Mistakes can happen. But to see if the mistake is honest or purposeful its good to look at vca and observe reactions of people.
So i would say it depends on circumstances.
The question was not addressed to you, I would appreciate you dont answer questions specifically addressed to others.
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.
These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real
To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.
These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real
To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum
VOTE: kyouko
Why is it that you town read Naerys for?
I like her thoughts and I feel like she's trying to figure out people's alignments
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.
These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real
To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum
VOTE: kyouko
Why is it that you town read Naerys for?
I like her thoughts and I feel like she's trying to figure out people's alignments
This is a very long post that took a long time to make. If you don't want to read it that's fine, but if you're named Hu Tao, Guillotina, Black, or Naerys you should read it. There are questions for Guillo/Black within.
I think there's partner equity in Guillotina/kyouko
Guillotina said she would support a kyouko wagon but jumped off less than 30 minutes later, right after Elements and I joined. I don't think the Celebloki vote was a very good reason to suddenly end their support and having Celebloki at the bottom of their preliminary reads in 310 feels like a performative justification for voting there rather than an actual read
In both 293 and 377 they made sure to include that they weren't voting for the same reason as the person they were sheeping which feels like scum that might be trying to flaunt that their read is unique and different
I think the questions from Guillotina are like...ok, but nothing scum couldn't come up with in an attempt to seem townie, and I think the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer
I have never played with Guillotina and so they are rather difficult to get a grasp on. It could be just a playstyle thing, it could be a scum move. When i am trying to think like scum, i ask myself what could be their motivation. For example - scum!timmer could be trying to go for what he feels like easier wagon which wouldnt attract much attention.
Or scum!Guillotina is trying to sow some discord between townies. Could be Hu Tao their buddy? Cant rule it out
Also it could be just being bad at expressing things.( A stuff i am personally bad at.)
It could be also town!Timmer being paranoid of Hu Tao and town!Guillotina being paranoid of Timmer. Did Gullotina say what they think wbout Hu Tao? I need to look that up.
This post makes me think either you're scum or not reading. I'm going with scum.
Why exactly?
Because if you're talking about guillo, lots of their posts have been about me so for you to say you're trying to find out about if they posted about me after, doesn't add up.
What? Black was talking about Guillo
In post 560, Naerys wrote:
The point of it was Guillo shading Timmer for suspecting you.
Apparently this is the whole of the interaction within these quotes, maybe it seems smaller since I quoted one post that contains all the replies but I'm going to break this down in notes because I did not understand 560, nor did I understand what Guillo making a lot of posts about Hu Tao had to do with anything, nor did I confirm Hu Tao's allegation that Guillo makes a lot of posts about them.
384 - Black votes Guillo in the post where she puts partner equity between Guillo and I, and cases Guillo. To summarize:
She says we can be partnered because Guillo supported my wagon and then jumped off 30 minutes later after 2 more players joined the wagon on me, and Black thinks the place Guillo moved his vote to, Celebloki, was not a good vote with a faked justification
Individually Guillo can be scum because in 2 posts he sheeped another player but always made sure to point out it was "for a different reason" than the person he was sheeping, like he has his own reads and wants everyone to know he is not sheeping.
Black says Guillo's questions are fine/towny enough but could be faked as scum. I assume by "questions" she means she read Guillo's ISO and that any time he poses a question, her general impression is that it could be faked. Correct me if I'm wrong and if you're reading this
@Black
.
I think this is the point Naerys was replying to - "the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer" - going to add 374 to the quotes so I can follow this in preview because I'm struggling here
Note: Guillotina snipped quotes in the original 374 and I've unsnipped them here. I don't think I've made a mistake but let me know if something is misattributed.
Looks like there was a broken tag in 369, what a headache. so Guillo did say " I didn't think it was a serious claim" and Timmer was the one discussing his mafia career above that. "Hu answered by saying true claim" is also Timmer
In post 322, Guillotina wrote:
Why pay mind to a VT claim during RvS with 10 years on?
Because most of my mafia career was on sites where roleclaiming was strictly forbidden and would get you modkilled instantly. So this is my second game with claiming allowed and it's... weird. Especially a VT claim so early. If you are a VT, you've helped the mafia target the power roles. If you are lying, you will destroy your credibility later on. I just don't get it.
I didn't think it was a serious claim tbh.
Hu answered that already by saying that it was a true claim. If it's all a gambit, again how is this helping town?
I will tell you what does not help town, getting fixated on a simple VT claim. In fact I'd be more suspect of someone claiming PR early day 1 than a Vanilla claim.
I suspect Hu for different reasons but the thing you are fixating on is... weird.
Okay I understand 374 now and I'll add that I do agree with Black's interpretation of this post that she made in 384. It is a strange stance for Guillo to take given the way the conversation has gone. Like accept that Timmer comes from a different background where the claim is weird and move on.
@Guillo
- If you think Timmer is fixated on it, stop engaging him on it. Call him out if he keeps bringing it up on his own and you think he's scum for that reason, but when you keep replying about it, of course he's going to keep talking about it. I think beating the dead horse here is just guiding Timmer to take more of the actions that you claim are scummy and then blaming him for it. It does seem shady imo.
moving on.
553/555 - self-explanatory. Hu Tao says Naerys is either scum or not reading, prob scum. Naerys asks why HT thinks that.
558 - Hu Tao says "if you're talking about guillo", (possibly implying HT themself does not know what Naerys is talking about and is proceeding with a scumread before questioning for clarification!) "lots of their posts have been about me so for you to say you're trying to find out about if they posted about me after, doesn't add up."
I'm again going to have to look at more posts (Guillo's ISO up until 558), but my initial reaction to this is I think it's unreasonable of Hu Tao to expect Naerys to be following Guillo-Hu Tao so closely that she would know all about Guillo's read/opinions on Hu Tao
from memory
. This is D1 of a large game and Guillo-Hu Tao are not exactly the only focal point of discussion.
In post 172, Hu Tao wrote:
I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.
Hu, if you thought the above, can you clarify why you quoted and vote Naerys here?
In post 184, Naerys wrote:
For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.
I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.
How long have you played Mafia?
Off and on for over 10 years, mostly off lately.
Why pay mind to a VT claim during RvS with 10 years on?
In post 365, Guillotina wrote:
Because most of my mafia career was on sites where roleclaiming was strictly forbidden and would get you modkilled instantly. So this is my second game with claiming allowed and it's... weird. Especially a VT claim so early. If you are a VT, you've helped the mafia target the power roles. If you are lying, you will destroy your credibility later on. I just don't get it.
I didn't think it was a serious claim tbh.
Hu answered that already by saying that it was a true claim. If it's all a gambit, again how is this helping town?
I will tell you what does not help town, getting fixated on a simple VT claim. In fact I'd be more suspect of someone claiming PR early day 1 than a Vanilla claim.
I suspect Hu for different reasons but the thing you are fixating on is... weird.
In post 377, Guillotina wrote:
I'm down to pressure there though, just not for the same reasons as yours.
In post 376, TimmerRC wrote:
I'm not fixated, though? I mentioned it once, Hu replied, and I literally moved on. The only reason it is still being talked about is you asking me about it even though the issue was already put to bed.
In post 172, Hu Tao wrote:
I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.
Hu, if you thought the above, can you clarify why you quoted and vote Naerys here?
In post 184, Naerys wrote:
For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.
VOTE: Naerys
Yes it has more to do that I think the post seems fake to me, rather than the content. But good catch.
This has led me to have that line of thought. To me it is an inconsistency, cause both of you had a similar read but you sussed them for it.
Spoiler: my interpretation of the quotes
304 - questions Hu Tao directly about why they voted Naerys who had the same perspective on miller claims as HT did
310/311 - puts Hu Tao in a reads list as scum in 310, and posits a possible pairing with Naerys in 311. Since these are readslists I feel they equally "engage" with everyone and should not be counted as "about Hu Tao"
322/374 - is Hu Tao-adjacent because Guillo is talking to Timmer about HT's claim - I would also not consider this to be "about Hu Tao" - this is about sorting Timmer imo.
377 - Votes Hu Tao. Imo this is only the second post "about Hu Tao" in the ISO after 304. Note this is ISO#47 so so far 2 of 47 posts have been "about Hu Tao" - Guillo does make a lot of posts but he's not really a shitposter. I would say most if not all of his posts are game-related, without specifically checking.
378 - same as 322/374 - really this is about Timmer and not HT
443 - is the second direct interaction with Hu Tao, the first being 304, and the third post total about Hu Tao. ISO #53.
447 - the Guillo vote moves off of Hu Tao so I'd say Guillo is probably done focusing primarily on Hu Tao at this point
516 - Guillo answers 2 replies that Hu Tao has finally made to previous questions Guillo sent Hu Tao's way. ISO #58.
Guillo also makes 2 of the "wallposts" about associatives and HT is listed once in each. Similar to 310/311, I think these 2 walls are about "everyone" and are not Hu Tao specific. So in total there are 3-4 posts out of 58. 2 questions to Hu Tao, a vote on Hu Tao, and one reply to both of Hu Tao's answers to the original 2 questions.
I find it hard to believe that Hu Tao thinks Guillo's ISO is entirely about them unless Hu Tao is hyper-aware of Guillo's pressure because Hu Tao, as scum, is nervous about town!Guillo catching them here.
She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^
Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.
Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.
Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.
My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.
Add Kyouko to my list
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald All my completed games
Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.
Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.
Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.
My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.
Add Kyouko to my list
So big post = town to you? No shot you actually read that in under a minute
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here
In post 909, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.
These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real
To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum
VOTE: kyouko
I think you're tunneled, with peace and love.
I think my last 2 posts detail my original impression and how I recognized where it was wrong well enough that it can't be denied they are real thought processes.
Naerys was an "I'll compromise here if I need to but I would prefer one of
my
scumreads davesaz/Celebloki" - Hu Tao is now one of
my
scumreads after a detailed inspection and I'm hoping you'll rejoin me there in flipping scum. VOTE: Hu Tao
She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
"No ssbm is not grudging me. She's one of my favorites on the website, and i wanna say vice versa." - Transcend
The day senpai noticed me^
In post 936, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
If you think Timmer is fixated on it, stop engaging him on it. Call him out if he keeps bringing it up on his own and you think he's scum for that reason, but when you keep replying about it, of course he's going to keep talking about it. I think beating the dead horse here is just guiding Timmer to take more of the actions that you claim are scummy and then blaming him for it. It does seem shady imo.
I hard disagree. If Timmer randed scum and made that post as scum back then, he is still scum now and everything you had posted in the past that looks like a scum looking for reasons to push on someone must be scrutinized. I have moved on from the subject but I would be lying if I told you that i entirely forgot about Timmer's push on Hu Tao for the vanilla claim as being reachy.
Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.
Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.
Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.
My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.
Add Kyouko to my list
So big post = town to you? No shot you actually read that in under a minute
Big post that looks like lots of effort has gone into it
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald All my completed games
