all my reads

Why do you feel the need to reset your reads at this stage in the game?

[innocentvillager]

complacency is bad

can you elaborate on your answer? I'm genuinely very curious because this was not at all my feeling upon entering this Day 2. Do you just "reset" your reads every game day? I don't feel like you do.

[innocentvillager]

The main thing that stops me from wanting Scol is just how absolutely dead the gamestate was at EOD. gera was likely to go through but not at all certain. If Scol was scum I would've expected more activity/more urgency from both Scol and his team to move towards gera.

[innocentvillager]

The quotes speak for themselves

[innocentvillager]

Neither Pooky nor Scol feel Townie today

[innocentvillager]

Scol did the same thing yesterday when I started expressing suspicion on him. That’s two examples of seeing Scol’s read on someone change once he gets scumread (me at eod1, and now with KittyTacky). Looks a little bit sus to me.

[innocentvillager]

The quotes speak for themselves

♔ ♕ ♖ ♗ ♘ ♙

Good anal ysis

[innocentvillager]

Idk Pooky and Scol both feel kind of scummy today, Scol’s scumminess sort of started yesterday

I kinda doubt it’s SvS though? I mean maybe? But unlikely

I think I want to vote in these two slots today so I’m interested in how this fight develops.

[innocentvillager]

Idk Pooky and Scol both feel kind of scummy today, Scol’s scumminess sort of started yesterday

I kinda doubt it’s SvS though? I mean maybe? But unlikely

I think I want to vote in these two slots today so I’m interested in how this fight develops.

Yeah I hate to break it to you (not really, I love it) but I'm expecting you to carry this game and I'm not intending on fighting it out with my scum reads. I feel like you've come close to solving this game two or three times now and I feel like I'm potentially throwing you off trail with my stinky "scumminess." I don't know what to say other than that it isn't me, I swear.

Why are you pandering to me instead of casing the others? Your mindset doesn’t really make sense.

It seems like you’ve literally “solved the game” but are just sitting back and going “lol pooks u scum and it’s not me I promise haha figure it out!” like what

[innocentvillager]

I’m obviously conflicted on who’s scum and it seems like you’re not. Saying I’ve come close to “solving the game” feels like you know more than me. If you’re town I don’t know why in your right mind you would tell ME to be the one carrying. I’m just very concerned about the way you’re handling this day

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Scoliosis for now

[innocentvillager]

No that’s not really what I’m saying

If he’s an overconfident Townie that’s fine, that by itself isn’t necessarily sus?

I’m saying that the way he handled it by lol catting Pooky and then pandering to me with those posts is not the mindset that I think an overconfident Townie takes

[innocentvillager]

This feels like someone who is tired of playing scum and wants to lazily lolcat and have fun rather than actually try to fake a nuanced town process which I’m sure Scol is very capable of

[innocentvillager]

Like why is he appealing to me to solve the game if he thinks he already has and refuses to “fight” his scumreads Kitty skitter and Pooky it just makes zero sense to me

[innocentvillager]

Well skitter is v/la now so we can’t kill Scol until at least Sunday

[innocentvillager]

I am starting to become paranoid of Ydrasse

[innocentvillager]

If Scol isn’t scum I feel that Ydrasse + Pooky scum is where I’m looking

[innocentvillager]

Wat

[innocentvillager]

Hello i'm around
I had surgery two days ago so i've been a little out of it >.>

Hope you recover soon

[innocentvillager]

Still think u might be scum tho :/

[innocentvillager]

if anything I'd actually expect Scol's teammates to be on Scol's wagon because it

looks better

in post analysis? If we flip them both and Scol is S and Gera T then the natural push targets on D3 would be the Gera wagon.

Conversely if Scol does go through on D1 - there's no reason why Gera wouldn't be following him on D2 with the way he refused to vote for Scol.

I still don't really think scoli is scum tbh

I would be interested in anything you can give on Scol (when you feel recovered) given that he is the Most Popular Wagon.

[innocentvillager]

Toto is alive and geraint obviously flipped tonw

I'm another one questioning my read on IV. I'm still fine with that flip, and I have no problem with IV deciding to policy that, but the continued characterisation of that being an "obviously town" flip has me wondering. It was not obvious to me, at all, and that means either IV has a much, much better grasp of mafia that I do, or it's much more obvious when you have a pre-knowledge of gera's alignment, and that's bleeding in to these sort of posts.

It's not something that tanks the whole read for me, since Dunning–Kruger is a thing and it might be the case IV is just better at mafia...but I don't think I'm that bad at mafia, either.

I think iv is one of the towniesr players in the game rn and i really, really don't think scum take the stance of trying to flip their biggest townread on policy
It's just a wild stance to take and has a very high chance of blowing up in their faces and causing a lot of suspicion later down the line. Scum don't really take a position like rhat normally

(Also my prior tr on val is kinda evaporating)

I semi vibed with the “Val’s random scumread on me feels a bit stilted” but maybe it’s just because he thinks so radically differently from me so I’m willing to chalk the ping off aa a mere playstyle diff

[innocentvillager]

In other words, from what I know of scum!Herta, he tends to openwolf.

Anyone can explain how to read herta again and why he is town/scum here?

I can see town!herta thinking he is a lhf and and easy target to come for, so the skitter tunnel scum case makes sense from that pov. At the same time he is not contributing much to resolving the game which is scummy, but that seems to be his approach to the game as both town and mafia from the few games I could look into.

Also herta, if you are town, can you town up?

I don't really have a reliable way for reading Herta but he can be pretty obvscum as scum.

You just said he’s obvscum when scum but you don’t have a reliable way for reading him

What are you saying here..?

