Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

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hi y'all!
will post more later

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Happy new year everyone

happy new year's!

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implo and t3 prob town for now.

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btw, i just realised my browser messes up the font that prism uses for the vcs

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tbh i'm scared of scum distancing in this setup.

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elements maybe town for not focusing so much on forming a townblock.

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ngl best thing about this setup is townhunting is easier for me.

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elements maybe town for not focusing so much on forming a townblock.

half my posts are about towning T3?

i would say that since t3 is a consensus tr at this point, i don't see scum!you benefiting much for doing something that implo has done too and was sred for

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HEAL: element, t3

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elements maybe town for not focusing so much on forming a townblock.

half my posts are about towning T3?

i would say that since t3 is a consensus tr at this point, i don't see scum!you benefiting much for doing something that implo has done too and was sred for

do you have any concerns about t3 being so town read so early?

for now, i'm ok with t3 tho he hasn't done too much so might be worth it later to reaccess reads on him.

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tbh i'm scared of scum distancing in this setup.

this was actually something I was thinking too.

Was it klick/dragoneater that pinged you as a potential distance as well, or more of a general fear?

more of a general fear based a quick read through of the last coalition game i found.
in that, this setup encourages distancing as a scum tactic.
tho klick/dragon did add to my worries of potential distancing.

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actually, on rereading klick/dragon maybe really wasn't that distance-y.
and on catching up, i think ydra seems ok.

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Appearance, what's your read on T3?

i still feel good enough about him to keep him in the coalition

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Okay, why?

it's going to sound dumb but it's mostly vibes.
he doesn't done that much so i could be wrong for sure.

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catching up

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dragon might actually be town here now that i think about it.
scum wouldn't be this upset about having to form trs.

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HEAL: dragon

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HEAL: ydra

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Appearance can you talk to me about your reads a bit

Just in general, why do you TR the people in your coal and who do you think is scummy

i think i've explained most of my reads in the coalition minus ydra.
re: ydra, it's more so the way that she's been posting. there's a level of genuineness there and also, she seems to be trying to poke.
idk. mainly that sort of mindset usually makes me think of town.

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Also are you an alt? Somebody mentioned you were an alt

yeah.
i'm a secret alt.

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Pedit: I meant like explain in detail

Also, who do you scumread?

oh.
the first part's hard since t3 is just vibes.
you and elements is for content.
you, because you were discontent with tring people, elements for not exclusively concerned with forming a coalition earlier.
ydra is for tone.

for the second part, idk. i can't read implo/dv well tbh.
klick could be town, i guess? but idk.
kyouko, i think could also be town. her analysis seems solid.

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So if I get it correctly you have no scumreads at all?

technically, yes.
tho i'm going to reread implo and dv's isos later today.
since if klick/kyouko are town, then those two will be in the poe by default.
of course i could be wrong on t3.

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btw, i just realised it's elements bday (or maybe my timezone is early).
just in case, happy bday, elements!

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@Appearance, considering that right now the most viable colaition builds seem to be something along the lines of Dragon/VD/Klick + 2 out of {Elements, Ydrasse, Appearance}*, would you endeavor to read both Klick and VD and tell me what do you think about adding them to the coalition?

sure.
i ended up hiking yesterday so i'll read dv's iso today.

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klick, i think seems fine.
i'm going to read that tm game that klick linked in more detail later but it looks like dv was scum there.
would prob be good to compare his iso here to his iso there.

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admittedly tho, if both dv and klick is town, then i'm prob misreading t3/kyouko, leaning t3.

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which means that my current coalition could be wrong in that world.

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the reason why i'm leaning t3 is moreso my reason for the initial tr not being based in content/tone but rather just vibes.
and i've been wrong on vibes before.

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HEAL: klick

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HURT: t3
HEAL: kyouko

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i feel better about this coalition.

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klick, dragon, elements, kyouko, ydra
the reason being that t3 has pretty much ended up being nulltown for me now and it's no really worth keeping him in the coalition anymore

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i'm going to be busy today
will post more later
sorry

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I've reread through the game but I really don't have much to say

what are ur reads then?

