Newbie 2129 - Postgame

[TheHoldSteady]

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

Huh. What made you not expect iavh to flip doctor?

SevenEyes has requested replacement.

I have a question for everyone, do you think scum tends to Townlean or Scumlean their PRRead during the day?

I don't know really

Why do you ask?

CCGeek has requested replacement.

Reminder that replacement requests must be handled privately and that it is against the rules to discuss replacing out in the game thread.

Civil Scum + scum as looking through their ISo they were pretty flip-floppy in regards to the Steve slot, they support the case in 257 then unvote in 267
they later shade Steve in their EBWOP in 405 only to justify their happy vote a few posts later in 416 saying that nobody made a compelling case for a lim. This topped off with their opinion on the Steve slot in 427 saying they lean scum on the slot despite not feeling that the case on them was compelling. I'm getting conflicting messages from their stance on Steve and it does ping me a bit.

Anyways I got to go for now (this was a home post that turned into a work post)

In regards to 257 and 267: By itself, you can vote and change your mind, its probably slightly townie indicative to me just because I'd slightly expect scum to be a bit more deliberate.

But in conjunction with later on it starts to not make much sense. CS even said "there's no great case" when he himself pointed out reasons to sus Steve earlier. But like you pointed out, CS says "maybe he's slightly scum" in 427. It does read a bit to me like scum trying to wishy-washily ease off a town lim to make themselves look better

I'd like CS to explain more why he eventually changed his mind and voted for Happy instead.

Civil Scum has not picked up his prod and is being replaced.

Mayb I should just stop asking questions because it seems like every time I do they leave the game

[SzmarzLeek]

ayy indeed, what you're doing to people man

[Alianna]

humaneatingmonkey replaces SevenEyes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

[SmileyDude1]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)


-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them


-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

[Alianna]

Merlyn replaces Civil Scum.

[TheHoldSteady]

Oh hey I have something going on this weekend

I don't need V/LA, but I wanted to give you all plenty of notice that I won't be around much since Sunday is EOD

[Merlyn]

Hi, gonna catch up

[TheHoldSteady]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)

-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them

-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

What do you think about what I said in 481 and 490 about a CS and SevenEyes team not being viable

Leek +town based on general vibes from yesterday as well as

being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1

I really don't know if being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1 is as town as you're making it out to be

Its convenient that he wanted to lim two nothingness slots where there wouldn't have been any information

I would've done the same thing as scum

[TheHoldSteady]

Its easy to be scum and say "hey look, you all voted off a townie. I didn't" if you didn't need the votes

[SmileyDude1]

good evening ladies and gentlemen

could someone give me a rundown to help me catch up faster, that would be wonderful

Significant Events (there's a good chance i'll have missed something worthy of mentioning. Anyone feel free to add on to this list)

-Early interactions between IAVH and MagicalSteve, with the former suspecting the latter for rolefishing due to their 12, which Steve responds to in their 86

-Early suspicion launched towards me due to what was seen as a weird self-vote followed by weird self-criticism which I respond toshortly after

-BrassHerald getting put to E-1 midway during day 1 before The Bulge replaces them

-The Bulge's 253 casing MagicalSteve, who responds only partially in the subsequent posts afterwards leading to the day 1 elim, flips Green

-Happy flips Doctor after being nightkilled. With their early game softing being the general consensus upon the reasoning

The slots under the most suspicion right now are your slot (For being generally low content and having a weird progression towards the Happy slot that looks bad given the slot flipped PR), and the Civil Scum slot (For having inconsistent viewpoints on the MagicalSteve slot during the EoD)

-

What do you think about what I said in 481 and 490 about a CS and SevenEyes team not being viable

Leek +town based on general vibes from yesterday as well as

being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1

I really don't know if being the main resistance to Steve lim day 1 is as town as you're making it out to be

Its convenient that he wanted to lim two nothingness slots where there wouldn't have been any information

I would've done the same thing as scum

I think the reason I like Leek is more so based on the vibes part of the reason than the resistance part of the reason. I feel like they've come off as consistently inquisitive and seem to be aimed at progressing the game and trying to solve. The resistance to the Steve lim is a relatively small part of the calculation for me (after all I aimed for an similar trajectory in Newbie 2128, where I came out in defense of MikhailTal after they had been driven to E-1 as scum. It's a slight + in my book that Leek did do that, though I know it's something that's easy to fake). I just feel that Leek's play feels towny to me, (may do a re-ISO on the slot at some point though, just to see if there may be ulterior motives i'm not noticing).

