Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[DragonEater70]

I don't really know you but I do have an inkling that you are probably a cool person

Does that sound better?

[DragonEater70]

And feel free to give the "things that make dragon more likely scum" list whenever you want, no pressure.

[DragonEater70]

Goodnight for now.

[DragonEater70]

Oh one last thing before I go to sleep: if anyone's wondering why I am not voting fireisred (I know I am), it's because I don't get how could they be partnered with anyone. Like I guess they could be partnered with Klick, but that'd necessitate believing Klick managed to pocket both me and DV and now prefers to bus his partner than just go for the mislim on me and THEN bus his partner.
And I guess they could be partnered with T3 but that would require T3/Kyo just waiying patiently to lose until I randomly let them in the coalition and then T3/fire, in the same game they eaited patiently to lose, powerwolfing and being the only two people on a wagon.
And I guess they make some sense as an implosion partner, especially because implosion hasn't really voted them yet, and I guess that would mean Klick was right and I was a dummy for changing the coalition, (but it'd also mean my page 6 solve was correct ), bit that'd mean the scum had the weirdest gameplan ever of just spending as much as theyccan distancing and bussing, which might actually be the case and I guess I'd talked myself into thinking it could be fire/implo.
I'll need to review this team tomorrow or Tuesday or whenever it is I have time to properly sit and read.

[T3]

I've caught up.

I'm a bit tired of thinking about DragonEater's alignment in this game in general. Because there's a lack of clarity as to his perceived and actual scum range, and I haven't a clue what a DragonEater scum game would actually look like if he drew red here. Contrast that with feeling like I know what a fire scum game would look like - very similar to a town one, and what we're seeing currently. This description encapsulates why I am uncertain here.

I feel sort of rotationally similar to this, in that I think I'm being convinced that I have a pretty murky picture of what a DragonEater scum game would look like but I think I do know what his town game would look like if he had drawn green here and it's pretty much this picture. I am remembering that fire is a player I have historically figured that I probably just can't read well at all. I feel like fire's reasons for "this could be Dragon's scum game" in 1285 are in essence compelling reasons for exactly that, that the way Dragon played around the coalition is not a reason to locktown Dragon because it can come from Dragon-scum. But "this thing people are locktowning Dragon for could come from Dragon as scum" is not strictly a reason to scumread Dragon, and it's not even necessarily an argument that that thing Dragon did isn't on net more likely to come from him as town than as scum. I feel like the wholistic read of Dragon's ISO at this point just makes it hard for me to believe that it's not his town game, and it's possible that

i

am town tunneling him but things like him calling T3 scum for taking 4 minutes to read a post and his (I agree with fire here) very uninspiring logic in 1348 are, I think, also evidence of him being town because I just don't understand what reasons he has to post those things as scum. The former just alienates T3 if T3 is town and looks really weird and attention-draw-y if they're scum together, the latter is the kind of thing that I feel is very easy to post when you have the brazenness of actually being town and very hard to decide to post when you're in this public 1v1 as scum and you're trying to play the crowd or whatever.

I mean sure?

[T3]

I still don't get how I'm supposed to differentiate brazen scum from brazen town

[DeasVail]

I feel reassured I think. Dragon's hesitation on fire being scum is another one of those things that feel unnecessary for him to do as scum, because I feel like he could pretty easily just go for the fire elim, and even if he

did

get eliminated the next day, I

probably

get mislimmed at the end in that world? I suppose I could see Dragon-scum wanting to keep fire-town alive to avoid fire gaining greater credibility in death, and I could understand that he wouldn't want to necessarily rely on me getting auto-limmed, but still, the way he's gone about his interactions with fire don't make that much sense in that case. Why be so exaggerated about fire being scum in earlier posts, only to not proceed with eliminating them?

I kind of do agree with the general thought of not being able to find a scumteam that makes complete sense here. The reason why I had landed at T3/Fire as a possibility was that, based on what T3 has posted here, I could see him as scum correcting past wrongs by

not

trying to look town early on, and kyouko's play did make sense from scum on the outside of an all-town coalition. They successfully fuelled paranoia on me in particular, which ultimately was what knocked me out of the coalition.

