House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Firebringer]

UNVOTE:
Give eirlaox chance to our Allie’s perhaps.
Let’s see what he produces

[Firebringer]

LLD probably didn't read ur posts in there.
SHe has yet to post in the dissenter pt.

[Firebringer]

so when Titus says we need to kill Dats to prove he isn't scum fake claiming innos.
That was her scum plan of outting her teammate by getting town to flip her teammate and put doubt on herself.
Yeah. If that is scummy by Titus. That is a new one.

[Firebringer]

Are we going to lose both Eiralox and GL.
Why is everyone so demotivated in this game?
I feel like we have a good solve going.

[Firebringer]

titus i recommend the following people for ur kingsguard
GL, Enchant, LLD
but do w/e u want.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Eiralox

why did ur mood change now to hammer

[Firebringer]

Well looks like hte plan worked.
Good work everyone

[Firebringer]

obviously u

[Firebringer]

Thats not what the result says

[Firebringer]

Btw theres no scum in the council hood. Everyone in the council knew where the protection was going. It was planned out.
Unless one of yall wants to be crazy and call this scum WIFOM of going no kill when they down 2 players.

[Firebringer]

i wanted to talk to u so much end of day GL about ur scumread.
I don't think ur developing well there and wondering why ur so focused on one specific spot in the game and not looking bigger picture.

[Firebringer]

i honestly think ive been super townie here and find that people just arguing im so townie in council pt kind of annoying? its almost like they just want me mech cleared which i dont want

[Firebringer]

i mean i voted junko we know is town for king.
Even though u can excuse that is lol doing w/e because at time only wanted the council position she promised.

I was voting dwlee unless u think that looks like a buss.
I was scumreading dann and would have been on wagon yesterday. U think that was bussing too?

Ur primary focus was me sheeping luke on u. I think i explained what i was doing there pretty much so w/e doubts u have are like...idk what even they are that makes u still hyper focused there

[Firebringer]

i wouldn't argue with LLD right now.
We about to get results soon from dats.
And i am expecting red check on LLD.

Dats better not let me down on checking LLD

[Firebringer]

instrumental in getting them limmed.

hurtful

[Firebringer]

shouldn't u be challenging him to a duel if ur so certain LLD

[Firebringer]

idk my theory is unowen is town because both LLD and Dann heavy pushed him as town and i don't think they would do that to an actual buddy right now.

[Firebringer]

I’ll hold off on the challenge for now until I get Dat’s Cop Check, but I have intent to challenge Firebringer.

i have no interest in accepting ur challenge

[Firebringer]

u already killed one townie. I think thats enough for u this game drapion

[Firebringer]

i dont remember u challenging me

[Firebringer]

I have served in the masters of whispers role the longest by in game day time.
I consider this the ultimate achievement of this game.

[Firebringer]

This is the most damning evidence of me being scum there has ever been.

[Firebringer]

lady lambdadelta is town

Tragic

[Firebringer]

mind boggled town LLD doesn't see a scum motivated shit push on her from dann.
Alright. I don't know what to do now.
VOTE: Furtive
Here we go. Lets go for person who shit pushed me.

[Firebringer]

back to thinking Unowen could be scum since my LLD/Dann pushing a shit town read on Unowen is now a dead theory.

[Firebringer]

if we can get the PoE to force challenge each other, think that is best for this game. Yeah, what fireisred is saying

[Firebringer]

drapion ur reads are trash.
Challenge furtive or im considering ur scum if furtive flips scum.

[Firebringer]

You’re probably a wolf, my reads are fan fucking tastic.

I repeat this several times.
You killed a town yesterday.
Shut up and challenge Furtive.

[Firebringer]

You killed a town yesterday.
Challenge Furtive.

[Firebringer]

ur the one who said they want to have ability or dead.
Challenge furtive. If furtive flips town ill accept ur challenge.

[Firebringer]

U dont have a point.

[Firebringer]

why r u asking a person who self describes themselves as not being able to read me for thoughts. She has told u this multiple times.

stop relying on mastina for this. U just accused her of her to blame for ur shit read yesterday.
Challenge Furtive.

[Firebringer]

mind boggled town LLD doesn't see a scum motivated shit push on her from dann.
Alright. I don't know what to do now.
VOTE: Furtive
Here we go. Lets go for person who shit pushed me.

What, sorry, are you telling me because I didn't vote/hammer the person who was obviously dying you thought I opposed the death? I have my own preference, of course, which is still my preference.

i was talking about day 2. Not day 3. Think ur mixing up days

[Firebringer]

apparently im mixing up days too.
dann pushed you on day 3... we limmed dann slot day 4 yesterday.

