Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Datisi]

VOTE COUNT 1.07

WITH 17 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 9 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 1 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-02-17 17:05:00).

execution

LYCANFIRE [4]:

Klick, Firebringer, Alisae, Cat Scratch Fever

ARISTEIA [3]:

SirCakez, Black, Mistyx

REDFF [2]:

Gimli, furtiveglance

KLICK [1]:

Morning Tweet

VP BALTAR [1]:

petapan

MORNING TWEET [1]:

Taly

ASRI TEROKA [1]:

VP Baltar

ALISAE [1]:

redFF

SIRCAKEZ [1]:

Aristeia

TALY [1]:

Lycanfire

NOT VOTING [1]:

Asri Teroka

mod notes

VP Baltar V/LA 13.2. - 17.2.
All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
This is a mod note.

[Aristeia]

Now ur just personality reading him

there are differences between his personality while town/scum

[Firebringer]

The only thing about cakez i agree with is scum cakez pushes things he thinks he can get away with as scum. Other than that, I don't see how town cakez doesn't just bad push you here given:
A) I don't think cakez remembers past games with you
B) I think cakez skims and is prone to make surface level reads/takes and therefore saw u as being "fluffy" and pushes u.

So everything here lines up with Cakez town to me.
He is more prone about giving his opinions that don't look to me like its trying to impress or care what others think. He isn't trying to appeal to anyone in particular. He is just throwing his reads at the wall of this game and doing so badly imo.

Cakez town

[SirCakez]

The only thing about cakez i agree with is scum cakez pushes things he thinks he can get away with as scum. Other than that, I don't see how town cakez doesn't just bad push you here given:
A) I don't think cakez remembers past games with you
B) I think cakez skims and is prone to make surface level reads/takes and therefore saw u as being "fluffy" and pushes u.

So everything here lines up with Cakez town to me.
He is more prone about giving his opinions that don't look to me like its trying to impress or care what others think. He isn't trying to appeal to anyone in particular. He is just throwing his reads at the wall of this game and doing so badly imo.

Cakez town

ok but ari's content and reactions have actually been garbage, this isn't a surface level read

[SirCakez]

fire I trust u
why is Ari town here?

[furtiveglance]

I think Aristeia is towny

I can't see an agenda to her play

[Aristeia]

maybe you are better at reading cakes than I am

we will see

[Firebringer]

ok but ari's content and reactions have actually been garbage, this isn't a surface level read

i don't feel like arguing with you on ari town.
Just know i don't agree with ur analysis at all.

I think its pretty bad and ive seen plenty of things from ari i like.

[SirCakez]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

[SirCakez]

ok but ari's content and reactions have actually been garbage, this isn't a surface level read

i don't feel like arguing with you on ari town.
Just know i don't agree with ur analysis at all.

I think its pretty bad and ive seen plenty of things from ari i like.

like what just say it it doesn't have to be an argument

[Firebringer]

like what just say it it doesn't have to be an argument

ill make an aristelia town case tomorrow or something. i am going out with the fam in like 20 minutes.

[Aristeia]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

in what way

use your words

[redFF]

This one thinks, with Lycan of the Fire and Klick already having affirmed their part in this, that there is value in keeping the third a mystery?

For now, yes?

why would that be valuable

[redFF]

i think one of cakez/lycan being scum is a decent shout

[Aristeia]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

in what way

use your words

I want to be very clear what I am asking.

1)Which previous games are you comparing to and how is the behavior different
2) Why is this behavior difference mean that I am likely to be mafia.

Because both thoughts in 1) and 2) need to go through your head to decide "ari is likely mafia because she is behaving differently"

so spell out exactly how you came to this conclusion.

[Aristeia]

cakes this should be memory recall since these thoughts went through your head already.

you should not need to pull up past games and start looking for differences

just a few sentences about your thoughts is fine. I am trying to verify you had any.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Ari is town, even if she did confuse me with the other cat

[Firebringer]

Okay just a minute argument about ari town before i go and without even referencing early content:

Look at how aristeia responds to scumreads on her:
If you agree with my basic premise that she responds in a way that suggest she doesn't like the read itself and doesn't believe people should be scumreading her

I would posit that scum her would be more focused on arguing over reasons for scumreading. Where here its more like aristeia doesn't think people should be scumreading her. Or at least in case of cakez it shouldn't happen. (mistyx kind of defeats purpose)

Maybe this is all just garbage analysis but the way in which argued is more on the read itself means more to me than the arguing reasons. Because scum can be upset about the REASONS they are thought of as scum or caught or w/e. They usually not upset or care about the actual act of figuring them out so they attack and fight a reason because they think its dumb/ridiculous etc.

I feel like ari cares and is fighting the idea itself of her being scum. Which screams way more town upset about misread than scum being caught for wrong reasons or w/e.

Anyways this is my ted talk and i shall see you all tomorrow.

