Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[Coral]

My main point here is that you have not read the game and do not have a sense of the landscape of the game and people's reads and relationships to each other, so you are assuming that the swap was made purely based on the only information you have, which is the player's names.

I fairly strongly believe that what has actually happened in this game most likely had more of an effect on the choice of swap than your judgements of the relative strengths of players as town or as scum.

[absinthe]

I need to get to bed. Hitting the road pretty early tomorrow.

@MOD V/LA until Friday afternoon.

[MathBlade]

My main point here is that you have not read the game and do not have a sense of the landscape of the game and people's reads and relationships to each other, so you are assuming that the swap was made purely based on the only information you have, which is the player's names.

I fairly strongly believe that what has actually happened in this game most likely had more of an effect on the choice of swap than your judgements of the relative strengths of players as town or as scum.

I generally agree with this premise, to an extent.

I find scum generally make choices with mech and relationships in mind.

If one side is entirely excluded (which seems to be the implication here) then the relationships will be why.

It’s about why scum were in my opinion suboptimal? What relationship drove that?

[MathBlade]

If the team is all relationship no mech that might drive it. But realistically probably both

[MathBlade]

Given you have experience with Skitter (and I doubt you’d lie about something Skitter can refute) then my earlier premise of you being new based on the join date might be wrong which would throw my same alignment premise off.

[Coral]

Mech is different from player strength. Your point was that absinthe and skitter are the same alignment because of something to do with player strength. I don't really follow your reasoning, so I can't exactly argue against it, but this...

Assume top is all town. Then scum would choose from a two game to add into the top game.
Given Isis and Chara and absinthe and Catboi are all good scum, taking any one of those into a top versus skitter seems a better strategy. So then likely top is not all town.

...is nonsensical. You jump to the conclusion that the Gate was not all town originally because... scum should have swapped a good scum player to play against skitter, instead of swapping skitter out? That's a leap in logic that is entirely unsupported.

[MathBlade]

Mech is different from player strength. Your point was that absinthe and skitter are the same alignment because of something to do with player strength. I don't really follow your reasoning, so I can't exactly argue against it, but this...

Assume top is all town. Then scum would choose from a two game to add into the top game.
Given Isis and Chara and absinthe and Catboi are all good scum, taking any one of those into a top versus skitter seems a better strategy. So then likely top is not all town.

...is nonsensical. You jump to the conclusion that the Gate was not all town originally because... scum should have swapped a good scum player to play against skitter, instead of swapping skitter out? That's a leap in logic that is entirely unsupported.

It’s not just skitter out.

When I wrote this post I lacked knowledge you had some experience with some of the player base.

So when I wrote it, it was Experience v ? V ?

Which is suboptimal.

[Coral]

Given you have experience with Skitter (and I doubt you’d lie about something Skitter can refute) then my earlier premise of you being new based on the join date might be wrong which would throw my same alignment premise off.

Yes, that is my point. You seem to also be thinking that Faker is new. Faker is Prism.

I don't think you should be basing anything on the premise of people in this game being ineffective or even weak as either alignment because I don't believe that's the case for anyone.

[MathBlade]

Then absinthe (who I was told was ffery) keeps that same E v ? V ?

It’s weird.

[MathBlade]

Given you have experience with Skitter (and I doubt you’d lie about something Skitter can refute) then my earlier premise of you being new based on the join date might be wrong which would throw my same alignment premise off.

Yes, that is my point. You seem to also be thinking that Faker is new. Faker is Prism.

I don't think you should be basing anything on the premise of people in this game being ineffective or even weak as either alignment because I don't believe that's the case for anyone.

So it’s an experience thunderdome and mech is irrelevant…

Lovely.

Hi Achilles heel.

[Chara]

absinthe: i'd rather it not be called peacemaking, i didn't help anything and actively made it worse. but, i should sleep and try not to dwell i suppose.

[Coral]

Given you have experience with Skitter (and I doubt you’d lie about something Skitter can refute) then my earlier premise of you being new based on the join date might be wrong which would throw my same alignment premise off.

Yes, that is my point. You seem to also be thinking that Faker is new. Faker is Prism.

I don't think you should be basing anything on the premise of people in this game being ineffective or even weak as either alignment because I don't believe that's the case for anyone.

So it’s an experience thunderdome and mech is irrelevant…

Lovely.

Hi Achilles heel.

Essentially, yes!

I don't think mech is irrelevant, though. Mech plays a role here, it's just very closely tied to the context of dayplay that you'll only find by reading. I think that exact co-mingling of mechanics and dayplay is part of what makes this setup especially interesting.

[MathBlade]

Given you have experience with Skitter (and I doubt you’d lie about something Skitter can refute) then my earlier premise of you being new based on the join date might be wrong which would throw my same alignment premise off.

Yes, that is my point. You seem to also be thinking that Faker is new. Faker is Prism.

I don't think you should be basing anything on the premise of people in this game being ineffective or even weak as either alignment because I don't believe that's the case for anyone.

So it’s an experience thunderdome and mech is irrelevant…

Lovely.

Hi Achilles heel.

Essentially, yes!

I don't think mech is irrelevant, though. Mech plays a role here, it's just very closely tied to the context of dayplay that you'll only find by reading. I think that exact co-mingling of mechanics and dayplay is part of what makes this setup especially interesting.

I don’t know if we have played before but you sound familiar.

In case we haven’t though, I am on the spectrum so I prefer starting with facts like vote counts or mech because my internal emotion calculations are different (not flawed per se just different). And I like figuring out why scum do things. Co mingling things will be … rough.