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fmpov u seem to have slight trs on implo+me

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ugh.
i'm so tempted to put dv in my coalition.
i think i'd go with ydra's but with her swapped with me.
HURT: kyouko
HEAL: dv

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so my current coalition would be elements, dragon, ydra, klick, dv.

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Still kinda demotivated. Partially for RL reasons but mostly in game.

There's a world where 361 is dragon + one of DV/Klick as scum and Dragon sees an excuse to try to replace the double-scum coalition that's been building with a single-scum coalition. That would also mirror my play in the scum coalition game I mentioned. In that sense that when the game was going well, I went a bit out of my way to try to get the other scum off of the coalition (when that plan failed, I had to bus them on the first lim).

I think if that is the case, it's not really actionable now (aside from just keeping the original coalition Dragon suggested rather than switching). Or rather it's not like, something that's going to make me want to lim one of those people if the coalition fails, more of a "if the game gets to final 5 and dragon + either klick or DV are alive, remember to look back at this".

fmpov a lot of all the current speculation coming from like klick and dragon (especially klick) is kind of blasé because yeah, I agree with the analysis that if I'm town the coalition is likely to fail and beyond that there's not really much to say >_>. I don't think there are any politically feasible coalitions that are likely to succeed right now. That said I am waning on my specific feeling of Dragon being scum. While 361 makes a lot of sense in the specific case I mentioned, outside of that it's kind of a thing that I wouldn't expect scum to do in the gamestate, it's a bit of a rocking-the-boat action to remove those two from the coalition and I think Dragon is probably mostly happy to ride the wave of the gamestate if he's scum, modulo needing to possibly dodge a double scum coalition.

implo, if dragon is scum, why is he in your coalition?
if u are town, wouldn't u be better off with a coalition without dragon?

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on a reread tho, it looks like u aren't really sring dragon so ignore my previous post.

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tho, i legit have no idea why u've brought up ur ideal coalition but has actually voted for anybody in there minus elements.

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i kinda feel like at this point, even demotivated town would want to get a coalition out there.

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it could end up being wrong, sure, but it's better than having no coalition and nothing to work with.

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i mean actually, we do have something to work with.

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as in the people who were against making a coalition

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tho really, with a bit more than 1 and a half days left, i feel everybody should at least have a coalition down
p-edit: this is more of a general thought i have

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btw, t3, what is ur ideal coalition?
p-edit: implo seemed pretty on the fence so i wasn't sure if he was actually sring u or preparing to.

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also, i doubt scum!implo votes for any of the coalitions rn.

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because he srs u presumably and thinks one of klick/dv is scum with u

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as in he's preparing to sr u anyways

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it is of note tho that neither elements nor dv have voted on a coalition despite being in multiple proposals

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ngl i'm starting to worry that scum's plan is not to get into a coalition but to prevent us from forming one.
p-edit: implo's subtlely moving down the 'dragon is scum if coalition fails' path despite him previously sring me/dv and tring u. his latest posts seem to be preparing for if a coalition fails, in which case he can blame on u being scum.
fmpov town!implo puts aside his pride and votes for a coalition, instead of what he's been doing rn

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tbh that i should check if implo is usually this prideful

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because it doesn't seem like he's been playing to make any compromises

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even when they can either let us win d1 or at least provide us good info

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enough of me talking to myself, i guess

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Yeah okay

I see what you mean

I think the solve is just implo/Klick or implo/DV

do u think that implo is distancing?
last time implo ended up bussing std and carrying the scumteam to a win.

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actually, let me check ur iso.

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in case, u mentioned it and i glossed over it.

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anyways, gn

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catching up now

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@Appearance, can you talk me through the reasoning for the changes in your coalition from 342/343/382?

i healed klick because i started to feel at that time that he could possible be towny. it was mostly based of his content and tone. i swapped u and t3 because i started to feel that t3 had lost the aura that initially drew me in and u felt more likely to be town.
i swapped u with dv because i started feeling like he was being too nuanced for how i thought scum would act.
tho really, i would say that u and dv are both townish to me.
my current solve would prob be implo/t3 because neither really seem to have done much pro-town things, tho moreso t3 than implo.