[Black]

Spoiler: Mild furtive case

I'm getting bad vibes from furtive after finally giving myself time to ISO him. There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari, and now I'm not so sure about Fire.

actually yeah I think [Aristeia's] early progression on Fire was towny

This is furtive's most recent comment, and what led me to do the ISO in the first place. He made this revelation after I questioned him about his reaction to SirCakes voting for Aristeia (#638). Furtive came running to Ari's defense in #638 once SirCakes voted for her for "having 0 town posts in her entire ISO" (#611). This was the first time Furtive has communicated any reads on Ari, even though he was given the chance to earlier in the game. I'll get to that in a second. But first I want to emphasize here that Furtive's reasoning for calling SirCake's vote "unfair" is that Ari in fact

did

have a town post in her ISO, and it was her first post in the game, during the joke phase: #66

This is the only town post Furtive can reference in all of Ari's ISO? This leads me to the beginning of the game. Furtive got some pretty unjustified heat for not providing any reads, but when he defended himself, he said he didn't have any: #282. Here Furtive says he "didn't have anything to comment on" and "if I see something I'll say something." We now know he thought the Ari vote on Fire was towny, so why wouldn't he say something about it here? His only read in #282 is that his initial vote against Fire was serious and that "Fire would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town." Keep in mind here that Furtive admits he thinks Fire is kind of scummy.

Furtive's next notable move is to switch his vote from Fire to the Klick wagon in #303. Furtive's vote is the 4th vote on the wagon Klick wagon, which was started by Fire, followed by Aristeia and Morning Tweet. The scumread against Klick was essentially non-existent and boiled down to Klick guessing MT's intentions correctly. It's strange to me that Furtive would vote Klick here, especially considering he should have gotten a townread from Klick from #81. Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?

You know who else voted for Fire early? RedFF, in #86. What's notable here is that both Klick and redFF appear at the very bottom of Furtive's Scum List. Aristeia is in the middle of the list, despite Furtive admitting recently that he had a townread on her from her Fire vote. I'm confused why Furtive didn't townread Klick and RedFF for their Fire votes. And Fire, interestingly enough, is at the top of the list, despite Furtive being suspicious of him earlier. The only thing that changed was Fire's weak case against Klick. That was apparently enough to move Fire from the bottom of the list to the top?

Furtive's Scum List:

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

I don't like this flip on Fire, especially when both Fire and Furtive have openly discussed how Fire would play as scum. And it just so happens Fire is actually playing that way. Bold is my emphasis:

I don't know - I had thoughts, my vote on Firebringer wasn't a joke, but it's not the strongest read either -

just that I think he would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town

. Whether or not I 'go hard' also can depend on my current mood and schedule as well

We would all do better to take an internet forum game less seriously. I approve of this mentality.
I can also vibe with the not letting team down thing,

its the only thing that kind of sucks about playing scum. But then I eventually figure my team wants to have more fun than to win or at least they should. So then i don't feel so bad about when im playing bad as scum

if everyone took my philisophy of playing mafia and just ran with it.
Everyone would enjoy the game.

But then the number of scum claiming in games would probably break the game

and we would all be hunting players who try to even pretend to be townie. Would either be horrifying or interesting to see.

I found these three comments interesting. Furtive admits that Fire would enjoy posting the way he did at the beginning of the game moreso if he were scum. And Fire admits that he doesn't like to let his team down when playing scum, but that his team would rather have fun than win, so he still feels good about doing things like scumclaiming as scum. In the second quote from Fire, he's saying more people would enjoy the game if they scumclaimed as scum. If Fire eventually flips wolf (which, again, I'm not sure of and it probably depends on furtive's/Ari's alignment), this will be read as Fire trying to excuse his early game actions.

Furtive's next big move is to leave the Klick wagon in #590 and vote for redFF, conveniently right after Fire abandons it in #502 to also vote for redFF.

tis i, Radiance

Scumclaim Radiance. Nice.

Klick you're looking radiant

You like to mention Radiant a lot. Is it on your mind from your role PM?

Which Hollow Knight characters do people think are mafia

Are we even allowed to talk about it

I don't like this comment

MT is Town Taly that vote sucks!

I don't like this either. How are you so sure?

Klick is maf, all town wagon, game solved D1

Talking to the town here eh? Trying to get them to wagon Klick off of a swiss-cheese argument?

All of these things, combined with the gut feelings I get from some of his other comments, have made furtive is my top wolf candidate. If I end up being right about this, my attention will turn to Ari and Fire.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Black]

Let's build some wagons

VOTE: redFF

[Firebringer]

I actually like ur scumread on me black.
I don't like ur scumread on Ari.

[Aristeia]

I think Ari is town, even if she did confuse me with the other cat

sorry !

[Firebringer]

Well i guess technically you didn't say you scumread me.
I like the suspicion though. Feels good man

[Firebringer]

If this game turns out im defending scum Ari though.
I will never defend her again.

[Black]

I actually like ur scumread on me black.
I don't like ur scumread on Ari.

If you and furtive are scum, Ari is scum. In my eyes at least