[Firebringer]

I will shut up about u killing VPB if you challenge furtive.

[Firebringer]

u realize ur townread of furtive has no basis either right
pedit no ty. Will you please challenge furtive.

[Firebringer]

LLD those posts coming from u do not look like a hard push against dann for being scum. THey look hedging and just pushing against bad reasoning. I am not saying you townread dann. I am saying you didn't hard scumread and then death tunnel him for a shit push. Which is what i expected to happen if u were town. Apparently i am wrong.

[Firebringer]

Drapion, challenge furtive.

[Firebringer]

After VP flipped Green by PoE of my reads I have stated it’s obvious I push Dann.

except

you never said anything about dannflor

so who all were your townreads to make him scum by poe?

god why did i do all this research in drapion iso.
Okay so Drapion never said dann was scum...sort of.
The only scum mention was him saying that scum don't want the dann wagon.
He did say if VPB and GL are both town then dann is scum. NEver explained hwy that is or i dont care to look into it. He then flipped to "well actually they could all be scum together". He then said that dannflor johnny posts were bad in post 4034 this is the most substantive thing i have found to scum dan.

After VPB flipped he goes Maybe Dann is a wolf. He also accused me of trying to save dann...which i argued at the time was silly.
He calls 4398 a "town list" even though he says 'but dann is a wolf'. Okay so far all ive seen is one post quote reasoning of why drapion is adamant it was dannflor. Could this be fake? Probably. Do i care to analyze anymore. No.

[Firebringer]

i think if i were to look at game time and just analyze who was scumread when and looked at drapion.
He most likely didn't even mention scumreading dann once until Day 4. I could be wrong on this. But my gut tells me no because the first instance I found of him pushing idea of dann scum was in relation to VPB/GL and later actually makes substance of saying Dann push on Johnny was bad (which happened after Day 3 - and these posts weren't that far apart from his initial DANN IS SCM IF THESE 2 ARE TOWN) initial scum possibility came from.

[Firebringer]

Drapion progression in PT on LLD
Monday Nov 22 - put LLD in the null pile #137
Monday Nov 28 - says he wants to elim in the LLD/UNO #347

This is all the references i see to LLD
i think he also said at some point in relation to us pointing out lld not using thread that not using PT was scummy but i could be misremembering that for someone else but it sounds like a drapion post

[Firebringer]

@people who are in the dissenter(?) pt - is this true?

i mean its a repeat of what he said here. there isnt anything new added to him saying it in PT.
repeat the point:
VPB/GL scum but if town then Dann scum.

And its like one post.

[Firebringer]

the fact scum want me dead might be a clue to why

[Firebringer]

ill let mastina dorp all the details on night actions.
she seemed like she wanted the honors in council chat

[Firebringer]

ill let mastina dorp all the details on night actions.
she seemed like she wanted the honors in council chat

Yeah please do, if we have a town clear courtesy of doc that would be really useful

isnt ur theory theres scum on council.
i.e like myself.
how does the night actions help u get a clear.
I knew the actions.

[Firebringer]

ill let mastina dorp all the details on night actions.
she seemed like she wanted the honors in council chat

Yeah please do, if we have a town clear courtesy of doc that would be really useful

isnt ur theory theres scum on council.
i.e like myself.
how does the night actions help u get a clear.
I knew the actions.

Information is information.

that doesn't answer how it whatever result becomes a clear when u think theres a plant in the council who would know what actions exist and thus can work around them pretty easily.

[Firebringer]

what if i call u a big stupid doody head.
will that change ur mind GL?

[Firebringer]

idk i think drapion more likely to flip town here and we all have egg on our faces than furtive. Like much higher.
Drapion doesn't make sense, but theres a weird consistency to them. I mean he jumped left and right so fast ur like 'idgi how this developed at all', but theres some consistency in what he says that if i squint hard enough. Almost seems like true development of reads. I have to squint very hard tho.

[Firebringer]

because im scum duh.

[Firebringer]

the whole framing of "Dann scum if GL/VPB town" doesn't really feel like a totally organic thought process either, like why do the three of us have that relationship

this and how his mind flipped to me having to be scum. Maybe i sort of see Unowen/FB has to have one scum but he been just throwing me in scum pools and i have no idea how he gets this. It just seems like an aggro read to me in that ive been rude to him so he scumreads me. Like he even said one of my wolf tells is me being a douche or something like that.

like Okay....

