Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

first!!
VOTE: lucca261
Chrono Trigger is a good game

[Gamma Emerald]

you were the reason I joined FuDuzn, so the immediate hostility is disheartening

[Gamma Emerald]

because I like playing with folks that I haven't played with before, especially if they have older join dates

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Alianna
nowhere did I say I wanted to yeet FuDuzn.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi.

I like your entrance the best.

You are town.

Thank you. I will blindly trust this and say you're town too!

VOTE: Hu Tao

kinda wanna say this comes from scum? Like, there's a bit of a "oh god i gotta appear towny" in those words imho
"blindly" also sounds hyperaware of the lack of info a townie would normally have

I don’t think Hu Tao’s post is that bad
I will say I am likewise getting good vibes from you
For the time being I think a town block of you, me, Hu Tao, and FuDuzn works

[Gamma Emerald]

I wish i could time travel

huh? what prompts this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi.

I like your entrance the best.

You are town.

Thank you. I will blindly trust this and say you're town too!

VOTE: Hu Tao

kinda wanna say this comes from scum? Like, there's a bit of a "oh god i gotta appear towny" in those words imho
"blindly" also sounds hyperaware of the lack of info a townie would normally have

I don’t think Hu Tao’s post is that bad
I will say I am likewise getting good vibes from you
For the time being I think a town block of you, me, Hu Tao, and FuDuzn works

Oh yeah it's not lockscum bad but like, we're pushing the game fowards bestie, let's pretend it's more than it is

not sure what a townblock is supposed to do there tbh, unless that's just a way for you to state your reads

I’m trying something sorta-different: I’m going to try to form a townblock in EVERY game I play. I have done them before and even tried to do them in most games for a certain time period but I’ve never gone the total saturation route I think? I think it’s going to be personally enlightening in a few ways, but I want to keep those sekret.

[Gamma Emerald]

Recounted. 3 votes alianna. Undoing vote

VOTE: None

edited to fix broken tag

VOTE: DragonEater70

This draconian leader must be overthrown! Anarchy must reign!!!

Creating fake dragon facts are encouraged. Deciding the leader of the dragons is a cannibal is a bad fact.

VOTE: Alianna

It's not a bad fact if it's true!

So you admit that it's either a bad fact, or a bad fake fact.........

Not a fan of this. 7 votes to lim, so 3 votes are nothing. Why unvote, other than to (incorrectly) appear to be doing a townie thing?

Then, after a serious game-related action reverts back to RVS banter.

VOTE: Margot

The first point looks okay but I don’t think sliding back into banter is a scumtell since I do it a lot myself regardless of alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to work together with them and FD rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I liked 23, pretty much

[Gamma Emerald]

The eagerness to reciprocate the town read looks good to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to work together with them and FD rn

Ok let's put in some work.

What do you make of Alianna?

Very fluffy, though I think 42 is an alright post
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.

Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.

I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.

That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

GL,HF

VOTE: upward

This seems a bit forced for me.

Why is it scum instead of just newb?

[Gamma Emerald]

Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.

Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.

I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.

That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

GL,HF

VOTE: upward

This seems a bit forced for me.

Why is it scum instead of just newb?

Could be. But I feel new people are not as likely to have a scripted opening like that.

It’s player dependent, iirc a friend from my homesite opened his first game on here with RQS?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

[Gamma Emerald]

nai = not alignment indicative
idk what poat is supposed to be, unless it's a typo of "post"

[Gamma Emerald]

that's one way to interpret what we're doing

[Gamma Emerald]

his questions don't feel like they're meant to corral the game into a certain position rn
plus: townblock of 2 + townblock of 2 = townblock of 4 (this also goes for my hu tao read, I think this is a more succinct way to express my early idea I expressed)

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi.

I like your entrance the best.

You are town.

Thank you. I will blindly trust this and say you're town too!

VOTE: Hu Tao

kinda wanna say this comes from scum? Like, there's a bit of a "oh god i gotta appear towny" in those words imho
"blindly" also sounds hyperaware of the lack of info a townie would normally have

I don’t think Hu Tao’s post is that bad
I will say I am likewise getting good vibes from you
For the time being I think a town block of you, me, Hu Tao, and FuDuzn works

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, I swear I remember the name Boonskies, their join date was right before I kinda site flaked

he plays on the account Flavor Leaf now, boon is exclusively his modding account

[Gamma Emerald]

Um yeah that’s normal, there’s more town than scum, at least there should be in a well-balanced game

[Gamma Emerald]

I was going to unvote if FD didn’t anyway since I wanted to see Margot’s reaction to the wagon, not the blitz elim

[Gamma Emerald]

kek

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald

Somewhat of a gut read but i've been really thinking it is town, i guess depending on how that towblock stuff goes i'll reevaluate or lock it as town?

