Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

[T3]

VOTE: Kcdaspot

His posts feel vaguely performative

[T3]

That's funny b/c i was abt to say i think they're townie

Actually, thinking back now, one thing of his that stuck out to me as townie was how he said that controlling discussion would be an 85% scum and 15% town PR. I don't think that scum would feel the need to specify town PR vs. scum because that would leave some room for doubt.

UNVOTE:

[T3]

one thing of his that stuck out to me as townie

ah yes. "In my opinion, as a townie, this action of his feels town. I would know because i'm obviously town"

??? What I was saying that one thing of yours that stuck out to me as towny.

[T3]

That's funny b/c i was abt to say i think they're townie

Actually, thinking back now, one thing of his that stuck out to me as townie was how he said that controlling discussion would be an 85% scum and 15% town PR. I don't think that scum would feel the need to specify town PR vs. scum because that would leave some room for doubt.

UNVOTE:

hm,

why would,

a town!pr specifically want to control the discussion though?

Not sure tbh, I didn’t really think about that. I didn’t think that Kcda’s post was towny because the content within that post was good and insightful, I thought the post was towny because of the fact that he included that specific point in the first place.

[T3]

Medeia’s posts are overexplain-y and it seems like she’s trying to squeeze content out of nothing just for the sake of doing so. In addition, the post about Kcda felt uncharacteristically defensive, especially this early on.

[T3]

Random Nurses' push on medeia seems like it comes from town. I liked the way he was assertive about medeia being anti-town and it kind of reminded me of how town often treat lurkers. It seems like Random Nurse genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town play.

[T3]

dunno but i thought the initial kcdaspot vote was icky

In what way?

[T3]

kinda wish people pushing me like this was more of an alignment delineating thing but alas

Exactlyyy

medeia being pushed for what I think is how they play sucks to read

I don’t know medeia, so how would I know how she plays?

[T3]

As I understand it Scum team members will typically *fight* with each other early on, so I'm always looking for that tell.

I'm a veteran Mafia player but haven't played in about two years, so am rusty.

Saving this for later. Kinda curious on how accurate this is...

I don't know about this, actually. Staged fights are useful, sure, but there are benefits to other strategies.

This post really rubs me the wrong way. The conversation being had is about what strategies scum usually use, but then CT chimes in and talks about what strategies are

good

for scum. Like, why mention this?

[T3]

There's like multiple telling you that tho

I expressed my scumread of medeia before anyone talked about meta or anything. When I read through the demona game I noticed some differences, in this game I noticed that medeia often used language like “I guess” moreso than in the demona game.

[T3]

Random Nurses' push on medeia seems like it comes from town. I liked the way he was assertive about medeia being anti-town and it kind of reminded me of how town often treat lurkers. It seems like Random Nurse genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town play.

how are you differentiating between

town!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

and

scum!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

?

It’s more that I don’t think scum would be as forceful.

[T3]

kinda wish people pushing me like this was more of an alignment delineating thing but alas

Exactlyyy

medeia being pushed for what I think is how they play sucks to read

I don’t know medeia, so how would I know how she plays?

we have played together before in gamma emerald mini normal i had to replace out of as inutile and ydrasse music themed mini normal as shiki and pooky’s dead silence game as thana

I knew you were shiki but I don’t really remember your playstyle. For some reason I was under the impression that you usually post 1/2/3-liners but then I realized that my memory was bad so I wasn’t sure.

[T3]

Fair 'nuff.

Also, can we acknowledge that T3 has been lurking despite being scumread and has given basically no response to that at all? Just wanted to put that out there. (And, yes, I've been lurking too, but I'm trying to do something about that now.)

I don’t really know what there is to respond to for the scumreads on me.

[T3]

I understand why people scumread me for the Kcdaspot vote and unvote and I have been pushing the game to the back of my mind and doing other stuff.