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that being said t3 focusing on implo is also a major factor.
and the only tr i think he seems to have is me? from like ages ago and it was something along the lines of "appearance is likely town but i don't know his experience"

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From my perspective we've already mindmelded several times and I'm fairly annoyed that we've gone from likely winning to the current position off of you getting antsy

This point is going to look really really funny if you are town and DV is scum and then we win by swapping you and DV for Kyo and Ydra.

It would look even funnier if all four of you are town and the scumteam is exactly T3/implo but idk if that's the case.

i mean, what has t3 done this whole phase?
tbh i'm all for you including ydra and kyo in the coalition.

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but at this point, it's very likely t3 is either scum or dead weight.

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so, it would not surprise me if scum is exactly t3/implo.

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we have less than a day left now so i want everybody on a coalition.

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From my perspective we've already mindmelded several times and I'm fairly annoyed that we've gone from likely winning to the current position off of you getting antsy

This point is going to look really really funny if you are town and DV is scum and then we win by swapping you and DV for Kyo and Ydra.

It would look even funnier if all four of you are town and the scumteam is exactly T3/implo but idk if that's the case.

i mean, what has t3 done this whole phase?
tbh i'm all for you including ydra and kyo in the coalition.

but at this point, it's very likely t3 is either scum or dead weight.

so, it would not surprise me if scum is exactly t3/implo.

????

I'm probably misreading this but are you saying you think it's implo/T3 simply because T3 is either scum or dead weight, and you arbitrarily decided he's scum rather than dead weight?

it's also partially poe based since t3 is null at best for me.
dv/klick/kyo are townleans.
ydra/elements/you are town.
that leaves t3/implo as scum.

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From my perspective we've already mindmelded several times and I'm fairly annoyed that we've gone from likely winning to the current position off of you getting antsy

This point is going to look really really funny if you are town and DV is scum and then we win by swapping you and DV for Kyo and Ydra.

It would look even funnier if all four of you are town and the scumteam is exactly T3/implo but idk if that's the case.

i mean, what has t3 done this whole phase?
tbh i'm all for you including ydra and kyo in the coalition.

but at this point, it's very likely t3 is either scum or dead weight.

so, it would not surprise me if scum is exactly t3/implo.

????

I'm probably misreading this but are you saying you think it's implo/T3 simply because T3 is either scum or dead weight, and you arbitrarily decided he's scum rather than dead weight?

it's also partially poe based since t3 is null at best for me.
dv/klick/kyo are townleans.
ydra/elements/you are town.
that leaves t3/implo as scum.

as in this is where my reads are rn.

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of course if the coalition with klick/dv does fail, then i'm open to be proven wrong.

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it looks like the version of the coalition with me is prevailing.

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HURT: all
HEAL: elements, dragon, klick, dv, appearance

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i'm catching up

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Do we generally agree outside of implosion that DragonEater is just town?

yeah.
i would consider dragon my most confident tr.

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just in case
HEAL: dragon, klick, ydra, kyouko, appearance

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so there's scum among us five then

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well, gob, what are your preliminary reads?

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if u haven't read up, just iso me, dragon, klick, ydra and kyouko.

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we're in the day phase now btw, gob

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tho correct me if i'm wrong but u think 3/5 in the coalition could be scum?

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To my knowledge, town wins if we form a 5 pizza kids coaltion (who are all town) on Day 1.

Correct me if I am wrong.

we already formed a coalition
that happened during the coalition phase.

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and it failed with 3 of ur srs.

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so u could be right on two.

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we're in the day phase now btw, gob

Huh? why are you clarifying this?

because u were acting like we're in the coalition phase.

tho correct me if i'm wrong but u think 3/5 in the coalition could be scum?

no the 5 i listed are the people i think are pizza kids

i was talking about the actual coalition that failed not the one u wanted

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sorry if i'm coming off as rude tho.

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this is why i didnt wanna be in the coalition -_-

hatred and rage

i would agree here.

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i'm going to reassess my reads on kyouko/klick.

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i still think gob is town.
not knowing what phase we're in feels unlikely to come from scum

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that being said, everybody outside of coalition should be immune to eliminations for now.

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implo is prob town tho to me now.

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tbh i'm prob going to vote for either kyouko or klick rn in terms of those two being my weakest reads in the coalition.

