Mafia 2301: Angels and Demons (Game Over)
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I agree with this sentiment, but scumreadingIn post 13, biancospino wrote:
Mech spec is good and all, but how do you suggest we should go on about figuring the mechs on page 1? There is nothing to go on about, so any guess rn will be either garbage; or informed by one's pm, which we shouldn't incentive to be outed just becauseIn post 10, demona wrote:
? yes scums are likely more informed about the mechanics i agree i have played a few bastard games before and moderated others but uh, town also motivated to figure out the mechanics, or at least, this town
demonafor wanting to discuss the mechanics seems really far-fetched.-
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In post 34, GrandpaMo wrote:
ngl drew, demona reminds me of me when im town lol .In post 32, Doctor Drew wrote:
Grandpa doesn't want to be recruited apparently.In post 31, GrandpaMo wrote: eh everyone pivot off demona they are handeling the pressure very well more than i expected
time TO PIVOT TO VOTE: imaginality FOR TOWNREADING ME DAY 1 THATS SCUM AF GOGOGOGOGO
And Demona, you phished for info....that is scummy behavior.
And I would argue that getting super defensive off of one vote on page 1 is not handling pressure well.....not to mention the ate.they might be newand them defending a vote and u pushing them is obviously going to get them to be defensive. think about it from their perspective, u vote them, they question ur vote and then they just joke and play around then 3 people like question them the same thing. this jsut looks like newb!town defense. ik they might be doing this as scum but i highly doubt it especially if they are a newer person.demonais an alt of shiki, she is far from new. She even mentioned it in this game in 24.-
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Is this a meta read?In post 56, Phir wrote: Doctor Drew feel way too aggressive too me. Maybe the type of aggression scum would fake. Grandstanding while pushing on minutae to keep a wagon perpetually viable.-
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At the time of casting it was an RVS vote, but I think I’m happy keeping it post-RVS as well.In post 90, imaginality wrote: @Greeting is your GrandpaMo vote RVS or is there a reason for it?
He hasn't been reading the game thread carefully as shown by him not knowing thatdemonais not a new player. (34)
And made a very weird soft-claim about a post restriction, which, quite frankly, sounds made up.
In post 38, GrandpaMo wrote: also i do have like a post restriction. i wont out yet what it is-
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I asked, because I had the exact same thought, except for me it is a meta read. Well, a weak meta read, as I only played one game with him. His playstyle struck me as noticeably different to Micro 1076 and this heavy fixation onIn post 115, Phir wrote:
Never.In post 114, Greeting wrote:
Is this a meta read?In post 56, Phir wrote: Doctor Drew feel way too aggressive too me. Maybe the type of aggression scum would fake. Grandstanding while pushing on minutae to keep a wagon perpetually viable.demonaat the start felt really bizarre.-
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I actually have two issues with that claim. The first one is what I had said before - it sounds made up.In post 142, Meuh wrote:
Meh I guess soIn post 136, demona wrote:In post 134, demona wrote: because, well, towns do sometimes make things up
and based on my limited interactions, grandpamo does seem more like than some, or maybe even most to make up a post restriction as town to me
of course not as likely as, say, hectic
but more likely than most yeah
But like faking a post restriction there if townie seems like it has 0 upside and plenty of potential backlash
it's just an anti-town action to take and I don't have much benefit of the doubt over it
THough I guess townies do dumb anti-town things all the time regardless, this would just be particularly egregious
Either way I'm not used to playing with anyone having a post restriction. With it being a restriction, there isn't much we can really do to confirm it regardless, right? guess it's a moot point
The second one is the claim itself. What is the purpose of claiming this, and on top of that claiming it so early in Day 1? It is not verifiable and ultimately leaves more questions than answers.
I agree with this too. I have just one game of experience withIn post 136, demona wrote: and based on my limited interactions, grandpamo does seem more like than some, or maybe even most to make up a post restriction as town to me
of course not as likely as, say, hectic
but more likely than most yeahGrandpaMo, but it does seem to fit the pattern in my head.-
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Why?In post 148, biancospino wrote: Eh, it's just the kind of aggression I'd expect from Drew-
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I have read his ISO. My conclusion is that he most likely just dislikes your playstyle (or the way you phrase your posts), because he considers it to be similar to his. Posts 61, 63 and 171 as well as the one you quoted seem to be pointing towards that.In post 255, demona wrote:In post 254, demona wrote:
what do you (greeting) think grandpamo means when he says that i am town but also an inconvenience?