Can you expand on this or is it pure gut? I looked at D1 in some past town games of hers and this game feels different.

You do realize I stated my approach to this game was a bit special, right?

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

When did you read those past games?

[Gamma Emerald]

And which games did you read, as well?

[Gamma Emerald]

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

You do realize I stated my approach to this game was a bit special, right?

Yes, and I find that approach - declaring a 4-person townblock in post 44 - to be highly suspicious.

Town blocks are great when they form organically, over time. I don't see town motivation for your approach. Seems more likely to be scum buddying.

Agreed, especially on day 1. 2 person townblock happens trivially. 3 person, sure, easy enough. 4 on day 1 is forced. So scumpoints for Gamma.

That said, I don't think we have a townblock so much as gamma

wanting

a townblock. If HT, Gypyx, and FuDuzn all hopped on Gamma's suggestion, then I'd be panicking and assuming 1+ were scum.

I think I’m more willing/likely to force certain things as town, and other things as scum. For instance, I tend to lack stamina as scum so my presence on later days in scum games tend to be diminished. But I frequently have a read as town that I form on very little evidence but has substantial strength, which I think can be described as “forced” among other terms

[Gamma Emerald]

and also, that one's more of a personal scumtell of mine, why would you, as a townie, think about what scum!You would you? i'm kinda reading that as the fact that you were hoping to gain towncred for that and you're annoyed it's not working out

I actually do something like this myself (reflect on my own actions and consider how I would read them, how I’d expect others to read them, and how they fit into my concept of my own meta)

[Gamma Emerald]

@GammaEmerald
You've got your towncore posted, but any scumreads?

Clap is a scumlean because the meta point feels half-baked
I can’t remember anything else pinging me

[Gamma Emerald]

bloop

[Gamma Emerald]

Elimination-bait, a very scummy townie that the actual scum can push without much worry to take the heat off them

It's derived from lynchbait, but since "lynch" is no longer an allowed word on here that's the most popular alternative

Not to rain on your parade but limbait can still be scum, it’s just a certain type of player in my book. For instance, Elements is generally limbait as either alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Claptastik
My Margot vote is played out so it’s time to go here

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay and?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay and?

You went from voting

with

me to voting

on

me, after I pushed you. So, pretty OMGUSsy.

I think your presence on the Margot wagon has zero bearing on my vote there.
Additionally, as a general note, I find one of my better ways of finding scum is seeing whose meta of me seems disingenuous, and I got that feeling from Clap, which is why I distrust him for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think your presence on the Margot wagon has zero bearing on my vote there.
Additionally, as a general note, I find one of my better ways of finding scum is seeing whose meta of me seems disingenuous, and I got that feeling from Clap, which is why I distrust him for it.

What does "seems disingenuous" mean, and what would be my scum motivation for doing disingenuous meta at this stage of the game? Seems to me it would be completely unnecessary.

Seems disingenuous = I don’t think you’re telling the whole story, or you’ve twisted something to fit your agenda
Idk why scum seem to fail to meta me believably either but I prefer to accept things when they’re true despite my lack of deeper understanding. Like, the best answer is “there’s an agenda behind it” but there’s a certain way it manifests that just doesn’t have any logical explanation to it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have won games almost solely by townblocking on day 1. Don’t be a hater.

[Gamma Emerald]

Seems disingenuous = I don’t think you’re telling the whole story, or you’ve twisted something to fit your agenda
Idk why scum seem to fail to meta me believably either but I prefer to accept things when they’re true despite my lack of deeper understanding. Like, the best answer is “there’s an agenda behind it” but there’s a certain way it manifests that just doesn’t have any logical explanation to it.

I could go and show you acting more decisively and voting more frequently if you like, but if I do - are you just going to claim that's due to your experimental town block method this game? If so there's no point in me bothering.