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anyways, that's all from me rn.

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I'm actually really pissed off that you did that

Like there's a reason it's a secret alt

i am just going to pretend i never saw t3 mention ur alt and that i had no idea beforehand it was ur alt.

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tho u aren't the only one who has had their alts outed before.

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To my knowledge, town wins if we form a 5 pizza kids coaltion (who are all town) on Day 1.

Correct me if I am wrong.

we already formed a coalition
that happened during the coalition phase.

Okay i see. I think we eliminate outside of teh coalition then.

as in ur proposed coalition?
the one that ended up being voted on failed so scum has to be in it.

sorry if i'm coming off as rude tho.

No its all good, clearly I was misinformed and I apologize.

Kyouko does seem hesitant which is usually how she is as scum.

that's good then.

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tbh i have opposing views with kyuoko on gob and t3 on dragon.
in that, gob did genuinely feel like he had no idea what was going on and scum might've checked with their buddies first.
and for dragon, he seems to actually have a somewhat good grasp of the game. he changes his reads due to apprehension but i don't know if i'd call that flailing.

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should i be worried that kyouko's reasoning actually makes sense?

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tho the part on dv is weird.
as we wouldn't have known if the other coalition would've passed or not.

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I'm going to try not to belabor the alt outing; I think it's sort of silly to complain about because effectively Dragon has been playing this game with a meta advantage of knowing that I've been talking about him the entire time without knowing it, which is irksome. It definitely does color some things. On the one hand, the fact that I compared this to Dragon's town game without knowing that it was Dragon's town game is perhaps a good sign that this is Dragon's town game.

On the other hand, it makes me revisit the caution I had early about how he was playing toward me. I feel my play this game is

markedly

different from my play in that other coalition game. I feel like there's no reason Dragon should be tunneling me as town when he has that game to compare this one to. I could imagine him being unsure but the, imo, thinly veiled dismissiveness with which he's approached me all game, even now after the coalition has failed, is angering. I don't really understand why there are multiple slots calling him scummy. gob is ostensibly calling things scummy with no reason and I don't agree those things ares scummy, and T3 popping in for that one sentence is meaningless to me without any context. I have a hard time divorcing the annoyance and anger against Dragon still saying that he's assuming I'm scum after the coalition I've said was going to fail all game (in fact, something that took that coalition and then

removed my top townread from it

) from his alignment. It's infuriating and I've been trying to ignore it but in light of this new info I'm really just pissed off.

so u are mad that you didn't know dragon knew your meta and ignored it?
but u still think he's town.
just checking to make sure i'm not misinterpreting.
tho, do u think ignoring meta is nai or would u say that doing so could be deliberate?

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tho the part on dv is weird.
as we wouldn't have known if the other coalition would've passed or not.

I wasn't thinking about whether it would have passed, I was thinking I really just want to vote DV right now but it doesn't make sense to start outside the coalition since we

know

there's at least 1 scum in the coalition. So those 2 thoughts together = "i wish DV were in the coalition" - "instead of Klick" comes because I associate the two together but DV is the one I individually SR and Klick feels like he could be getting snowed due to his familiarity with DV. So I'd much rather go DV first in a regular mountainous game with no coalition info

i see.
i think i get it now.

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so u are mad that you didn't know dragon knew your meta and ignored it?
but u still think he's town.
just checking to make sure i'm not misinterpreting.
tho, do u think ignoring meta is nai or would u say that doing so could be deliberate?

I think on the whole he's still town. I'm probably overweighting or overthinking the way he's playing toward me because the essence of his play is *very* similar to what I apparently know of his towngame, and I think the things I've thought were townie still apply. I just do not fucking understand why he's on my ass the way he has been and why he's basically forced me to the sidelines and is now refusing to rethink things after the coalition failed. I'm guessing he probably will eventually. I'm sort of mad about the meta thing but mostly I'm just mad that he's been approaching me with what feels like thinly veiled refusal to engage or rethink after an initial scumread that's turned into a tunnel

i see.
i feel like dragon could be one of those players whose has a playstyle that's prone to tunnelling.
or he thinks that ur scum again since in the last coalition game, which u both were in, u were widely tred and carried the team to a win. he could've just convinced himself that anything u do is prob coming from scum. regardless if true or not.