[innocentvillager]

I actually was shocked that the votes he's gathered hasn't got him kicking and screaming more

That was why I wanted to focus on Herta, just didn't want to be yelled at lol

Shocked in a "he's scum for not reacting to his wagon with a tantrum" way?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Scol

We’re not ending this day when some people are literally not even playing. My vote is still spiritually here.

@Datisi it’s Day 2 not Day 1

[innocentvillager]

Hello Firebringer

up2u

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Scol

[innocentvillager]

no opinion, what opinion should i have

I don't think scoliosis is particularly scummy but it would be a good flip because he's been in the thick of it the whole game. It would inform the alignments of some others.

Please elaborate on how it would inform the alignments of others

How much clarity do you gain on a Scol scumflip or townflip?

[innocentvillager]

Firebringer let me know if you think Scoli/Pooky are plausibly scum together. Or if theyre both scummy or what ur stance on them in general is

[innocentvillager]

I probably reach more as town tbf, you think its a scumtell?

[innocentvillager]

if anything I'd actually expect Scol's teammates to be on Scol's wagon because it

looks better

in post analysis? If we flip them both and Scol is S and Gera T then the natural push targets on D3 would be the Gera wagon.

Conversely if Scol does go through on D1 - there's no reason why Gera wouldn't be following him on D2 with the way he refused to vote for Scol.

I still don't really think scoli is scum tbh

I would be interested in anything you can give on Scol (when you feel recovered) given that he is the Most Popular Wagon.

I dont think he's flipping scum
He's too disconnected from the rest of the game and too many people want to flip him. Who are his partners even?

You and/or people just bussing him cuz hes not that defendable rn idk

Pooky also suggested unwnd might be a reasonable partner based on his wagon pushes (ive no strong opinion just summarizing)

[innocentvillager]

I dont really associate reaching with town at all

I reach more as town because I am more creative and bizarre in my thought processes, as scum I want to be more logical/make sense/have a sensible explanation ready for everything I do (or at least try/post in a similar tone to my towngame)

What is the scum agenda behind Val scumreading me? He doesnt genuinely think hes going to start a real wagon on me so why does he feel the need to reach to sus me?

[innocentvillager]

do you think Scoli’s recent behavior has been townie/not scummy

[innocentvillager]

Scol did the same thing yesterday when I started expressing suspicion on him. That’s two examples of seeing Scol’s read on someone change once he gets scumread (me at eod1, and now with KittyTacky). Looks a little bit sus to me.

Idk Pooky and Scol both feel kind of scummy today, Scol’s scumminess sort of started yesterday

I kinda doubt it’s SvS though? I mean maybe? But unlikely

I think I want to vote in these two slots today so I’m interested in how this fight develops.

Yeah I hate to break it to you (not really, I love it) but I'm expecting you to carry this game and I'm not intending on fighting it out with my scum reads. I feel like you've come close to solving this game two or three times now and I feel like I'm potentially throwing you off trail with my stinky "scumminess." I don't know what to say other than that it isn't me, I swear.

Why are you pandering to me instead of casing the others? Your mindset doesn’t really make sense.

It seems like you’ve literally “solved the game” but are just sitting back and going “lol pooks u scum and it’s not me I promise haha figure it out!” like what

I’m obviously conflicted on who’s scum and it seems like you’re not. Saying I’ve come close to “solving the game” feels like you know more than me. If you’re town I don’t know why in your right mind you would tell ME to be the one carrying. I’m just very concerned about the way you’re handling this day

No that’s not really what I’m saying

If he’s an overconfident Townie that’s fine, that by itself isn’t necessarily sus?

I’m saying that the way he handled it by lol catting Pooky and then pandering to me with those posts is not the mindset that I think an overconfident Townie takes

This feels like someone who is tired of playing scum and wants to lazily lolcat and have fun rather than actually try to fake a nuanced town process which I’m sure Scol is very capable of

Like why is he appealing to me to solve the game if he thinks he already has and refuses to “fight” his scumreads Kitty skitter and Pooky it just makes zero sense to me

As a recap here are some of my issues with scol

[innocentvillager]

Idk scol’s last post just felt very “agenda-y” and not really like real human thoughts trying to solve a game. It felt like I was listening to someone at a debate round

But I’m also play and think very differently from him so idk

It feels like some of us think gera was as good as dead and some of us thinking gera wasnt

Just an interpretation of events thing, sigh, I may have to reread

I wish it was a little less ambiguous I suppose and that the gamestate read could be more solid, because if we can only really agree on the time before geraint said he wouldnt claim as town!indicative for SCol, not sure im convinced rn

[innocentvillager]

ok is it just me or does scoli feel like scum who gave up

He just deflated lol. But scum deflated, not town deflated.

Can you elaborate on your Pooky townread? Do you have prior experience with Pooky?

[innocentvillager]

I dont really associate reaching with town at all

I reach more as town because I am more creative and bizarre in my thought processes, as scum I want to be more logical/make sense/have a sensible explanation ready for everything I do (or at least try/post in a similar tone to my towngame)

What is the scum agenda behind Val scumreading me? He doesnt genuinely think hes going to start a real wagon on me so why does he feel the need to reach to sus me?

Actually nvm Val is like me where he just posts whatever he thinks town!him would post unless its hurting his wincon

[innocentvillager]

But nevertheless yeah upon rethink it didnt really ring as scummy to me, prolly just NAI

I think to read players like me and Val you gotta look at the overall vibe not just the individual posts if that am makes sense

[innocentvillager]

To elaborate the way to read me is not “scum!innocentvillager probably wouldnt do this, so hes probably town”

Im decent at doing individual wifomy things in small bursts that town players thinking on level 1-2 wouldnt expect me to do but bad at like just faking playing the game in general

I would expect that for Val it might be similar - the idea is that as scum he sees something he thinks he might notice as town and just says jt given it doesnt hurt wincon

Idk if im making sense but it feels like it makes sense to me

[innocentvillager]

@herta
My vote was random. I believe your post was 21 after my initial entry.
..
I am not claiming anything.