I can’t guarantee that won’t be my response but it isn’t for sure going to be that either. My meta is so expansive that just picking a range and praying will likely paint a pretty lacking picture.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have won games almost solely by townblocking on day 1. Don’t be a hater.

Can you show a game where you were town and made a town block of 4 people 50 posts into the game? That would be helpful.

I can probably find one eventually, as I said I’ve played a lot of games
I would rather just share the game where the strategy I’m basing this current gameplay on was executed successfully.

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?t=87397
Here you go

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?t=87397
Here you go

Thanks, but I don't see you declaring a town block there like you did here.

It happened much later in that game relatively speaking, but I think doing it so early isn’t exactly worse. It definitely helped get us out of RVS.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

[Gamma Emerald]

smh

[Gamma Emerald]

Excellent, great minds etc!

riddle me this: what's my scum motive here? Since you + Delta seem dead set on suspecting me here

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chases

[Gamma Emerald]

*sigh*
I don’t think all scum would pile on me but none of these votes really feel town-motivated from where I’m standing

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chases

Yeah okay but if you’re scum why play for eventually getting flipped? It actively makes it harder to fulfill Mafias Win Con.

This looks to me like a dubious exchange at best. So nothing I’d reasonably expect from a player like you who has claimed to have played a ton of games.

In other words, I don’t believe you here.

Therefore

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You don’t understand high-level play if you think getting flipped as scum can’t be a wincon-advancing move.

The second part just looks vague and trite. Calling it a “dubious exchange” with zero backing thought process is unhelpful. And I don’t see how my games played has to do with what you’re saying because

you’re basically saying nothing

.

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

What exactly do you see as my reason for voting Clap?

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)

I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t land

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m saying nothing? I shall elaborate then:

Getting flipped as scum inherently hurts your win Con since it’s literally dependent on the number of Scum left alive. All for the potential upside of chaos. But chaos in itself isn’t useful if you fail to then abuse it properly. While the downside of having lost a player remains a cold, hard fact.

Just a simple Risk/Reward question. It’s basically the equivalent of a dubious sacrifice in chess. Now you have to proof compensation somewhere down the line, while there would have been more solid routes available. And in general players will play more solid the more experience they get.

All just very basic reasoning in my mind. So I’m not sure if you don’t understand me or if it’s that you do not want to understand me.

This is meant to be a game where I am trying to figure out what works for me and what feels good. So I don’t think saying “your level of experience means you shouldn’t be doing this” is valid based on that. Plus, there’s a line from a past game I feel like referencing: don’t tell me how bad I’m allowed to be. It really feels like you’re trying to act like you have some authority on analyzing me when you definitely don’t.
You do make a good point though that the chaos is wasted if your remaining partners can’t shape it into a winning scenario.

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)

I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t land

I don't agree with the post. But I can see how and why she came to that conclusion so that makes it a great post.

I can’t help but find it interesting how Naerys calls Gamma and Hu Tao buddies only for both to swiftly townread her for it. Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?

You see, stuff like this is why I’m talking down to you, because it’s not the read itself, it’s the thought process around it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not saying there’s anything really wrong with the rest of that post. Just think the way it is written is imprecise to what is going on on my end at least

[Gamma Emerald]

?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma likes the 1v1 with the newbie.

?

I think town tends to just shrug off a push from a newbie. Scum tend to like getting into it with a newbie that's pushing them, as they may come out looking better from it.

Do you think I’m just trying to scrap? If so you’re sorely mistaken.

[Gamma Emerald]

hm.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m questioning that myself too; feel like he should be doing something more here regarding me given a game just wrapped that we were both in

[Gamma Emerald]

Wdym how so?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wdym how so?

Why would the other game affect what how he interacts with you?

I (well, my slot) flipped scum there and I think that would likely color his approach to me once that was revealed

[Gamma Emerald]

If so I would expect re-doubled efforts to case me

[Gamma Emerald]

What is a tinfoil hat?

An unlikely theory, basically

[Gamma Emerald]

E-1, that's like gonna lim soon? Why so quick? Anyway have to shoot the roundabout needs fixing and Gertrude needs her hay.


Boinnnng time for bed...

it's time to contribute
what's your opinion on the Townblock discourse

think you caught anyone spouting crap?

Until you pointed out there was an issue, as I say in my post above, I hadn't really had a think on it. Now that it has been raised, yeah I'm not too comfortable about it all. FD to me was and still is very confident, at first I thought that was a good thing, now not too happy with it.