In post 207, GrandpaMo wrote: demona is town but they are starting to be an inconvenience.
like in what way do you think grandpamo finds me to be an inconvenience here? or how might i be inconveniencing grandpamo?
sorry hopefully you see what i am asking
I don't really see this train of thought as relevant or alignment indicative, care to explain why this interests you?-
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Yes, I just like doing it. I don't bold all usernames, only those of players who are in the game (including mine), and only while the game is ongoing. I also usually stop doing this when I'm in the dead thread.In post 257, biancospino wrote:Hey @greeting, is there a reason you're coninstently bolding all usernames?
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Why?
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WhemeStaris obviously a low-effort player, problem is that this might not be AI.-
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?????In post 349, GrandpaMo wrote:I am aTown Guardian Angel
Thee may asketh me any questions in the entire w'rld and I shall guideth thee and s'rve as a guardian by answ'ring bytrue'rfalse!
UNVOTE: GrandpaMo-
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I am perfectly content with voting this for now. Have been trying to get something out that is longer than a few words fromCat Scratch Fever, but failed. I guess some pressure here is warranted.
VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever-
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I would rather go after someone else for the time being and leave sortingIn post 334, demona wrote:In post 322, Greeting wrote:WhemeStaris obviously a low-effort player, problem is that this might not be AI.
i mean,
sure whemestar's engagement so far might very much not be ai, of course, it also might be ai, or it be indicative of a game related but not necessarily alignment related thing, et cetera et cetera
i guess my question would be... what is your plan for determining which?
though whemestar did ask if anyone had any questions and noone asked anything game related so it's not really like its all on whemestar either
not that i would have really known what to ask that might be helpfulWhemeStarfor later.
I didn't know his meta whatsoever, it was judgement solely based on this game's ISO. Which I would say is enough to warrant that judgement.In post 334, demona wrote: also kinda a little curious how you determined the obviousness of this and how it applies across the board to whemestar since i clicked around on a few games and it seemed like there was potentially more substantial engagement from whemestar at various points,-
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Were all the statements that you have made in this thread true?In post 366, GrandpaMo wrote:A lighteth hast evok'd me from above!
i has't been toldeth to clarifyeth
- i can only answ'r up to 25 questions, so asketh wisely!
- thee may only asketh true 'r false questions
- i doth not has't extra inf'rmation on oth'r roles, mod, and mechanics.
- thee may only asketh questions from and about angels and demons game.
- thee can asketh oth'r gen'ral questions only if 't be true t p'rtains to me on who is't and what i am.
- all invalid questions shall not beest did count towards the 25 questions
- i has't gen'ral inf'rmation on the game. I shall useth this inf'rmation to most wondrous guideth thee as town's guardian angel.
Our goal is to surpass the demons of this game yond is ov'rtaking our kingdom. Whom we art the savi'rs, guardians, the ones who is't shall saveth the entirety of life from those of lacking valor shall-
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Let's try this out. I won't ask any more questions after this unless I think of something really good, as apparently we're limited to 25.In post 392, demona wrote: once again maybe not fully honest regarding alignment and purpose and suchbut i do not think grandpamo wholly invented the whole thingbecause why would he have bothered with all of the extraneous bits and how likely is it that he would have thought to give himself a whole bunch of rules he must follow in how he answers
@In post 38, GrandpaMo wrote: also i do have like a post restriction. i wont out yet what it isGrandpaMo: Is this statement made by you true?-
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That phrasing was on purpose, I wanted to know if he's 100% reliable as a player in this game. You're probably right though, might have been better to ask the question about statements made past the post restriction.In post 396, demona wrote:In post 391, Greeting wrote: Great.
i assume 'in this thread' would also entail all of the posts grandpamo made before the questions game as well so it's like, could be the neighbour thing or just about anything else grandpamo was untruthful about-
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I asked him if he had lied in the thread before and yes, he did.In post 409, Enchant wrote: I wanted to ask "can you lie" and it's kinda pointless question because if can, Grandpa will just uh. Lie.-
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I’m kind of thinking what is the point of the Town Guardian Angel at this point whatsoever. We know that he was not fully truthful with us in the thread and so I suppose he can be lying about anything.
