Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[sheepsaysmeep]

Day 2 Votecount 2

Cook (4):

iamveryhappy, ItalianoVD, Flower, KatyKimFanClub

ItalianoVD (2):

Cook, Something_Smart

Not Voting (4):

Invisibility, fireisredsir, T3, Black

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

There are (expired on 2023-06-30 13:10:00) remaining.

[T3]

Catching up

[fireisredsir]

i guess nothing interesting happened

[Black]

lol

Maybe he had an aneurysm reading all the mech posts

[Black]

I kinda just wanna sheep fire today tbh

[iamveryhappy]

kk
fire didn't even vote

[Black]

What's the rush?

Happy did you finally roll scum on this forum?

[iamveryhappy]

no I'm pointing out the obvious

[Black]

no I'm pointing out the obvious

I think you might be scum. Your posting this game is a lot less troll-y and I can see that type of tone shift being a result of you getting a red PM

[iamveryhappy]

there's this thing known as trying?

[Cook]

potential solve: flower/italiano/iamvh

[iamveryhappy]

well I'm cowonftown so that's out of discussion

[Black]

there's this thing known as trying?

I have a feeling you're the type of player to try harder when scum

[iamveryhappy]

here read this
https://ps-mafia.proboards.com/thread/1 ... out-thread
I tried here as town and got really townread after that
I stopped trying after that tho bc school
there's another game where I got killed n1 and tried p hard as well
but it's still going, but offsite, @mod permission to post the link?

[Black]

I'm not really interested in your self meta tbh

[iamveryhappy]

yu just used it?

[iamveryhappy]

there's this thing known as trying?

I have a feeling you're the type of player to try harder when scum

I just feel motivated after getting lost in a bunch of trees

[Flower]

no
I think it's more on the side of 3-shot
2-shot seems too weak, no modifier seems too strong
this game lasts approx. 5 days

The vig is either 2-shot to keep the game on odds or 1-shot and there's a townie with the Weak modifier to keep the game on odds

He should already have experience with someone carelessly adding a Town Vigilante and needing to suggest some sort of counterbalance and this is making me feel like he's twisting mech for an agenda

Can you link to a review where this happened?

I would never suggest this as a counter to vig. I don't think Isis or Koba would either. But I've been wrong before.

I just checked, turns out you are technically correct in the sense that setups with Vig's are either passed with minimal modifications because the setup works first try or the setup doesn't work and the Vig gets dropped. Given that we've had a vig shot though...

Anyways this is distracting from the actual problem at hand when it comes to sorting Cook, namely

---

MECH ENDS HERE

It is indisputable fact that if Cook was actually trueclaiming 1-Shot Bulletproof Rolecop D1 she's scum here, to suggest otherwise would imply that Ausuka/Flower/happy/Italiano are all wrong/lying scum. Given that's the case the mech doesn't actually matter. What we actually have to figure out is the following:

Does it make more sense for Cook to have trueclaimed d1 and then changed her claim to one that doesn't instantly get her limmed after Ausuka flipped green and the Vigilante shot Asri?

OR

Does it make more sense for Cook to have done a gambit d1 by claiming 1-Shot Bulletproof instead of Ascetic?

Keep in mind that if town!Cook

was

gambiting here there's ways to not get shot n1 without claiming a role that's scum in a Vig game (e.g. claiming Even Night/Novice)

-Nameless

[iamveryhappy]

is it just me
or would the vig have a chance to shoot ausuka last night

[Flower]

is it just me
or would the vig have a chance to shoot ausuka last night

Vig shooting Ausuka and scum shooting Cook is technically possible but think about it from the Vig's perspective:

• Pretty much every single person d1 was in agreement that if there's a Vig then Cook is scum
  
• Vig therefore assumes Cook is scum
  
• Can't shoot Cook because 1-Shot BP
  
• Shoot a likely partner
  
• Asri spends the entirety of d1 hard defending Cook

I think it's pretty likely that Asri was the vig shot and that the vig was trying to partner hunt

-Nameless

[Flower]

scum shooting

Asri

EBWOP

[sheepsaysmeep]

i prodded T3. note that posts such as 2076 aren't sufficient in terms of the prod timer

[T3]

Spoiler: Page 53

there's something to the consistency of thought process i think

even on the reread there's a lot of places of like, "im confused", "i don't know how to read this", "huh i guess i did react badly here", which to me kind of really tracks with how she appears to be approaching the game in real time as well. it reads more like a townie struggling to feel confident in reading people and not really sure how to approach that, which also checks out with not playing in a while

i would expect scum who is getting pushed mostly for not really scumhunting much to fix that and change approaches. i would expect town who is getting pushed for not really scumhunting to *try* to fix it, but maybe just kinda end up in the same place more or less. and i think the post feels more like the latter to me

like its possible she just doesn't know how to fake scumhunting as scum and this is just her trying her best, but idk, part of me buys it

i did as i was writing this have a moment of thinking that maybe she saw people townreading katy partly off him feeling lost and confused in a towny way, and decided to just lean into that, but im not sure if the requisite self-awareness is there for that

oh yeah true I didn't think about it that way
VOTE: Italiano ok sure Cook gets to live to D2 for that I think

I agree with fire's point and I think the way that Invisibility flipped her read of Cook is pretty towny and shows in my mind that Invis isn't really pushing in agenda.