I noticed you skipped over my 1-10 questions. Was that intentional? If it was you don’t have to answer I was just curious if it was or not.

[MathBlade]

Sigh

I was already leaning this way but I am a little tempted to just locktown skitter for this, as poor form as that is to do for a one-word post

It was my exact reaction, and I don't think she gets much out of responding this way as scum considering she probably needs Math on her side. It makes it feel honest, and I think as scum her honest reaction would be more concerned or appeasing.

Never ever read Skitter honest as town.

Skitter has one of the best scum games on MS. And I’ve seen some doozies.

Skitter (and myself) are both top tier scum who do honest lying really really well.

I have no doubt that’s skitter’s emotion it’s a matter of why to sort her

I'm sure you have only the best intentions, but I'm familiar with skitter, and I've already taken the strength of her scumgame into account when making that read. The advice is noted but does not affect my opinion!

You definitely don’t sound like a new player.

But your date is June.

I am not alt hunting but you said you had experience with Skitter and I want to see if you’re “experienced”.

On a scale of 1 to 10 1 = newbie 10 = 400 year old wizard
Where are you on experience?

On a scale of 1 to 10 1 = gut 10 = logic where are you?

I kinda have a vibe where I think you fall but I want to see if this vibe matches

Here it is if you missed it.

[Coral]

I don't think they would be useful to answer and I'm not particularly interested in answering them anyway. I have a completed game as both alignment if you would like to read meta.

As for facts, it's true this setup is lacking in them. In the worst case, you could just sheep Tempest!

[MathBlade]

I don't think they would be useful to answer and I'm not particularly interested in answering them anyway. I have a completed game as both alignment if you would like to read meta.

As for facts, it's true this setup is lacking in them. In the worst case, you could just sheep Tempest!

I have a phrase conf town != conf right.

But you’ve hinted if you’re scum Tempest’s reads are horrible
And if you’re town tempest’s reads aren’t bad to you

I am interested in them for my sake. People tend to be creatures of habit. A strategic player going “gut” would be alarming and vice versa. A not mafia esque player doing a wall case would be ???

Differentiations from habit brings up a why to ask for.

[MathBlade]

I don't think they would be useful to answer and I'm not particularly interested in answering them anyway. I have a completed game as both alignment if you would like to read meta.

As for facts, it's true this setup is lacking in them. In the worst case, you could just sheep Tempest!

I would like those meta when you can btw

I won’t probably look right away but only if something pings me because there’s a lot to digest

[Coral]

I'm not really sure what Tempest's reads are, she hasn't updated in a bit, so I don't think they factor in to my point about you sheeping.

I would say tend to lean towards logic and reason and strategy, but am at times tempted into being swayed by gut.

[MathBlade]

I'm not really sure what Tempest's reads are, she hasn't updated in a bit, so I don't think they factor in to my point about you sheeping.

I would say tend to lean towards logic and reason and strategy, but am at times tempted into being swayed by gut.

So mid road so if you spend most of d1 talking mech not reads probably scum
Or if you did no mech all reads prob scum

But if you balance prob town.

Not lock obviously but enough to where if you deviate ask why.

[Coral]

I talked mostly mech because in this setup, it is beneficial to obscure your reads to an extent. I talked about reads significantly less than I normally would as either alignment.

[MathBlade]

hello everyone! it's Prism's fault i'm here.

the only thoughts i currently have about the setup is that we get no flips until the first location resolves on day 2, meaning almost every important decision is made before getting any concrete feedback.
i'm not sure how much information we get from the night 1 swapping of players.

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

I don’t like this post from it.

There’s lots of feedback from the if all three scum in one location rule.

It’s doubtful scum would risk that early as Coral said.

That leaves lots of room for feedback.

Negativity like this pings me.

[MathBlade]

I think chemistry between people will matter more for games than like "put a consensus townread in game x" because townreads can be wrong if you get them all right you win anyway. Maybe picking scummy players for certain games kind of like gerrymanders your EV though? Maybe that's more impactful.

It seems like a nontrivial setup, brainwrinkler. Which can make me worried about dayplay health.

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

I don’t feel Coral and Isis can be teamed.

It wouldn’t be Isis’s style to directly connect herself to a buddy if she’s scum. And if she’s town by definition not teamed.

[MathBlade]

Okay nope my brain is in skim mode as I liked tried to calculate some things and it’s all….sleep

Later y’all.

[Coral]

Something that's worth keeping in mind is the differences this setup provides to the natural dayplay.

One is that it's denser. 6v3 instead of the standard 7v2. There will be by necessity more scum interactions with each other, and scum have a larger influence on the thread than usual.

Another is that bussing is generally approached differently and with different goals, since no scum can ever directly vote out another scum. That changes the motivations scum may have to distance and push each other.

There's probably others but those two immediately come to mind.

[MathBlade]

GUMDROP GATE

[0]

absinthe:

[0]

Coral:

[3]

Not voting:

absinthe, Coral,

Tempest

WAFER WALL

[0]

demona:

[0]

Isis:

[0]

Chara:

[3]

Not voting:

demona, Isis, Chara

KRAMPUS KEEP

[0]

MathBlade:

[0]

skitter30:

[0]

catboi:

[3]

Not voting:

MathBlade, skitter30, catboi

MOD NOTES

• The day will end in (expired on 2022-12-31 09:19:18)

• have fun!

• v/la: none!

• free candy cane

One last question that’s annoying me.

Why haven’t either absinthe or you cross voted?