Newbie 2108 - Postgame

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Post Post #1125 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:14 pm

Post by Alianna »

2.08
Votecount 2.08


Aureal (E-2): cactus, BlueBloodedToffee
cactus (E-2): Elements, Pavowski
Pavowski (1): Brickwalll
Elements (1): IdleMuse

Not Voting (1): Aureal

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-01-14 20:04:17).
I townread Alianna.

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On hiatus from playing mafia.
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Post Post #1126 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:21 pm

Post by Aureal »

Pavowski wrote: Are we buddies yet?
Hmmmmm.

Okay, fine.

Not because of anything you've done, of course. ;)

I'm just starting to actually feel pretty confident that the scum are both in the BBT-cactus-Elements trio. This wagon attempt on me feels very scum-motivated. I don't think this happens without both of them pushing it. BBT and cactus have both been seeing some pressure all of D2, and Elements started drawing some earlier this morning, so I'm not sure exactly what the trigger was for them to try to close the trap. But they couldn't just sit back and leave things as they were with deadline coming in 2 days and actually risk getting one of their own caught out.
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Post Post #1127 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:08 pm

Post by cactus »

In post 1116, Pavowski wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 1112, cactus wrote:
In post 1109, IdleMuse wrote:
In post 1084, cactus wrote:
In post 1083, IdleMuse wrote:@cactus Is your argument that people who correctly townread Weuler should be scum? Because I did too, and you've been pretty townready on me.
My argument is that people who do not have a reason to townread Weuler is scum
Can you point out which one of Weuler's posts you found towny?
- The early e-1-then-unvote I bought as newbie town, and said so at the time.
- - prevaricating, slight town to me in the early game
- - felt like legitimate attempt to pressure charles into actually posting content not just 'hi, bye'
- - the mea culpa felt geniune, I read it as nervous town (same as myself D1 out the gate)
- and similar around that time - felt like legitimate scumhunting to me.
- - I don't see how this post would have come from scum at all, scum don't tend to discuss PRs in open chat (whereas town, esp. newbie town, obviously do sometimes) unless they have an agenda to it and I saw no agenda there.
- I'm getting bored of isoing a dead player who we now know the alignment of anyway, I don't think this exercise was a particularly useful one other than I think it shows there's plenty of reasonable posts to suggest that faith in Weuler's towniness wasn't unjustified (triple negative?).

preview: and indeed I missed a bunch of current posts doing this.
Good examples. In hindsight we of course know that Weuler was newbtown
However, Aureal cited none of these quotes, showing that she doesn't have the town perspective that she should have while townreading Weuler.
Here it is again. Basically -- Aureal SHOULD be thinking *this* but isn't, therefore scum

This is not good/fair reasoning
What should Aureal be thinking?
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Post Post #1128 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:47 pm

Post by Aureal »

Okay guys, I tried to do a re-read but only made it to page 15 as I'm tired and my head is going fuzzy so it's hard to think things through as well as I'd like. I've poked around more at various things too and I didn't see too much more to convince me not to vote cactus. And I'm seeing a dichotomy here between cactus and BBT that I think should be resolved. It could be that Elements saw it too, or Elements is just being Elements still and is going to come back in the morning to chastise me for daring to vote, or vote half the people in the game and the moon.

This is e-1: VOTE: cactus

Your move, BBT? I don't know if your vote move was intended to pressure me into voting here or if somehow you've made some incredible discovery that makes me so much scummier than cactus even though you have even less reason than anyone else to think I'm scum, but you could've just waited for me to have the time to consider things more like I said I would be doing. You're going to have some 'splaining to do if somehow you don't want to lim cactus anymore.
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Post Post #1129 (ISO) » Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:33 pm

Post by Aureal »

And to try to avert possible chaos while I'm at work tomorrow I'm gonna lay out some more of what I've been thinking now. If this somehow makes me seem scummier, well I guess them's the breaks but at least I got it out.

Remember when Pav called me basically a town lock on D1? Yeah, I'd realized that was pretty significant town cred a while after I posted it. If I was scum and the Charles/BBT slot was town, it'd be useful to be able to keep that suspicion on it. I expect the "Charles is lurking because scum" suspicion would linger even on a replacement, and there was no guarantee there'd even be a replacement at that point. I see very little likelihood that scum even goes looking for that info on a town Charles in the first place, let alone shares it with everyone.

Maybe I overestimated the strength of that cred a bit, but that did affect my play once Pav came out with it. I'd been hoping to take that to later in the game when numbers were fewer, and having a pretty solid town reason on someone could swing the game. I'm typically the kind of indecisive person who is pretty much always around until endgame so if that stayed un-realized for a while it could be a significant advantage. Then Pav came along and blurted it out. Which made sure scum would be aware of it too, and that didn't seem like the kind of player they'd want to take to endgame. So I promptly started to try to damage control by both making it a big deal and sweeping it under the rug. Make it a big deal in the sense that trying to claim that credit is of course going to make people less willing to give it. And sweep it under the rug in that I wanted others to keep their views under wraps. Make the scum guess how much credit everyone is giving me there.