Something Smart, when you can, can you give a rundown on T3's Black vote and why you think it was made?

Weird request. Especially since it seems like T3 talked very little about Black before the vote, and T3 is basically a black box anyway as far as I'm concerned.

So I don't really feel like speculating what Black said that caused T3 to not like her, I think that would just be stabbing in the dark.

^ this guy has not been reading the game and probably just cntrl-f'd "VOTE: Black" in my ISO.

Spoiler: 54

I only said that because you really can't use townmeta/scummeta on me
reasons are below
1. I haven't rolled scum yet
2. You don't even know my normal meta
3. no trolling is not my normal meta, it just comes together as a deal like you know the sauces from the chicken mcnuggets
4. I can change meta by reading through shit ppl like snekwaza said
5. just hunt normally

This is a scumslip

I wonder if this interaction (and iavd and Ausuka's in general) are opposite team or a little theatrical?

iavh reminds me a lot of how I used to play mafia when I was a kid playing on MU. IMO the best way to read iavh should be through tone and intent rather than content.

Spoiler: 55

what's the logic on the t3 wagon again

I can't really make a case but like - he doesn't feel genuine to me and I don't believe his read on asri or me or SS. It all just feels, like, too underdeveloped and convenient. Especially the read on asri which was during the whole "POLICY LIM ASRI" movement, it just felt deeply wrong

FWIW I do not remember the policy lim Asri movement
Meh, this is understandable. I don't hate this case.

Spoiler: 56

nothing lol

Spoiler: 57

Spoiler: 1000-1100

I fell asleep last night.

Ok, so I decided to iso Black since I thought I would gain a lot from their interactions w/ Ausuka and Asri? It doesn't seem like I really have any support wrt iamveryhappy so I don't think there's a point reading again. I also chose Black because they're one of the few players that had an opinion of me this game and I just wanted to see if I could find enough context behind it.

92: RVS
207: I find myself nodding at a lot of these comments. I wonder if they could be interpreted as Black buddying (am I even using this word right?) HPE since it starts with reasons for suspicion and ends with a slight townread.
208 221 So this is where Black townreads Ausuka and the table is set for trouble to begin. I don't think it's unreasonable for Black to townread here, but I've talked previously about how disagreeing doesn't necessary mean opposing teams and so I don't know if agreeing makes someone automatically towny. I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.
264 Here Black responds to Asri doubting her read on Ausuka.
298 I think I missed this post when it was originally made. I really love this post because Black is really aware of the change from Asri's perspective and is confused by it. I personally wouldn't have brought it up as town and it's at this point in my reading that I know that Black is a really good player who from my perspective is leaning town.
478 This post in addition to 495 I interpret as town leaning because at the time there was no significant reason for Black to change their view of Ausuka. It could be I'm missing something because of how I'm only reading Black's posts. I think it's Black's genuine attempts to create a clear picture of what's going on.
585 So I asked for Black to read Italiano and Black returns with a scumread. It's interesting because basically right after this there's a lot of heat on Black and right before it there's a third vote on Cook? I don't think it's a distraction post or anything though because there were other spots in the game (like when Cook had 5 votes or something) where Black could have made any sort of move. In fact, they were very supportive of the wagon on Cook.
670 I really like how Black plays defense this game. I feel like if I were mafia I would be pushing harder on Italiano or Ausuka here but Black is very inquisitive and her interactions with Cook in later posts make a lot of sense to me. In particular, she comes across as kind of standoff-ish which tonally makes sense? I could just be so wrong with all of my reads here y'all.
750 I would have the same reaction as Black here to Asri's comments. I think if anything this game Black has been very coherent and explained their reasoning. She has been very consistent which makes the comment that Asri is seeing what they want to see exactly what town would say imo.
844 Does it make sense for Black to not have a read on Cook after interacting with Cook a few posts earlier? I think I buy that because at the time they mentioned how Cook was a null read and I don't think anything really happened besides some clarification of things between the two?
922 I don't get this post for two reasons. One, because what would the scumteam be then if it's both Cook and Asri? Doesn't Black have enough scumreads? Two, because Black mentioned how they thought Asri was probably annoying town earlier in the day (791) and there was no pressure on Asri at the time?
789 Lol'ed

Adding it all up, I really do think Black is town. There are multiple factors that I talked about but the sense I get from her posts is just that at the end of the day she has been trying to reduce the amount of chaos going on and has interacted in reasonable ways with too many people. Because of my opinion from this, I kind of think Asri is kind of town too?