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tbh it's not that hard to misread u.
imho u are pretty much someone who i'd say is generally hard to read.

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dragon, don't u think implo would realise that he'd be obvscum if he stuck to the same playstyle for two coalition games in a row?
p-edit:

implosion: "I am not going to belabor the alt thing"

*immediately proceeds to belabor it*

Additionally, no you are wrong. Yes I did have an additional advantage of reading you this game. Part of my gut ping on you being scum was that your entrance was incredibly similar to the last game. Your gameplay has been different but the circumstances have also been different. I am calling you out for being in your scum meta, which includes trying to be thoughtful and neutral in your approach. Amd the fact that I am in my town game, despite nobody here having that meta so I could get towncred for me, should make you locktown me unless you think I would just imitate meta that doesn't exist as scum. The talk about how it's scummy to think you are scum is extremely disingenuous.

VOTE: implo

Wanted to do this since page 2.

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dragon, don't u think implo would realise that he'd be obvscum if he stuck to the same playstyle for two coalition games in a row?
p-edit:

implosion: "I am not going to belabor the alt thing"

*immediately proceeds to belabor it*

Additionally, no you are wrong. Yes I did have an additional advantage of reading you this game. Part of my gut ping on you being scum was that your entrance was incredibly similar to the last game. Your gameplay has been different but the circumstances have also been different. I am calling you out for being in your scum meta, which includes trying to be thoughtful and neutral in your approach. Amd the fact that I am in my town game, despite nobody here having that meta so I could get towncred for me, should make you locktown me unless you think I would just imitate meta that doesn't exist as scum. The talk about how it's scummy to think you are scum is extremely disingenuous.

VOTE: implo

Wanted to do this since page 2.

I think implo has not been actively trying to play the game the same way. BUT I think he's in his scum meta.

I am going to go read his play in Toriel's game to compare though.

i see.

Okay I am going to ask all of you kindly and especially implosion not to bring the alt thing into the conversation.

will do.

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At this stage I think I would go for either Appearance or Kyouko

for me, it'd be klick or kyouko still.
tho kyouko makes pretty sensible posts so i'm conflicted.

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honestly the thought of actually looking closely at Appearance's ISO gives me stomach pain because I have no idea how to interpret anything he says as alignment-indicative.

i think that everybody seems to think that (minus maybe dragon)

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tbh at this point, i might as well VOTE: kyouko
mainly because she's my lower tl.

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Re: Ydrasse, I actually (possibly illogically) liked the timing of the dip in motivation. At least from my perspective of playing this setup for the first time, there was always the hope that I wouldn’t have to play anymore after the coalition phase, so afterwards was a bit of a slump for me. I expect scum would have been more energised by the coalition failing.

It sounded to me like she was saying it was for RL reasons, in which case I think the dip itself is not indicative

agreed.
i wouldn't read into it too much.

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@mod: v/la from 21 jan to 29 jan

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reading up now.

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You're voting me because I was your weakest TR. You remember my weakest TR don't you?

kyouko raises a good point imo.

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implo, i'm not sure if u already answered this but how much of ur dunn vote is due to ydra and how much is due to dunn?

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in that, kyouko's reasoning for voting me and dragon's reasoning for voting kyouko overlaps slightly with the main difference being that dragon thinks kyouko was pushing lhf.

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i feel like objectively since i was her lowest tr, it makes sense she'd vote me.

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I understand the logic here, but I think that doesn't necessary reveal Kyouko's alignment.

that would be kinda why i don't think it serves as a reason to sr/tr kyouko.
as both town and scum would want to vote their lowest tr.

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hello friends!!

hi fire!!!

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ur slot was my lowest tr.
but ur catchup seems good to me.

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i think fire's posting moves them up a tier in my reads.
UNVOTE:

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reading up again.

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surprisingly dragon is the top wagon rn.

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catching up again.

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am busy today.
will post later.
sorry.

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i'm going to look thru fire's scumgames tonight.