And, realizing that I would be a good nightkill because of that cred, I also started playing up my fears of being nightkilled. Hence all the "OMG Pav is trying to get me nightkilled" stuff. I was kind of hoping scum would see that and take it as a sign that I was worried because I had a PR, and make it even more likely that I'd draw the nightkill and keep it off of real ones. Also, it was funny to contemplate the idea that I would get nightkilled. That never happens unless I have a PR. :lol: So I probably kept the joke up a bit longer than needed, but why let a good joke die? Messing with Pav is fun. :P

So here we get to D2, we find we don't have much left in the way of useful PR, so I still wanted to try to keep the scum guessing what they can do about me. So I've maybe been messing around a bit more than I would normally. This has also been a significant reason I've been down on BBT. Unlike the rest of you, BBT knows that I am not scumpartners with them. I've been figuring that if BBT is town they should realize I'm most likely town too. If BBT is town and thinks I'm scum, BBT must think I'm really bold or really dumb to make that post clearing the Charles suspicion off their slot. So I've been trying to gauge what they think of me. I've been figuring if they're scum they're not so concerned about the implications there, so BBT scumreading me makes me more inclined to do so in return. I'm probably a little off base with that. And there was always the chance that BBT has been playing up the suspicion of me to keep that indeterminate air around my suspicion level, like I've been thinking others have been doing. It's hard for even me to tell how much of everyone's suspicion of me is genuine and how much is played up, so if you've been playing this game with me wanting to see if we can bait out some scum after me, good job, I think it's working. :lol:
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Post Post #1130 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:28 am

Post by Pavowski »

is the LAMISTest LAMIST that ever LAMISTed

But I am a little skeptical that scum!Aureal writes it

I have more to say but it's gonna have to wait til I have some time later on today
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Post Post #1131 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:41 am

Post by Elements »

Okay team, we've got just over 1 day left to bash it out and find scum.
I'm currently voting Cactus but I'm still up for an Aureal wagon should that become viable
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1132 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:42 am

Post by Elements »

In post 1056, Aureal wrote:
In post 1046, Elements wrote:inb4aurealvotesme
Sounds like a challenge.

VOTE: Elements

UNVOTE:
What was the point of this? Or have I already asked that?
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Post Post #1133 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:11 am

Post by IdleMuse »

Brick, are you still keen on pushing a Pav wagon today?
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Post Post #1134 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:13 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Well, Aureal and Cactus cross voting sure is interesting.

Intent to hammer Cactus
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #1135 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:18 am

Post by IdleMuse »

Now we see whether your or elements were right on top of p44
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Post Post #1136 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:19 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I'm surprised Elements is voting Cactus.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #1137 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:53 am

Post by Elements »

In post 1136, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm surprised Elements is voting Cactus.
You changed my mind
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Post Post #1138 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:38 pm

Post by Pavowski »

Spoiler:
In post 1129, Aureal wrote:And to try to avert possible chaos while I'm at work tomorrow I'm gonna lay out some more of what I've been thinking now. If this somehow makes me seem scummier, well I guess them's the breaks but at least I got it out.

Remember when Pav called me basically a town lock on D1? Yeah, I'd realized that was pretty significant town cred a while after I posted it. If I was scum and the Charles/BBT slot was town, it'd be useful to be able to keep that suspicion on it. I expect the "Charles is lurking because scum" suspicion would linger even on a replacement, and there was no guarantee there'd even be a replacement at that point. I see very little likelihood that scum even goes looking for that info on a town Charles in the first place, let alone shares it with everyone.

Maybe I overestimated the strength of that cred a bit, but that did affect my play once Pav came out with it. I'd been hoping to take that to later in the game when numbers were fewer, and having a pretty solid town reason on someone could swing the game. I'm typically the kind of indecisive person who is pretty much always around until endgame so if that stayed un-realized for a while it could be a significant advantage. Then Pav came along and blurted it out. Which made sure scum would be aware of it too, and that didn't seem like the kind of player they'd want to take to endgame. So I promptly started to try to damage control by both making it a big deal and sweeping it under the rug. Make it a big deal in the sense that trying to claim that credit is of course going to make people less willing to give it. And sweep it under the rug in that I wanted others to keep their views under wraps. Make the scum guess how much credit everyone is giving me there.

And, realizing that I would be a good nightkill because of that cred, I also started playing up my fears of being nightkilled. Hence all the "OMG Pav is trying to get me nightkilled" stuff. I was kind of hoping scum would see that and take it as a sign that I was worried because I had a PR, and make it even more likely that I'd draw the nightkill and keep it off of real ones. Also, it was funny to contemplate the idea that I would get nightkilled. That never happens unless I have a PR. :lol: So I probably kept the joke up a bit longer than needed, but why let a good joke die? Messing with Pav is fun. :P