[T3]

There's like multiple telling you that tho

I expressed my scumread of medeia before anyone talked about meta or anything. When I read through the demona game I noticed some differences, in this game I noticed that medeia often used language like “I guess” moreso than in the demona game.

wait is this even true? ctrl+f 'guess' found 63 results in inutile game iso and 59 results in demona game iso and 20 results here so far

I didn’t read through the inutile game but there have been 15 or so pages this game but 60 in the demona game. There is a difference but not by much. I do feel like I’m a bit tunneled on you tbh

[T3]

T3 are you willing to vote chicago or meuh
Meuh are you willing to vote t3 or chicago
Chicago are you willing to vote meuh or t3?

I’d prefer Chicago over Meuh but I’d be willing to vote both.

[T3]

Hi

[T3]

I don’t really know how to play mafia tbh

I comment on whatever I find interesting, if if I find a player scummy I ask questions and push them. 90% of the time I get limmed or vigged. I’ve had exactly one game as VT ever where I have not been limmed or vigged.

In this game, as far as I can tell, I’m being scumread because I’m lurking and some stuff I said hasn’t made sense, or has felt icky or whatever. How do I respond to this???

Recently I’ve been ghosting the thread. I guess I’m just often uncomfortable with real-time interaction when I’m being wagoned.

As for the stuff I’ve said that’s been weird or hasn’t made sense, I don’t have any rebuttals to that. All I can really say is that the people was my genuine thought process at the time, and that I was too dense or stupid or something to realize the flaws in my thought process.

For example, the Kcda vote/unvote. I looked at Kcda’s posts. My intuition said “hey, his posts look performative.” Then skitter said that she thought Kcda’s posts were towny so I went back, was more methodical, and thought “why could his posts be towny, and why could they be scummy?” I’ve found that I don’t have good town intuition at all and I have to rely on a more ‘robotic’ thought process to read players.

[T3]

Also earlier in the game I wasn’t lurking I just found it hard to generate content. When there was the wagon on me I got annoyed and left the thread.

[T3]

oh god deadline is bad for me lol

What are your reads?

[T3]

It doesn’t really feel like Meuh is sharing actual thoughts. More like blanket statements about other players without much substance or justification

[T3]

VOTE: CT

I like the Meuh wagon but I prefer to vote CT here

[T3]

T3?

hello, i am VT

[T3]

T3?

hello, i am VT

r u going to play the game

yes

[T3]

The possibility has been raised that Random Nurse is a Mafia Roleblocker instead of Town Jailkeeper, right?

i kind of doubt it because mafia roleblocker and town checker would be p imba

Well wouldn't the whole point of that be to balance out the checker and give a possible false positive or something? Unless I'm misunderstanding what a checker does.

[T3]

I'm townreading Nurse independently of Chicago but I think that Chicago's claim 'feels' more real than Nurse's. I find it a bit hard to believe that scum!Chicago would think to claim 2-shot bulletproof.

[T3]

VOTE: sheep

I really don't like the way he hedged around me. The way he talks about a possible scumteam with me/chicago leaves his options open if one of us flips town. While sheep does claim to townread Nurse, he doesn't really talk about the mechanics of the Nurse/chicago conflict.

[T3]

-I dont think I have hedged around you, ive mainly been calling u a very scummy slot for a while

You didn't exactly hedge, but you called me scummy, didn't give much of an explanation, and then said that I'm tstbs and decided not to vote me. The best way I can put it is that it seems like you're trying to get chicago limmed now but then also make me the logical choice of lim after that and leave no room for doubt tomorrow.

[T3]

medeia - odd-night checker
random nurse - town jailkeeper(?)
chicagotypewriter - two-shot bulletproof(?)
meuh - vanilla town
pooky - vanilla town(?)
skitter - vanilla town(?)
sheepsaysmeep - vanilla town(?)
t3 - vanilla town(?)
ceejayvinoya - vanilla town(?)

By the way, what does checker do?

Previously you said that jailkeeper was the odd one out in this setup but now you don't know what checker does? Can you please explain?

