Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Roden]

Oh whoops, I forgot I changed my vote already, thought I still had my vote on you

VOTE: Merlyn

I need to go to bed

[biancospino]

Votecount 1-IV

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

flavor

Spoiler:

execution votes

Merlyn (3):

Aureal (212), Cat Scratch Fever (228), Roden (250)

Roden (2):

RCEnigma (20), PenguinPower (87)

RCEnigma (2):

Merlyn (181), meowmeow (229)

Deal With The Devil (1):

SirCakez (89)

PenguinPower (1):

camelCasedSnivy (88)

camelcasedSnivy (1):

Deal With The Devil (182)

Not voting (3):

Random Nurse, HighFlyingDwarf, marcistar

projects votes

Trading Outpost (6):

marcistar (43), camelCasedSnivy (71), PenguinPower (86), SirCakez (90), RCEnigma (159), Roden (187)

Neighborhood Watch (1):

Merlyn (33)

Bureau of Investigations (1):

Aureal (110)

Election Security (1):

Cat Scratch Fever (160)

Marriage (1):

meowmeow (229)

Not voting (3):

Random Nurse, HighFlyingDwarf, Deal With The Devil (231)

notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-08-08 09:00:00).
  
• Random Nurse is V/LA on Thursdays, Frydays and Saturdays.

[RCEnigma]

He can seem listless as town as well, there is something specific I’m waiting on which is why I’m not ready to vote there yet. But I obviously can’t tell you what.

[Merlyn]

Spoiler:

Sacrifice ($0)

-- if target Utopian is not an Insurgent, they die and town gets $20,000 more in tomorrow's budget.

vs

Trading Outpost ($20,000)

-- ups the daily budget to $70,000.

theres a difference in wording

sacrifice is a one time gain, trading post is not.

sacrifice is so beyond useless right now, why are we AIMING to get a townie killed when we should be preserving our numbers? sacrifice will be much more useful when we KNOW WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THE $$

Are we just not voting for a lim today then?

My point is sacrifice can just be the regular lim but we get paid for it.

But ehh I’m not gonna argue more for it

HURT: trading post

I find this line of thinking so odd, it's the second time you've brought up not using our lim. Which we could still do even IF we went for sac. VOTE: RCEnigma

Why do you think this is more likely to come from scum versus town with a different opinion on mech?

Something about voluntarily choosing no lim on D1 doesn't feel town to me.

[Merlyn]

*Answer your question at least from Marci's perspective

I'm kinda eh on whether a "self-conscious" tell is AI - I feel like it'd vary from person to person more than anything - but saying Cakez is experienced doesn't really make sense unless you're saying he's too experienced to drop a tell like that

I am just saying it is AI, unless you think Cakez is a noob......then maybe I get the read.

But it is a super weak reason to scum read someone, especially to the point where you are looking for their buddy(s).

And then when getting some pressure from me, start acting dismissive.

Pre Edit: Marci, calling someones in game play isn't mean.....just wait until you see what I am capable of lol.

But I just don't understand how you can make, what seems to me, a solid scum read based off that one Cakez post unless you have some solid meta read on them.

-Drew

Mod

we are voting Snivy as well.....though I think I misspelled their name lol.....so VOTE: Snivy

Fixed

So you pushed Marcistar pretty hard there for a minute. This post doesn't feel like you're sold on her responses, but I notice you've kept the snivy vote. What's the reasoning?

[Merlyn]

VOTE: Merlyn

Not fully understanding the Merlyn votes.

-Drew

2 parts curious what about RCE made her want to vote there when lots of other people were also pushing things that were maybe mechanically suboptimal from her POV

1 part I don't feel like keeping my RVS vote and saw possible momentum elsewhere

I actually can't think of anything else that I find mechanically suboptimal but the idea of a no lim for no reason. What's given you the impression there are lots of people I could be pushing for mech but aren't?

[marcistar]

this cruel cruel game sucks because i can't tell who is partners with cakez yet..

Why Cakez?

Hes doing this thing where hes complaining but doing nothing to fix the problem. It makes it look like hes here, but hes really just doing nothing. Usually people would just not say anything about having no reads unless theyre prompted.

It's a little early for that to be an issue, I think.

I think I only have like two games with him and they were a while back, but in the one I remember most I was scum vs town!Cakez and your description doesn't sound far off from his play there. He caught me pretty early on so I know he can hunt when it comes down to it.

isnt cakez a "good player" though?? drew seems to think so at least!

if drews confident hes town then im confident cakez will come in and give us some hella good reads to make me change my mind!!!

cakez will lead us to victory! everyone needs to believe in our angelic god cakez!!!!

[marcistar]

*Answer your question at least from Marci's perspective

I'm kinda eh on whether a "self-conscious" tell is AI - I feel like it'd vary from person to person more than anything - but saying Cakez is experienced doesn't really make sense unless you're saying he's too experienced to drop a tell like that

I am just saying it is AI, unless you think Cakez is a noob......then maybe I get the read.

But it is a super weak reason to scum read someone, especially to the point where you are looking for their buddy(s).

And then when getting some pressure from me, start acting dismissive.