[Firebringer]

Why does scum kill tracker three nights in a row

[Firebringer]

Why does scum kill tracker three nights in a row

Like I've said before, tracker is the only role that can actually catch a scum on the council

Okay well I had tracker lol

[Firebringer]

I don’t see why we have to clear dats now.
What is the urgency now?
U realize cop power has to go to fireisred ur scumread with all rest of us having two powers LLD
We throw away cop power this second

[Firebringer]

And u don’t even scumread dats
I repeat my point yesterday.
Elim dats is dumb until I see the best scum case possible

[Firebringer]

I don’t see why we have to clear dats now.
What is the urgency now?
U realize cop power has to go to fireisred ur scumread with all rest of us having two powers LLD
We throw away cop power this second

Why does it have to go to them and not a green if your certain Dat is town?
Lmao.

powers have to be assigned. everyone in the council has 2 powers except fireisred. the power would auto go to him.
Which to me isn't worst thing since i townread fireisred, but LLD here is just gonna shout for fireisred death tomorrow anyways.

[Firebringer]

LLD cop makes more sense then fireisred lmao.

i dont know how many times we have to repeat that powers can only be assigned to other council members for u to get it.

[Firebringer]

Then why did Titus get KingGuard Leader Role thing?

Your logic doesn’t make sense.

Because inheritance of kingsguard is the exception to the rule. Go read the rules pages.

[Firebringer]

I also am not sure if Drapion is faking a dumbtell here

He may be town after all

dumbtells mean nothing.
ive faked them before to get townread.
ive had genuine dumbtells as scum be looked at as towntells.
Don't read into stupidity as a tell is the lesson

[Firebringer]

am i high or doesn't titus have two roles.

[Firebringer]

i am high. so it goes to titus which isn't bad i guess to LLD. I don't know what LLD read on Titus is independently tho

[Firebringer]

You want to give Dats 1 more day, 1 more investigation? that's the most I'm willing to give.

Because Datisi HAS to be cleared to confirm their results. It must happen and it cannot afford to occur JUST at ELO

i mean id rather not voteo ut dats at all.
but i will stop pushing back on this tomorrow. I probably won't vote dats if it comes to me being a deciding vote but ill stop shouting against it if we can at least ease the paranoia today.

[Firebringer]

is furtive town to u

[Firebringer]

i dont see how theres a connection there.

[Firebringer]

Okay i see. That makes sense.
Not gonna vote there but ur pov makes sense.

I did say in council chat as crazy theory talk if dats played the game to get mastina as prince with fake clear and then had somehow organized the kingsguard to kill Shea i would nom him for a scummy for brilliant scum play.

[Firebringer]

My hero solve is FB/Datisi/Mastina

Quote this post-game my friends

did u notice i never did my early game hero solve this game.
Should have done it. I kept going back yesterday being like "didn't i do this?" and didn't have one. I am very disappointed in day 1 firebringer

[Firebringer]

even in a dats scum world. The only scummy thing ive found about mastina is she townreads me.
That is just bizarre.

[Firebringer]

i do actually find furtive's recent posts to be somewhat towny tbh

Council Strong Together, Fire

[Firebringer]

u know what im going to be most upset about if dats flips scum and then we find out he lied about how much ability costs and been embezzling from the royal treasury with all these fake receipts. Truly the most heinous crime.

[Firebringer]

i think fireisredsir was actually shot not me.
to be clear on actions:
fireisred jailkept me
mastina healed fireisred.

dats/mastina/titus were unprotected

[Firebringer]

even in a dats scum world. The only scummy thing ive found about mastina is she townreads me.
That is just bizarre.

Sorry, and I do mean no offense by this, but your opinion need not apply in this circumstance. You're so locked in on the secret circle of the council that ANY opinion you hold will favour them.

You could be scum or just town who is completely fooled. You said it yourself, that you would rather lose without changing your mind than win.

I'm not like that, I want to take the guarantee. Datisi must die for information.

i mean...i townread her before she even was checked or was on the council....but okay.

[Firebringer]

The whole council was saying dats wasn't going to be killed because the lot of you were pushing for a mislim on him and dats agreed with that.
Theres no reason for scum to kill dats when u all do it for them, that is why we decided no protection for dats. If scum wanted to clear up paranoia on dats that was okay in our books

[Firebringer]

Wait who was pushing or going to push to miselim Datisi

There was like barely any discussion of this before today

Ummm did you read LLD posts yesterday and a few people agreeing with it. I think Titus was saying this well before too.

[Firebringer]

i don't think scum go for intentional gambits for no killing. Thats something i would do. Not how most scum players play.
Anyone speculating on that is literally paranoing over nothing.