[T3]

VOTE: Pooky

I kind of like this one after some ISO work

y

[T3]

If we refuse to lim any of the claimed PRs why lim T3 over, say, Pooky? T3 only has 30 posts, so it's not like we'll get a lot of info from there. Then again does T3 usually lurk as Scum?

t3 lurking probably isnt actually scum indicative for him because he said he prefers scumming

I think he'd only lurk as scum if theyre doing like really shit

So then by that logic wouldn't flipping chicago first sort me better?

[T3]

There is no world where the mafia can afford to not take a shot at a town Jailkeeper

this is goofy and if this person keeps saying it I will start finding it scummy as if setting up a mislim when he doesnt die

Yeah but that also puts brass out in the cold if chicago gets flipped and is town

[T3]

why is pooky even scum

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This just seems like a kill that is obviously intended to frame me/Chicago as the scumteam.

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I don't really care about "legacies" etc because those are easy for people to forget - it is just a game.

Yeah but it's not just skitter scumreading you, it's brass, and chicago to an extent.

[T3]

I reread the game, mostly looking for scumpairs.

I think that a brass/chicago scumpair is extremely unlikely. ceejay fits my mental model of him as a player who more or less just makes random comments on things and votes with his gut, may not vote players whom he outright scumreads and upon a reread he's a pretty strong townread. I don't think that scum!ceejay reads chicago's posts the way he does if they're both scum. On one hand, ceejay says that chicago's scumlist is weird and bad, but on the other hand, ceejay townreads chicago because he likes the intent behind chicago's posts. However, ceejay goes on to sheep chicago to vote me. At face value this is a little scummy, but it fits into my mental model of ceejay and I don't think that ceejay would have such a free-flowing interaction with chicago if they're both scum. I can definitely see a world where chicago is scum and ceejay is town though. brass doesn't really talk about chicago that much.

chicago and skitter might have some more merit to it. chicago's early skitter scumread didn't make sense, chicago scumread skitter for something that was objectively false, and then said that "I want a full readlist with justifications from skitter" which is performative and signals to me that chicago wanted to signal to everyone else that yes, he is pushing skitter. chicago didn't follow up on skitter's readlist other than to ask an irrelevant question about Meuh, at which point chicago completely backed off and shelved the idea of limming skitter Day 1. Then there was this post:

Although @ pooky i dislike your random nurse thing fwiw

You have that strong of a tr on Random Nurse?

skitter never said anything before this about having strongly townread Nurse, and nothing about Pooky's Nurse push. So the fact that chicago immediately jumps to the idea that skitter strongly townreads Nurse and

that, specifically

, is why skitter didn't like Pooky's push indicates that perhaps skitter and chicago talked about this in the scum PT. Ig this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I can see a world in which skitter says in the scum PT something about how she'll express Nurse as her top townread to pocket Nurse (or something along these lines) and then chicago TMI's that over into the main thread? One thing that does give me pause in their interaction here:

I feel like t3 is scummy

I feel like we have enough players to eliminate T3, it's just not happening because we have decided to wait until the last possible moment. Is this accurate?

No? Who do you think we have to vote out t3?

Pedit @chicago

I'd expect them as scum to be a bit more coordinated in their desire to lim me, and I don't really see why scum!skitter would want to divert the wagon to scum!chicago from me. On the other hand, chicago was still a viable wagon at that point, and in the gamestate at the time I think it was definitely possible for town to form a wagon on chicago and get him limmed. In addition, skitter held off voting chicago until he was at E-2, at which point skitter voted chicago and chicago immediately claimed and skitter unvoted and went back to Meuh. If chicago ends up flipping even after that, then skitter gets the credit for putting chicago at E-1 and skitter can always hop back on the wagon. If chicago doesn't get limmed then he survives another day and town gets a mislim on Meuh or me. This feels weird and I'm not totally sure about this though.

[T3]

T3 after ur post who do u think is most likely scum

It’s getting late and I’m not on my laptop but my best guess would be CT and then maybe you or Pooky. I don’t think brass is scum at all and I don’t think medeia is either.

[T3]

VOTE: no lim

[T3]

brass kill is weird but no one was really suspecting him so ig it makes sense

[T3]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

[T3]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

Yeah, I'm just going to echo skitter30 here.