As for peeps spouting poop. To be frank when I read your first posts, I thought you were spouting shit. Now it probably still stinks but its not as shitty.

Delta didn't really have much to say. until she got shoved.

Your opinion on the townblock situation doesn’t really feel relevant. I’m the central figure in it imo, so what’s your thoughts on me and my play?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, I took a look and correct me if I am missing a target here, in the first post you are saying that you have never really town blocked in D1? Then there is the second post, sort of confused so I’m guessing its me misreading the first post?

This is such a bullshit interpretation of my post. I said I’d done it before IN THAT VERY POST.

STOP THE CAP!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not going on offense yet because I’m trying to feel out where the scum is on my wagon, since I believe there’s at least one. But thanks for putting yourself on my radar by joining with bad logic.
I was gonna post my listing of how I felt about the non-Zebedee voters on me but while trying to pin down who I felt the best on I happened upon something questionable

@Naerys

: please explain your Hu Tao progression.

[Gamma Emerald]

This feels so disingenuous. Especially given later posts by GE around an example game where it specifically did not occur day 1. I get that GE is the current town wagon, but I want it on record that I don't like this at a

I was asked my Opinion so I gave it on what I was reading. In the post that you point at Margot I believe maybe it's 298 where the game is introduced, but please is she not saying she based her game play here on that game? She also says that she has played and won games almost

almost solely by townblocking on day 1. Don’t be a hater.

if that is the case then why is she saying that

I’m trying something sorta-different

: I’m going to try to form a townblock in EVERY game I play. I have done them before and even tried to do them in most games for a certain time period but I’ve never gone the total saturation route I think

if she has done it before is my thought. I do say that I am may be misunderstanding the post. which leads onto this

This is such a bullshit interpretation of my post. I said I’d done it before IN THAT VERY POST.

I’m saying that there should be zero room for doubt if you pay full attention while reading it so by doubting my meaning you call your own motives into question.

[Gamma Emerald]

but I don't think it makes this statement any more irrelevant, as it is a question that has not been answered because someone has a temper

But what’s your motive if you are scums to continue to fight your corner? Wouldn’t scums back down and say they made a mistake, or would town you be more open to back down and admit a mistake?

Who’s saying I made a mistake? I may be in hot water but what do you think happens when I flip scum/town? And that’s assuming this result in my immediate elimination.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not going on offense yet because I’m trying to feel out where the scum is on my wagon

who do you think is? Uppers? Or one of Naerys or Alianna? I don't think its Clappers.

Funny how Lucca has pinged me because of no input and yet he is missing others who haven't. just a thought.

what, where did Alianna vote me? I thought Delta was on me too

[Gamma Emerald]

Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum.

Yes, it's easy, because it actually is scummy.

If forming a 4-person town block on page 2 was a townie thing to do, it wouldn't be easy for scum (or town) to call it out.

You're saying that people are scummy for pointing out that you're doing a thing which you realize appears scummy.

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

"Calling me scummy for the scummy thing I did is an easy thing to do" Yes there is a reason as to why that's so easy

EBWOP Clap stole my zinger

Excellent, great minds etc!

This string of posts made me think Delta was voting me at some point, that was incorrect

[Gamma Emerald]

but I don't think it makes this statement any more irrelevant, as it is a question that has not been answered because someone has a temper

But what’s your motive if you are scums to continue to fight your corner? Wouldn’t scums back down and say they made a mistake, or would town you be more open to back down and admit a mistake?

Who’s saying I made a mistake? I may be in hot water but what do you think happens when I flip scum/town? And that’s assuming this result in my immediate elimination.

I am saying that everyone seems to be onto you making a town block so early day 1. some statements talk about an organic growth of a town block as the game progresses, So I am under the thought that you may have made a mistake. By saying what I have, I am trying to reason why you keep with your arguments. So if its not a mistake then you are sort of answering it, so I thinks maybe the question is, why are you so sure about it, the town block so early in a game?

As for your 'Flip' you mean if you are eliminated? then if this is so, and you are townie then we must look at who is targeting you and why. If you are scums then we look at who supported you or did nothing against you I suppose this would be correct?