[Appearance]

i think i might just iso fire for now and reread later.
so i can get some content out.

[Appearance]

might also iso dragon too.

[T3]

based on what T3 has posted here, I could see him as scum correcting past wrongs by not trying to look town early on

???

[DragonEater70]

T3 can you link the last completed town games you won/lost, respectively?

[T3]

T3 can you link the last completed town games you won/lost, respectively?

Most recent loss: viewtopic.php?t=91787

Most recent win: viewtopic.php?t=90701 (this was back in March, I've lost 8 town games since then)

[T3]

I won 2 games on alts more recently but both of those alts had totally different playstyles and as such as are probably not all that useful

[DeasVail]

I think DV's play today is town very very frequently. Trying to undermine and dismantle a 1v1 between two people on coalition feels like very needlessly anti-wincon play if it's TvT, and if it's SvT then it's more possible but the way he's doing it feels like the way I'd expect him to act as town.

Dragon, why do you think T3/kyo is a very unlikely team? Based on coalition dynamics, or otherwise?

See, I see the possibility of DV being scum with exactly Klick, but I decided to just plain give up on that possibility because I don't see a world where we win if they are the scum team.

T3/Kyo couldn't be acum together because they just lurked for forever with no attempt to get anything done but I guess it did feel scummy for both of them individually and maybe I am in fact assigning too much credit to the idea that scum necessarily would have high WIM or a plan.

Like if fireisred flips scum here then tbh the person I am gonna lock as town as a result is DV, not T3.

I played this setup once before as scum and my WIM was very high, so high that it was very obvious I was just trying to get townread rather than solve the game - Enchant was my partner and I thought it would be absolutely impossible for him to get into the coalition so I tryharded and it backfired

[DeasVail]

The above post is what I was referring to, T3

[T3]

oh I see

[DragonEater70]

Thanks T3

I did a VERY brief skim of your ISO in both games you linked and interestingly I found the one where you lost to have a noticeable difference in vibe / mindset / posting style or whatever to your scum game and also to this game, while the one you won was more similar to this game but also to your scumgame.

So it wasn't very helpful overall except maybe show that I think your scum game sounds similar to your town game most likely.

[Klick]

And I guess they could be partnered with T3 but that would require T3/Kyo just waiying patiently to lose until I randomly let them in the coalition and then T3/fire, in the same game they eaited patiently to lose, powerwolfing and being the only two people on a wagon.

I think this mischaracterises Kyouko's play
I think Kyouko fought rather hard to change the status quo

It makes sense when arguing T3's perspective, but I don't think that's disqualifying of T3-scum in this circumstance
I think I lean fire/T3 as my overall answer

[Appearance]

i think i would prefer fire over dragon tbh for today.

[Appearance]

mainly since i tr dragon more.

[fireisredsir]

i guess this is the point where i should like interrogate people's reasons to scumread me to determine which of them are legitimate reads but i don't usually find much success in that approach

i think even though all of the reasons given so far are pretty vague i read them and mostly go "yeah fair okay" with the main exception being dragon

it is possible that im tunneled partially due to that i dunno

as much as i would like to clear appearance i don't think my reasons for doing so are like amazing or infallible here

[DragonEater70]

implosion who do you plan to vote rn?

[implosion]

implosion who do you plan to vote rn?

I think fire is the best lim.

I think fire/t3 is perfectly viable but also I don't think someone "needs" to have a viable partner to be a good lim, I think in a world where there are 5 people who could theoretically be a partner, even if there were good reasons to discount all 5 of them, the summation of those 5 reasons would not amount to a good reason to not lim the person, especially since a coalition game gives scum plenty of opportunities to potentially make plays that rule out their partnership.

I'm mostly not voting right now because I still would like more from Appearance ideally but I'm not opposed to ending the day for the sake of moving things forward if people are feeling like they want a flip.

[DragonEater70]

I don't think you are gonna get more from Appearance tbh

[DeasVail]

i think ppl should vote