Weekends I am around less often, so don't think just because I am motnposting it is deliberate..

This game BTW has don't nothing but reinforce my "I hate day 1" thinking. If you think I am bad this game, just wait till my next one when I can bring this one up as recent evidence.

I shall say again, I am not going to claim I have a role.

I love that people sit there and say I am dumb for my views....and I haven't even mentioned that I think town should not eliminate anyone day 1....

So youre saying the only relevant wagonomics stuffs happens before this point huh…

Also hope you are recovering from surgery well skit - good to have you back and helping us

[innocentvillager]

That is an interesting perspective.

It would be really nice if Scol came back and tried to play the game

[innocentvillager]

vote count 1.13

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-12-06 00:45:52).

yeet

Scoliosis [6]:

KittyTacky,

Toto

, Herta, Dannflor, Val89, unwnd

geraintm [3]:

Scoliosis, Freedom, PookyTheMagicalBear

Herta [2]:

geraintm, skitter30

not voting [2]:

Ydrasse, innocentvillager

mod notes

~ this is a mod note

So you think if Scol is scum it could be with Herta or Freedom? But you dont think Scol is scum so ger/Scol is TvT then why is Herta switching notable? Just trying to understand your main point

flavour

I think at this point it was p solidly leaning towards scoli, and it switched towards gera in the next page when toto switched and a bunch of people followed

And then gera sealed it when he refused to claim

Scum couldnt have instigated the switch as toto originated that. Freedom and herta followed, and i still think thay herta is scummy

[innocentvillager]

I would maybe be willing to vote for Pooky, you are convincing me a little on Scol but I definitely have to think about it and stew on it.

If thats the case, Really wish he would come back and share more of his “insight”

I don’t really see why he doesnt want to fight for his solve and case everyone if hes solved the game

[innocentvillager]

I dont like animals

[innocentvillager]

Idk Pooky just scares me I guess lel

Its a very vibe thing that im unconfident in he just gives me jitters when he posts. like the tauntyness maybe. Idk I need to verbalize it better I’ll do later im going to sleep nice chatting with u

[innocentvillager]

You have more exp with him than me what do you think? Maybe ive just seen him as scum too much and hes actually just completely and utterly unreadable

[innocentvillager]

Like somewhere at some point in my mind I was like “okay Scol v Pooky ain’t TvT id kill them both rn if i didnt think they weren’t SvS” and im not really sure why

[innocentvillager]

Im at that stage where im questioning everything

[innocentvillager]

skitter I kind of see what you’re saying ablut how scum doesnt play like this but idk maybe hes just tired of constantly playing scum?

I agree with freedom that i dont expect town to play like this either.

So at this point with the information we have is which is more unlikely?

Stubborn deflated town who’s too lazy and sees no path forward or deflated burnt out wolf?

[innocentvillager]

They exhibit the vibe i described above
I think scum would be trying more, and not checking out due to lack of patience or from getting annoyed

um do you even know who he is?

him not trying is very scum indicative.... town!him basically never shuts up

Who is he?

[innocentvillager]

ok is it just me or does scoli feel like scum who gave up

He just deflated lol. But scum deflated, not town deflated.

Can you elaborate on your Pooky townread? Do you have prior experience with Pooky?

bruh you've played with scum!me

scum!me looks nothing like this

How so?

[innocentvillager]

I thought a bunch of people thought it was Flavor Leaf so I went with that. I remember you saying it probably wasn't Flavor Leaf. I see some mannerisms that are him but I'm not sure, is like figuring out who's an alt of who just like some skill that everyone has but me ??

[innocentvillager]

ok is it just me or does scoli feel like scum who gave up

He just deflated lol. But scum deflated, not town deflated.

Can you elaborate on your Pooky townread? Do you have prior experience with Pooky?

bruh you've played with scum!me

scum!me looks nothing like this

How so?

.....

viewtopic.php?t=88280&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

are you really trying to convince me that the difference between your towngame and your scumgame is you meme through the entirety of your scumgames and not your towngames? what is the point of this?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Pooky

why is it that every time I talk to you I feel like I want to kill you

If you are town I'm worried it's just a playstyle thing but like it feels like you are trying to manipulate everyone in the palm of hands

[innocentvillager]

why am I so bad at grammar when I just spew my thoughts

[innocentvillager]

Idk I feel like for whatever reason you're scum this game and for some reason you decided to try

And if that's right I think your team has like at least one of your friends or something idk because why else would you randomly try so hard this game after a ton of scumflips

[innocentvillager]

why is it that every time I talk to you I feel like I want to kill you

I just reskimmed Pooky's iso, this is a bit of an exaggeration I must admit

I'll think about it more tomorrow

[innocentvillager]

ok is it just me or does scoli feel like scum who gave up

He just deflated lol. But scum deflated, not town deflated.

Can you elaborate on your Pooky townread? Do you have prior experience with Pooky?

1. I just think his playstyle is fundamentally townie, especially if Scol flips scum. Would scum bus in the D1 situation? I was basically the only one pushing Scol that hard until Pooky joined in. Would scum doom a teammate when he could just try to discredit me? I suppose if Scol is town, Pooky stonks aren't that high but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
2. Yeah, a game or two.

Kitty I asked originally you this and i wasnt like super convinced by this because it feels like you think Scol is scum so therefore Pooky is town

Which I kind of agree with but Scol being scum is a fairly big if?

[innocentvillager]

Maybe even 90%.