Maybe it is a distraction after all and we should focus on something else, unless someone has a strategy as to how to approach this.-
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We could just assume thatIn post 437, demona wrote: and yes, could be lying about anything, could be a distraction, but just ignoring it doesn't really seem like it sorts any of that out?GrandpaMois town for the time being and look elsewhere? I don't know.-
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That is actually a very good point.In post 453, demona wrote: was not evoked by the moderator but it seems possible that someone else told grandpamo to clarify, though i do not know how to make that narrow enough to be one true or false question to ask, like how to determine who it was if not the mod
@GrandpaMo: Is anyone giving you instructions about clarifying things regarding our doubts and questions?-
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This is a prod dodge, however I have been reading the thread, and I can’t say that the fact thatGrandpaMo’s behavior was a farce surprised me.-
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In what world hijacking the thread with a false claim and distracting everyone with a phoney game makes you look more town than scum?In post 514, GrandpaMo wrote:In post 510, demona wrote:it was yeahI wouldn't fake a whole thing that probably in my head makes me look more town than scum...
I could have just not done all that and played my original playstyle and probably get scumread for it because I am a very versatile player that can transform into a playstyle that can be scumread. I know my own playstyle and multiple people in this game can tell you that.-
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I don't remember him saying anything about being suspicious of me either, however I think it's not a big deal. He could have just been seeing me as suspicious in his mind for whatever reason.In post 561, biancospino wrote:
I don't see Phir ever having been "mega sus" of Greeting, so that's a weird thing to have to "move on" fromIn post 556, demona wrote:Spoiler: nest
could you reword this for me, i am having trouble following-
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My thoughts exactly.In post 677, Meuh wrote:Spoiler:
This case just seems to boil down to "Phir's perspective on stuff changed over time" which isn't very convincing
Phir could've communicated these shifts better but stuff like Phir considering Greeting for the towncore and then later saying they had sus on Greeting just feels like someone having gotten some mild scumpings in between those posts
AndMeuhgets a townread from me for this.-
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I am similarly agreeing withIn post 716, Meuh wrote:
yes yes I'm aware, just wanted to add my own reflection on you regarding mindmeld/trustfall since that made me think of it!In post 715, demona wrote:In post 714, Meuh wrote: Hmm yeah this is intriguing
I'm not really surprised at us lining up cause you just generally had good takes in Trust Fall, though I think I should be careful not to write you off entirely cause mindmeld is generally good but doesn't necessitate you being town (esp since I think you have the skillset to fake good takes)
To me you're kind of in that same space in my mind I have in pretty much every game (including trust fall) of like, a town leader with mild good vibes who I'm willing to assume is town for day 1 and analyze more properly in the long run, because it'd be nonsensical to lim them early anyways
i mean, my thoughts lining up with your thoughts here is already evidenced by my posts, like i expressed my distrust of the whemestar wagon, i had already made nearly the same points as you re: phir's posting and grandpamo's case, it's not just me saying 'oh we are mindmelding that's what i think too!' but yes, i suppose in theory from your perspective it could simply be my faking good takes and then you having similar takes, and like i said, this time i am committed to not letting myself get too paranoid about it, just found it interesting to note i guess, sorry
you did post your takes first so it's not a "you copying my reads to create artificial mindmeld" situation (which you could consider with my posting since it came second) on my end, it's just me pondering a bit on our mindset lining up and whether it makes you town here. Though I don't feel like giving it that much thought at the moment cause as I mentioned before, I'm fine with throwing you in the town bin and worrying about that later lol
and yeah just noting little pieces of thought processes is generally good to do, it's a helpful tool when it comes to sorting and I myself make posts of that sort to make myself easier to sortMeuhanddemonahas made some valid point and good contributions to solving the game, so I am happy with writing both of you off as town for the time being.-
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I didn't noticeIn post 766, Doctor Drew wrote:
Poor take imoIn post 765, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: Does it look like enchant is trying to find scum at any point in this game?Cat Scratch Fevertrying to find scum at any point in this game either.-
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Hmm.In post 788, Meuh wrote:
Okay yeah Imaginality can be town, love this postIn post 784, imaginality wrote: VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever E-2
If there was scum on WhemeStar it's probably this vote switch to Enchant because I don't think scum!Drew would switch to Mo (if Mo was a likely mislim that would've kicked off after the fake PR stuff).
And... eh I guess scum!bianco might see town!Phir as a possible mislim but CSF's vote on Enchant seems the most likely to be scum trying to get a different mislim going after the first one stalled.
The rolefishing seems bad (narrows down who might be doc, also the 'weird or normal roles' question could help scum with faking claims. Specifically I don't think we should say if there are thematic flavour elements in our PMs or not). But it does seem, particularly demona asking about doc, too blatant for scum to feel comfortable doing it.
