New Year Dance Party [afterparty]

[furtiveglance]

Enchant/Midway has one scum, Owen/Baltar has one. Game doesn't make sense otherwise. I have struck gold finally. I realised that Enchant/Midway have to contain scum

Why Enchant/midway?

Cakez was frozen out. If they were the only mafia in the last players to be paired, scum would have made more of an effort to save them. I believe I said this earlier. Also I just can't see 2 Mafia without including that pair.

a) that only makes sense as a reason if Enchant is scum right?
b) you're townreading the rest of the game?

Not your pair. And not really Firebringer but don't want to vote IC pair

That doesn't answer the first Q.
You're townreading the entire game except me/vpb/enchant/midway/firebringer?

Yes. And yes Enchant could be scum is what I'm saying

[UNOwen]

Nothing else she's done points to town.

I think she's town rn cuz she came out of both flips ready to solve

What do you mean?

after cakez flipped scum, she noted that cakez is a known busser and started pulling quotes. I didn't get an agenda-y vibe from it.
after ari flipped scum, she started pushing you/vpb and pulled up a gazillion vote counts.
I feel that scum generally don't come in with so much energy after their buddies have gotten flipped.

Neither of those flips were unexpected by the time they happened, they weren't close run things.
From my perspective her push post Cakez flip was Irrel, who I think is town and her push post Ari was me.
If MariaR/furtive is a T/T pair do my votes really look bad? I feel like that if I equalized the wagons it wasn't inevitable what would happen.

[UNOwen]

Yes. And yes Enchant could be scum is what I'm saying

What happens if midway accepted Enchants refusal and then he flips scum who committed suicide?

That seems like it would be a pretty easy deduction that he's do that to save his buddy.

[Gimli]

The above is dramatic and toxic, sorry.

But I am going crazy here getting into arguments with people about MariaR, haven't been able to concentrate on stuff outside of the game and etc. I need to disconnect myself from this game if I am not getting MariaR flip ever (What sounds like it's gonna happen? You all want to kill the people that can/do cast votes on her).

If the pair needs to die eventually anyway, why not now?

If you think the pair is t/t...well, I disagree and don't know how to engage this game freshly with that perspective on mind. So I may be the problem and need to chill out.

can you point to that awkward moment you mentioned with mariaR, that's apparently got you to be so sure she is scum?

[Gimli]

Furitives focus has been on survival when a town mindset is one that may require sacrifice. You may have to kill your partner if they're scum in a dance game. So the right mindset would be to sort your partner and figure out if you need to leave.

Instead, furitive has done absolutely NOTHING to advance the town win condition except sheep the IC who was right about the pair but wrong about the person. Could be a bus. His only real case is an OMGuS vote because I'm apparently lazy scum (no elaboration) so I think he's projecting.

OTOH he is extremely damn sure that maria is town. I wonder if she thinks the same.

[Gimli]

I might start going in 'survival mode' if I'm too confident you're town too, dragons. and I'm starting to believe you really hard.

[midwaybear]

What do you find fishy about me? Since "a little".

I didn't really get why you had to say you were town and didn't read anything in ur first post. Bit of an awkward intro.
felt like you were stalling out Shirou a bit, potentially from an informed angle
and you ask a bit too much questions which idk why i found scummy but yea
mostly just series of small pings that prevented me from liking ur entrance

[Gimli]

Meuh's post is way too large and what I read wasn't any good, feels like busywork to me but IDK I just got here

[UNOwen]

@midway - does this make sense to you?

Yes. And yes Enchant could be scum is what I'm saying

What happens if midway accepted Enchants refusal and then he flips scum who committed suicide?

That seems like it would be a pretty easy deduction that he's do that to save his buddy.

[Gimli]

What do you find fishy about me? Since "a little".

I didn't really get why you had to say you were town and didn't read anything in ur first post. Bit of an awkward intro.
felt like you were stalling out Shirou a bit, potentially from an informed angle
and you ask a bit too much questions which idk why i found scummy but yea
mostly just series of small pings that prevented me from liking ur entrance

I am town and I didn't read the game before posting didn't know the setup was too lazy to read it etc.

stalling shirou where? when he wanted me to vote maria? would it make sense for me to vote her or something?

and ok you find me scummy, I think you're towny, I don't like this post you made too much but I also maybe pressured you to put into word some feelings you had that don't amount to anything decent

[UNOwen]

Gimli I ask you the same

[Gimli]

Nothing else she's done points to town.

I think she's town rn cuz she came out of both flips ready to solve

What do you mean?

after cakez flipped scum, she noted that cakez is a known busser and started pulling quotes. I didn't get an agenda-y vibe from it.
after ari flipped scum, she started pushing you/vpb and pulled up a gazillion vote counts.
I feel that scum generally don't come in with so much energy after their buddies have gotten flipped.

that's great I'll sheep your ydrassse read

@unowen: I'll get to your question when I get there, but let me ask you something: what do you think of baltar?