I appreciate the usage of realistic numbers, thank you

Some people will say dumb shit like 99% and i cant take them seriously

[innocentvillager]

are you really trying to convince me that the difference between your towngame and your scumgame is you meme through the entirety of your scumgames and not your towngames? what is the point of this?

I am explaining the difference between my scum!game and my town!game in a simple way for you to understand because I think if you understood what my alignment is, it would be easier for you to play the game.

this is known as "self-meta"

something which you should understand as you do it yourself.

Yes I understand what self meta is

I think the way you went about self meta’ing yourself seemed scummy because it was way way too simplistic and i dont think you believe it yourself

You first say somethjng like “bruh you have seen how scum!me plays this is totally diff” or something

I follow up and then you quote like that one game we played together a while ago

I just really dont think that you think the difference between your scumgame and towngame is you just meme through the entire game for all your scum games and so youre town here because youre trying. Your reference to that game being the reason that you think I should just think youre town here for playing differently than that game is super bizarre to me. I think its a misleading self meta and thats why it was scummy to me, apparently I did not make that part clear last night

[innocentvillager]

I just don't "feel" Pooky scum at all. I try to look at his actions from a scum perspective whether Scol is scum or town and it doesn't make much sense? I don't see it.

He pushed Scol because he wants to miselim a townie (if Scol town), why is that not from a possible scum perspective?

[innocentvillager]

Sorry for multiquotes mobile responding to multiple quotes super annoyjng

Not only that, his push seems uninformed.

Can you try to put into words why his push seems uninformed?

[innocentvillager]

Scol is scum = Scol wouldn't be under so much pressure if not for Pooky and could have lived-- I don't even think he would be so demoralized if he didn't have 2 people heavily pushing on him so I don't think it's a bus. Would have been easy to dismiss it as "KT tunneling as usual".

Scol is town = seems too aggressive to be a scum push on town imo. Scum is usually a bit more careful with pushing town. Recklessness is town.

I can't fully ignore Scol per se since so much of Pooky's content revolved around him, but his alignment doesn't matter here.

I think recklessness by itself isnt that exciting of a reason to me, scum can push recklessly too

[innocentvillager]

That is a somewhat reasonable explanation to me, thank you

It still feels slightly weird because it feels like you expected me to know that you are generally super meme as scum and generally not supermeme as town. Like i dont know how you think I could tell that from a single game with you especially with the reputation that precedes you

[innocentvillager]

Im on the “wait for a replacement” side but im a party pooper and take this game too seriously sometimes

[innocentvillager]

Pooky do you think if you were scum with your friends this game that would make you try harder or is that more of a dumb level 0 psychoanalysis of you

[innocentvillager]

I just don't "feel" Pooky scum at all. I try to look at his actions from a scum perspective whether Scol is scum or town and it doesn't make much sense? I don't see it.

He pushed Scol because he wants to miselim a townie (if Scol town), why is that not from a possible scum perspective?

Why not watch said townie self-destruct (and be destroyed) and pin all the blame on another townie (me)? Why risk yourself by interfering with a Kitty deathtunnel? Scol is weak enough that he won't need any additional help to die.

Sorry for multiquotes mobile responding to multiple quotes super annoyjng

Not only that, his push seems uninformed.

Can you try to put into words why his push seems uninformed?

Vibes. It just smells that way. I can't really explain it but I saw bussing and scum pushing townies in action and it's not quite the same wording.

Scol is scum = Scol wouldn't be under so much pressure if not for Pooky and could have lived-- I don't even think he would be so demoralized if he didn't have 2 people heavily pushing on him so I don't think it's a bus. Would have been easy to dismiss it as "KT tunneling as usual".

Scol is town = seems too aggressive to be a scum push on town imo. Scum is usually a bit more careful with pushing town. Recklessness is town.

I can't fully ignore Scol per se since so much of Pooky's content revolved around him, but his alignment doesn't matter here.

I think recklessness by itself isnt that exciting of a reason to me, scum can push recklessly too

They're less likely to ime.

Pooky originated the Scol push. He was fairly townread thanks to skitter until Pooky repped in and immediately rocked the boat. Then everyone followed him. I disagree with your version of events that he joined in on your deathtunnel

Vibes, ok, I can respect that, I will take it into consideration even if you cannot verbalize it. You seem to he one id the few people trying anyway

I think Pooky is a player who has a wide wide scumrange if he cares enough and could push Scol to rock the boat ar the beginning after sensing an opening. The question is does he actually want to care and effort - seems like that is overall a towntell for Pooky to do so.

[innocentvillager]

Seems like I am just misremembering then if both you and Kitty have the opposite impression of me

But regardless, I think Pooky’s push was the catalyst. If hes scum he used his bear sense to sniff out a viable push there and went for it.

[innocentvillager]

Why are we expecting a replacement?

Are people just making the assumption Sco won't respond to the prod?

Because they have like 3 hours or something to respond to the prod?

[innocentvillager]

If you are town I'm worried it's just a playstyle thing but like it feels like you are trying to manipulate everyone in the palm of hands

this isn't manipulative-pooky and this game is like the antithesis of him trying hard

He tried abnormally hard in the beginning I felt

Now hes kind of whatever i guess sure

Do you think his characterization of his own meta as just a pure memer (for the most part) when scum is reasonable

[innocentvillager]

skitter I kind of see what you’re saying ablut how scum doesnt play like this but idk maybe hes just tired of constantly playing scum?

I agree with freedom that i dont expect town to play like this either.

So at this point with the information we have is which is more unlikely?

Stubborn deflated town who’s too lazy and sees no path forward or deflated burnt out wolf?

i mean sure but he doesn't really seem like the type to just 'give up' when the going gets rough, based on the numerous fights he's picked over teh last two days

also, like, if he's scum ... why is the game dead? is he getting bussed? what are scum doing rn ?

He also doesnt seem like the type to give up when the going gets rough as town either but here we are I guess? I thjnk Toto might be right that his flake out is kinda NAI and we should just look at other things to evaluate Scol

I guess scum could be silently bussing him because hes not really townread by anyone and they view him as a lost cause maybe their last hope is one of us questions our sanity and flips on him. Hes gone

[innocentvillager]

replacing unwnd and Scoliosis.

2 minutes and 40 seconds late?? Smh Datisi

[innocentvillager]

utterly irresponsible mod

[innocentvillager]

Hi Math

Yeah also unwnd posted more recently than Scol so i wouldve thought that Scol gets priority. Whatevs, mod discretion lol I trust Daddisi’s judgment

[innocentvillager]

Hi Math

Yeah also unwnd posted more recently than Scol so i wouldve thought that Scol gets priority. Whatevs, mod discretion lol I trust Daddisi’s judgment

Hi.

I am sheeping you <3

Consider yourself a double voter.

You are

clearly

an innocent villager so I am just obeying the handle right?

Careful last time I sheeped you I was scum and was brutally murdered

[innocentvillager]

Math are you ok

[innocentvillager]

Either i dont feel like this is how you play mafia or it’s because Ive just never been uncertain of your alignment in a game

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Pooky e1? jfc *why*

[innocentvillager]

Im kind of shocked at how easy it was to start the Pooky wagon

[innocentvillager]

Leantown mostly just from how relaxed and freeflowing he is idk I really have never seen scum act like this and can think of a few instances where town has

Idk if there are any examples of him specifically entering like this as either alignment though

[innocentvillager]

hmmmm

Pooky if youre town I would like you to work with us if possible im sorry its frustrating for you that youre getting pushed randomly off of reasons that are BS to you

[innocentvillager]

I understand your past frustration with Math and hopefully we can have a productive discussion between all of us

[innocentvillager]

do you think Math is town? The way you worded that suggest that you think hes town throwing

[innocentvillager]

Have fun on your vacay if you’d rather not be here much because of that then that is obviously understandable

[innocentvillager]

Fwiw im really unsure of who I will vote between you and Scol if it comes down to you two atm

[innocentvillager]

The Pooky blitz made me feel iffy tbh

I dont see a ton of great reasons being thrown at Pooky its all just this general paranoia so im wondering if scum want to pull a fast one

[innocentvillager]

hmmmm

Pooky if youre town I would like you to work with us if possible im sorry its frustrating for you that youre getting pushed randomly off of reasons that are BS to you

ive already said who i think the scum are and the reasons why they are scum im not sure what else you want me to do here dude

nothing in particular rn

But if things play out over the next few days we could use your help to figure out this clusterfuck

[innocentvillager]

okay Pooky so its skitter + Scoli + person 3?

[innocentvillager]

I'm not really up for this whole back and forth fighting with you over basic facts and frankly I don't give a shit if you kill me cuz i have better things to do in life than argue with you

VOTE: Pooky

Fine by me if you wanna be giving up scum. I asked a simple question who is scum if I am town. You agreed I am town but yet don’t pitch any revised reads and have no desire to. I am a okay with you dying. I really want Skitter but I am okay killing you if you won’t show the least bit of effort of cooperating,

Math its been 6 minutes give him some time to reevaluate

[innocentvillager]

Pooky maybe you should take a break

I understand you are tilted rn at Math maybe its best if we come back to this tmr?

[innocentvillager]

How do you think scum!pooky would react at math?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: pooky

e-1

Still think herta is scummy here ^

UNVOTE:

Don’t want a scum quick hammer. But still there in spirit.

You're arguing that pooky is scum, why would thia be a bad thing from your pov?

Pedit i mean i'm always down to wagon herta

Skitter where are your reads at rn? Why are you still voting pooky if your top scumread seems interested in putting E1 Pooky than voting for Scol?

[innocentvillager]

like do you think Herta is theatering with scumbuddy there?

[innocentvillager]

I think hes just tilted rn

Fire can you skim the Pooky iso (very briefly the tone is pretty consistent throughout) that Math just linked and see how you feel about his play there compared to just now?

[innocentvillager]

I am not voting for Pooky right now and i dont know if I will revote him

[innocentvillager]

“3 conf town all wrong same time is pretty rare.”

wat

[innocentvillager]

Ive never seen scum!Math before but admittedly this is exactly how id expect him to act as town

[innocentvillager]

Yeah math sorry buddy im a little lost in your arguments

[innocentvillager]

Pooky instead of talking to Math can you tell us who you think scum three is?

[innocentvillager]

No im sorry Math your arguments dont make sense

[innocentvillager]

skitter is this a tilt vote or do you actually think hes scum

Be honest

[innocentvillager]

im evil scummy scum

[innocentvillager]

and i will point out, again, that i've been saying there's scum in {you/pooky} for like over a thousand posts at this point, none of tis is a new conclusion

I know youve been saying this can you remind me of why specifically

[innocentvillager]

math saying nonsense is like literally every town math game ever

Is he logical as scum/less nonsense? Ive only seen town math I have no comparison point.

[innocentvillager]

Half of game replacements. Heh.

Hello Enchant

It’s not as bad as it looks

4 of those replacements didn’t play to begin with because this was in the queue for a while I thjnk

And Church is Ydrasse’s alt

So not as bad as it looks

[innocentvillager]

Math why did you claim again?

[innocentvillager]

I don’t think it was necessary for math to claim

Did you guys push him into claiming?

[innocentvillager]

I understand I have acted towny this game however I clearly have no idea who scum are at any point in this game so town must be really fucking lost this game if I was shot

[innocentvillager]

Math why did you claim again?

To put Skitter and their bad response.