I’ll go in reverse here: yes your thoughts on what to do after I’m eliminated as either alignment sound logical.
Wrt why so confident, it’s not really confidence in the townblock: I could be wrong, though I have seen little reason to suspect that to be the case. I’m mostly confident in a) my ability to identify town correctly enough to at least eventually construct a townblock that should win by sheer right of “even if scum are in it, the number outside the block is small enough that the outside pool can be gone through enough to prove the townblock incorrect before the game is lost”, and b) the content that has been generated by my actions proving useful to solving in the long run. You are within your right to think the early block was a mistake based on what I’ve talked about regarding past successes, but that was never the final step for me, just a foundation to work from.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not going on offense

would it not be correct to say that this is no longer a thing, considering your response to my not understanding of one of your posts?

Sorta: I’m being a bit more pointed but I’m not sure you’re scum yet. I’ll say one ping I’ve gotten from you that I haven’t addressed yet is the way you built towards voting me in 412. It felt like you couldn’t construct a sensible narrative to suspect me and decided to roll with a sort of “it’s too weird to call so let’s just kill it” approach. That’s definitely a card I’ve played as scum before, and it worked like a charm.

I thought Delta was on me too

so you think Delta is scums?

He could be. I have been trying to get a lock on him from the sidelines because I got an early vibe that a dialogue wouldn’t be productive. But I think I won’t be certain on how I feel without at least a little interaction.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Delta

Ah, interesting. I am guessing you’ve explained this at some point so I’ll look for that shortly.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok that helps a lot and sounds better to me. So I am no longer confident on my vote. But you really haven't answered to my other questions.

so you think Delta is scums?

and

who do you think is? Uppers? Or one of Naerys or Alianna? I don't think its Clappers.

Upwards feels like town but I think if his logic steps up a bit that’ll become more readable, so I’m trying to get him to think deeper.
Clap is up and down, I think he’s a pocketing liability though, which is not an alignment call at all, just something to point out for his sake.
Naerys I am kinda dizzying myself over: I missed the first part of 339 when I was ISOing which caused the read shift on Hu Tao to feel unjustified. But I still want more detail on that thought process. The part I initially liked for town was the idea that I was trying to position myself as town. On closer inspection, that doesn’t really hold up since in Naerys’ theoretical world where me + Hu Tao are scum, why would I have my scumbuddy from inside the block question me? Like, there’s arguments to be made for why me + Hu Tao could be scum together, but that isn’t one of them.
Alianna I need to check since I didn’t have her on my radar due to missing her vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorta: I’m being a bit more pointed but I’m not sure you’re scum yet. I’ll say one ping I’ve gotten from you that I haven’t addressed yet is the way you built towards voting me in 412. It felt like you couldn’t construct a sensible narrative to suspect me and decided to roll with a sort of “it’s too weird to call so let’s just kill it” approach. That’s definitely a card I’ve played as scum before, and it worked like a charm.

but one thing in my head, and again it is a small thing

was gonna post my listing of how I felt about the non-Zebedee voters on me but while trying to pin down who I felt the best on I happened upon something questionable
@Naerys: please explain your Hu Tao progression.

what does Naerys' progression on Hu have to do with those sitting on you? is the term wagon?

It is kinda to do with it, but that specific question wasn’t. I just saw “Hu Tao town” and then the idea that me + Hu Tao were scum together without seeing the part that addressed the earlier read. That doesn’t really relate to Naerys’ vote on me, but it was a thing that took me out of the space of townreading her thought she raised for why she voted me.

[Gamma Emerald]

This Alianna read is gonna be a second since she left before the heat really turned up on me I think

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Alianna is townish after combing all her posts

The combo of 157 + 161 stand out because I liked her going back to add more thoughts on the same post: I have a tell that scum like to condense their content and limit their thread availability so the opposite of that I feel like should be a towntell, and posting new ideas as you get them definitely falls into both not condensing content and making yourself more available to be interacted with.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m questioning that myself too; feel like he should be doing something more here regarding me given a game just wrapped that we were both in

In that game you were in a hydra and let the other head carry the slot, then you dropped out. I don't see where I'm going to learn much if anything about your solo play from that game. This is a very weak charge.

Okay

[Gamma Emerald]

If so I would expect re-doubled efforts to case me

Speaking of casing, you have a vote on me, but you're not really pushing me. Why is that? Am I your top scum read? If not, why haven't you moved your vote?

It’s kinda just been there
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Clap is up and down, I think he’s a pocketing liability though, which is not an alignment call at all, just something to point out for his sake.

How is this not an alignment call at all? Since you're pointing it out for my sake, rather than town's sake, you apparently know or think I'm town.

I think your mindset is one that risks pocketing if town, but that doesn’t make you town by itself. Pointing it out for your sake is since I don’t have a strong feeling that anyone in particular is pocketing you yet, so I am just giving you the warning directly.

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually like how Zeb engaged with me so this better be good, Delta

[Gamma Emerald]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I have a question for you: what do you think this is going to accomplish?

[Gamma Emerald]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I have a question for you: what do you think this is going to accomplish?

Pretty sure it would accomplish your elimination.

[Gamma Emerald]

bloop

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Naerys

If so I would expect re-doubled efforts to case me

Speaking of casing, you have a vote on me, but you're not really pushing me. Why is that? Am I your top scum read? If not, why haven't you moved your vote?

It’s kinda just been there
UNVOTE:

So you don't have a scum read that you want to vote, or even just someone you want to pressure for info.

I didn’t have any until just now

[Gamma Emerald]

OK, I misunderstood the reference.

That's fine. Overall my town read on you still stands because of everything else. But this goes to show that sometimes you can just misread a thread- which is how this whole line of conversation started, with my mistake on Lucca's post.

VOTE: Gamma,

but I would unvote if Gamma got to E-1

. I still want to get more information out of Alianna's replacement and to get some more activity in general going from people who are lower in the post counts. I'd also like Zeb to explain his vote, which seemed to come out of nowhere, and which made me think some things that I'll share after he explains.

Let's vote out delta please

How often do I get mentioned in the mafia PT?

You tell me

[Gamma Emerald]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I have a question for you: what do you think this is going to accomplish?

Potentially eliminating scum

are you sure about that? do you think announcing it increases the odds of that happening?

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you fuckers stop immediately assuming I am leaning towards suspecting someone when I ask them a question? It’s happened three times now I think

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes
Alianna and Zeb are the other 2

[Gamma Emerald]

I literally have players misrepresenting me from A to Z this game
ftr this isn’t the negative connotation misrepresentation per se, it’s just funnier if I say it this way

[Gamma Emerald]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I have a question for you: what do you think this is going to accomplish?

Potentially eliminating scum

are you sure about that? do you think announcing it increases the odds of that happening?

Yes

How exactly? As I it, that increases my chances of dying as toen and decreases them as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m aware but I still wanted to add some pressure to make sure you addressed it

[Gamma Emerald]

I was also being directly pressed to do something with my vote. So like, I see it as a fair and viable option to use my currently-inactive vote to place additional incentive to address my concerns. Plus, I think your approach to me is quite one-dimensional as of now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma are you willing to vote delta?

Not yet
I am gonna stay on Naerys until she actually answers my questions

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes
Alianna and Zeb are the other 2

So your scum reads are a newbie, an inactive, and someone who's being replaced.

NO YOU FUCKING MORON

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: claptastik
I literally just complained about what you were doing. DIE.

[Gamma Emerald]

No, there’s just some symptoms of being terminally online from some of y’all
I even fucking said I townread every single one of the people I was calling out with that before that post. You were 100% fishing for a reason to make me look bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually like how Zeb engaged with me so this better be good, Delta

I think Alianna is townish after combing all her posts
The combo of 157 + 161 stand out because I liked her going back to add more thoughts on the same post: I have a tell that scum like to condense their content and limit their thread availability so the opposite of that I feel like should be a towntell, and posting new ideas as you get them definitely falls into both not condensing content and making yourself more available to be interacted with.

I think my read on FD has been pretty unambiguous so I don’t need a specific quote
The only part open to interpretation is my Zeb read, which you could have, I don’t know,

asked about it

, but you instead leapt at the chance to shade me further.

[Gamma Emerald]

No, there’s just some symptoms of being terminally online from some of y’all
I even fucking said I townread every single one of the people I was calling out with that before that post. You were 100% fishing for a reason to make me look bad.

I don't need to fish for a reason to make you look bad. You're doing that well enough on your own.

But OK, do you have any other scum reads?