What?

So ... skitter30 and I are scum, but you're pretty sure I'm town. Do you mean to say that you're pretty sure I'm scum?

Oops, I meant pooky is town.

[T3]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

if you're ruling out chicagotypewriter/pooky based on day one interactions i don't really understand how you aren't doing the same for chicagotypewriter/skitter

like especially post-claim stuff like there's just no reason for scum!skitter partnered with scum!chicagotypewriter to be questioning meuh's towniness and at end of day and thinking about switching back

when i'm like, actively deciding there

I think I explained earlier why day 1 interactions implicate skitter/chicago more than they clear them, no? skitter’s reconsideration of chicago was just a bunch of meaningless one-liners. In addition, skitter’s reconsideration of chicago doesn’t really mean a whole lot if skitter didn’t vote chicago. It seems like skitter was scum trying to give the impression that she’s conflicted between voting chicago and Meuh, so that Meuh can flip town on Day 1 and she can look less partnered if/when chicago flips.

[T3]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

[T3]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

i can't even tell if this is now referring to here as in at that time or here as in throughout the entirety of the day now

At that time you posted it

[T3]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

are you current on the game?

Now I am

[T3]

I thought that Pooky was being a bit evasive and not very genuine re: the argument with skitter but at this point I don't want to overcomplicate things

[T3]

why is pooky even scum

T3 after ur post who do u think is most likely scum

It’s getting late and I’m not on my laptop but my best guess would be CT and then maybe you or Pooky. I don’t think brass is scum at all and I don’t think medeia is either.

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

Yeah, I'm just going to echo skitter30 here.

What?

So ... skitter30 and I are scum, but you're pretty sure I'm town. Do you mean to say that you're pretty sure I'm scum?

Oops, I meant pooky is town.

T3, explain your read on pooky? you questioned the scumreads on him, and then had him as possible scum on Day 3 and now Day 4 you're sure he's town but you never actually gave any reasons as to why you were sure he was town.

I wrote him off on day 1 and day 2 mainly because good vibes + I had other people that were higher on my list. Day 3 I took a bit of closer look at Pooky’s ISO and I didn’t particularly townread him. Then I took a look at his ISO in the context of skitter and Chicago’s ISO and I couldn’t think of any way he could be partnered with them.

[T3]

Ok wtf there is no way that bloodhail and skitter are partnered. Unless bloodhail is pulling off an insane scum madterclsss I just don’t see it

[T3]

like it doesnt even sound like you wrote it

I’ll live

viewtopic.php?t=91149&user_select%5B%5D=35441 is the most recent game I played on this account and I talked similarishly there. I think I was town

[T3]

Ok wtf there is no way that bloodhail and skitter are partnered. Unless bloodhail is pulling off an insane scum madterclsss I just don’t see it

Wasnt this ur top scumteam this elo?

Yeah it was and now it’s not. But I can’t think of a good scum team if you and bloodhail aren’t partnered.

[T3]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

?????????????

Pooky’s pushback to skitter seemed like he was more trying to justify it to everyone else rather than engage with skitter ig. Skitter’s defense seemed natural and from a genuine place of a tunneled townie.

[T3]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

?????????????

Pooky’s pushback to skitter seemed like he was more trying to justify it to everyone else rather than engage with skitter ig. Skitter’s defense seemed natural and from a genuine place of a tunneled townie.

Soooooooo ur conclusionn on me is ...

Scum, probably

[T3]

Ok wtf there is no way that bloodhail and skitter are partnered. Unless bloodhail is pulling off an insane scum madterclsss I just don’t see it

definitely the only 2 time don corleone winner could not pull off an insane scum masterclass

see now I kind of want to lim medeia

[T3]

VOTE: Pooky

[T3]

congratulations to the scumteam of medeia for winning Micro 1087

[T3]

Someone's gotta explain to me how you all didn't lim T3

idk i just ghosted and hoped that everyone would forget about me

[T3]

Was there something better for me to do here?

not flake/lurk and get townread better

then again, that's pretty rich coming from me