I was originally just crumbing and memeing so it would be rememberable after I died.

But I couldn’t explain Skitter’s bad reaction without hard claiming.

I don’t understand cna you elabore

[innocentvillager]

Can you explain how we went from skitter ???? => let’s claim cuz skitter?

[innocentvillager]

I just don’t underatand

[innocentvillager]

i think math is obviously telling the truth I just wish he didn’t

[innocentvillager]

Can you explain how we went from skitter ???? => let’s claim cuz skitter?

It’s because Skitter immediately went to sussing my slot after I started meme joking Doctor.

It was immediate defense mode.

She then kept pushing and pushing in a destructive manner.

Even now she’s doing it to deny the fact three conf towns exist.

She’s desperate.

Now combine this with what I knew on replace in.

3 conf towns (myself Toto and IV) all moved off Enchant and onto Pooky.

Therefore Pooky is the more likely scum and scum dog piled on Enchant to have somewhere to go. Otherwise they’d be on Pooky

Still makes zero sense why does this mean skitter is scum?

[innocentvillager]

Everyone is confused

[innocentvillager]

Math it seems like you felt like you claiming what you did => skitter scum and you expected everyone to just go “ohh that makes sense” but literally my read on skitter doesn’t change whatsoever??

[innocentvillager]

Skitter, he’s town

Even if it’s not mechanically confirmed no scum plays like this

No one does this as scum

[innocentvillager]

I'm a macho, so there being a doctor makes sense.

Either scum did not nk, or someone prevented scum from nk, and if they did I was not the target.

If there is no CC he is a doctor. Because otherwise I would not be macho.

This. This is why Skitter is scum to me

Even if she thinks I am scum who with?

Me claiming nets 3 conf town.

Now scum have a pool of 9 of which all scum must reside. Claiming here is correct

I was literally universally TR’d and never getting killed
Toto is Already clear
You were in zero danger of dying and mostly townread and could’ve claimed at any point

[innocentvillager]

I think claiming was an extremely unnecessary move but whatever

I disagree that only skitter as scum tries to cast doubt on your claim. I don’t know why she necessarily should do that as scum.

[innocentvillager]

Sometimes if you tilt people enough with logic they perceive to be bad they direct their tilt at believing you are scum to keep themselves sane

It’s quite common

[innocentvillager]

I was literally never getting slimmed

Zero people voted you other than skitter and even she admitted it was partly tilt

[innocentvillager]

Skitter can we just accept math is town and move on? What do you think of the game now?

I have no idea what your alignment is tbh but math did not help me sort you

[innocentvillager]

i still don't believe the leadup to the scol votes on p19 was a tvt interaction
VOTE: pooky

I read that interaction again and like, I can kinda of see how it looks like one of them is pocketing the other/trying to get them to vote Scol in an agenda-y way

But at the same time like, it’s not clear to me why they can’t both be town? Now that we’re pretty sure unwnd was town, why can’t Pooky just be town there trying to convince someone else to get on his wagon?

Your previous issue iirc seemed to be that unwnd voted for Scol “too easily” but now we think he’s town

[innocentvillager]

skitter is there anything you thjnk you’ve done this game that should make us think you’re town here/that you’re not capable of as scum?

[innocentvillager]

I don’t have any strong feelings about this flip

If I had a great alternative I would push for that but I simply do not

[innocentvillager]

skitter agreeing with me on like gamestate esque things gives me some doubt here but I’m still not sure if it’s enough to make me think he’s straight up town

Enchant feels fairly unreadable, I feel like he just memes this way as either scum or town?

[innocentvillager]

I don’t agree with that reason either

Herta can you give us some more of your notes from a while ago?

[innocentvillager]

Kitty has been obvtown the entire game. That enchant hasn't read anything isn't anything you or anyone else can be expected to know.

And if you look at the specific post from enchant he says there's a pattern of adding nothing to the conversation by kitty and that kitty is giving the impression that he's doing something. For someone who hasn't read the game or at least kitty's iso, that's a fairly disingenuous thing to say. It's a bald accusation with really no basis in fact. This past Day or so I haven't really thought Scoiosis or enchant were particularly scummy, but that post is a damn scummy post. Why make that claim if you don't know what kitty has been doing the game? Near as I can tell it's only to discredit kitty in an effort to distract from something.

Enchant can you respond to this please? You don’t have to read the entire game, I think that’s an unreasonable request for a replacement in general. Just keeping up with the present is good enough

[innocentvillager]

there's nothing townie in enchant's entire iso and skitter handwaving it to vote me with her #1 scumread is pretty lulzscum

Enchant seems oddly resigned for a rep into a slot that's constantly under fire. I'd think town would put in more effort.

Kitty is scum,

i recognize this pattern of

providing nothing of value by attacking already doomed slot to give impression he does something.

let me be a little more specific - can you elaborate on what you mean by this? (The bolder in particular but the whole thing in general too)

[innocentvillager]

there's nothing townie in enchant's entire iso and skitter handwaving it to vote me with her #1 scumread is pretty lulzscum

do you think enchant is actively scummy? It’s not clear to me on how to read Enchant. AFAIK he is the guy who replaces a lot (thanks for your service) and memes/is random aggressive as either alignment

[innocentvillager]

how’s my avatar enchant

[innocentvillager]

Kitty has been obvtown the entire game. That enchant hasn't read anything isn't anything you or anyone else can be expected to know.

And if you look at the specific post from enchant he says there's a pattern of adding nothing to the conversation by kitty and that kitty is giving the impression that he's doing something. For someone who hasn't read the game or at least kitty's iso, that's a fairly disingenuous thing to say. It's a bald accusation with really no basis in fact. This past Day or so I haven't really thought Scoiosis or enchant were particularly scummy, but that post is a damn scummy post. Why make that claim if you don't know what kitty has been doing the game? Near as I can tell it's only to discredit kitty in an effort to distract from something.

Herta that should be an adequate response to this right?

You misinterpreted Enchant saying pattern as referring to “pattern throughout this game”. What he actually meant (and what I suspected he meant) was a he has seen a pattern of past Kitty games and is saying that his recent posts fit that pattern.

Can you reevaluate enchant with that in mind?

[innocentvillager]

how’s my avatar enchant

not bad but i don't understand why you put food on the avatar

:O animals are not food!

[innocentvillager]

how’s my avatar enchant

not bad but i don't understand why you put food on the avatar

imagine how Pooky and skitter feel :/

You can't read me because i am master of deception

Are you the kind of unreadable player who tanks their town game on purpose to be less polarized or rise to the occasion as scum

[innocentvillager]

Well, I can only advise you make "eventually" sooner rather than later; who knows how long any of us have left?

I also think that Herta needs to take a stance on where they want to be re: Sco and Pooky.

I wanted to wagon Herta earlier with your predecessor because I don't really have a good read there, and I thought I might have some shot of getting a read if we could force them to play, and that would also help me get a handle on Skitter. (Herta and Skitter look pretty unaligned where I'm standing). It unfortunately didn't happen, but Ydrasse has convinced me that skitter can wait a phase.

pedit: OK, that'll do it.

I think pooky is more likely scum than scoliosis at this point. Pooky's back and forth between scoliosis and gerantim was not good because I don't think pooky would kill bc of policy over an actual scum read. It seems convenient? Scoliosis is less scummy today but I do think their flip would be informative. And pooky's would too. I just think pooky's scummier than scoliosis.

Also this:

Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.

This was your last recorded stance before that random Enchant post that (I think incorrectly) swayed you

[innocentvillager]

Unless something crazy changes I don’t think it’s practical to do anyone other than enchant or Pooky anymore, there’s simply not enough time. Both have claimed Vt

Enchant seems more likely to go through atm so he’s more practical question is just do we want to flash back to Pooky.

So the question is do I care enough to want to kill Pooky instead of let Enchant die?

I’ll think about it

[innocentvillager]

Meh.

I'm getting cold feet.

UNVOTE:

IV can you make up your mind on what to do with Enchant. While I don't agree with everything Math said, building a town murderblock sounds like a good idea.

Why are you getting cold feet exactly?

[innocentvillager]

Herta’s vote onto Enchant seems pretty bizarre ngl so I’m waiting for his explanation as well but I promise I’ll think at least a little in the meantime

[innocentvillager]

Meh.

I'm getting cold feet.

UNVOTE:

IV can you make up your mind on what to do with Enchant. While I don't agree with everything Math said, building a town murderblock sounds like a good idea.

Why are you getting cold feet exactly?

Enchant tried a little bit, but also something I didn't like about Skitter's inevitability post.

Val's post also feels a bit stilted. Trying to justify his hammer too much.

Does scum!Enchant not try at all? You TRing his effort here?

is it because skitter’s not trying harder to kill Pooky over Enchant for example? @skitter why do you think it’s inevitable we kill Enchant/why didn’t you try to rally the troops for Pooky who is totally a viable wagon?

Val to me just feels stilted in general so I think it might be a playstyle thing? Do you think this is something other than just his playstyle?

[innocentvillager]

If I’m being honest skitter feels kind of blah to me this game overall even after she came back from surgery but i keep getting these little niggling moments of Townieness from her that are making me question stuff about her but maybe because I have unreasonably high expectations for her townplay

The fact that skitter is not overexplainy this game might be a towntell tho tbh

And I think in general skitter gets sussed a lot as either alignment so she’s not really the obvtown kind of player anyway

I don’t feel like particularly inclined to kill skitter today, I’m fine revisiting her and I think she will give good content as the game continues.

[innocentvillager]

Herta’s vote onto Enchant seems pretty bizarre

???

Herta if you didn’t see I asked you a question (if ur already responding ignore this)

[innocentvillager]

Her insistence about there being scum between Pooky and unwnd with little to zero reasoning seems like it would be out of character for scum!skitter, for example

[innocentvillager]

And the way she reacted after the exchange happened showed some semblance of a reasonable progression towards getting to that conclusion without it looking good or fabricated to explicitly show her progression

[innocentvillager]

Idt that is a convincing explanation to many people and if I was more confident she’s not just being lazy then I would be defending her harder

[innocentvillager]

Yeah you didn’t vote him sorry I should be more specific

You were clearly gearing up to vote for him is what I mean

So what do you think now? Are you gonna switch to Enchant or do you want Pooky to die more?

[innocentvillager]

Part of me wants to lolbrutally murder Herta I feel like that would be irresponsible

[innocentvillager]

Irresponsible because I don’t even scumread much if at all and have close to zero reasonimg

[innocentvillager]

I’m gonna be honest in that I’m like only 90% sure Kitty is town

[innocentvillager]

Pooky or Enchant…. What to do, what to do….

Or maybe last minute lfashwagon on Herta but probs not

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Toto

Dis is da wey

[innocentvillager]

Yeah you didn’t vote him sorry I should be more specific

You were clearly gearing up to vote for him is what I mean

So what do you think now? Are you gonna switch to Enchant or do you want Pooky to die more?

I've been voting for pooly for a while, not sure what you mean by the first half

And i'm not going to vote someone i think is flipping town, unless the alternative is literally me

I don’t know how you thought this was directed at you but it was at Herta

[innocentvillager]

Reminder that herta trajectory here is p awful
(And if anything thinks *that's* viable lmk)

You should go through that trajectory. I'm curious as to what my agenda is here.