This is a pretty weird game to try to read, it feels like listening to people talking underwater. I wouldn't be opposed to limming WhemeStar still (I think the flip would be more informative than waiting to get a read from their posts) but I was suspicious of CSF earlier and the switch to Enchant has pinged me again.
What do you love about that post?-
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Someone gave me a one shot Watcher power. I was watchingdemonaovernight and she was visited byMeuh.
VOTE: Meuh-
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Yes. And the result was you visiting
demona. She was not visited by anyone else.-
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Please ignoreIn post 981, Meuh wrote:
Yeah this is just not trueIn post 980, Greeting wrote:Yes. And the result was you visiting
demona. She was not visited by anyone else.
Can anyone attest to giving Greeting a power? I imagine there was no power givenMeuh, she is role-fishing right now. Just vote her out, thank you.-
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This is nonsensical. I have a guilty onIn post 993, imaginality wrote: I think we need to lim Greeting here. If Greeting flips town we know Meuh is scum. If Greeting flips mafia great! If Greeting flips mime, ehhh not so great buuuuuuttt....Meuh, not the other way around. Just eliminate her.
Can someone please tell me what is the rationale behind me being mafia and doing this? IfMeuhwere to flip town, and she will not, I would go down next anyway.-
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Anyway, I am off, will be back earlier. Be suspicious of anyone who is trying to get me overMeuhtoday.
The claim I made is 100% serious. If you think more deeply about this, there is no good scum motivation behind me doing this.-
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I am down for this. What I had shared is the result that I got, and unless I was lied to, or the result was tampered with,In post 1010, biancospino wrote: We decide today to vote him out tomorrow, as blackmail. If he is mime and not dead, they are voted out and scum lose (toghether with town, but scum don't care about that part). So if he's mime, scum must kill them unless they have reasons to believe there are 3 mimesMeuhismafia.-
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If something is wrong with the result that I got then I might as well just vote myself out on Day 3, because a power that would give me a wrong Watcher shot, or a power that somehow falsifies the result (given that whomever falisifed that shot knew that I received the shot) would mean the setup is broken, even for a bastard game.-
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I received the power at the very beginning of Night 1, so I would assume that this power was given out during Day 1.In post 1020, GrandpaMo wrote: but how will they be given this power? through the day im assuming -- thats the only time.-
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Why does this even matter?In post 1053, GrandpaMo wrote:In post 1052, Doctor Drew wrote: Lol, check the wording of that answer.
Told you,.you can't trust the mod.@mod does that mean in a hypothetical situation, if person x gave something to person y mid game, will you notify person y as soon as possible during midgame?-
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Oh, I was just greatly annoyed by the fact that for once I made great use of my role by catching scum red-handed and some of the town want to eliminate me for this.In post 1029, biancospino wrote:
What's up with the defeatism?In post 1024, Greeting wrote: If something is wrong with the result that I got then I might as well just vote myself out on Day 3, because a power that would give me a wrong Watcher shot, or a power that somehow falsifies the result (given that whomever falisifed that shot knew that I received the shot) would mean the setup is broken, even for a bastard game.
I can understandMeuhtrying to save herself, but not players likeimaginalityor the rest who seem completely unimpressed by my result.-
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Anyways, afterMeuh’s red flip, I will probably be killed off on Night 2, so I would look intoimaginalitynext, judging by his unusually sceptical reaction towards my claim.-
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I cannot quote PMs directly, but I chose to watchIn post 1059, GrandpaMo wrote: Greeting, what was your result again? And what did it say?demona, and the result I got was that she was visited byMeuh.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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I was not told that I received a role ability „at the beginning of Night 1”.In post 1056, GrandpaMo wrote:because you were told that you were given the power in the beginning of night 1.
I want to know how that is possible -- if during night 1, someone gave you a power and you received it during night 1. that just wouldn't make sense and. I don't believe that just happens in a normal mafia game, bastard or not.
I just want to know how the procedure of receiving something works either during the night or day.
and assuming what the mod had said, that means if you were given the power in the beginning of night 1 that means someone gave you that power night 1 , which idk how that works which can mean u are lying
At the beginning of Night 1 I got the information that I have received a one-shot Watcher ability. The information did not state when was this ability given out or by whom.