[SmileyDude1]

In terms of the viability of the CS/Seven pair, I think the posts you mention do knock it down a peg, though I don't think i'd rule it out. Civil did seem to notice (and take issue with) Happy's softs upon entrance and going by the join date and post count they seem experienced enough to catch out that Happy was PR and direct the shot there. I could see that pairing getting to a Happy kill despite being lost on what's going on during EoD

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being Definitely paired and 1 Being Definitely unpaired, i'd probably place it at 3.8. It's trending towards not working for me, but I could still see it

[Merlyn]

wow, the inactivity and RL interference is working as the third partner of scum here.

I'm gonna call for everyone to post their current readslist; lets get some content and something to talk about going folks, we're halfway through D2 and there's only 2 votes out.

Here's mine:
Town vibes here:
SzmarzLeek
humaneatingmonkey

Leaning town but could go either way:
TheHoldSteady
Patchwork

Not feeling the town-ness:
SmileyDude1
The Bulge

Here's my notes I took that led me to these reads:
[spoiler=wall o' notes

86- Steve attempting to move the game forward


Brassherald slot coming in with good town content, cutting through the nonsense on 112 and 113


Ccgeek slot attempting to progress the game in 130


131- I played with HoldSteady in the same game as where he was scum with Smiley - and he had me fooled. This is a totally different style- relaxed, scum hunting, pushing. If he turns out to be scum here too I am officially terrified of his skills


Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald


169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread


212- omg steve was so town

Ccgeek warns about potential hammering, v towny to me


Post 230 from HoldSteady is so, so odd. Why would you be thinking about changing your mind on the brassherald slot, you’re still voting it?

Smarz took over the brassherald slot, playing a lot like I remember when is was town


I don’t like 302 from HoldSteady- getting sus back on Steve for weak reason

Ccg geek is pushing civil scum by ... .quoting only posts from the slots predecessor.

There was such an odd pressure going on (dunno if it’s AI) to get a lim going way, way before deadline, seven and smiley were big pushers of this. Seven later says they didnt understand the deadline counter, easy newbie mistake. If true then just Smiley

Smarz is pushing my slot next, for inactivity…this holds true enough for his stated dislike of it


Holdsteady is pushing my slot next for a decent enough reason in 384


406 red flag red flag- the only ‘useful’ vote would have been to hammer steve. Which as we now know was a bad choice. This feels like subtle pressure to gaslight my spot into hammering, which they fell for.

[/spoiler]

VOTE: I saw that you're moving, but I really need to hear what your thoughts on the game post flip

[Merlyn]

posting on phone is the worst

[Merlyn]

wow, the inactivity and RL interference is working as the third partner of scum here.

I'm gonna call for everyone to post their current readslist; lets get some content and something to talk about going folks, we're halfway through D2 and there's only 2 votes out.

Here's mine:
Town vibes here:
SzmarzLeek
humaneatingmonkey

Leaning town but could go either way:
TheHoldSteady
Patchwork

Not feeling the town-ness:
SmileyDude1
The Bulge

Here's my notes I took that led me to these reads:

Spoiler: wall o' notes

86- Steve attempting to move the game forward

Brassherald slot coming in with good town content, cutting through the nonsense on 112 and 113

Ccgeek slot attempting to progress the game in 130

131- I played with HoldSteady in the same game as where he was scum with Smiley - and he had me fooled. This is a totally different style- relaxed, scum hunting, pushing. If he turns out to be scum here too I am officially terrified of his skills

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

212- omg steve was so town

Ccgeek warns about potential hammering, v towny to me

Post 230 from HoldSteady is so, so odd. Why would you be thinking about changing your mind on the brassherald slot, you’re still voting it?

Smarz took over the brassherald slot, playing a lot like I remember when is was town

I don’t like 302 from HoldSteady- getting sus back on Steve for weak reason

Ccg geek is pushing civil scum by ... .quoting only posts from the slots predecessor.

There was such an odd pressure going on (dunno if it’s AI) to get a lim going way, way before deadline, seven and smiley were big pushers of this. Seven later says they didnt understand the deadline counter, easy newbie mistake. If true then just Smiley

Smarz is pushing my slot next, for inactivity…this holds true enough for his stated dislike of it

Holdsteady is pushing my slot next for a decent enough reason in 384

406 red flag red flag- the only ‘useful’ vote would have been to hammer steve. Which as we now know was a bad choice. This feels like subtle pressure to gaslight my spot into hammering, which they fell for.

VOTE: The Bulge I saw that you're moving, but I really need to hear what your thoughts on the game post flip

[TheHoldSteady]

230 I just didn't want a repeat of game 2126 where the day one lim was decided very late and everyone was scrambling and ended up voting off a town

Also Brass was the only scum candidate at that point so I wanted us to look at other players so we had a wider selection of reads

The Bulge replaced Brassherald, SmarzLeek replaced KawaiiMikuStan

Thanks for the post, I'll respond more and post a read list when I have more time tomorrow

[humaneatingmonkey]

so who's scumreading me, and why

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and

odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

-SNIP-

Will say that I wasn't aware that Brass was on VLA at the time of making 142. I find the highlighted part odd to criticize given that I literally make this same point within the post you mentioned. May need to check again when I have time, but I think at the time I made 142, Brass was in the lower section of posters in terms of content (I remember a lot of there early stuff being jokes in RVS), I wouldn't say it "wasn't accurate" to call the slot light on content at the time. though there were other players who fit that bill better (which I pointed out).

[SmileyDude1]

so who's scumreading me, and why

and Seven's approach to happy was kinda inconsistent, especially now we know it was a PR

first she said he's leaning scum in her eyes

then I'd asked who she'd lim, and she didn't mention him

when I reminded her that she scumreads him, she said she'd be okay with limming him after all

kinda dancing around the person they knew they'd nkill?

This is essentially what's drawing eyes towards your slot right now, along with your predecessor being low content

Relevant Posts:

im a little bit late but just read through everyone's posts (is that called iso? im new to mafiascum terminology). ill post my reads in a minute and hopefully try and make up for the lack of posts ive made this game.

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

okay SevenEyes, who would be your second choice if e.g. there is a claim or they Bulge defends themselves well? it's wise to have a second candidate for a lim in forum mafia

magicalsteve or smileydude i think.

okay SevenEyes, who would be your second choice if e.g. there is a claim or they Bulge defends themselves well? it's wise to have a second candidate for a lim in forum mafia

magicalsteve or smileydude i think.

not happy? you have a slight scumlean there

i put slight scumlean for happy because most of his posts were unclear/not that relevant/general tomfoolery which can be a bit scummy in itself, since he's not contributing much game-relevant info. i put down smiley as a second choice candidate to lim while looking at my own post on my reads, and recalled that his earlier stuff was mayhaps slightly scummy/generally odd, which is why i put him down. his later posts however are more contributory, definitely more so than happy, and now that i think about it harder, happy might be a better candidate for a lim rather than smiley, since it would be better to keep somebody who has more relevant input in the game rather than someone who doesn't.

Has Happy as a scum lean in their read list, When asked for who they'd be willing to lim, puts myself and MagicalSteve as second choices after The Bulge over Happy despite having us in "null/slight townlean" and "on the fence" respectively. When Leek points this out, Seven states that they think it'd be better to lim Happy over me after all.

What's your opinion on this progression

[Merlyn]

-SNIP-

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and

odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

-SNIP-

Will say that I wasn't aware that Brass was on VLA at the time of making 142. I find the highlighted part odd to criticize given that I literally make this same point within the post you mentioned. May need to check again when I have time, but I think at the time I made 142, Brass was in the lower section of posters in terms of content (I remember a lot of there early stuff being jokes in RVS), I wouldn't say it "wasn't accurate" to call the slot light on content at the time. though there were other players who fit that bill better (which I pointed out).

So you have time for this post and the one after but not for a readslist

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-

Smileys 142- agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and

odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

-SNIP-

Will say that I wasn't aware that Brass was on VLA at the time of making 142. I find the highlighted part odd to criticize given that I literally make this same point within the post you mentioned. May need to check again when I have time, but I think at the time I made 142, Brass was in the lower section of posters in terms of content (I remember a lot of there early stuff being jokes in RVS), I wouldn't say it "wasn't accurate" to call the slot light on content at the time. though there were other players who fit that bill better (which I pointed out).

So you have time for this post and the one after but not for a readslist

Posted my reads recently, a page ago, in 488, so this comment comes off as a tad dishonest.

Currently at work right now, but will be back later if there's anything you want me to elaborate on

[Merlyn]

I missed it, my bad (though it's not post 488 either). It comes off as "dishonest" that I missed it? As in, scum me thought I could trick folks into thinking you haven't posted one... Or something?

[SzmarzLeek]

hello Merlyn, nice to have you here

my reads hasn't changed because we didn't have much content

townleans


Bulge (very adamant to lim innocent Steve)
Smiley (I like the engagement and attempts to break the silence and move the game
patchwork (when Geek wasn't feverish he played well)
THS (overall low volume but decent observations)


scumreads
Merlyn
humaneating monkey

scummy game from Civil Scum and Seven, avoiding the game much, especially with Seven dancing around happy; also it seems like they only provided input to the game when prodded to do so or questioned by other, no own thoughts

[SzmarzLeek]

if Smiley is scum it's a "friend of the town" type of scum, where he's an overall good soul, e. g. provides rundown for the replacement, sums things up, explains stuff, your friendly neighbor

but Smiley had some own thoughts too, not a good lim now I believe, case to observe

[SzmarzLeek]

I missed it, my bad (though it's not post 488 either). It comes off as "dishonest" that I missed it? As in, scum me thought I could trick folks into thinking you haven't posted one... Or something?

well for me it looked like a shallow reason to attack Smiley