Who are your town reads?

my working theory for who is scum is you + one of Naerys or Delta + someone off-wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

I think my townreads are generally pretty known so I don’t understand why you don’t seem to be processing them, but to give some updates: out of my original townblock, FD is the one I trust the most still. gypyx is still alright but I feel a lack of new stuff to feel good about. HT I just have a playstyle issue with so she’s probably still trustworthy but her status as townblock material is questionable. Alianna and Zeb I would potentially place above gypyx and/or HT but I’m not worrying about those degrees of striation rn. Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think.
Margot kinda strikes me as not having much of an agenda but I currently perceive her as just taking potshots at my wagon, I think more granular inspection would be better.

[Gamma Emerald]

What's your read on Margot?

To put it simply, null town

[Gamma Emerald]

Lucca seems pretty towny too
I should look over Lap because if he feels town then that means my bar’s too low as by my expectations, scum would have to be clearing it

[Gamma Emerald]

The FD vote has little to do with the Gamma wagon. Zeb's interaction with the Gamma wagon does though.

So what reeks about the gamma wagon? If FD and Zeb are scum, that means the gamma wagon is at least 4/5 town.

I meant that there was scum on it somewhere. I'm certainly not ruling out anyone who was on the wagon, but I definitely have a scum lean on Zeb, and I see FD as the kind of player who wouldn't eagerly jump onto a miselim especially immediately after an intense line of questioning. Will have to check the back catalogue at some point to be sure tho

What do you think of my reads rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

That feels like a cop out

[Gamma Emerald]

@GammaEmerald
You've got your towncore posted, but any scumreads?

Clap is a scumlean because the meta point feels half-baked
I can’t remember anything else pinging me

ftr this point about the half-baked meta is tied to my later critique of his lack of any feeling about the scumgame of mine that ended recently: even if I was not that active I was still present, plus he seemed opinionated in the dead PT so I thought he had some thoughts on me that would carry over into his approach on me here

[Gamma Emerald]

Which posts give that vibe?

[Gamma Emerald]

320 was not a reaction to Hu Tao in the slightest

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

"Calling me scummy for the scummy thing I did is an easy thing to do" Yes there is a reason as to why that's so easy

EBWOP Clap stole my zinger

Excellent, great minds etc!

This was what the smh was for, this little circlejerk

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)

I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t land

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)

I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t land

I don't agree with the post. But I can see how and why she came to that conclusion so that makes it a great post.

Honestly the exchange here feels rather unfinished.

It honestly is, but I am focused on other things rn

[Gamma Emerald]

@Hu Tao

why is Margot scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

[Gamma Emerald]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Why not? I think Upwards is town anyway but I’m curious what you’re thinking there

@Gamma how's your Hu Tao read going? I guess you've got her in the townblock but i'd be interested on where's your mind about her

She’s a townread, but I am hesitant to townblock her with my current configuration. She’s on the edge of it for now, I’ll say.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well fuck you too

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve said the same thing so I don’t know why you’re beefing, Delta

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re misunderstanding the meaning of what I did
I wasn’t just trying to join your pair, I was trying to take the pairs of me + gypyx and you + FD and weld them together

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Hu Tao is just being extraordinarily petty this game in her reasoning

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Laplacian
I want to actually put the wheels in motion here.

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

*persuasion can come in the form of arguments, being the only valid slot when day is almost over, or if i get to hammer

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

This is just a massive letdown after hyping himself up.

[Gamma Emerald]

Got anything useful to say?

[Gamma Emerald]

So you were prodging, okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like this talking is just a buzzing noise, leading us nowhere

What talking, people coming to an agreement that Lap is suspicious?

[Gamma Emerald]

No. Lap is town 100%

Now I know you’re capping. There is zero reason you should be townreading that ISO

[Gamma Emerald]

No. Lap is town 100%

Now I know you’re capping. There is zero reason you should be townreading that ISO

So am I scum then if I'm lying?

Are admitting you don’t have a valid reason to TR Lap?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re misunderstanding the meaning of what I did
I wasn’t just trying to join your pair, I was trying to take the pairs of me + gypyx and you + FD and weld them together

We had like 20 pages of people, me included, phrasing your welding together as building a four player town block / towncore. Why did it take so long for you to clarify this?

Because Hu Tao is the only one who is so self-involved to think it’s about her block with FD specifically

[Gamma Emerald]

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

Source???