Unless u think im scum. Cause i def would do a no kill gambit as scum for lolz.

[Firebringer]

Information is information.

Yes, which is why the council is all town--the council had the information of where the protections were headed.
There was no kill last night.

So either the scum deliberately didn't make a kill in spite of that directly giving the town more info (giving them an extra mislim and giving Datisi another check)...

...Or the scum didn't have the info of where the protections were headed.

One of those seems far simpler to me!

GL theory is its u/me/dats

[Firebringer]

Who are the 4 other crazy mofos

[Firebringer]

are we able to guarantee that we can protect the cop if necessary forever? i don't think we can guarantee that

as long as my income doesn't go down. we could

[Firebringer]

Who are the 4 other crazy mofos

The 5 are:

Shea
Me
Mastina
Titus
You

and before you say you would never do that, come on now.

i was saying me before this post that u missed.
i dont think mastina or titus would.
maybe u or shea

[Firebringer]

are we able to guarantee that we can protect the cop if necessary forever? i don't think we can guarantee that

as long as my income doesn't go down. we could

funding yes but like if we lim dats and cops shoot the doctor then we're running really tight on slots

dont we just need to confirm if jailkeep can guard the doc. seems like that might be broken thing that could work. We talked about getting confirm about this last night

[Firebringer]

i dont know if we ever confirmed if no one is available to take a slot then a new person can join.
my impression was that scum were literally killing the council to eventually eliminate the roles entirely. but that was just theory.
i thought only way new people join is prince/kingsguard or if a new king selects a new council entirely

[Firebringer]

i mean killing a good town asset is always a downside.
This is why i argued against titus suggestion when she just said to not check u and just limming u.

[Firebringer]

@LLD i dont get ur response.
Titus said u weren't worth a check because u were being detrimental to the town. I said that isn't a good reason to lim a Town!LLD. My point is limming a person because they could be scum when they are very good player and or you don't actually scumread them. Is in my opinion just paranoia based play that i don't think is good. But we disagree here so theres no point in me arguing this anymore.

I would rather see pushes on dats that has a read on them.
I see ur arguments of why mechanically its good. But im like not a "lets play 100% optimally to the mechanics so break this game" kind of person. Maybe this means im terrible and need to get good. I find this gamesmanshiping unfun. I have strong feeling on town dats. But w/e.

Done arguing. I have a deadline for work so im going to get back to it.

[Firebringer]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

GL im telling u. My whole scum plan this game was to continually kill the tracker until i got it.
Now I got it. I have achieved win condition. GG no re

[Firebringer]

town!Mastina is insanely dangerous to scum

have u seen mastina pushes this game

[Firebringer]

mastina r u literally saying every vote on dats is scum.
because ummm u know LLD was checked by dats right lol

[Firebringer]

How many times will we allow Mastina to make these nothingburger insinuative points that hold nothing and say nothing and prove nothing before we stop fucking accepting them.

i mean i never accepted her terrible arguments.

[Firebringer]

FB regardless of your alignment it's been fun playing with ya this game especially today you are making me laugh, thanks for being you buddy

thanks buddy u 2

Y'all are reading Mastina's posts??

I skim the walls. But dats made me do a deep dive on like day 2 on my read so i actually have read all of mastina posts.

How many times will we allow Mastina to make these nothingburger insinuative points that hold nothing and say nothing and prove nothing before we stop fucking accepting them.

i mean i never accepted her terrible arguments.

Didn’t you agree with the VP and GL wolf read they made just like I did?

if ive agreed with any read of mastina its by coincidence. every case she has made or argument ive literally argued against in this game because its been bad argumentation. Ive literally argued against some case she made like day 2 even tho i agreed with her conclusion on the read.

[Firebringer]

mastina im ngl. ur ability to flip any good counter argument with ur logic judo that i can't wrap my head around. Is very interesting to watch.
Wish i had this ability to argue to an auditor the other day why deficiency wasn't a deficiency but actually proof of operational effectiveness. This would save me so much extra work. I mean i doubt they would accept the arguments, but i bet i could confuse them enough that i wouldn't hear back from them for a few weeks till they wrapped their head around my responses.

[Firebringer]

Honestly, would we even be having this conversation if the Cop was literally anyone besides Datisi

imagine me as cop.
there would be no hesitation to end me today.

[Firebringer]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

[Firebringer]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

fuck

but if i don't include the disclaimer i might hurt someone

shit this is a catch 22

got to small print it and put more spaces so it gives a few more seconds for reader to see the joke before getting to disclaimer.

[Firebringer]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

Yes, yes it would!

Scum can't get the tracker power without being on the council, now, can they?