Pre Edit: Marci, calling someones in game play isn't mean.....just wait until you see what I am capable of lol.

But I just don't understand how you can make, what seems to me, a solid scum read based off that one Cakez post unless you have some solid meta read on them.

-Drew

Mod

we are voting Snivy as well.....though I think I misspelled their name lol.....so VOTE: Snivy

Fixed

So you pushed Marcistar pretty hard there for a minute. This post doesn't feel like you're sold on her responses, but I notice you've kept the snivy vote. What's the reasoning?

maybe because ill just laugh in response LOL

[meowmeow]

hi everyone! i think the flavour for this game looks really really good and i'm looking forward to it. this post will be mostly focused on mechanics, since i missed that discussion; sorry if anyone's tired of that! i hope to keep my mechanical thoughts in this post, even though it will be a bit long, and in the future i can talk about reads and stuff.

first of all, i don't

think

this has been brought up, sorry if i missed it, but it seems likely that many of the projects, if not all, have some kind of drawback which aid the insurgents. this is because, firstly, the mod explicitly " Whatch out, money you spend may end up financing Them." and secondly, if we don't choose projects the insurgency gets given money as compensation, which implies that otherwise not choosing projects would be a viable strategy that the mods want to discourage. unfortunately, i'm not really sure what these would be, but it seems likely that it's mostly just based on the amount of money we spend on the project which is somehow siphoned off by the insurgents, given the use of the word 'financing.' but perhaps there's something else for the 'sacrifice' project?

ok, now onto the projects themselves. i think, since the development projects are the most useful and most discussed, we should start with that. i agree we should be selecting one of these projects as part of our two choices. i think printing press would be a really bad choice; i don't think we need the information that much, and it locks us out of choosing the most powerful development projects today. assassination just doesn't seem great right now, but it's not like anyone wants to do that iirc. i think board of elections is also likely bad; while i don't know this, the projects seem to be based on 'give consensus townreads more voting power' and while the projects unlocked by the board of elections will be more powerful, i imagine they'll be the same type of thing, and this seems less useful than the other projects. this seems controversial, but i think trading outpost is also bad. it might be useful later, but doing it right now seems inefficient. funds we don't use just get given to the insurgents, who will have powers for themselves, and i think we're likely going to struggle to just spend the 60k we have.

so to me, the choice is between bureau of investigations and guildhall. i don't think anyone's brought up guildhall, but i think it's potentially pretty powerful - i think this is where doc and jk actions would go, for example. however, bureau of investigations is likely to give us concrete information. without exact knowledge of what will be unlocked, i don't really know which is the best choice, so i'm happy to go with the consensus on bureau of investigations being better.

apart from development, we get one other projects. honestly, i don't love any of the choices we have. the cost probably doesn't matter, except for blocking us from census, since i imagine the insurgents will get their money regardless of what we do. the choices that seem obviously useless are; mayor election, raffle, autopsy, election security, injuction, inquiry, census. not all of these will be useless for the entire game, but i don't think they merit discussion today.

intelligentia is a potential choice. i think it's intuitive there are just 3 scum; 2 scum seems just... boring, and i don't think we have enough power to justify 4 scum, since this is mostly mountainous and all of the public powers are pretty bad. however, it's possible scum have some sort of creative and/or weird structure - like multiball or a strange factional ability instead of the kill - and the existence of this ability indicates it might not actually be 3 scum to me.

sacrifice just seems weird. like, we get a vig shot, they flip, it's free, and we get something tomorrow. even though it's loyal, i think there is a catch here - loyal vig is still a much better role than mayor or whatever, which costs 10k. honestly i'm inclined to think it's bait and there's a catch to it on the insurgent side, because otherwise i think it would have come up in review. if we have someone we want to vig, fine? but i'm not too enthusiastic about it.

the jury creates a hood, which i guess is nice! i don't think the vote is very good. i also don't think hoods are that powerful, and can often lead to pocketing, so i'd prefer to avoid this, but i understand why someone would vote for this i guess.

neighbourhood watch... i mean, it's fine? like, there's not much reason why we specifically would want to use it now, since it only goes into effect on d2. but not having daytalk is indeed a small nerf for the mafia, regardless of when we use it, and tomorrow we probably want to use something investigative and a development ability, so i don't see much harm in doing this.

finally, marriage. this might be the best method of killing in a vacuum; make scummy people marry, and if you want to lim one you get to lim the other. however, if you decide you don't want to eliminate these people after all, and they are both town, you're allowing scum to make a double kill when it's elo time and that doesn't seem like a very good choice to make. so while i could get the appeal of this, i don't think it's a good choice for d1.

basically, i think we want {bureau of elections or guildhall} and then {neighbourhood watch or intelligentia}

HURT: Bureau of Elections

[camelCasedSnivy]

tbh i dont see much use in the vote stuff

HURT: Bureau of Investigations

[meowmeow]

ah, yes, that is what i meant to do. i am exceptionally bad with names. the board of elections does indeed seem less useful

HURT: bureau of investigations

[RCEnigma]

funds we don't use just get given to the insurgents, who will have powers for themselves, and i think we're likely going to struggle to just spend the 60k we have.