[Gamma Emerald]

I think if someone can’t handle getting voted out D1 as a newb, they might not have think enough skin for this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

From what I can tell, Lap's big sin is that he gave a low-effort read list and then OMGUS'ed Lucca. Is that the case against him?

My big issue is he promised good content and gave 3 mediocre posts in the promised hour (this timeframe us metaphorical)

[Gamma Emerald]

So apparently any time I try to do anything I’m the devil. GOT IT.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you’re shit at finding scum

[Gamma Emerald]

You gonna try forming another townblock any time soon?

I’ve kinda done that already but it hasn’t been formalized

[Gamma Emerald]

From what I can tell, Lap's big sin is that he gave a low-effort read list and then OMGUS'ed Lucca. Is that the case against him?

My big issue is he promised good content and gave 3 mediocre posts in the promised hour (this timeframe us metaphorical)

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you're voting for Lap because you think he's scum, not as a pressure vote. The reasoning you gave sounds like it would be for a pressure vote.

Well it’s not. Lap had his shot and blew it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question about

my chess ELO

?

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
idk maybe Lap is so fucking out there that he’s town

[Gamma Emerald]

I can’t seriously be that incomprehensible that no one can get my reason for voting Lap correct?

[Gamma Emerald]

GE, it really feels like you hop around where the winds take you. You went from affirming your vote as a vote for scum and then unvoting 3 minutes later.

Okay and? I was affirming my vote as for scum instead of for pressure. Me flipping my opinion doesn’t alter the reasoning for my vote. I think you might be confused and thinking my scumread was stronger than it was?

[Gamma Emerald]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question about

my chess ELO

?

That question was for me was it not? I feel like there’s too much upset confusion and too little real logic going on atm.

Yes, Elo was for you and not gamma. Basically, I didn't like your dubious sacrifice analogy earlier. Askes Elo to see if it was just a surface comparison or a deliberately bad reframing

There was no other question in that post. Lunatic

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Consider this me proxying Hu Tao’s vote onto me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I'm having more town reads than scumreads at this point

Um yeah that’s normal, there’s more town than scum, at least there should be in a well-balanced game

The dynamics of 2 of you feel different.Are you town?

Didn't you say I was town already? And gamma is one of my favorites to play with.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sehr interessant.

You’re also obnoxious

[Gamma Emerald]

If you actually enjoyed playing with me, you wouldn’t go out of your way to annoy me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alianna and Upwards are town imo
Clap and Hu could be town but atp they deserve pressure

[Gamma Emerald]

Sehr interessant.

You’re also obnoxious

You should take a break from mafia. @ gamma

Every time I take a break I feel shit gets worse upon my return. The only way to break people of their bad choices is to be on their asses constantly, imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Wagon was Alianna, Claptastik, Upwards, Naerys, DeltaWave, Laplacian and, by proxy, Hu. Zeb got on and jumped off

if Gamma isn't just scum trolling, kinda think all three scum are on this list

Idk, I still really don't like FD, but I think at least two are, and I think if Zeb and FD are partners, Zeb would have stayed on.

The wagon felt a little foregone conclusion by that point though, so it's hard to say. I thought Gamma could be saved up to the end, but here we are

Zeb and FD are my confident townreads off-wagon so I would like if you looked elsewhere tomorrow

[Gamma Emerald]

If you're town, how did the self vote play to win condition?

It’s crystal clear that as long as I’m in the game, people will find/force/make up reasons to suspect me. This tajes the easy option off the table.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you're town, how did the self vote play to win condition?

Means it had control over when hammer happened, so she could give honest and open reads before the day ended I'd guess

I am annoyed by the self-hammer because I wanted Alinna's replacement to participate before the day was over. The only person who expressed an intention to quickhammer was Hu and he backed off that. I didn't expect GE to do it herself.

As I see it, the reason Hu stepped back was to torment me more. I decided to thwart her on that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can handle being voted out, but I dislike being treated like a toy to be played with. Fucking cope harder.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hu Tao and Clap are officially black-balled from the townblock

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m just vanilla, and I don’t believe she was ever going to pivot away from pushing me. So I just sped along the inevitable.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have to go to bed. Gg whatever you are. And seriously, consider quitting mafia. There's plenty of other hobbies that aren't mind fucks.

I’ve tried and it never lasts
But also like, rude

[Gamma Emerald]

But you were never going to townread me because you never townread me.

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve yet to effectively demonstrate otherwise