Now how do scum not on the council get on the council?

I'm town but I got added after Johnny was eliminated and Shea gave me both of his powers.

Now imagine what happens if instead of town being added, it's scum.

It's

almost

like you're fucking proving my point.

GL point is killing me doesn't add a seat for the scum to join the council tho.

[Firebringer]

what if theres a secret part of the tracker role that only scum know about. Like what if the tracker is town and lives for more than 2 days the town auto wins. THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING

[Firebringer]

Probably the same world where everyone was approaching Luke with pitchforks and then scum killed him anyway

im telling u this tracker role has some sort of hidden mechanic that scum don't want town to have.
Maybe it will give me wings like red bull

[Firebringer]

Also Mastina, Furtive is voting Firebringer currently not Dat as far as I am aware but just remember that when Furtive flips Green.

is this supposed to be an argument of how i am scum or how datisi is scum.
what argument are u trying to make mastina aware

[Firebringer]

mastina while u and i both agree (weird i know) that dats is town.
Theres no way u can legit make an argument that LLD is gamethrowing to vote out a perosn she has no strong read on in which their flip helps her get more info out of the game and in which if town confirms 2 people for herself alignments. I get u townread dats and i agree theres plenty of things i see as town from dats. I think its wrong move to lim dats.

Its not gamethrowing to push for dats lim.
Dats isn't an IC. No matter how much we want him to be.

[Firebringer]

i think the andres was a good scum kill actually

[Firebringer]

okay i formulated a somewhat intelligible mechanic + reads reason dats can't go and ill give it a shot to sway away any possible dats voters:

its built around a few premises but here go:
1) dats is very unlikely scum here by play. For a variety of reasons I can lay out in detail. One was the shit push from dwlee on dats, which doesn't look like scum distancing. I also don't think dann/dats interactions look all buddying either. But I can also go into how dats is solving and pushing game forward constantly and attempting to solve. I don't think dats has any scum motivations i can see in posts and no one i can tell has really laid any out. The most i get is "im worried of world of dats!scum" im still waiting on a coherent scum case of dats that isn't just "well what if scum".

If you ignore or at least accept that the probability of dats flipping scum is at least below 50%.
2) What does killing dats accomplish?
For LLD its a big benefit because she reanalyzes both Titus/Mastina. To me these are both cleared in a scum!Datisi world. Less so for Titus but I am still 70-80% thinking her reaction to the clear was very townie.
She thinks it will help with furtive? I don't think so. I think dats scum flip still could mean furtive scum flip. If datisi is planning to deep wolf this game why not buss furtive as well? Kill more allies who aren't being townie enough get even greater towncred. Does he need it? Probably given how people are desperate to lim him for just paranoia. So how is furtive cleared on purely interactions between the two? I don't think he is at all.

Look at furtive by play. I don't see town there. And if your biggest case is interactions with datisi. You got a nothing burger to me.
I understand in my less than 50% scum dats world we have to do quite a bit of rethinking of a few things and maybe another council is scum. That would dramatically shift some items for our game view and solve.

3) If we kill say town dats here. (assuming it flips town). This is what happens - we would 100% have to guard Titus to ensure a check goes through. That also means scum are free to kill anyone but Titus. We are ensuring scum will get a kill at night.
Lets say we keep dats alive. Dats performs a check UNPROTECTED. Then scum make the choice. Do they allow town!dats to get ANOTHER clear, or go for an already clear/council when they could be protected and we could stop ANOTHER kill. If scum go for dats, good the debate is settled. They won't but its settled. And we get another chance to stop some night kill and dats freely gets another check.

To me risk/reward analyzing this. The marginal benefit i get from clearing my 5-6% doubt on Datisi, doesn't overcome the benefit of just having another free check from him. Then limming tomorrow to confirm all the clears.

This calculations im making is all based on my assessment of how strong i townread Datisi, but I think i would come to this same conclusion even if I was at a more likely than not 51-55% feeling on dats.
This also relates to unclearing LLD/Titus/Mastina on Dats flip. Actually doesn't change my read on them other than going from 99.99% cleared in my head now to like an average 80% clear.

So the net benefit. As how I see it, isn't that outstanding to do so today. I think we could still stop a kill tonight. I think we could get another clear from dats. Having 3 clears and maybe guilty tomorrow or 4 clears from dats. GOOD STUFF. Please do it.