[Gimli]

Gimli I ask you the same

I have no idea what you're talking about actually

[UNOwen]

@unowen: I'll get to your question when I get there, but let me ask you something: what do you think of baltar?

not very trustworthy but not a good idea to kill him just yet

[UNOwen]

Gimli I ask you the same

I have no idea what you're talking about actually

the question that I asked midway about Enchant - his play as scum would be a ridiculously counterproductive risk
y/n? I think yes should be the obvious answer if you look at it but maybe people disagree

[Gimli]

let me go find what part of the thread you're talking about, I just got into the game and don't know what happened between enchant and midway

[fireisredsir]

@Unowen your leafs are dazzling and I would like you to come be part of the MariaR/Furt wagon family. What would it take for this dream of mine to be realized?

Flattery has got you 80% of the way. What do you think of Ydrasse? I have a feeling she's scum.

can you give reasons please? i usually find your reasoning behind your reads to be fairly solid and well thought-out as town, even if you're generally quiet about it. so i would like to hear it

The reason is that her early play looked designed to get partnered by someone, specifically the point about Meuh. The comment on Drapion does not have much of a scum motivation at all really if you think about it, so I'm very unconvinced that Ydrasse was as bothered about it as she's making out. More likely explanation for her zeroing in on it is that she was trying to look proactive and solvy.

That's a tone read which admittedly I could just be interpreting wrongly. I don't think so though. Nothing else she's done points to town. The big post she made on reads a while back looked designed to keep options open ("X could be the case but maybe it's Y" etc.) and her defense of you when you were under pressure looked pretty panicked and not very interested in your alignment.

i agree that some of the early questions felt like they could be a little forced and that was part of my suspicion. but i think looking at the way ari handled different pairings i would much rather look in the ones she defended than in the one that she seemed most like she wanted to yeet?

like you said that she seemed a little bit defensive/panicked when our pairing was under pressure but do you think that makes sense when a lot of the pressure was coming from ari?

[Meuh]

VOTE: UNOwen/VP Baltar

VOTE: MariaR/Furtive

[Meuh]

Gimli I ask you the same

I have no idea what you're talking about actually

the question that I asked midway about Enchant - his play as scum would be a ridiculously counterproductive risk
y/n? I think yes should be the obvious answer if you look at it but maybe people disagree

What rules out the idea of Enchant wanting to be left out so Cakez could keep playing?
Enchant and Cakez' mentalities line up in a way where both wanted Cakez to be moving on and both tried to make it happen, like the focal point of both of their gameplay was to get Cakez to be in a pair

[Gimli]

Gimli I ask you the same

I have no idea what you're talking about actually

the question that I asked midway about Enchant - his play as scum would be a ridiculously counterproductive risk
y/n? I think yes should be the obvious answer if you look at it but maybe people disagree

it was him and cakez left, yes? it makes sense as scum to play that way. I think, more importantly, it might be spewing midway town if enchant is town, since they went for a player they had every reason to distance themselves from. that is, if I read the situation correctly.

[Meuh]

If anything I find it more likely for Enchant to feel like he doesn't deserve to move on compared to Cakez if he specifically is paired with him, rather than Enchant just being a townie who townread Cakez really hard. In that scenario he actually like owes something to Cakez which is why he'd feel so strongly about it.

[UNOwen]

i agree that some of the early questions felt like they could be a little forced and that was part of my suspicion. but i think looking at the way ari handled different pairings i would much rather look in the ones she defended than in the one that she seemed most like she wanted to yeet?

like you said that she seemed a little bit defensive/panicked when our pairing was under pressure but do you think that makes sense when a lot of the pressure was coming from ari?

tbh I don't actually remember Ari as being particularly invested in pushing you. I took a quick check on the ISO just now and yes there were a few posts about pushing you as scum but actual vote takes place after (from eyeballing 1650) the wagon against Norwee/Ari had taken hold.

I'll look again later at the way at the time your wagons competed, you might be right and I didn't notice but my current stance based on what I was picking up is that Ydrasse/Ari are plausible enough as partners.

[Firebringer]

shirou i like the new avi

[UNOwen]

@Meuh, Gimli

I get that theoretically scum!Enchant might believe that Cakez would be a better bet to continue and refuse for that reason.

But! If we consider town reaction, when Enchant flips scum - everyone asks: "Why did scum Enchant choose to die???". That's only a defensible trade if Cakez is also scum? So I suppose the answer could be WIFOM but I think that any rational town would just ignore that and decide that the most likely answer is he wanted to save Cakez therefore Cakez is also scum.

[Gimli]

it's WIFOM so it shouldn't be read either way. which means, also, that we don't try to parse out enchant for that play, cause we go straight into WIFOM territory as it as nonsensical for his wincon if he is town and if he is mafia. my 2c.