Err you sure it works like that?

[meowmeow]

VOTE: penguin power this is a utopia, penguins have exactly the right amount of power[/vote]

HURT: neighborhood watch to not have day talk early on could be more damaging then later when there a groove.

I also support printing press, it's pretty clear later stuff is gonna cost more than the current budget and if we don't keep up increasing it it may be days before we can pick something really good.

i don't think daytalk is like, exceptionally powerful in itself, but for most scum players it makes the game a lot more fun and i don't think they would want to give it up. i think scum would advocate for it eventually, if other people were doing so, but i think being the first to bring it up and vote is sort of towny.

i think marci's push on cakez feels like towny and proactive. probably not ai but 152 made me smile! i don't agree with the mechs in 155 - i don't think loyal vig is such a trash role, and i actually think it's maybe

too

good to be true honestly, but that probably isn't a scummy thing to believe.

not a fan of csf's 120 - it feels a bit like, overly cautious? i mean, of course most reads this early are going to be a little premature, and 'town feels' isn't that strong of a statement anyway. i feel like it's self-conscious of giving out tmi townreads too easily, which is something scum do sometimes

not a massive fan of 170 - i think snivy's position on the sacrifice is understandable and the way drew is treating it feels off to me, like he's purposefully trying to twist it into something malicious and it's not super clear how he would get there naturally.

i like aureal's 220. i think at first, scum are at least reasonably likely to give their honest thoughts on mech stuff so they can blend in. however, i think by this point it is pretty likely scum aureal would have the mindset of "if town want to do this, let them" because i think she has a good understanding of the setup and precisely why we shouldn't select trading post today. she doesn't need to pick a fight over this when it could make town reconsider their choices

[meowmeow]

funds we don't use just get given to the insurgents, who will have powers for themselves, and i think we're likely going to struggle to just spend the 60k we have.

Err you sure it works like that?

oh yeah, it says it's 'lost' not given to the insurgents which might just mean no one gets it. i don't really think it changes my point that funds we don't use don't amount to anything good though

[meowmeow]

VOTE: cat scratch fever

there can only be one

[SirCakez]

this cruel cruel game sucks because i can't tell who is partners with cakez yet..

Why Cakez?

Hes doing this thing where hes complaining but doing nothing to fix the problem. It makes it look like hes here, but hes really just doing nothing. Usually people would just not say anything about having no reads unless theyre prompted.

what am i even complaining about? i'm just commenting on the projects but i don't think there's any issues with what's gone down so far. i feel this is a micharacterization.

not feeling anything AI from anyone yet so I'll sit on my rvs for now

and not pushing to find out info anywhere

it was not even 24 hours into the game I'd rather follow the progression of people then force something artificial

[SirCakez]

Can I ask people voting for Trading Post to explain what combinations they want to use which would require the extra budget? I feel like there's just been an assumption we're going to need them.

we could do
census/a development
assassination/autopsy
neighborhood watch/census

[SirCakez]

Can I ask people voting for Trading Post to explain what combinations they want to use which would require the extra budget? I feel like there's just been an assumption we're going to need them.

since trading outpost is permanent itll help when we unlock more roles i think

I think it makes more sense to unlock more abilities first and then decide how useful we think the extra $10k will be.

- Alianna

but i think this is reasonable as well

HURT: bureau of investigations

[SirCakez]

VOTE: high flying dwarf
who is this player?

[SirCakez]

wow was not expecting to be such a big topic of discussion this game
Deal with the Devil - why get into an argument with marci over her push on me? what read did you get on marci from that interaction?

[SirCakez]

i like meowmeow's entrance, first posts I've read this game that really made me feel town

[Deal With The Devil]

wow was not expecting to be such a big topic of discussion this game
Deal with the Devil - why get into an argument with marci over her push on me? what read did you get on marci from that interaction?

I was trying to figure out what it is about your entrance to the game that made you so scummy to them.

I was feeling there vagueness around answering it was telling.

-Drew

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: high flying dwarf
who is this player?

Has no one else pinged you yet?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I actually can't think of anything else that I find mechanically suboptimal but the idea of a no lim for no reason. What's given you the impression there are lots of people I could be pushing for mech but aren't?

I remember you were pushing for increasing the budget pretty hard and several ppl disagreed with that

[Cat Scratch Fever]

basically, i think we want {bureau of elections or guildhall} and then {neighbourhood watch or intelligentia}

HURT: Bureau of Elections

I think what you said about the developments makes sense, but what do you think of the argument that neighborhood watch and intelligentia can be better served later in the game?

not a fan of csf's 120 - it feels a bit like, overly cautious? i mean, of course most reads this early are going to be a little premature, and 'town feels' isn't that strong of a statement anyway. i feel like it's self-conscious of giving out tmi townreads too easily, which is something scum do sometimes

no, I'm just aware that I can get confbiased on even early townleans sometimes, and on review, Aureal hadn't done anything except mech talk that could easily come from scum as well up to that point

VOTE: cat scratch fever

there can only be one

Spoiler: