Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

tonight instead of talking about all my reads I want to focus on one,

people are saying Hu Tao can be really lost and posting these, I want to counter argue that I'm sure he is faking/forging this behavior intentionally the clues here are significant actually:

This is how he claimed he is lost:

I'm lost this game. So I'm going to blend into the background. Is that okay?

he didnt specify he is lost on mech or reads. he didnt attempt to make a read at this point nor had any comments regarding mech. just posted "Im lost" and did neither.

The first read he dropped:

Dragon this may be my fastest town read on you yet

and it came out of nowehere. this either formed based on de's reaction to people criticizng his gimli read or de's mech talks in few posts back? yet how either could cause a fast tr on hu's side if he was truely "lost" and not just being him "forcing a distance" from game.

He keeps claiming he is lost again and again in different content yet doesnt do anything else substantial:

Wait so has the game not started yet? I'm lost

So are we supposed to pm votes or something? Is that what the mod is talking about?

So are we supposed to pm votes or something? Is that what the mod is talking about?

Yep

~B

What should I pm?

These are just super appealy while maintaining the distance from game and taking any responsibility for a vote by not even claiming what they voted even at the end:

I used my given right to vote

Then there is this self vote:

Sure we can eliminate me. I have 0 clue what's happening anyway sorry

VOTE: hu tao

absoloutly emotional reaction for an emotion that is ungranted? if you have 0 clue about stuff you cnat read one post that explains it? you cnat read the PMs mode sent about whats going on? What is confusing here even?

Then there is this play right after:

Err what's the VT of this game called?

this isnt being lost from game. This is acting as they are lost entirely from mafia games overall.

You can find the sample VT PM here. Typically, every game includes one somewhere at the start.

Thanks but that was annoying. Unfortunately I need to try this game or everyone will probably hate me

UNVOTE:

I will say this is not the type of game for me I don't like making long posts and I prefer to catch up in multiple posts so it'll be a pain.

THEN They switch gear,

VOTE: sunflower

Why this vote suddenly?

I'm sorry I just can't do long posts. I'm more of a react player than a thought player I think.

Umm. So I think catgirl or sunflower I would like to eliminate.

Dragon I think is town. I can understand why he is weary of me based on past games.

I think I wouldn't be this lost as scum since scum always has all the info. I guess you can say I could be faking not knowing stuff but that seems lame.

The bolded parts are alarming. he said he wants to try game but this doesnt seem even if they read a single post of these players, suggest and point finger without stating any question, anything that alarmed them? anything they want from these players while claiming they wanna read people based on reactions? It makes no sense

then second bolded part is putting an idea in people head to justify not voting them, This makes it obvious that it is intentional that he did all the other posts before to "claim" since scum knows stuff they couldnt dumbtell and make this "seemingly" paradox in people head to justify not voting him for no reason.

"I guess you can say I could be faking not knowing stuff but that seems lame"

Why lame? you're using it to act as you should be town read for it for no reason?

Okay. So actually I have a theory based on the mod post.

This might be dumb, but scum likely asked if just unvoting would count toward the post count, and scum likely knew before mod posted here that it would. So it got me to look at who did so.

Gimli based on last death note game I just checked never really used unvote before, he would just vote his next person without doing unvote. The only time he actually posted unvote was when he was about to win anyway at the very end of the game.

So yeah, it's probably silly but I think gimli could be scum. Based off that. Dragon do you think I'm looking into that too much? You don't have to reply to this directly, just reply on your next big post you make I suppose.

VOTE: Gimli

Then they do this post, now this is interesting, cause its reaching. Its guessing based on info we cant ever have about possible mod interactions with players and a dumb rule for a dumb mechanic put on game, that even if true and they asked mode about it in private, would not prove they were a scum doing it, they might have asked that after doing the unvote in game. yet we dont even know if such question was even asked in first place, or mod decided to clarify it as it happened in game and thought we should know about it.

Its soooo wierd to make such reach to put down a vote, that I say either hu is the scum who saw other scum or themself ask the question and decided to use that as a legit push or felt desprate and decided to go that way cause gimli is being doubted by few slotsand he thought it might stick or redirect attention?

I got a Red PM this game. Hopefully it works out!

THEN this. His first post in game.

I don't feel he is a town making a gamble to get reactions here. I think this entire play is a scum being cheeky. going for a too scummy to be scum appearence and trying to get few phases in that way.

I think he is best bet for flipping red today based on this pattern of posting.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Assuming auriel vote was correct, here is another unofficial vc:

ActionDan (4): Catgirl Chipotle, Sunflower, DragonEater70, Von Payne
Hu Tao (2): Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli
Gimli (1): Hu Tao
Prism (1): Klick
Sunflower (1): Silver Ravens
Ydrasse (1): Aureal

No Elimination (2): Prism, ActionDan

Not Voting (1): Ydrasse

All slots have 7 / 8 total posts to make today toward the 100 posts:

ActionDan - 0
Gimli - 4
Von Payne - 5
DragonEater70 - 5
Kyoko Kirigiri - 3 (with this post)
Klick - 1
Hu Tao - 8
Prism - 7
Aureal - 1
Catgirl Chipotle - 4
Silver Ravens - 2
Sunflower - 6
Ydrasse - 1

Total of 47 posts are done. please try and restrict yourself so everyone get an equal share from day 1... its super important for future day phases.

[Prism]

VOTE: Ravens

[Klick]

Looking back I think 408 is kinda towny for Gimli. Gimli's expressed read on me has bent back and forth, and it feels like bad optics to throw shade at me over that when he'd just switched back over to having a townread on me. It feels like a real nuanced progression and not like a stance he'd want to be pushing if he were scum.

Right this second I also think Dragon's grasp and understanding of the setup looks decently towny. But I'm going to be stubborn and not let him leave null until I'm very confident ):<

I'm just really unconvinced by Aureal's perspective so far? I read a post like 483 and think it feels very one-note and like it could very easily come from scum. There's a noticeable attempt at like... saying the right thing. Or expressing enough 'realness' without much impact. It feels fake.

581 finally has me convinced that Dragon is town fwiw. I particularly buy into the worldview presented in point 3 with who his true nulls are and how he feels about them. This just feels like how Dragon is actually viewing the game.

I don't have confidence on Hu Tao either way. I feel like her entire story arc up to this point could have come from town or scum. I'm kind of fine with Hu Tao dying for the info and I feel like that's where we're inevitably headed, but because that's where we're inevitably headed, I have doubts about this not being something scum are fine with (fireisredsir put this well in 592). On the other hand, the 'what's the VT called in this game' thing felt very explicitly like fishing (post-note: I kind of disagree with this in hindsight, with the context of 596 and 597! Has me more hesitant on the Hu Tao wagon overall). I just don't get what the point of what she's doing is overall if she's scum. Like, 'getting me to townread her by making this point' is interesting in theory, but in practice it just makes her a likely elimination target and she should know that.
...so in the process of writing that I think I've convinced myself more confidently that Hu Tao is decently likely to be town. I think I can relate with her perspective as someone who is also struggling with the complexity, and with this Dream in particular being ill-suited to my skillset. I want to give her a couple of days.

---

This section is devoted to responding to Gimli's 606

I don't see the townread on Prism at all, and in fact the things you're describing are just what I'd expect in a world where we're facing scum!Prism. What would you expect Prism's play to look like if they were scum? Less enthusiastic or eager? Prism strikes me as a player who rolls with the alignment they get in stride, regardless of what it is.

Other than Prism I agree with your townreads, but I also townread most of your scumreads. I think I'm in a place where I believe ActionDan and Hu Tao are both red herrings. I disagree on Von Payne but also feel like their slot will be more definitively solvable with time. I'm with you on Aureal scum and she is my preferred flip today. I am notably not townreading Catgirl despite the Slide thing, and my gut is disappointed that this is the case. I feel like Ali's positioning in this game is very squarely how Ali would want to be playing as scum atm.

---

I think Hu Tao's 615 feels very directionless in a way that fits with town. I do not get what Hu Tao is doing -at all- if she's scum in this game. It doesn't make sense in theory, and it's not doing any favors in practice (before me advocating for her being town in this post). I do not want to vote for Hu Tao today.

With the context of my Hu Tao read being town atm, I do pause a bit on Prism's 618, but I'm not prepared to draw conclusions there atm. (To clarify: my Prism vote earlier was mostly a combination of 'gut pings a bit' and 'I think showing interest in a Prism vote will do the most to strike more interesting conversation')

I like catgirl's #180

I don't, it feels exactly like the kind of post scum!Ali would want to make

---

And I'm caught up.

Here's where I'm at

TOWN

DragonEater70
Kyoko Kirigiri
Sunflower
Von Payne

LEANING TOWN

ActionDan
Hu Tao
Gimli

SLIGHTLY LESS LEANING TOWN

Silver Ravens
Ydrasse

NULL

LEANING SCUM

Catgirl Chipotle
Prism

SCUM

Aureal

Aureal doesn't feel right at all to me and I want to flip her. I would also do Prism or Chipotle, I feel like between the three there's at least two scum. I explicitly do not like the current competing wagons and would like to flip elsewhere.

[Klick]

VOTE: Aureal

[Silver Ravens]

i feel like the gimli meta vs not meta argument has reached the end of its usefulness

No it hasn't. I think that Gimli is being disingenuous in their posting, making them more likely to be mafia.

I wanna hear more about this. what part of their post feels disingenuous to you?

When they were arguing about meta it felt like they were saying whatever they needed to say but not holding a consistent thought process. Though I had missed a post they made when I made that post.

----

Okay. So actually I have a theory based on the mod post.

This might be dumb, but scum likely asked if just unvoting would count toward the post count, and scum likely knew before mod posted here that it would. So it got me to look at who did so.

Gimli based on last death note game I just checked never really used unvote before, he would just vote his next person without doing unvote. The only time he actually posted unvote was when he was about to win anyway at the very end of the game.

So yeah, it's probably silly but I think gimli could be scum. Based off that. Dragon do you think I'm looking into that too much? You don't have to reply to this directly, just reply on your next big post you make I suppose.

VOTE: Gimli

This kind of theory making makes me feel like Hu Tao is town, if only slightly.

----

My interpretation is wrong after further thought and review. Hu Tao thinks scum asked after the fact to find a strategy to burn posts, not that they asked during dream selection.

I am still inclined to townread the post. It's creative. I don't really buy it, but if I did, Silver Ravens is a better candidate on this front because Ravens "tested" a vote that clearly counted under the ruleset and immediately unvoted afterwards.

I'll stop posting for now, but I didn't want that error to sit.

My hydra partner misread the dream and thought it was 100 posts per player, they likely wouldn't have made that post otherwise. Neither of us knew that unvotes counted as content posts as that wasn't made clear at the time. The next post we make condenses a lot of thoughts into one post, showing that we are not trying to waste posts on purpose.

----

Game could just be Ydra + Aureal + Dan and wolf presence is non-existent. It would also explain a lot of things.

This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.

With that said, I will take a look at these slots.

Ydrasse I have in my mind that she as mafia likes to fit in socially, this results in her making posts that look "towny" on day 1, and she tends to not be suspected until the game progresses and there are less players to consider. In this game I am not really seeing that. 537 feels like a town post from her as it is combative, if only a little. The rest of their iso does not feel like Ydrasse as mafia according to the model I have in my mind.

Aureal made a post scrutinizing the setup in 296 and I believe this was at a time when there was quite a bit of confusion regarding the setup. If you are cynical you could say this is mechanical information vs looking at alignments. I think it leans towny to be figuring out the setup. They then follow it up with several posts where they appear to be trying to determine alignments. Also despite their post count they have posted quite a bit in each post. They have posted substantially more than Ydrasse and ActionDan, at the very least, so they shouldn't be grouped together as a lurker in my opinion (and again, that's not a great indicator of alignment, especially given how this day has gone done IMO.)

ActionDan I don't have any kind of meta read on. I've played with them before but I don't remember what they were like. In this game they have their one effort post in 200 where they go back and give commentary on the thread, they bring up some suspicion on Dragon, and then respond to questions about that for a bit. They say their read needs time to build. And then they haven't posted anything else, really. In this 100-posts phase They came in and unvoted, then voted for themself, and then unvoted again - over a span of six hours, but they have nothing to say apparently. Need more posts, I am not townreading here right now, but no strong reason to scumread either.

[Gimli]

klick, welcome to my locktowns.

I have re-read AD's only content post with attention now and agree he is probably a townie. There are a few good hints of it, once you get over his initial spiteful responses to everybody. first of all the ydrasse townread (also in #229), which I doubt is worded like that if he is scum. second of all the 'this seals prism towniness to me' comment, which I think is just a genuine townie-finds-another-townie moment where AD is excited about towny posting (after seeing so many scummy things he disliked by me, kiri and DE). His opinions on dreams are quite solid and I think they all come from a towny mindset, especially the part where he advises against global effect-looking dreams. we should've listened to AD! sheep people did look like global effects.

So I agree with you, klick. on AD. I really don't think its prism. Maybe it can be catgirl, maybe aureal, but I sure hope its hu tao regardless. and I think kyoko absolutely dunked on scum with her post there.

so we have a catgirl/aureal/hu tao/Von Payne POE, except you are townreading Von Payne. I want you to walk me through it or change your mind, otherwise black will endgame you all.

I think its hu tao and von payne and one of catgirl or aureal after considering your leans and reviewing what I feel should be reviewed. I don't think I can decide on catgirl or aureal being scum or town in this gameday.

this is all townies:
me
klick
kyoko
DE
sunflower
AD
ravens
prism
and if we're lucky, ydra.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

With all this talk about Hu Tao I don't really care if people move votes there as long as it's between Aureal, Dan, and Hu but Dan and Hu seem like the right move.

lol @ Klicks post for a lot of reasons but I don't think me or my hydra partner want to address it this phase.

This is lazy thinking to go after the least active players only. Usually there are mafia in the players who are posting and going after only lurkers is the wrong move.

What you're doing is lazy thinking. Just because they're not as active doesn't mean they can't all have red role pms : ) Especially when none of the reasons they're being scumread is due to activity.

[Gimli]

VOTE: aureal

[Sunflower]

VOTE: Gimli

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: aureal

[Gimli]

ofc I'm wasting another post to talk to klick

so, what if you're right about hu tao? I agree that what she is doing here could be a townie. that would leave my scumteam at, I guess you'd say (prism, catgirl, aureal) and I'd say (von payne, catgirl, aureal). that got me thinking of a weird thing I think maria said at the beginning of this moonphase:

Also if ur name is "DragonEater70" "JupiterXV" "Black" or "Aureal" please limit your posting to 0-3 posts a day. 100 posts is manageable but every post matters. A response is not required nor recommended. Thank you for your cooperation.

As other people mentioned, aureal has not posted much at all. but what if she did, just not here? what if she did it in their scumhood, and catgirl did a classic slip of sharing a hood with aureal? it's not that farfetched.

so right in this page catgirl is taking their POE of (hu tao, AD, aureal) but picking the first two over aureal. that immediately made me vote for aureal, because I think now they have enough s^s between them for me to think its either not hu tao or not von payne.

I will take a look at prism with more attention but I want you to also look at von payne. I think both heads are scummy now that I also read the whole lot of nothing drew did this game.

sorry for overposting I promise to stop (please shoot me if I don't)

[Klick]

VOTE: Catgirl Chipotle

[Klick]

VOTE: Aureal

[Von Payne]

Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.

All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.

I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.

I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol

And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago

So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company

-Drew

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Hu

[Catgirl Chipotle]

VOTE: hu tao

[Ydrasse]

using up one of my government mandated posts

i'm leery of voting hu tao because of 615 despite my better judgment lol. i think hu's iso is pretty bland in a way that feels more concerned with like not... giving out info than it is doing anything. but i am sympathetic to all of these long posts not being fun. because i agree and i have read only chunks here and there.

i think 615 matches that sort of pattern well but also it seems a little goofy to me to post that as a wolf thinking it'll do anything unless hu has given up entirely and has no hopes whatsoever of trying and doesn't wanna reveal anything. i guess it's maybe more likely if the format is detrimental to how she likes to play. maybe i am being too nice but i dont feel it in my heart

[Sunflower]

I actually think ActionDan's assessment of the Slide reveal being pro-town in 200 is a towny thought process. It feels like a thought that sprang up out of genuine curiosity as to whether town or scum caused the Slide reveal. The momentum of the ActionDan wagon today has made me think that's the bait wagon, I don't want to see AD flip today.

i know we're not supposed to post much more but i really do not like this reasoning and i really do not like the way gimli jumped on top of it or the entirety of 656.

it took me a bit to even find what you were talking about here because it's such a small thing. it's literally just this:

I think rule 8 kills off the useless Slide dream. I think whatever or whoever caused the reveal to be pro-town.

calling the reveal pro-town is like. one of the most obvious and uncreative thoughts someone could have?? im not sure what there even is to consider or be curious about. revealing information to the town is pro-town by, like, definition. i don't see how klick is reading alignment out of this.

im not really sure if that makes me suspect klick but i think the way gimli piggybacked off that reasoning and ran with it is really scummy. i think, again, that most of his posting has been centered around building allies and establishing his own position. i don't think there's any way town!gimli genuinely believes the poe is that narrow here.

the aureal push in general gives me bad vibes and i don't want to go there

~~

a couple other things since we're at 7 so this is one of our last posts:

- we are okay with voting hu tao if we really need to get a wagon going but id kind of rather not
- i think the wagon on actiondan was super pure (i think it was us/catgirls/dragon/von payne?) and i think we should bring it back
- i don't really like the undermining of catgirls that seems to be happening lately. i still think they're solidly town. feels scum-motivated
- interested in hearing from prism more and what exactly was such an awful take
- i liked GiF's posting early on but haven't been really very sold on Dunn especially lately. that read is dropping a bit for me. would probably vote there

[Aureal]

It's always wonderful being scumread because you literally don't have the ability to participate at any given moment and take some time to do things when you have the chance. Like, I don't expect to get townread for taking the time and parsing how the setup rules were messed up and getting the mods to fix it, but I feel like I'm getting scumread for it, and that feels like shit. Proofreading unclear text is in my nature. Oh, and I guess because I made the same snarky joke that I usually make when someone asks me to say something. Sigh. I am full of the snark, you've just gotta learn to live with it, I'm afraid.

Also I thought it was obvious why I voted Ydrasse so I don't know why Dragon is confused?? My patience with him is very low, seeing how Dragon announced a list of people he wanted to wagon to get reads on and Ydrasse was one and he now cannot comprehend wanting to wagon her to get a read. Obviously it doesn't do anything for me to vote her alone but I can't exactly make anyone else join, can I?? I might've gone for Dan there but I expected him to post more of his own volition, as this post restriction doesn't seem like it should even really matter to him given his long catch-up posting style.

My read on Klick is taking a dip, it's a little hard to believe he has such a bad read, and definitely hypocritical seeing as he claims to be constricted in his play by the post restriction but makes no allowance for it affecting others like me. I thought he might have been looking for reactions when he was 'voting' me earlier; and I probably didn't help my case by getting tilted by Dragon acting obnoxiously similar to a previous game which I have been reminded of too much recently in trying to maintain my blacklist, and have

very recently

remarked upon to Dragon about how I still don't like having to think about it. But Klick coming after me again now feels opportunistic seeing as I basically have no defenders.

I challenge you to compare my readlist to the last time I did a serious readlist where I try to give all my thoughts on everyone. Yeah, I don't know when that is either, might even be never. Actually it probably is never because I never would've had the post restriction pressure of knowing I need to get

everything

included and be as informative as possible. There's a reason I hardly ever do readlists! Well, a reason beyond PTSD from the first time I tried and it was such a resounding success that I got voted out halfway through day 1 so fast I couldn't even claim.

That probably illustrates the other point, which is that I suck at readlists. It's not how I think about the game, it's not how I interact with the game, especially right at the start. I pounce on things that seem odd in interactions, then hoard my reads and scatter them as they seem relevant, slowly analyzing it all. (Keyword: slowly!) This game's setup is massively screwing with that; I went from Figuring Out the Screwy Setup mode, to Tilted mode; to Haha You're Not Allowed to Post mode. And so I did what I could, I consolidated my thoughts even though it goes against everything normal in how I play. I hated it. I don't do reads like "ooooh that person used the word 'probably' too much so they're scum" so I don't typically have much to work with early game. I'm a late-game solver, not a "point at person right away and announce their alignment" solver. On day one I'm primarily trying to generate content that will hopefully be useful in solving later, not expecting to nail it with my often-mushy reads.

Gimli is locktown now BTW, thinking that the Catgirls nonsensically telling me not to post is a PT slip. Well unless he's scum together with them and that's a ploy they're working together to get me, and then he can back off his scumread of them because I flipped town so the case was invalid but... nah. Just wish he wasn't scumreading me, it's depressing being scumread by your townread.