So here we get to D2, we find we don't have much left in the way of useful PR, so I still wanted to try to keep the scum guessing what they can do about me. So I've maybe been messing around a bit more than I would normally. This has also been a significant reason I've been down on BBT. Unlike the rest of you, BBT knows that I am not scumpartners with them. I've been figuring that if BBT is town they should realize I'm most likely town too. If BBT is town and thinks I'm scum, BBT must think I'm really bold or really dumb to make that post clearing the Charles suspicion off their slot. So I've been trying to gauge what they think of me. I've been figuring if they're scum they're not so concerned about the implications there, so BBT scumreading me makes me more inclined to do so in return. I'm probably a little off base with that. And there was always the chance that BBT has been playing up the suspicion of me to keep that indeterminate air around my suspicion level, like I've been thinking others have been doing. It's hard for even me to tell how much of everyone's suspicion of me is genuine and how much is played up, so if you've been playing this game with me wanting to see if we can bait out some scum after me, good job, I think it's working. :lol:


Ok I don't actually have that much more to say, except that you're still making way too much of me townlocking you. A townlock from one player, especially a player who is at the top of nobody's town list, does not actually make you town in the eyes of the rest of the town or a good target in and of itself for a scum kill. All I did was hang a lampshade on what was there for everybody else to see
I've been figuring that if BBT is town they should realize I'm most likely town too.
I mean, the entire reason this game -- and I don't mean *this* game, I mean mafia generally -- works is because other players can't always tell when town is town (see d1 of most games)
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Post Post #1139 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:16 pm

Post by Elements »

I actually really like 1128 and 1129, they've boosted my Aureal read up quite a bit
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #1140 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:34 pm

Post by Pavowski »

Cactus not really saying anything to save itself here

Nobody really arguing about it

Not sure how to feel about that
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Post Post #1141 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:41 pm

Post by Elements »

I think given the intent to hammer Cactus and co scum are just letting it happen to not given anything else away
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Post Post #1142 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:27 pm

Post by Pavowski »

In post 1133, IdleMuse wrote:Brick, are you still keen on pushing a Pav wagon today?
Maybe this was the attempt to divert
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Post Post #1143 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:49 pm

Post by cactus »

In post 1134, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Well, Aureal and Cactus cross voting sure is interesting.

Intent to hammer Cactus
Why haven't you answered my questions? We were both voting Aureal yesterday, but now you're turning around after I'm at E-1
This is so opportunistic
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Post Post #1144 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:51 pm

Post by cactus »

In post 1140, Pavowski wrote:Cactus not really saying anything to save itself here
Can you respond to post #? I want you to elaborate on what you mean by unfair reasoning
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Post Post #1145 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:54 pm

Post by cactus »

In post 1139, Elements wrote:I actually really like 1128 and 1129, they've boosted my Aureal read up quite a bit
Can you tell me which part of those posts you like?
Whenever I look at Aureal's posts I just think she's fluffing her ISO up just to make herself look good.
I can never see the development of Aureal's reads
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Post Post #1146 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:09 pm

Post by Aureal »

In post 1132, Elements wrote:
In post 1056, Aureal wrote:
In post 1046, Elements wrote:inb4aurealvotesme
Sounds like a challenge.

VOTE: Elements

UNVOTE:
What was the point of this? Or have I already asked that?
What was the point of your post?
BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm surprised Elements is voting Cactus.
It's a little surprising at first, but it makes sense.
Pavowski wrote:Ok I don't actually have that much more to say, except that you're still making way too much of me townlocking you. A townlock from one player, especially a player who is at the top of nobody's town list, does not actually make you town in the eyes of the rest of the town or a good target in and of itself for a scum kill. All I did was hang a lampshade on what was there for everybody else to see
Maybe I phrased that a little awkwardly. It's not what you did. You calling it out promptly just made it a lot more awkward for me. And made you significantly scummier in my book, because you did it for no reason other than being able to say "hey look, I'm participating by giving a read!" If I happen to have someone pretty well townbinned for good reasons, I'm not gonna go bringing it up when it's not relevant, or they may well get targeted by scum. I wasn't at risk of getting wagoned and it was still day 1 so having one player townbinned isn't really all that useful. I wondered if maybe you were wanting to make sure people knew about it so making a nightkill on me wouldn't seem like "oh she said she was suspicious of Pav, maybe we'd better look at him."
I've been figuring that if BBT is town they should realize I'm most likely town too.
I mean, the entire reason this game -- and I don't mean *this* game, I mean mafia generally -- works is because other players can't always tell when town is town (see d1 of most games)
Yup, but you can make some reasonable guesses sometimes. Or go down the WIFOM hole. :lol:
Elements wrote:I actually really like 1128 and 1129, they've boosted my Aureal read up quite a bit
You so funny. :lol:
Pavowski wrote: Maybe this was the attempt to divert
Maybe this was the attempt to not get prodded while we sit around waiting for the day to end.
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Post Post #1147 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:29 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

VOTE: Cactus
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #1148 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:40 pm

Post by Brickwalll »

Nooo, I was still keen on a Pav wagon. Think I would have done Aureal over Cactus though, still don't thinkcactus is scum.

Anyways, we will see now the hammer is dropped.

Will do some reading over the night phase. Sorry I missed the end of D2, was working and then afterwork drinks. Logged in this morning to do last minute play but the hammer has fallen.
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Post Post #1149 (ISO) » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:40 pm

Post by Brickwalll »

Pav vote*

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