I still don’t really see how or why is this relevant, I just received the power and used it.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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I don't really care. I've played withIn post 1081, Phir wrote: Greeting, how do you feel bout that Enchant vote?Enchantnumerous times and he's always hunting me for whatever reason so his vote on me is probably NAI. He has never been very useful in game-solving either. Kinda like a slightly more talkative Not_Mafia.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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For the record, I am against whomever gave me the one-shot Watcher power revealing themselves.-
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You know what could also confirm me? Voting outIn post 1127, GrandpaMo wrote:
this can confirm you. if no one outs, then it could be a possibility that you're lying.In post 1124, Greeting wrote: For the record, I am against whomever gave me the one-shot Watcher power revealing themselves.Meuh. I will be conftown and dead on Night 2 and whomever gave me the power will not be outed.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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I have not been interacting with your posts, because, unfortunately, based on the result that I have, you are 100% scum.In post 1132, Meuh wrote: Any sort of want to clarify on his supposed watcher check gets pushed back on, all he wants is me dead and nothing more
You are correct in that all I want today is you dead. And I do not want whomever gave me this ability to claim.
I have a red check on you which leaves no doubts, you are the only person who targeteddemonalast night. And she dropped dead.
The only possible reasons that this might be wrong is either the ability itself gives a wrong check or that my result was somehow falsified. None of which really make any sense. If we look at the ability that gives out wrong checks without considering which faction has this ability, it is very clear that it is far more likely to disproportionately harm town than mafia, which would make the game very unbalanced. If the result was somehow falsified, someone who did this must have known that I would be due to receive it or that someone would be giving it out. Which, overall, sounds very unlikely, especially if we are talking about Day 1.
The above is why, in 1024, I said that if my result is wrong then the game setup is broken. Even for a bastard game, the game is supposed to be fair and winnable for all factions, and not present an inherent disadvantage to any faction.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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And, like a broken record, I am going to keep pushing for aMeuhelimination until either she is eliminated or I am voted out or killed, because that is the most pro-town thing I can do at the moment. Beyond reasonable doubtMeuhis mafia, period.-
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She was my strongest townread and I thought she would be most likely to get killed on Night 1.In post 1143, Phir wrote: Why watch demona?
-----
I am off for the night.-
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Is the skill in the room with us right now?In post 1147, Phir wrote:
Nah theres luck and there's skill, u and nm have skill.In post 1126, Enchant wrote: Broken clocks are right once per day.-
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At this moment I am townreading only yourself. Maybe townleaningIn post 1163, Phir wrote: Greeting are you able to tell me who you think is town here?Doctor Drewas well.
I thinkGrandpaMois the second mime, and we should avoid eliminating him for that reason. There is a slightly smaller chance that the second mime isWhemeStar, if it’sGrandpaMothen he’s probably town.
Enchantis a null read.
imaginalityandbiancospinoare scummy.
I don’t know how many scums are there though. It’s possible that there are two, given that we have at least two mimes in the game as well, in which case the second scum is between the aforementioned two.-
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There hasn’t been a single post byimaginalitythat I liked, and he makes sense as a scum partner forMeuh.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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Good morning! Looks like we have a vig, thanks for taking care ofMeuh.
VOTE: imaginality-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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Ngl it’s hilarious that mafia gave me the very power which I used to uncover them-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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I honestly don't know why they chose me. There was noIn post 1243, biancospino wrote: First of all why would they not give a power to themselves; and the word bargain implies that something is expected back. Greeting did sign a contract with a Demon after allquid pro quowith the power too, I got it and did not have to give anything in return.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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We have 11 players in the game.In post 1237, GrandpaMo wrote: still tho, I would surprised why phir is dead and not a confirmed like greeting. which wanna make me think greeting is an minority faction that mafia is informed of
We have at least 2 mafia. We also have at least 2 mimes. Which leaves 7 town. Do you really think it is possible for yet another faction to exist?
I think it's already pretty much confirmed that I'm not aligned with the mafia.
If I were mime, why would I help town the way I did? I was put at E-1 on Day 2, I could have just hammered myself and won, instead I fought for theMeuhwagon. And right now I am in the position where I am more likely to be night killed rather than voted out, which would be an unfavourable position for a mime.-
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Anyway, I still think that you're (GrandpaMo) a mime.
Reasons:
- I think that you wanted your Day 1 gambit to backfire and result in you being voted out for making false claims and confusing everyone;
- I think that your actual power is a role which is designed to weaken the mime faction by making it harder for them to win, and it makes sense that a mime would have that role.-
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Greeting he/him; they/themMafia Scumhe/him; they/them
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