Why are u voting enchant exactly

He isn’t (I need to clarify this before he gets mad again)

But i really thjnk he should explain his stance on Pooky vs Enchant rn bc it is not very clear at all atm

[innocentvillager]

Pooks did you ever tell us who you think scum 3 is

[innocentvillager]

Reminder that herta trajectory here is p awful
(And if anything thinks *that's* viable lmk)

You should go through that trajectory. I'm curious as to what my agenda is here.

r you gonna do this skit?

[innocentvillager]

Also what do you think of Enchant skitter

Not Scol but enchant

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Enchant

I’m going to bed

Gnite

I’ll probs be up before deadline but wanted this out there in case cuz no elim is just awfu

[innocentvillager]

It was close between Wnchant and Pooky but I think we need to resolve this slot asap

[innocentvillager]

i just don’t have the confidence that skitter has that Scol was town

I’m gonna be honest I have literally zero confidence this flips scum

[innocentvillager]

Think freedom might need to be looked at later too. Not sure.

[innocentvillager]

I have a bad feeling I picked wrong and Pooky actually is scum

[innocentvillager]

Everyone who has been run up this game is okay with dying like fucking why

Geraint
Enchant/Scol
Pooky

all claimed vt too

[innocentvillager]

Datisi please wake up in the middle of the night we need the flip

[innocentvillager]

very cool

[innocentvillager]

Why skit

[innocentvillager]

you think she was just whiteknighting scol?

I'm more leaning Pooky today personally

[innocentvillager]

woaw

[innocentvillager]

lol

[innocentvillager]

down for pooky or herta yea

[innocentvillager]

All three scum on enchants wagon? If not at least one in skitter/herta

Told you Enchant was town.

I am MathBlade though so my wordy words no work good.

I didn’t realized you believed this so strongly..? I mgihtve listened had I seen good arguments from you about it, I really was unsure on Wnchant.

[innocentvillager]

I think we just always kill Pooky here idk I don’t really feel like putting a crazy Amt of effort into today
I’m definitely willing to people some time though to just process everything and reevaluate teams and maybe for a last readslist from pooks or something.

[innocentvillager]

What i. The fuck

[innocentvillager]

who be lion

[innocentvillager]

Are we gonna see like 5 people die tomorrow because mafia are planning on chaining nightkills

I assume that isn’t possible in a normal game but Datisi did say it was complex…?

[innocentvillager]

Maybe even 90%.

Kitty why did you think he was town again so strongly and why did you flip on him to hammer?

I have to admit this is when I started reconsidering my bloodlust a little on Pooky

[innocentvillager]

I think Val could be scum but skitter doesn’t rly feel like scum to me? Idk I guess I could be wrong

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Val gut lol idk

[innocentvillager]

Hahaha

Idk Herta doesn’t rly give me super scummy scum vibes for some reason more like scummy town? Idk

[innocentvillager]

Too much mech and slightly busy will catchup l8r

[innocentvillager]

We also need IV and KT to claim.

I am a vanilla townie

[innocentvillager]

just want to say before I dive in - consider *everything*.

Now that we know For sure Pooky was on the scumteam he is known to be capable of pulling off bizarre scum gambits.

There was a game where he and Ydrasse were scum together (some Mizzy Normal game) where Pooky orchestrated some weird no kill on night one and somehow cleared scum Ydrasse to endgame. maybe Ydrasse can shed more light on that game because I wasn’t really in it but just be aware that this is a possibility. scum are desperate and *may* go for a risky gambit due to their inability to kill for 4 nights. Please keep this in mind

[innocentvillager]

of course we should prioritize the most likely abc options first. But don’t totally discount the wacko gambits

[innocentvillager]

IC is lying to us

[innocentvillager]

Datisi can you clarify the thing in thread?

[innocentvillager]

I still haven’t caught up with any mech discussions (idk if anyone wants to tldr for me but nw I’ll catch up later) but gth scum is somewhere in ydr/fire/val/like maybe Herta

[innocentvillager]

I would not be opposed to killing Ydrasse

[innocentvillager]

skitter just doesn’t rly feel like scum to me

Ydr doesn’t rly give me towny vibe I guess :/

[innocentvillager]

I can substantiate a lil more later when I get a more serious chance to catch up I guess

[innocentvillager]

Idk i kinda think you just wanted to vibe this game with scum pooks and repeat your mizzt normal performance

Like I think yall planned your mech gambit from the start and did some funky no kills to confuse us

[innocentvillager]

Your claim of being self resolving was like no bueno like why would you need to do that if u were town you just delayed your death by a few days for free

[innocentvillager]

do u do that even as town?

are you allowed to discuss ur modifiers - why do you only have a n3 result

[innocentvillager]

Sorry do you do that even as vt/non important PR

like ur role seems fairly important why would you risk scum killing you off?

[innocentvillager]

has ur playstyle changed a lot over the past year or two? i remember you being fairly energetic and obvtown when town. My initial impression of your scumplay was very bland but i thought you grew the ability to blend and dodge and weave a little more over time even pulling off the occasional AtE gambit. Your play this game sorta feels like a reversion to ur 2020 esque scumplay where u felt very muddy but now u vibe with more people in thread so u get to vibe a little more now and be less stilted. idk if that makes any sense but it’s where my at with u rn is

[innocentvillager]

ehhh I kinda don’t think freedom is scum by vibes either

But again I haven’t seriously reread yet

[innocentvillager]

Freedom is kind of a hero shot. He has no interactions with anyone really at least none that mean anything I don't think. So his flip is wasted if green bc no associations. I don't it but I'd rather someone who gives us an idea of rest of team.

@skitter this is the sort of comment I don’t really see coming from scum. Idk I don’t feel like scum talk about slots in this way.