If Klick is scum here, it means most likely one of Hu Tao or Dan is and he's trying to push things away from both as cover. I doubt

both

Hu and Dan are scum together and they both just decided to play openly antitown here. Some chance that neither is scum though and Klick's just taking the chance to push what looks like a pretty viable wagon while I'm in my vulnerable day one form, expecting that after my miselimination tomorrow people will be ready to go back to them because they've been so antitown. Now that Gimli has townslipped with his theory, it makes me think Catgirl could be partnered with Klick, who seems to have easily latched onto it, trying to flip me first of course so the theory gets disproven. Catgirls did sort of come out of nowhere to amp up the pressure on me just now after all, it could easily be coordinated.

And I'd say Kyoko is not partnered with Klick if Hu Tao is scum with him. That's the other thing going on here that this seems like a reaction to- Kyoko's case on Hu. It's only

after

that where Klick started actively defending Hu. He's notably avoided voting either her or Dan. That makes me think Hu is the likelier scum of the two. Prism would also not be partnered with Klick/Hu, as the other counterwagon Klick's been trying to push.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[ActionDan]

I wish to preface this post by saying I attempted to first and foremost to reread Gimli and DE. Considering I've only got about a couple hours a night to spend on this game and I work slow.. very slow. It was perhaps not the best thing to do especially when I feel even after my opinions are now somewhat invalidated. As for recent events I think Kirigiri is blatantly town now and Klick is too. Klick is for a mind meld over his opinions on DE when he had them before he succumbed to town reading them completely. I'm still holding out because I truly despise his play and a good number of his posts moonphase. Gimli has become much more town to me over a willingness to analyze and re-analyze players in ways I find believable. I still have an incomplete picture of the game due to time constraints. The voting myself and unvoting was just to tell people I was still here without wasting a content post nothing else. Kiri's case on Hu is not definitive because I don't think a case on Hu could ever be, but I think it's a good one and if Hu is scum the reason why is there. I will say it many times below but I need to read both CC and Aureal again and deeply; there are townreads I need a refresher on but these two take priority. In the meantime below the Gimli spoiler is a case on Sunflower who I think is a good hit for scum. I am not absolutely convinced of my own case but I would like people to read it, especially those that have Sunflower as a townread.

Spoiler: Gimli

When Isoing Von Payne / Gimli together I get a very clear picture of Black being town. Aside from 136 which is kind of a crappy post she responds well to the often harsh and overly critically amplified points that Gimli tosses her way. These being the speculations about her entrance which was not engaged in the act of immediately scum hunting, responding to the suggestion that Black implied Gilmi / DE was or could be a S/S pairing, and the entirety of the discussions surrounding whether Gimli did or did not invoke meta when reading/voting Black (Answer: a rose by any other name... : it's meta). I could delve into the particulars of these arguments between the two of them if needed but the reader will find Black coming out ahead here. This does not surpass possible growing pains endemic to poking and prodding for a read on Gimli's part and the first part of 160 would suggest the same even if clearly this issue reignited after. Much more importantly for the both of them are the arguments in relation to DE.

I can see why I'm ticking so hard as town to DE as I'm doing something very different this game

This is horrific. Black points out much the same in posts 165 and 186. At the time of the read by Gimli's own admission in 174 there is no reason to support it, especially if as Gimli claims that DE has had extensive experience with him so doing something differently from one game to the next shouldn't be surprising and if Gimli has no set meta then there isn't anything DE should be able to believe is behaviorally pertinent in establishing an oracle like read. (There never should be anyway, Meta is Trash). Similarly, Gimli's own town read of DE came immediately afterwards and my doubt is high that #174 would be the reason at that time for Gimli.

Is DE bleeding town? No he is not.

340 is a nothing readlist. 344: First again a rather harsh view towards SRs posting. It's entirely natural to see a logical contradiction and if unresolved assume a less than towny motive for it. Especially when Gimli was the one pressing Black on her meta comment in the first place and couldn't let it go. So it could be connected to the intricate process of forming or faking reads. 2nd half of this post is basically gaslighting. Soul reads founded on nothing are scummy. And it isn't according to DE founded on nothing, It's Meta somehow, but really, its nothing and that's the point of calling attention to it.

