Open 104 - The New C9 - Game Over

[ScottHoward]

hey girls
sorry for the lateness
gonna catch up and lay some smack down
stay tuned

[ScottHoward]

btw
im teh seer
hewitt is not mafia
just kidding, im not teh seer

[ScottHoward]

Since Scott isn't here, I'll help out:

If SH is seer, Siesta's a villager.

He's not really the seer though.

i loled
and, i think you might have invented a new technique

also, yeah, wtf with n0 being 3 friggin days? that was disgusting

[ScottHoward]

atakdog is a power role

100% sure this is a lock

mike, what benefit to the village is this post?

[ScottHoward]

you have several key difference between your villa and wolf game

that due to your posting style become impossible to eliminate

i do however agree with the bolded part. my problem now is moreso why didnt mike simply call atak a wolf, rather than claim he was some sort of power role, or why didnt mike wait a couple days to get a good read on ataks role?(i understand hes saying its impossible for atak to change, but i dont agree with "impossible, especially if its brought to light)
odd

[ScottHoward]

MickeyMike and atakdog are both wolves.

if atakdog is a wolf, and mike called attention to him the way he did, mike should be shot. if atak is a wolf here, mike is almost never ever a wolf. further, if mike is a wolf, its very unlikely atak is as well.

[ScottHoward]

hey guys,

stranger and siesta are the best wagons fir D1.

Setting up wagons based on.. well.. nothing and i doubt you could actually justify what you said as a joke or as something backed up by evidence since there is no way you could make such a statement based on how little we know. The reasoning you gave is clearly bullshit since SC has not made any statements about who he's going to vote today and siesta. Also, their posts don't appear to be forced at all. You also state that MIKE is probably not a villager when you have NO evidence of that. And how do we know that scott didn't "peek" ( which i presume means "investigate" ) siesta since scott hasn't even posted so far? Your posts are full of crap and mostly you make no sense. You are hurting the town and the game since your actions aren't justifiable even if you were scum.

Hi guys,

I feel like its best to just claim straight up and draw night kills as well as clearing myself and my mason.

Myself and oEJo are village masons.

How the hell is it best to just claim straight up? And how the hell is it best to draw night kills? Also, how does claiming anything clears you as town at this stage? It's simply mind-numbing.

It's clear that at least both of you have not studied what a forum based mafia is played like on this site. Also, what is the rush for anything? Don't you know that ONE game day on this forum can take up to a month and a half? Geez.

And you call these fact drama. Even more reason you should join a newbie game before joining a normal one. Also, try adopting the terms used on this site. I.e. it's not werewolf, it's mafia or scum.

re stef and his posts:
he seems a little thin skinned.
he also seems to not have a good grasp on ww(mafia, whatever), even though he claims others dont.
but, his crying appears to be honest to goodness villager crying. i dont know why a wolf would get so upset if they really believed a couple villagers were screwing things up for the village. i probably wont be voting for stef any time soon.

[ScottHoward]

From what I can find on Google, "retarted" is an alternate spelling of "retarded", so they're one and the same insult.

does google note that i invented the word "retarted" a long time ago?

[ScottHoward]

i'm trying to help everybody. if you guys didn't have me, you'd be done.

re zhaorx (nothing in particular about the post above, its just a place holder):
ive gotten the feeling that zhaorx admires me and my style and is developing his games to mimic mine. its an admirable path. nothing he has said this game bothers me. i dont have a read on him yet, but if theres going to be heat on zhaorx, its best if its for a legitimate reason. him trying to get some wagons going is not a reason to vote him.
which brings me back to stef:
stef, how do you suggest we move from the joke vote stage to the get down to business stage if nobody takes initiative? if you want to make an omelete, you gotta break some eggs.

[ScottHoward]

Anyway, don't lynch zhaorx yet. He acts like this every game.

ive essentially just said this very same thing. many village points for sun.

[ScottHoward]

Does this mean that you are the mason of OIIW?

this post was immediately after oejo voted omg and refuted his mason claim.
how/why does zazier interpret that as him saying they are in fact masons?
it reeks of an inquisitive wolf to me. coupled with his other posts which are basically helpful fluff posts:

vote zazier

i think a zazier/mike wagon may be in order at the moment.

[ScottHoward]

i think this game setup is so favored for the village

agreed. village wins this game easily imo

[ScottHoward]

anyway, there's a scum among siesta, mada, cougar. bank on it.

Why? You give no reasoning whatsoever why you think we're scum.

people who have to come up with some "purpose" for putting a vote on someone on Day 1 is a solid scum tell.

OK, this can go either way. Some of us do what are called "pressure votes", and those aren't scummy. Voting someone to get that person policy lynched is usually scummy, though. Could you clarify what you're trying to tell us?

this post struck me as odd. mainly because i thought zhaorx did give reasoning for siesta and mada. if my recolection is correct, then cougar is essentially asking "why are you suspicious of me" but is including others as well for some reason.
and then he asks which type of voting z was doing, when given cougars 2 types, its fairly obvious how they should be categorized.

[ScottHoward]

(Since you seem to love having things spelled out: how is it not obvious that he's putting pressure on the players he's calling scum?)

this is attacks response to cougars post i just commented on. pretty much my thoughts exactly

village points for atak

[ScottHoward]

i have one more wolf that im going to keep wtch on (tone based so far). i dont want him / her to change it up for a bit...lets see what they spew

see, now this is the tact mike should have taken with atak.

[ScottHoward]

Stef is aggressive. If you can't live with his posts so far, leave this game now .
Trust me now, I know. Stef and I have had many quote wars .

Unvote vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

As that claim bothers me a lot right now. Why did you do it

?

stef is aggressive? stef plays like a crybaby imo. (note that i am talking about his mafia skill, not him personally)

also, everybody note the bolded part. more probing, scum style

[ScottHoward]

Why was Stef's vote scummy?
What do you think of OIIW's 'claim'?

more of the same

[ScottHoward]

Stef is aggressive. If you can't live with his posts so far, leave this game now .
Trust me now, I know. Stef and I have had many quote wars .

Unvote vote omg_im_innocent_wtf

As that claim bothers me a lot right now. Why did you do it?

LOCK VOTE: ZAZIER

for spewing every wolf tell in the book

pounces on weak bandwagon

gives bad excuse to get off


EMOTICONS

oh god my heads explodingsdagasdfag

LYNCH this guy asap and we got1 wolf

wow, i cant jusitfy a zazier/mike wagon after seeing this. quoted the same post i did. had similar thoughts. this pretty much negates my previous concerns on mike. mike is officially back to neutral in my book.

[ScottHoward]

What excuse do I give?
Besides, what is better: Keeping the random vote or voting a scummy player?
I think you know that answer, right Glossy Lips?

I use emoticons much, het used to it. It's a sign that it hasn't to do anything with the game. The only exception is the ':roll:'.

Also Glossy Lips, gender signs are present for a reason
Besides, there are no wolfs

And as extra, you may start by naming every 'wolf' tell in your book, because I'm really curious to it right now.

defiant wolf rule in full effect

[ScottHoward]

vote matrix

ok, so matrix wouldn't want to kill OMG if he was a good guy.


LISTEN PEOPLE, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK OF OMG AND HIS CLAIM.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

WHAT MATTERS IS THAT SOMEONE HERE WOULDN'T EVER CONCLUDE THEY ARE A BAD GUY BECAUSE OF IT AND THAT PERSON IS TRYING TO GET THEM KILLED.

Vote matrix here and we can get into D2 by tomorrow with the first wolf dead allready.

if matrix is a wolf, hitch almost certainly isnt
and, if matrix is village, hitch is almost certainly village as well. i cant see a wolf being so vocal while trying to get a mislynch.
so, i basically what im saying is that hitch cleared himself with this post.
ww is ez yos

[ScottHoward]

side note, wtf with the "you have exceeded cpu blah blah blah?"

[ScottHoward]

mike, i think omg is probably village
wtf would a wolf do that for even if oejo was in fact his partner? oejo cant go along with it regardless for fear that eventually one or the other of them gets dead, then the other turbo dies.
if omg is a wolf and oejo is not, omg is potentially committing suicide with his ploy. a wolf has no reason to draw such heat.
people need to realize the repercussions of the fps and ask themselves if a wolf would do such a thing, assuming the repercussions are obvious and the wolf would know ahead of time what the reactions would be.
example is people claiming wolf. almost always done by a villager(but it still pisses me off)

[ScottHoward]

Can we hear some more on this subject from his "mason" buddy?

his "mason" buddy has voted for omg twice, emphatically.
what more do you want him to say?

[ScottHoward]

I think OMG's claim is more likely to be villager FPS than a wolf tactic, but I'd still like to hear his thoughts on what he was trying to accomplish.

I'd also like to hear what matrix thinks he was trying to accomplish if he's scum.

here again sun is posting my thoughts almost exactly. i will be quite surprised if sun is a wolf

[ScottHoward]

post 415 is a post from matrix. im not sure why it looks like an atakdog quote

and sun, i didnt say omg was clear, just said hes probably village

[ScottHoward]

sorry sun, i dont mason with many people.
probably only amp and mets, and thats only if they give me teh sex

[ScottHoward]

im only up to like post 267, and oddly, gusmahler has only posted once?
he appeared quite eager for this game to get going, hes posted once (a vote for me), and is posting elsewhere on 2p2. odd. very odd.

[ScottHoward]

all, playing shorthanded while we wait for subs is uber retarted
for all we know, the people needing subs could all be wolves (unlikely they are ALL wolves, but you get the idea) and we are stroking each each other off
i need a sub
have fun

[ScottHoward]

blah, ok whatever
i realize that if i were to quit, id be almost as bad as the babies who quit because 2p2ers post too much and use unbelievably offensive terms like "retart".
so, im still in unless dark already found a replacement for me,which i seriously seriously seriously doubt.
however, i will not sit around glued to the computer and play 30 days to finish day 1.
i will be adopting the mafiascum style of play. i may or may not post again today. i may or may not post again in a week. i may not post again for the rest of this "day".

and, whoever commented on the 1-1-1 record for this open style, thats because the style of play here causes the games to become random. i was talking to another pogger when i said the village should walk with this, assuming the 2p2 style would control the game, not expecting the mafiascum players to cry about it to get their way.

im pretty sure ive voted already, im not changing it for the rest of this "day"
see you in a couple hours, or weeks, whatever.

[ScottHoward]

oh, wellnamed (or whoever has nk power), if you do have nk powers, i suggest killing off the people who quit and are awaiting replacement and then the remaining mafiascum players starting with the players with the lowest posts so far.
this will save my sanity.
thanks in advance

[ScottHoward]

atak, this is how they want us to play the game:
day 1:
everybody joke vote until all the planets align and a majority is luckboxed.
if 2p2ers werent here, this is exactly what would happen.
the moment zhaorx started getting the action going, they all shit their pants

[ScottHoward]

atak, youre thinking > level 0. please stop and revert to staring out your window at butterflies immediately

[ScottHoward]

We actually use logic on Day 1, ScottHoward.

let me know when it happens, im curious to see what you call logic

[ScottHoward]

i dont think you guys are going to like playing with me the rest of this game
just sayin

[ScottHoward]

ok, so what do we do now? this is awesome!!

[ScottHoward]

again, if we remove all the 2p2 generated discussion, we would be sitting here watching paint dry. it boggles my mind that they actually enjoy this.

[ScottHoward]

strangecoug, if you take things so seriously, how can you possibly tolerate the game pace here at ms? its friggin jpke

[ScottHoward]

so, you think the people who post once a week are taking the game seriously?

[ScottHoward]

Also,prepare to be amazed:
I just thought of the perfect solution to prevent me from going insane this game. I will be voting for whoever has the most votes! simple and brilliant all at once. This will accelerate the mind numbing pace we are being tortured with.
Sorry if this bothers anybody, I have some type of mental disorder that makes it such that I need to see substantial progress/action in my endeavors or I get impatient/agitated. (ldo)

Unvote: whoever I was voting

Vote: OMG

[ScottHoward]

We actually use logic on Day 1, ScottHoward.

Explain the logic behind your FOS of well named.

The only way for him to be town being truthful is for him to be a vigilante. Other than the obvious Mafia, we know an SK exists, but not a vig at this point.

Again...

think

! Are your scum here so stupid that they actually admit to having night kills, day 1, for real? Only if they do does your oh-so-scary finger of suspicion mean anything.

Your entire method of scumhunting seems to consist of waiting for people to admit to being scum. Gotta tell ya: this doesn't work so well with competent players.

Like I said atak, if we weren’t here, they would still be joke voting for each other at this point. I think the best strategy for play on mafiascum is really to just get the day 1 lynch over asap, and then we can all start discussing the nightkill(s)

[ScottHoward]

is it still day 1?
lets go people, everybody vote OMG

[ScottHoward]

I won't be attempting to read atakdog this game. I'll probably just kill him at night.

Congratulations, you just soft-claimed a killing role.

FoS: well-named

btw, i think its hilarious that strangecougar made this post as if wellnamed didnt know he claimed a role

[ScottHoward]

hey wellnamed:
if this day ever ends, im going to peek you, then protect you, and then shoot you.
so, tomorrow youll be alive and i will know your role.
then the next night i will peek you again, just to be sure, then shoot you. so youve got that going for you.

[ScottHoward]

im not sure if thats a good plan for me though, cause then i lose my mason
fark
let me think this over

[ScottHoward]

sun, currently you arent voting OMG
you should be imo
do it
do it now

[ScottHoward]

wait, it doesnt mean full o'shit?
wtf does it mean?

[ScottHoward]

not asking you to be a mason
im asking you to help end day 1

[ScottHoward]

fonz, we have all decided to get this day over asap.
you should vote OMG

(we = me)

[ScottHoward]

wn?
diagfldo

[ScottHoward]

ok thanks sun
i agree with wn, full of shit is much better

[ScottHoward]

i will use FoS when i mean full of shit, but will claim to really have meant finger of suspicion
similarly, i will use fr when i mean fing retart, but i will claim it means "fine response"

[ScottHoward]

sun, iirc i had zazier as wolf
but its been a couple days and i stopped thinking about this game once the tears started flowing.
if this charade of a day 1 ends, i will go back and refresh my memory.

[ScottHoward]

obviously we all thought the pog influence would quicken things.
if i knew the days were actually going to last 30days, i never wouldve joined.
now, vote omg if you arent already

[ScottHoward]

fonz, what are we rushing?
if we play it ms style, day 1 is a total crapshoot. why do we need to take 30 days for a crapshoot? why is "rushing" a bad thing?

[ScottHoward]

Ahhh okay I know we want to end D1 and everything but I really, really don't think OMG is scum no matter how dumb his posts seemed to be and I think we're making a mistake...

i dont think hes scum either
who cares, vote for him

[ScottHoward]

Your first premise is flawed.

whats the flaw?

[ScottHoward]

So this game proceeded like this:
joke vote
Joke vote
joke vote etc
Zhaorax (2p2er) says “player x and y’s votes seemed forced, I think they might be mafia. I think we should vote for them”
MSer says “omg you cant suspect people for joke voting!!”
hilarity ensues.
One of you MSers, perhaps fonz?, please tell me how you normally get past the joke vote stages here.

[ScottHoward]

Ahhh okay I know we want to end D1 and everything but I really, really don't think OMG is scum no matter how dumb his posts seemed to be and I think we're making a mistake...

i dont think hes scum either
who cares, vote for him

Stop being stupid and vote for Hitch.

i think hitch cleared himself already?
wasnt he the one that was being pretty forceful about voting for somebody earlier? i remember posting about it, but i dont recall the parties involved.

[ScottHoward]

fonz, do you believe mafia can be found immediately by their very first post of the game?

[ScottHoward]

oh, and i barely want to read this game. no way in the world im going to read the ones im not even in.

[ScottHoward]

Read some previous games. There's no set thing, but they always seem to get out of the RVS somehow. Personally, I will generally random bandwagon for the hell of it, until someone either overreacts, or the wagon gets high enough that someone puts a player in genuine danger with a random vote. Or votes, and doesn't know why they're doing it. Or makes a strong pronouncement (like Zh did here) that they can't possibly back up.

btw, this post is really lol, but i dont have the time to discuss it right now.
perhaps in an hour or so.

[ScottHoward]

Read some previous games. There's no set thing, but they always seem to get out of the RVS somehow. Personally, I will generally random bandwagon for the hell of it, until someone either overreacts, or the wagon gets high enough that someone puts a player in genuine danger with a random vote. Or votes, and doesn't know why they're doing it. Or makes a strong pronouncement (like Zh did here) that they can't possibly back up.

Ok, let me preface this by saying that when I said this post was lol, I meant no disrespect to fonz (believe it or not), I just found it funny.
Secondly, im not going to go through all the points I wanted to, because it will just be a distraction.
I will only make one point:
“Or makes a strong pronouncement (like Zh did here) that they can't possibly back up.”
Z said the posts seemed forced to him. what more backup is needed? Z doesn’t have control over every players vote in the game. he can say whatever he wants. Its not like Z saying they were forced is going to brainwash people into voting for anybody. Amirite? And as far as backup goes, nothing in this or any other game can be “backed up” unless it is a direct distortion of fact, which comes into play very little as most of this game is interpretation. If Z feels the posts were forced, so be it.
Again, I wish I could discuss the other stuff, but it would be fruitless im afraid.

[ScottHoward]

No.

we cant talk about ww then

[ScottHoward]

i eat caffeine for breakfast
huge chunks of it

[ScottHoward]

Rushing the day so that it's over before the end of the RL week will significantly harm the town.

fonz, i think rushing the day so that its over before a rl year will significantly harm the town. what do you think of that?

[ScottHoward]

vote strangercoug

pushing omg to satisfy some stupid retarted ms logic is wolfish imo.
omg is a wild player, this is standard for him. so it breaks down to the chance that he was randed wolf. obviously theres a much greater chance hes village than wolf.
strangecougar is trying to force ms "logic" on the game, which is fine. go for it. 2p2 will try to force common sense on msers.

fuck, i was planning on coming in here today being nice and civil

[ScottHoward]

yeah, lynch all liars, fine, WHEN THEY ARE CAUGHT LYING MALICIOUSLY. OMG IS NOT MALICIOUSLY LYING A FRACTION OF THE WAY INTO DAY 1 AS A WOLF. STOP BEING DENSE.
oh wait, i know, "ahh, but if they know they would be cleared, they would do it", right?
no wolf is going to do something so crazy ten seconds into day 1 in the hopes that instead of the STANDARD "lynch all liars" approach that is taken here, somehow everybody will clear him. youre either a moran or a wolf imo.

[ScottHoward]

Right now I am very confident Hewitt is Town

fairly confident: Atak is Town and Scott is Town.

I am getting scummy vibes from m1ke and CS, more so than I was earlier with CS's rapid one line response to my vote.

Everyone else is in the meh column.

Your scumhunting is breathtaking.

in this reply, central scrutinizer "soft claims" villager
why is it again that we arent lynching him?

[ScottHoward]

matrix, iirc, you detest my fake seer posts. i find it odd that you have put me in your village category. discuss

[ScottHoward]

also, im pointing the "fos" at everybody who is bitching about the claimers but hasnt once mentioned me, and ive claimed like 6 different roles already. i suspect these people have extra knowledge that the village doesnt.

[ScottHoward]

Scott, it makes no sense to vote me for forcing this site's logic on other players

im voting for you because i suspect youre using the ms logic (if it can be called that) as cover for an easy lynch which if turns out to be a mislynch, you can claim "lynch all liars" and walk away.

[ScottHoward]

matrix, good answer

[ScottHoward]

heres another funny tidbit:
it was stated that the village record in this format is 1-1-1. it was also stated that taking less than 7 real days to complete day 1 is antivillage. id be willing to bet that the games lost and tied by the village were played essentially the same way the one victory was.
small sample size, i know, but then again, the 1-1-1 was also based on a small sample size.

[ScottHoward]

i think i mentioned this already:
gusmahler has an increased chance of being a wolf.
he was fairly gungho about getting this game going, then it starts, and he made 1 post?
very odd.
keep this in mind down the road

[ScottHoward]

jesus god almighty this is so ridiculous

[ScottHoward]

everybody vote scrutinizer or strangecougar.
oh no.wait, lets sit around 4 more days and then do what we should have done 3 days ago

[ScottHoward]

Our personal motto: Longer days help the town.

longer days help the town if people are trying to play.
again, if 2p2 wasnt playing, there would be 0 discussion.
it would be joke votes for 2 weeks until somebody miraculously got enough votes to trigger fonzies magical limit at which point the game would begin. this is not nearly as beneficial to the village as the mafiascummers believe. and want us to believe. essentially the time spent waiting for fonzies magical barrier to be broken is wasted.
but, if we are to believe that the msers know that there is such a barrier, then nobody will vote to break that barrier, and then it will take some other event to create discussion. the event would be people pressuring others as to why they refuse to switch or why they are refusing to vote a certain player, whatever. we dont need to wait 2 weeks to get to that point, we can do it in one day.
think about it. where would we be if omg didnt claim, or if matrix didnt "claim" or whatever. where would we be? without checking, i believe that all the current votes (or a large majority) are on either somebody who "claimed" or on somebody who is voting for a claimer. remove the 2p2 influence and we would be watching paint dry.

[ScottHoward]

Hey guys!

Randomly going to

Vote: ZazieR

...wut's goin on in hear OMFG 28 PAGES!!!

Well...


...let's get to lynchin' scum, then!

Unvote

Vote: omg

DO NOT VOTE FOR YOURSELF YOU BIG WEENER

There is a literal morass of self-aggrandizing newbies in this game. It gives me a headache (payback for when I was a self-aggrandizing newbie, I'm sure). I'm just going to pick up the game from here and pretend I've been along for the ride all along.

Note: I use ad hominem on occasion because I think it's funny. Don't take it personally, and feel free to throw it right back my way so long as you continue to provide answers and questions for me/the town while doing so. If your posts consist ONLY of insults, I will ignore them, buttsniffers.

I hope this is a hammer on omg. If not, someone hammer.

vote wall-e

probably never changing


in one post, he votes for zazier, whos not even in the game, and then changes to omg.
point 1. hes trying way too hard to appear village
point 2. by voting omg, hes indicated that he has knowledge of the thread contents and what has been going on, but that would contradict his vote for zazier.

[ScottHoward]

mike, vote wall e imo

[ScottHoward]

[quote="Wall-E"]

Note: I use ad hominem on occasion because I think it's funny. Don't take it personally, and feel free to throw it right back my way so long as you continue to provide answers and questions for

me/the town

while doing so. /quote]
soft village claim
geez, so many claimers this game huh?

[ScottHoward]

mike, i couldnt care less who helps end this day.

[ScottHoward]

hewitt, do you have anything else to add other than omg is a bad vote? i cant recall anything else youve said.

[ScottHoward]

yeah, youve said it 100 times. we get it. we get it.
if we ever find out omg is village, its going to be hard for me to not vote for you.
just sayin

[ScottHoward]

Aww... I think the wittle wobot huwt their feewings...

this is pretty funny, cause the msers seem to be the biggest babies ever. cough stef cough

[ScottHoward]

you call this game serious? i just checked out another ww site. they play days that are 1 year long. nights are 1 month. they say anything less than 10 month days is hurting the village.

[ScottHoward]

siesta, u should head over to 2p2. we have regular games with 12ish hour days and 12ish hour nights, and we have turbos with 20minute days and 5minute nights.

[ScottHoward]

matrix. i will try

fonz, please give us youre thoughts on walle

[ScottHoward]

Matrix, heres how this game is supposed to be played:
Day 1 takes a long time so everybody can get in and joke vote for a while. Then eventually it miraculously goes from joke voting to serious voting. 2p2ers will not know when that point is, and will have to be told by the msers when it has occurred. Before the “serious” point in the game, any posts by msers that are obviously wolfish are to be ingored because duh day 1 takes a long time, HOWEVER, any and all posts made by 2p2ers are fair game. If any 2p2er claims village, he should be considered harmful to the village, whilst msers can claim village all day long without suspicion.
If I got any of that incorrect, somebody should let me know.

[ScottHoward]

Fonz wants us to believe that people are busy and cant post frequently, and/or that posting one or two posts a day is normal here. Fine, I can dig it. But Fonz also wants us to basically ignore most, if not all, the msers posts, no matter how infrequently they post. This I cant dig. It stands to reason that if people are so busy that they cant get in here to post, or posting once or twice per day is acceptable, then we must pay closer attention to those posts, because they have much more meaning than if they were posting say 10-20 times per day. Fonz can not have it both ways. If we allow people to make one or two posts every couple days, we MUST put assign more significance to the content of said posts. We must gain as much information from those posts as possible. Any person with a brain would not disagree with this logic.

2p2er makes a post containing some reads, a mser comes in to make his one post for the day (example, perhaps he posts slightly more, whatever) “your scumhunting abilities are breathtaking”. Now, are we saying that msers are too busy to post but have time to come in and post little quips whenever they feel like it and we are to assume that these quips have 0 reasoning behind them? If the post is worthless in every sense, why is the mser taking the time to get in here and post it? If we are in the joke vote stage, why bother coming in to make that remark? If we are ignoring all such posts, then how do we get past the joke vote stage?

Fonz is trying to sell us a bunch of horseshit.

[ScottHoward]

All that said, I dislike how you guys are all so bewildered that you'll jump on a player who's made ONE post above those who have made SEVERAL posts. Slow to lynch, quick to ask questions, not the other way around, please.

the post you made was horrible. it doesnt make anybody bewildered.

while youre here, how do you feel about what i said about fonz?

[ScottHoward]

Vote: Wall-E

You see this? Hewitt has voted and failed to state a reason. Don't do this around me or I start sniffing at your doorstep.

maybe it was a joke vote. seems theyre quite popular around here.
why does it bother you so much? (rest assured though, im a huge fan of players giving reasoning)

[ScottHoward]

wall-e, clear something up for us all: did you read the thread or not?

[ScottHoward]

Why do I like players to give reasons when they vote?

I... I've never been asked that before. It's sorta like being asked why water is wet.

With nothing else to go on but bolded names this game would be nigh-impossible. It therefore behooves the town for the players to have policies which tend to pressure other players into providing information. Any information provided by scum is a lie, and it is by looking for said lies we find them.

LET'S STOP TALKING META AND START DISCUSSING WHY I'M SCUMMY PLEASE!

walle, you seem to be the abnormal mser.
up until your arrival, all attempts to get some interaction going was shot down because it was too early in the game. we were told that the joke vote stage lasts quite a while and any reasons attached to said joke votes should basically be ignored. zhaorax made a read that some peoples comments seemed forced, and things got crazy, and then stef, aka, mr aggressive, quit.

you msers need to get together and decide on what you want and how we should play.

somebody tell me if we are now past the joke vote stage.

and re all information from scum is a lie, this is untrue. when im a wolf(mafia, whatever), i practically never lie.

[ScottHoward]

and, i wasnt asking why you like reasoning, i was asking why you didnt like joke votes. subtle difference.
but so i am sure of the answer, are you anti joke vote or not?

[ScottHoward]

With nothing else to go on but bolded names this game would be nigh-impossible.

agreed 1000%
but others here seem to disagree just as much.

[ScottHoward]

it doesnt make anybody bewildered.

What?

stop acting dumb

[ScottHoward]

everybody be nice to norse, hes a little sensitive

[ScottHoward]

everybody should note that walle is proving over and over again that he isnt reading the thread closely, if at all.
some examples:
1. his vote for zazier
2. claims Hewitt is suns #1 suspect
3. claims nobody other than sun had given reasons for their votes on him.
4. hasnt answered questions posed to him in the thread

now, this might not be extremely damning by mser standards, but it should be.
he is posting without knowledge of the thread content and this can not be considered "good for the village" which apparently is a big mser suspicion trigger.

he is pressuring others to give their reasoning for their votes, which is fine. its the way it should be, BUT, at the same time, he is voting for omg as a matter of policy. a weak reason at best from the guy who is shitting on other peoples reasoning.
he says he will prove suns reasoning to be bad, but hasnt even attempted to as of yet.

his "I'm not going to presume to be able to read this game nearly as accurately as some others I've read" reaks of scum making excuses in advance has to why he isnt finding scum. this will be even more scummier if walle is usually regarded as a fine scumhunter.

and just now, says hes "happy with" his omg vote because omg accused him of sucking. omgus is a show of arrogance, correct? so walle, the guy who in this thread said "Arrogance != scummy. The sooner you discover this, the better a player you'll be. ", is voting for omg because omg voted for himself, and is now happy about it because omg is arrogant.
does anybody else see the contradiction?

why is walle not lynched already?
wtf are we waiting for?

[ScottHoward]

strangec, how do you feel about the things i just stated about walle?

[ScottHoward]

As I have stated already, I'm treating page 23 as page 1. Nobody's fault (with the possible exception of the mod's) that I didn't know the game had started until then, but if you want to lynch me for not caring to read 23 pages of eight people from another site bash ms, that's your perogative.

nobody is bashing you for not reading the first 23 (28 really, whatever) pages imo. the case against you is not that you havent read the first 28 pages. the problem is that youre not even reading the thread from where you did show up.

though of course i would hope a player would read the thread from the start, but hey, do what you like. note however norse subbed in and apparently is reading the entire thread. you have been in the game the entire time and cant be bothered. which action is pro-town and which is anti-town? speaks volumes imo.

and, how do you know its 28 pages of bashing if you havent read it?

[ScottHoward]

if i wasnt drunk posting from my phone right now, i would have a bunch of things to say in response to fonz, but as it stands, i will just say he plays mafia like an idiot

[ScottHoward]

in the morning,i will elaborate

[ScottHoward]

yeah, hes a fucking genius

[ScottHoward]

hey all, just got in
omg was village? excellent work msers! excellent work! you guys are all so fucking smart
i will be interested in voting for everybody who had a lame excuse for voting omg. "because he voted for himself" is a lame excuse. hi walle!

[ScottHoward]

OK guys, sorry I haven't posted the last two days... they were the last two days of my final, massively important placement, so I spent thursday working my ass off and friday celebrating. Anyway, back to the grind...

matrix. i will try

fonz, please give us youre thoughts on walle

To this point, he's made two posts. Two posts are not likely to produce anything on which I can give detailed 'thoughts'

though his OGML vote is... well, I wouldn't do it

, but I can understand it.

why wouldnt you do it? because its not good strategy? then why do you understand it?
its either good or bad, if it was good, you would do it. you didnt do it. it appears you disapprove of it. appears you view it as anti-town, yet no bad thoughts toward walle. odd.

[ScottHoward]

Now this sort of thing actually makes me feel better about you. Lurking in plain sight, or

making posts which appear to contribute but don't actually help find scum

, is something that scum consistently does more than town.

this describes pretty much all of fonzs posts

[ScottHoward]

No town player should EVER say that they are vanilla. Saying 'my role is vanilla' = saying 'I am a vanilla townie' = claiming that role. Seriously, MS guys, I'm not wrong here, am i? If someone says 'I am vanilla' that is a claim.

no, youre absolutely right. my question for you is why havent you voted for or used the mighty fos on the msers who have essentially claimed village? why only matrix? you are being inconsistent with your retarted logic.

[ScottHoward]

Attacking people based on the timing of their posts is something i kinda consider scummy. It's so easy to go, oh, he posted immediately after I mentioned him, he musta been lurking. Uh, no.

he wasnt lurking?

lets talk about this a little more.
player A hasnt posted in a while. isnt expected to, because thats how it is around here. Player B posts and suggests Player A could be a wolf. then player A shows up almost immediately (your words, not mine cause i dont remember the exact time delay) and makes some worthless post (claiming village in the process actually, but thats a whole other story), and you are going to tell us all that he wasnt lurking? just by coincidence he showed up and responded to only that post? and how do you know if hes lurking or not? believe it or not, theres as much validity in what matrix says as what you say, no matter how smart you think you are.
my opinion is that he was watching the thread (also known as lurking), and if the post wasnt made suspecting him, we wouldnt have heard from him.

[ScottHoward]

That's not why it takes a long time. The rule of thumb on MS is that a game is slow if the number of posts per day drops below one per player. It's extremely fast if it's over three. So in a game this size, you'd expect between one and three pages per day.

The first two days,

you P2Pers managed to spam up the thread

to the tune of 23 pages. That means a player comes along, he's expecting six pages to read up on, he has 23. This then takes him ages to read through, and makes it harder for him to contribute.

But the 23 pages you've produced, unlike the first 23 pages of a normal mafiascum game, which would normally give you enough to run at least one player up, and often to lynch, have produced basically nothing of value.

it was not 23 pages of spam, we were all playing the game, and there is plenty of information in there. one thing we learned was that it was more likely that omg was village than wolf. if you geniuses wouldve opened your eyes, you would have realized it as well. but as it was, msers would rather policy lynch. good work there.

[ScottHoward]

blah, this is going to take way too long, and really, im not too interested in having an argument over a period of several weeks. i need instant feedback or its just insane.
so you win fonz, all your points are spot on. perfect logic. totally consistent throughout the game. never contradicted yourself. im humbled by your greatness. you make perfect sense.
i will revert to posting very infrequently, and i suggest the other 2p2ers do as well if they havent already, so we eliminate all spam, because posting "your scumhunting skills are breathtaking" and similar isnt spam. only trying to play fast is spam.

do any of the 2p2ers really want to play this whole game out? cause i would be perfectly happy if we just ended it now.
i mean, 6 months is going to come if we end this game now or not, but its just retarted imo.

[ScottHoward]

hitch, you still here? sun?

[ScottHoward]

crap, suns post was like 6 hours ago, my bad
hitch?
poggers should say in or out asap.
gogogog

[ScottHoward]

and arent we still waiting for subs?
yeah, this is good

[ScottHoward]

Hey
My first post today was going to be a peace offering to the fonz, but now that I saw his latest post, fuck him.
I KEED!! I KEED!!!

Seriously though, my intent was to come in and play nice, for however long im here. So consider that the case.

Any questioning from this point forward will be with the intent of finding scum, no matter who im questioning, so do not take it personally. I wont be calling anybody anything other than town or scum.

Any discussions/arguments on what is or is not scummy, will be to try find scum and not an exercise in demonstrating who (which site) plays better.
Atak, youre so sweet. But you should have changed “most skilled pogger playing” to “most skilled pogger eva”

Fonz, the first game atak and I played, iirc, he had a very similar reaction as you are having. We just didn’t have the extra fuel due to the site differences, so hes not blowing smoke up your ass.

Peace offered

[ScottHoward]

LETS ROCK AND ROLL BIOTCHES!!

[ScottHoward]

So,
Fonz claims that there is no information to gain from looking at the omg voters, as it was a pure policy lynch.
Scrutinizer feels looking at the voters is a good idea.
Surely everybody sees the conflict there. How can two msers familiar with standard msers procedure, have opposite views on this matter? Some will argue, as fonz has eluded to in his tirade (no offense fonz), that two logically thinking players can view an event and come to different logical conclusions and both still be town. I don’t believe that’s true at all. Ive shown that more often than not, at least one of the players was/is being deceptive.
Somebody is lying.
It is also odd that these two are not suspicious of each other based on the above. If I know im town, and another player has an opposite reaction than mine to a unique event, I would increase suspicion on that person, not dismiss it, and not ignore it.
Down the road, if we learn there were no scum voting for omg, there is a much better chance that fonz is town and scrutinizer is scum. Likewise, if there turns up one or more scum of those voters, then the reverse is true, scrutinizer is more likely town and fonz more likely scum. (if I need to explain why, let me know)
This is not guaranteed (that at least one is scum) of course, but its definitely something to keep in mind for use later, and its definitely much better than rand.

[ScottHoward]

Scott,

what are your thoughts on OMG's early role claim and subsequent short sharp rebuttal by oEJo now that we know OMG's vanilla role?

I am still trying to work out possible reasons for his play - the only one I can think of so far is that OMG knows he is vanilla and offers a opportunity to oEJo to co claim a Town role, were oEJo to accept his offer it would be more likely that oEJo was Scum.

Though if oEJo has any kind of clue he will quickly deny the claim regardless of role, which makes the ploy kind of worthless ??

Then again this is Eskimo we are talking about...

i can only imagine that omg had some reason that he thought was brilliant.
but, if i was in oejos shoes, if i was town, i would probably go along with omg, and if i was scum, i would deny omgs claim.
reasoning: its early day 1, and im town. if i admit to being mason, nothing bad really comes of it. also, if i would assume that omg was a cop who investigated me, and he was getting his knowledge out for free, with little chance of getting nked.
if i was scum, i would deny having anything to do with omg due to my almost automatic lynch if omg is ever found out to be not a mason.
not sure if any of these thoughts can be applied to oejo though.

[ScottHoward]

Would you care to point me to where you think players have been softclaiming vanilla town?

i didnt say "vanilla town", and i presume that you were planning to make a case that theres a difference between claiming (or softclaiming, whatever) "vanilla town" and "town". but really, there isnt.
plenty of people have already insinuated that they are town. its only natural. to make a big deal out of somebody claiming "vanilla town", is nitty, and if we were to believe you that it gives too much info to the wolves, then claiming vanilla is perfect if claimer is actually a cop, or doc or some other power town role. a wolf isnt going to believe somebody isnt the cop just the same as i am not going to believe that same claimer is actually not mafia.
claiming "vanilla town" doesnt narrow anything down for anybody. its a waste of breath, but its definitely not something that harms the village. to use an extreme example, which is the easiest way to simplify things, what if everybody claimed vanilla town? youre gonna lynch everybody?

and to your other point about not thinking everybody who thinks differently than you is scum, well, you might have learned that as a newbie, but you learned wrong.
if youre town, thats all you know. that and that there are people who are trying to deceive you in the game. now, you come across two people, player A says player X is acting scummy, player B says X is acting town. If you think also that player X is acting scummy, you have to increase the chance that player A is town and player B is scum. you dont have to make it definitive, but you must increase the chances. if everybody did this, the town would hardly ever lose.
now, we can save the strategy and theory talk for after the game because i dont want it to turn into another distraction.

youve called upon atak to step up and get going. we saw your post, but if you took out ataks name, do you agree that you could insert walles name it would apply just as well? what if we inserted your name there? not much difference if you ask me.

one last thing, again, when applying your logic, apply it consistently. you say that bad reasoning (zhaorx's reasoning to vote for whoever for example) is a good reason to vote for somebody(zhaorx), but then say bad reasoning(scrutinizer wanting to go after the omg voters) is not a good reason to vote somebody (scrutinizer), and in the latter case, claim he is a terrible lynch. and write off his bad reasoning to him playing differently. well, perhaps zhaorx plays differently as well. just because you or whoever cant understand how zhaorx can make such claims, doesnt mean he cant be correct. i can point you to a couple recent games on 2p2 where wolves made one post and they were so odd that they were found right away, and the posts were less than 3 words each. (i can point you to more than a couple, but it would take longer to figure out which games it was)

so, lets drop the strategy arguments, cause its not getting us anywhere

[ScottHoward]

i have to get to bed, but im going to reply to walles rebuttle first so that we can lynch him finally.

[ScottHoward]

1. his vote for zazier
How does my random vote prove I have not read the thread? I've already said once that I even had a small reason for the vote. Can you specify?

As stated, zazier wasn’t in the game when you voted. That’s absolute proof. Anything else would be gravy.

2. claims Hewitt is suns #1 suspect
No, I interpreted something one way, then found out the player himself has a different policy.

No,
Sun said if he could choose the lynch, he would choose hitch.
You replied “Sun Tzu: What if everyone was doing what you are doing? Nobody would be voting for their true #1 suspect. If you think you are right about Hewitt, you should vote for him, because A) it will net you cred with the town if you DO turn out to have been right all along and B) that way the voting record is accurate to suspicions of the townies.”
This shows that you are not paying attention to the thread (gravy), and it has to be assumed therefor that you are making stuff up to try and sound like youre participating. [/quote]

3. claims nobody other than sun had given reasons for their votes on him.

I claim nothing of the kind. Quote me please.

Ok:

What does "fancy play syndrome" refer to?

Don't vote without stating your reason. It's how we catch scum.

Read my posts.

You came into the thread and made some scummy posts. Then you said you are always the #1 poster in your games and have hardly posted since then. I said I would give you a pass if you were going to be posting a lot, but you haven't. I'm not completely convinced that you're scum and I'd rather lynch scrutinizer, but as of now, I'd rather lynch you than OMG or matrix.

Ah, so this is the first time I've heard someone from bizarro world state actual reasons (albiet bad ones, as I will demonstrate) for their vote

. Congratulations.

this is more gravy

4. hasnt answered questions posed to him in the thread

Name one.

I asked if you were reading the thread, I asked if you were anti-joke vote. That’s two just from me. more gravy

[ScottHoward]

Fonz, in response to this:

During my read, Zazie struck me as scummy. I needed a random vote, so I voted Zazie. Fair?

You said:

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
Alarm bells!
Was your vote because Zazie struck you as scummy, or was it random? The two are not compatible.

Fine. I would have made the same comment, exept, I already did, like 11 pages ago. A few minutes after walle made his thread entry post. Remember “by voting omg, hes indicated that he has knowledge of the thread contents and what has been going on, but that would contradict his vote for zazier.”? Surely you will agree that both your comment and mine made basically the same point? So, I made my comment relatively immediately, based on the post striking me as odd, a gut feel, a read, whatever you want to call it. You make essentially the same observation, but only after 11 pages, and after walle had to actually type the words to contradict himself. I saw the contradiction right away.
Does this at all help you understand that people can find scum in ways that you think aren’t possible? That yes, 2p2ers are more aggressive (on average) and may have “unorthodox” techniques, but perhaps they are in fact valid techniques, and dare I say, more effective?
Im not looking for a cookie. I want to reply to your comments, but I don’t want to be talking to a wall.
As far as walles comments go, if I find the time, I might reply. He asked me to quote where he said something, I quoted it, and he calls me drunk. I dont know if I can justify arguing with somebody im almost certain is scum.

[ScottHoward]

also, i promised you a link or two about getting good wolf reads from one short post
in this game soah (and tarheels for that matter) is a wolf, and boo radley isnt.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/pu ... re-359320/

in this game, reno is a wolf, cue, scott, and kokiri arent
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/pu ... bo-359136/

[ScottHoward]

reasoning: its early day 1, and im town. if i admit to being mason, nothing bad really comes of it. also, if i would assume that omg was a cop who investigated me, and he was getting his knowledge out for free, with little chance of getting nked.

The only things wrong with that are that a) TOWN SHOULD (basically) NEVER LIE ABOUT THEIR ROLES, and b)

Claiming mason DOES make you more likely to get NKed. Hugely so

.

i cant resist. if omg claims im his mason, and im a vanilla townie and go along with him, why is it bad if i get nked? isnt that pretty much the best result of a nightkill? a plain townie gets whacked? youd rather i deny his claim, and then give the wolves a chance to kill a cop or doc? ok, suppose he and i were masons, and he claimed me his partner. your logic dictates that i must confess to being his mason, but your logic also dictates that i am now much more likely to get nked. wouldnt it then make more sense to deny his claim if i was his partner, thus making it less likely i get nked?

[ScottHoward]

ok, im outty

[ScottHoward]

Not really. I don't find random voting, despite having read the thread, that much of a scumtell.

me either

What I do find scummy is giving contradictory descriptions of the basis for his vote. Since he changed to voting someone else in the same post

agreed. which is exactly what i pointed out, except you needed him to actually say it, whereas i realized it without his further help.

[ScottHoward]

There is no essential contradiction in what he wrote

. The random vote never even stood. It's easy enough to miss a replacement in a 23-page thread. He later said he hadn't read before page 23. Which made sense. As I said, I was getting incredibly annoyed and frustrated by about page four.

yeah, there is, and you are acknowledging now that there is, but you wont acknowledge you are making the same point i already did.
i found it contradictory that he made a random vote for zazier, but then changed it to omg. the random vote alone is fine, it indicated he didnt read the thread. whatever. but then in the same post he votes omg, which indicated he did in fact read the thread. thats the contradiction. now, however many pages later, he admits he read the thread, which triggers your alarm bells.
you are making the same point i did.

[ScottHoward]

fonz, i didnt realize you were here.
serious question:
if we are about to lynch somebody, and they claim vanilla town to save their life.
what happens(typically)?

[ScottHoward]

fonz, i didnt realize you were here.
serious question:
if we are about to lynch somebody, and they claim vanilla town to save their life.
what happens(typically)?

They get lynched. A vanilla townie claim should not change anyone's views. (This does not, however, mean a vanilla townie who is going to be lynched should lie).

my head is asploading

[ScottHoward]

What I do find scummy is giving contradictory descriptions of the basis for his vote. Since he changed to voting someone else in the same post

Now, you see, I actually hit send before I finished the sentence. What I was trying to say was... 'since he actually voted someone else in the same post, it doesn't matter anyway.' What it reads like is 'Because he voted for someone else, the basis of his vote was contradictory.' I

don't

believe that. I believe that the subsequent OMG vote made the ZazieR vote a nonissue- were it not for his later giving contradictory explanations for it.

fonz, the contradiction was there whether he later tripped up or not. you just didnt see it until he did trip.
him changing in the same post does not eliminate the contradiction, it CREATES IT. if it was a random vote due to not having read the thread, why change it? once he changes it to omg, he indicates knowledge of the thread, which contradicts his zazier vote.
you are saying that him acknowledging that he read the thread and found a scummy zazier post was the reason behind his rand vote, and thus his contradiction. im saying that his switch to omg already indicated he read it.

[ScottHoward]

Why?

cause the whole lal thing here appears to be based on a ridiculous premise. (no offense)
im sensing that you guys think mafia is a solvable game

[ScottHoward]

I'm saying there is no contradiction in the notion that he read the thread, and missed that ZazieR was replaced. It's one post, in 28 pages. You say if it was a random vote due to not reading the thread, why change it?

Well, it's a not uncommon occurrence for a player joining a thread which has gone for some time to start with a

random vote, and then change votes as he goes along, in the course of a single post.

This often means that the player votes for players who have died or been replaced. I could find an example if you wanted. (Btw, those 2p2 games...?)

you have people here who havent read the thread who show up, start typing an entry post and in that post make multiple random votes? for real? and this happens a commonly?

[ScottHoward]

the premise that this game is solvable

[ScottHoward]

i linked games in post 973

[ScottHoward]

blah, regardless we have ended up in the same place.

[ScottHoward]

In quick response:

1) No seriously, two goons claiming mason day one in a game where a) it's a large game b) there's definitely a serial killer and c) there might be an actual mason pair is so utterly suicidal that you'd treat masons claiming in that circumstance to be confirmed. In the last 'New C9' StrangerCoug claimed vig, and there were three kills the previous night including the SK, so he was basically confirmed. You can't 100% confirm, but you can as close as makes no difference.


4) Please show me these 'soft claims.' I've asked before, and i haven't personally seen any evidence of anyone else hinting a specific town role.

re 1: this is essentially the point some were making about omg. it would be crazy to do what he did as scum that early on day 1. granted, the other person denied the claim but the point is that omgs claim was crazy in the first place if he was scum.

re4: we talked about this already. i didnt post them because i assumed you were asking for soft claims of specific town roles, which i acknowledged didnt happen. just soft claims of town in general.

[ScottHoward]

hitch, i think its a little too early to figure out what youre trying to figure out.

[ScottHoward]

btw,
im teh cop
mada is town
just kidding, im not teh cop

[ScottHoward]

hey, im here

strangecougar

i will explain tomorrow

[ScottHoward]

couple thoughts;
id like hewitt to come up with some thoughts and reads. all i can remember from him this game is blabber.

i will go back and check, but i recall sun being after somebody. now that we know he was mafia, i suspect his target is most likely town. again, i cant recall who he was after though. was it hitch?

[ScottHoward]

darkdude, youre going to need a sub for norseman. he had to sub out in a 2p2 game that was ongoing and hasnt been back.
no sense in not subbing for him, or killing or whatever you think is best.

[ScottHoward]

who are you looking for subs for? didnt you already kill anybody that needed one?

[ScottHoward]

norse, are you going to get back into the 2p2 game?

[ScottHoward]

somebody just mentioned on 2p2 this game was still going on. I thought for sure it was abandoned. Sorry.
Walle, why are you unhappy with me?
also, fonz is probably a bad vote imo

[ScottHoward]

Lol... I like that my vote has probably a 38% chance of hitting scum right now.

do you guys here at mafiascum use freudian slips as scum tells?

[ScottHoward]

yeah, cause its hard to figure out when theres only 7 players left

[ScottHoward]

gg all
thanks darkdude

[ScottHoward]

also, you guys should take a shot over at 2p2. i think few of you will enjoy it.
walle in particular.