Of course the first piece of content is a ISO wallpost. Pain

208/221 - Both of these posts are pretty scummy to me. 208's the kind of thing where I don't get how it'd lead to a mindmeld tr when it seems pretty NAI and 221's filler as hell
264 - Yeah that makes 208 look better
298 - Solid post
750 - Asri's literally voting for Black there lmao

I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.

Why is that very town of black?

Also @black, i forgot to bring this up earlier but why would this game have 2 scum?

It was the most "town" reasoning for townreading someone at that point in the game that I can think of. So it leans town to me. I'm not sure if that makes sense. My main distinction was that Black says she agrees with your thought process, which is different than agreeing with your conclusion. I think that's exactly what I was sort of trying to do in my entire post which is look to see if Black's actions make sense from a thought process standpoint.

Solid post

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

i don't always find engagement to be the easiest way to sort people

with ausuka

i hit submit early

but i was gonna say that i thought it would be more useful to wait and watch and see how things developed

i have found lately that with people i know well (not all i guess, but some) im actually generally better at reading them if i am more disconnected from them, like when reading from spec or something

I guess that's fair. I think I'm just not a fan of how you two have interacted with each other, which really is a lack of interaction. You are both in each other's "sus" category yet it doesn't seem like either of you are that interested in solving the other

I'll townbin Black for this, especially if Arsi flips green. Black's normally got that pretty laid back neutral vibe and if she's scum here then votes wise I don't see the point of setting this up as scum when there's like 2-3 other people with actual wagons going

Spoiler: 1100-1200

1101 - Wait did Italiano already claim? Can someone post the claims we already had? Anyways ok post but having read absolutely nothing from Italiano the section on him feels very
1117 - I haven't read any of happys posts this game but +town
1154 - Based also I feel called out
1157 - Huh?

Anyways I'm just gonna sheep Black here, pretty sure she's town and her reads are usually on point

VOTE: Cook

-Nameless

Hmm. This is interesting. If Cook is scum, it could clear this spot fmpov.

...why?

Oh bulletproof rolecop claim from Cook? That’s like the most mafia role you can claim.

I’m not good with mechanics so I’m not gonna try to figure out anything out. I don’t think the claim changes much for me because of the fact it is a very scum-oriented role, both of them actually.

This post felt pretty genuine.

Spoiler: 58

Flower's vote must be finely scrutinized Erynis did not fully feel like town despite many people seeming okay with everything here.

This one is unimpressed by T3. T3 is parked on smart but not hunting. T3 is pulling the 'Black is town card' which at this point is a great way to discredit Ausuka regardless of Black's alignment.

T3 seems happy with the Cook elim and stays away from thread to draw no further sus. Already made the retroactive Cook can be scum read for self preservation here.

Probably someone looking to hammer Cook.

I have been V/LA since Saturday or so. I understand the rest of the case, but can you please explain how that is discrediting Ausuka?

No. We should just stay on Cook.

No way we are going to vote out an investigative claim Day 1 no matter how scummy they might be.

This one isn't in the mood for a green flip here.

T3 basically is either a vanilla or a scum at this point. Italiano and Invisibility are way too careful seeming. Black probably still feels town but this one would rather maintain distance from their takes for a while. There is still that one incident though, but there's something similar with cook so this one leaves it there.

Flower's entrance really did seem town but if Cook is town there is much to dissect. The Erynis slot turning on Cook merits analysis down the line, this one decided not now.

Hu Tao might be townier than Something smart. Merely for activity at this point, Asri is giving cheap deads. T3 basically a gopher, and this one feels would be a bit more involved if they had a powerful town role.

In my last town game I had 45 posts in 45 pages, I was Town Vigilante. Game before that was 106 posts in 90 pages. Here I've had 33 posts in 53 pages.

Spoiler: 59

Also how would they be sorted along the line?

Iamveryhappy will become ridiculously easy to read as either alignment as the game progresses.

Maybe for people who have played with him, but not for me.

Happy has been readforming, gamecrafting, questioning.

You let T3 slide.

This one has never played with happy but has played with T3, just so you know.

Do you think that my play is similar between Frog Images and here? You said that I would be more engaged if I was town PR, but when you played with scum!me I was a very high poster and was widely townread. (253 posts in 73 pages)

I'll be back.

[fireisredsir]

oh god can you just read and then give like a summary of thoughts instead

[fireisredsir]

he did this when scum in warrior cats and dragged it out for like dayyyysss