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Yes, I think that's where I'm landing on both of you

I mean, removed from context I suppose I don't really scumread anyone
But considering the coalition I'm at Dunn/Appearance having at least one scum. I don't feel like I have a clear way that I feel good about sorting between them. I'll probably start by looking at Appearance again and seeing if they meet the towny threshold at this point. The whole hidden alt thing just complicates getting a genuine read there. Ydrasse and Dunn are both tough nuts to crack with any reasonable certainty, except when Dunn is town and trying really hard to show it.

I am 95% I know who Appearance is if that helps.

@Appearance are you fine with that info being revealed?

that would semi-defeat the purpose of a secret alt.

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i kinda like klick and fire rn so
VOTE: dunn

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reading up rn.
i've only just been able to access internet. sorry.

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given the flips, i feel like i need to reaccess my read on fire and maybe also dragon.
from memory gob was pushing them the most.
dunn felt like a compromise wagon so not sure what to deal with that tho it means that i'm definitely misreading at least one scum here as town.

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i feel like irrationality might be town-indicative in general but i need to doublecheck dragon's scumgame in case it's the opposite for him.

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going sightseeing today.
will post more this afternoon.

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gth dragon is prob still town.

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reading up now.
just had internet signal again.

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i'll read up later today.
i have just returned back to land.

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i think i might just iso fire for now and reread later.
so i can get some content out.

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might also iso dragon too.

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i think i would prefer fire over dragon tbh for today.

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mainly since i tr dragon more.

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happy bday, klick!

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i think ppl should vote

ok.
VOTE: fire

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they should be on e-1 now.
assuming i didn't accidentally hammer.

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why do you think im scum?

in all honesty, it's mostly poe based.

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In the world where you/dragon are t/t scum is probably on Dragon and I’m not scum so it’s probably not t/t

maybe my memory sucks but i thought you tred fire?
either way in a t/t world, wouldn't scum try to be on fire?
i mean dragon is not a very viable lim.

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i still think that if i'm right on dragon/klick, fire is the best lim.

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Could you elaborate on why

mostly that i've liked your content and klick feels towny.
i don't really see why scum would want to unvote fire when they're widely sred and very likely to get limmed.

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I will probably lean towards voting T3 but am not 100% certain

agreed.

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tbh i agree with klick in wanting t3's thoughts.
specifically, i want to know who he thinks last scum is.

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Actually no, thinking on it more, I think considering the context of this specific game I'd rather have discussion today because I think we can reach 3 town with a high degree of confidence.

Would still like T3's thoughts before any of that though

that's a good idea.

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VOTE: t3
e-1

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i guess dv/implo can hammer if either of them wants.

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i'm going to read both of your isos today.

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also going to check for klick's final reads.

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as in rereading them.

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i'm also going to reread implo's last coalition game.

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implo, how sold are you on me being scum?

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because you seem pretty confident yet you're not voting me.

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Meanwhile, a question for you, Appearance. Is there a reason why you have been cagey regarding your opinions during this day?

i don't really have any strong opinions rn so i've been holding off giving opinions until i can form something that actually contributes to the game.

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i will confess that i did end up not actually doing any rereading due to rl being more busy than intended.

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what should we do now?
this thread is eerily quiet and it's unnerving me.

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if he was around and town he would have posted to show he's not hammering. he just hasn't been around

that's true. sorry. rl has been busy.

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implo is making me worried that he is town.
but he's a good player so i'm conflicted honestly.

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tbh implo's self-meta does seem accurate based on my memory of how he played as scum in coalition.

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Appearance, there is also a wealth of game that has happened to draw from. I'm not completely sure how checked out you have been from things that have gone on while you were on vacation. There's plenty of time until deadline if you want to either eventually read our ISOs, or ask any questions, etc.

i have mostly caught up now with the pages that i missed on vacation.

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i'll make a decision eventually.

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Take your time. The longer it takes, the more hot takes we get to see from the dead thread.

true.
ngl rn there are things in both of your favour.
which is unhelpful for me as both of those things aren't hard to fake as scum tho you both are good scum players so you would take that risk.
i need to check if dv is a gambity player as scum tbh.

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i think i'll go with my gut here. sorry if wrong.
VOTE: dv

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gg
well played, implo!

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in hindsight, i should've connected dragon's kill to implo.

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i've decided to quote this in my sig.