[Firebringer]

okay i formulated a somewhat intelligible mechanic + reads reason dats can't go and ill give it a shot to sway away any possible dats voters:

its built around a few premises but here go:
1) dats is very unlikely scum here by play. For a variety of reasons I can lay out in detail. One was the shit push from dwlee on dats, which doesn't look like scum distancing. I also don't think dann/dats interactions look all buddying either. But I can also go into how dats is solving and pushing game forward constantly and attempting to solve. I don't think dats has any scum motivations i can see in posts and no one i can tell has really laid any out. The most i get is "im worried of world of dats!scum" im still waiting on a coherent scum case of dats that isn't just "well what if scum".

If you ignore or at least accept that the probability of dats flipping scum is at least below 50%.
2) What does killing dats accomplish?
For LLD its a big benefit because she reanalyzes both Titus/Mastina. To me these are both cleared in a scum!Datisi world. Less so for Titus but I am still 70-80% thinking her reaction to the clear was very townie.
She thinks it will help with furtive? I don't think so. I think dats scum flip still could mean furtive scum flip. If datisi is planning to deep wolf this game why not buss furtive as well? Kill more allies who aren't being townie enough get even greater towncred. Does he need it? Probably given how people are desperate to lim him for just paranoia. So how is furtive cleared on purely interactions between the two? I don't think he is at all.

Look at furtive by play. I don't see town there. And if your biggest case is interactions with datisi. You got a nothing burger to me.
I understand in my less than 50% scum dats world we have to do quite a bit of rethinking of a few things and maybe another council is scum. That would dramatically shift some items for our game view and solve.

3) If we kill say town dats here. (assuming it flips town). This is what happens - we would 100% have to guard Titus to ensure a check goes through. That also means scum are free to kill anyone but Titus. We are ensuring scum will get a kill at night.
Lets say we keep dats alive. Dats performs a check UNPROTECTED. Then scum make the choice. Do they allow town!dats to get ANOTHER clear, or go for an already clear/council when they could be protected and we could stop ANOTHER kill. If scum go for dats, good the debate is settled. They won't but its settled. And we get another chance to stop some night kill and dats freely gets another check.

To me risk/reward analyzing this. The marginal benefit i get from clearing my 5-6% doubt on Datisi, doesn't overcome the benefit of just having another free check from him. Then limming tomorrow to confirm all the clears.

This calculations im making is all based on my assessment of how strong i townread Datisi, but I think i would come to this same conclusion even if I was at a more likely than not 51-55% feeling on dats.
This also relates to unclearing LLD/Titus/Mastina on Dats flip. Actually doesn't change my read on them other than going from 99.99% cleared in my head now to like an average 80% clear.

So the net benefit. As how I see it, isn't that outstanding to do so today. I think we could still stop a kill tonight. I think we could get another clear from dats. Having 3 clears and maybe guilty tomorrow or 4 clears from dats. GOOD STUFF. Please do it.

[Firebringer]

i am wondering how much i should engage in this.

I think the evidence here that scum aren't affraid of dats clears is self evident that neither mastina/Titus have been attacked and datisi is alive. So we are in two worlds:
1) Scum don't care because Datisi is scum.
2) Scum don't care because they think can just mislim datisi through the paranoia

I am more in 2 than 1. if you are less than 50% on dats town then fine. But im not going to argue the mechanics of this really. I just want to hear what actions Dats himself has taken that is actually scummy. Not these hypothetical what could and will possibly happen.

[Firebringer]

still zero scum case on datisi.
Is this such a big ask for someone to provide me a look at datisi posts and tell me the scum motivation going on that i haven't seen.
I want someone to tell me this isn't just a paranoia/mechanic push.

No one is willing to do it. Its just 'this is optimal play'. That aint cutting it for me right now. Can someone scum case datisi

[Firebringer]

So its a simple follow the cop world with a town cop, and scum have been leaving the cop and all of his checks alive, instead trying to shoot FB or fireisred last night

we have been protecting the cop until yesterday.
for all scum knew one of datisi checks has also been protected (they weren't, but for all we know they don't know that).
To go and say 'its weird that dats and all the cop clears are alive' is like....That is the point of us having the JK/Doc guard them? What even is this argument.

Its just paranoia. Thats all there is to all of this. And we know scum have made what we all thought were questionable kills.

Ugh. Why do i bother.

[Firebringer]

i want to go back to basics.
Who is genuinely scumhunting and who isn't.
Whose reads thought processes make sense from town pov. Whose doesn't.
I am not engaging in hypothetical situations for remainder of this game day. SOMEONE HOLD ME TO THIS.
I am just going to analyze posts and thoughts and see if they are genuine or make sense.

[Firebringer]

I apologize. I should make it clear when im saying i want a scum datisi case. I want people to proclaim it so i can analyze if they believe it or not.

No, I don't think i will be swayed. I am not asking someone to sway me right now.
My purpose of asking this is two fold:
1) I want to see how much people actually believe datisi is scum because that will help me further read them better post datisi scum flip
2) I want to see where there COULD be gaps in my townread datisi that im blind to.

Do i think im going to be swayed? No. But right now this proposal of wagon has gotten people to jump on that is unreadable for the lot of them. I don't think i can figure out a motivation for this datisi push based on how its presented.

[Firebringer]

Is it because for once you aren't in control?

i dont know where this is coming from.
i haven't been in control of this game at all.
the only 'control' i think ive ever felt in this game was the ability to help council organize night actions last night.

[Firebringer]

i don't think its a waste of time to get people to make a scum case of datisi if they believe datisi is scum. But w/e.
the way you present ur last post suggests it will be a 100% horse shot shoehorned case that you made out of thin air. So i guess i would just not believe u even believe ur case when u made it. Feels sort of poison well but w/e.

[Firebringer]

so are u saying i won't be able to tell a scum fabricated case from a town one?
I feel like that is counter intuitive to how mafia is played.

[Firebringer]

No, i am deliberately trying to figure out who is actually motivated to lim a scum!datisi here and who is just riding on ur mechanic theory and using you as cover tbh.

I don't know why you cant let me just push this question to people. ur kind of deliberately pushing against me trying to solve the motivations of people who agree with you. Because it can hurt the chances datisi flips.

[Firebringer]

I already am aware of my bias. What are we even arguing about.
Ive stated im not here to ask to be swayed. I am here to figure out who really believes datisi is scum.
I get you think thats unimportant and won't net me any results. But why can't i do this.
Because i won't do what you want? Ok great. Thanks

[Firebringer]

and ive already agreed to flipping datisi tomorrow.
So this whole "firebringer won't play ball" and "firebringer just wants control". Its like projection to me.

[Firebringer]

and ive already agreed to flipping datisi tomorrow.
So this whole "firebringer won't play ball" and "firebringer just wants control". Its like projection to me.

And what happens when Datisi has a guilty tomorrow FB?

You gonna kill Datisi before the guilty?

depends. If we flip scum today, then might just flip the guilty tomorrow. If we don't flip scum today. Fine will still flip datisi tomorrow even if guilty.

[Firebringer]

if we don't flip scum today. Say furtive flips town.
My reads have been trash. So i can't just rley on them.
That is where i am at

[Firebringer]

i have to get back to work. be back later tonight

[Firebringer]

LLD is under impression that ur scum flip clears furtive here.
Which I don't think it is.
I don't see why scum!dats wouldn't be bussing furtive here.

[Firebringer]

what even is ur read on me these days.
i haven't followed it in awhile, r u townreading me or what.
u don't treat me like scum so what is it

[Firebringer]

what even is ur read on me these days.
i haven't followed it in awhile, r u townreading me or what.
u don't treat me like scum so what is it

You're in my poe yeah. I don't see a town motivation to the way you withhold information, when I can't think of anything the mafia shouldn't know. Your whole demeanour is sus. I don't think my last post treated you like you were town, I called your me/Datisi S/S theory a massive reach, that's more shade than anything else

i would call ur last post calling me a moron. Which to me sounds like u townread me not sus read me. But okay

[Firebringer]

weren't the council actions already outed

like i feel like i read someone saying them at some point

he is talking about how i withheld information about the money thing i think.

[Firebringer]

They are trying to make Mastina and Shea look bad and are hoping for them to go over instead of them.

if by look bad u mean ive been calling them town. Sure. Lets go with that

[Firebringer]

i feel like drapion is butt hurt i yelled at him and called his reads bad and continued to spam for him to vote furtive.
So his answer to that is write this narrative how everything i do is some dastardly plan of scum. Idk i kind of enjoy the fiction so i want to read the full book.

I don't like how drapion releases parts scattered all over. He needs to organize it and put it in book form, chapters and all.

I want to hear the dastardly stories of myself.

[Firebringer]

LLD....ur trying to trade with Enchant.....
Enchant.

What has this world become

[Firebringer]

I have a guilty on mastina.
she visited fireisredsir last night
she didn't have any gold

quickly vote her out before she gets on
VOTE: mastina

[Firebringer]

We have to hurry and vote her out before she ends the day and just kills.
EVERYONE VOTE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Firebringer]

[quote="In post 5220, Firebringer"

]I have a guilty on mastina.
she visited fireisredsir last night
she didn't have any gold

[/quote]

[Firebringer]

WHy you didn't give any gold........

long story short.
i didn't send any gold last night to anyone because i fucking forget ot send provisional actions to pooky. By time i woke up pooky said grace period passed and dats was flipped.

Anyways, either way. Mastina visited fireisred.

VOTE MASTINA NOW!!!

[Firebringer]

mastina (5): Titus, GL, enchant, furtive, firebringer (not in order)

not voting: LLD, Unowen, Drapion, mastina

LLD GET ON AND VOTE NOW!

[Firebringer]

She literally can’t survive today and I have guilty
As soon as she logs in she will kill me
It doesn’t matter if she scum claims by doing it

I have literal guilty she does either way tomorrow if y’all get cold feet and decide to lim me instead

Vote mastina before this scum vigilante shoots

[Firebringer]

How the fuck did I get an actual guilty with this useless tracker lololol

[Firebringer]

Titus
No one but me had money last night
Did u read council chat

[Firebringer]

Titus
No one but me had money last night
Did u read council chat

I've been RL exhausted. Do potions and gold carry over?

Mastina claimed to have used the 500 gold I gave them night before
That was all the gold she should had

[Firebringer]

If mastina comes in before townie can hammer
I’m gonna smash my head against keyboard

[Firebringer]

Roden is my hero this game

[Firebringer]

Can we name Roden as king now?

[Firebringer]

Titus visited me last night.

GG

VOTE: Titus

[Firebringer]

That gambit you guys did with datisi fake clearing both of you. Crazy.
Mad props did not see that coming

[Firebringer]

No, i mean Titus visited me.
She had no night action available to her. I gave her zero money.
Enchant gave me potion to heal.

Titus is scum confirmed.

[Firebringer]

Tracker with 2 guilties. Not that it mattered since the actions in kingsguard gave it away as well.

[Firebringer]

What a fitting end to have king enchant execute

[Firebringer]

All hail the mad king!

I survived 3 kings and now only council member left.

Good work me.

[Firebringer]

no need to apologize.
i was mad scum siding this whole game with how much i trusted datisi, titus and mastina.

Was mad pocketed
Biggest scum ally over here

[Firebringer]

Roden is Prince.

The Prince that was Promised!!

[Firebringer]

I'm gonna say none of my reads should count after Datisi started fucking with the POE with his FALSE(!) and MISLEADING(!) clears and therefore my reads were overall immaculate this game

<3

gg town.

thank you for modding, pooky.

i so want to read ur guys chat on how u decided to fake clear both mastina/titus
How preplanned was that?

[Firebringer]

Follow the cop game. It was fun but not mafia.

I'm still interested in how the treasury worked, apparently there wasn't enough cash for cop + doc every night

I could reveal full details, might have to pull up logs with pooky or he will show it in mod pt.
Basically i got something like 1600 gold starting
costs for roles was-
cop - 1000
doctor - 500
jailkeep - 500
tracker - 500

So there was no way i could fund all the roles night 1. I got more money later on in the game as i put money into investments and made some killer gains in the stonks (wizard) market.

i had no indication of how much gold income i get per night till next day. so i threw everything into investments and put more in the next night. It raised our daily income to where we were near end game to around 2.2k gold a day.

anyways in hindisght me not funding the cop night 1 seems much better knowing datisi was scum.

[Firebringer]

read lot of dead chat
@andres yes i know im very dumb for forgetting to submit action. It was even worse finding out after i worked over night and slept in to 10 am finding out i missed the grace period by literally like 40 min? I was like god damn pooky just let me submit it

[Firebringer]

These PTs are a delight to read

Can't believe Firebringer fell for the classic wizard scam smh

I mean I didn’t lose that much I just gave him my extra like 225 gold?
I think I actually went net neutral for money with wizard because of him stealing money and running

U should see my dms with pooky after finding out the wizard is gone
Me : so did I not get money?
Pooky: the guy mysteriously vanishes without a word and you think he left you?
Me : maybe he left it on my doorstep and had an emergency
Me: I’m very trusting
Pooky: lol

[Firebringer]

all the night actions picked by mastina
and suddenly every kill makes so much more sense.

also this was funny when i got the guilty on mastina

Since nobody got gold, we can do that safely, yes.

Meanwhile: Firebringer tracks Mastina

Every night killing tracker and or redirecting the jailkeeper. Meanwhile master of coin not giving any money to the jailkeep LOLZ

[Firebringer]

Titus all the clears were fake.
and ur play was bad enough u had to be fake cleared.
what r u talking about.

u even said to me while i ask why u were so low on WIM that u just don't care anymore.