351: From Gimli's perspective the Klick read makes sense. Will read Aureal at some point.

379: Noting that Black never answered this akaik, but this is WIFOM. I believe we have been told that DE can be this confident as scum too. As for scum strategy, what if all the scum blatantly and absurdly townread each other over nothing? Never could happen right? that kind of thing could easily fuck with people's minds. I've experienced it (we as scum did did lose though). The point is that we cannot know it and speculation is WIFOMy. Also you had just said Klick is town because DE is hard to elim now so... the strategy seems to be working if that was it!

some posts about but mechanics; sure. It is understandable to be worried about a shit result if slide actually made it to the top 3 (despite what we actually got), and people's reasons for it were bonkers, but its possible they didn't understand rule 8 well at the time. On that note will say that post tally the fact that Car got 5 and sheep 8 might be an indication of scum influence. Will have to count votes.

579: Agree with SR read, and the reasons why. Had the same feeling wrt their early game mech talk and after reviewing the other two posts they can thinly be called town observations. On me my content is diametrically opposed to your own reads wondering how much that factored in instead of being overly critical. Entering some kind of null-scum into lets flip em read is jarring to me.

Aureal and Ali/MariaR I have to read more carefully. Agree with Hu Tao read.

Going over Gimli's and DE's isos and body of work is exhausting. Attempting to wrestle with their posts has been as close to a fool's errand if there ever was one. While doing this a couple of Sunflower posts pinged me. Those are 175 and 313.

I find Sunflower's 175 read fake. There is no reason to stick with a town read if there is both a good scum and town explanation for DE's behavior. In the single game I have played with him I have also seen DE be a more thoughtful and analytical player so "it feels his brain works this way" strikes me as handwavy to couch a subpar unjustified read. Relatedly 313 makes me question if they forgot their read. They did not land south of null as the combo of 163 and 175 together demonstrate. There does seem to be a point from posts 138 to 142 where it could be claimed they made a sorting attempt and only then landed on a town read but that is explicitly not what was said/claimed. Slips like this, forgetting timelines of reads, might look trivial but I take it as a strong indication that the reads were made up in the first place. Town has much more control of knowing what they thought when they thought it.

If I look at sunflower's posting holistically over the moonrise phase, They have a load of posts (Jupiter being the more guilty party here) that clearly intentionally distance themselves from the game but only sprinkle in the occasional read. One on DE, one on Ydrasse, and one on Aureal, all light townreads all potentially reversible (maybe not DE's). Now this is clearly intended as Sunflower wasted no time in delivering a wall suggesting a pool of reads were building up faked or not. I question this strategy would come from a town mindset though while at the same time injecting in the main thread a post count only 2nd and pretty much equal to DE. It's not natural and there's a more clear scum benefit and less clear town one if any. Even Black who started with just setup spec got into gear and engaged w.e one's opinion on it.

I cannot completely judge the content of posts 592 and 624 as I haven't read into Catgirls and Aureal but from inadvertently skimming both here and there nothing from them had caught my eye as townposting. Both are the next two people I look into. Other reads don't necessarily look like the absolute worst takes as Prism has suggested but Jupiter saying Prism has "rancid vibes" really doesn't track well especially considering the conversation they had from 571 to 575 where Prism was treated cordially. And as for the case against me I am acutely aware I am a soft target. The case boils down to extrapolating meta and inactivity and not the particulars of my content. Others like Kirigiri have criticized me in a much more believable way.

VOTE: Sunflower

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: cat girl Chipotle

[Hu Tao]

Screw it I'm posting. This game is too restrictive. And I don't want to read essays. I'm sorry. Gimli/von/catgirl/sunflower/aureal are all on my sus list

[Klick]

I'll respond to Gimli and a couple other bits in my next post later today.

Catgirl's response is to laugh my posting off, and Aureal's is to try to discredit while insinuating I'm scum for... reading her incorrectly?

I think Aureal's main focus is on providing reasons not to eliminate her (she hasn't hit her 'power spike' - neither have I! It doesn't mean anything about my alignment) and to look elsewhere ('here's all these theories about what might be happening - please pick one of them').

ActionDan's bit about me is consistent with the way he thinks and is towny.