Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Von Payne]

I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.

im not scum i just wanna talk to you

I don't wanna talk to you. I want your head

Also, why are you so hardcore think they are scum?

[Von Payne]

I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.

im not scum i just wanna talk to you

I don't wanna talk to you. I want your head

Hey hey, we are all friends here at The Von Payne show

Save the murder for the day time lol

you're my doublevoter

Lol, not for Sunflower

[Von Payne]

I don't have to exert energy or try super hard to win this game.
My reads are rock solid.
You can kill me but you won't because you and Kyoko need me as an elimination.

im not scum i just wanna talk to you

I don't wanna talk to you. I want your head

Hey hey, we are all friends here at The Von Payne show

Save the murder for the day time lol

you're my doublevoter

Lol, not for Sunflower

For Kyoko

We will see about that

[Von Payne]

I want to remind you that Frozen Angel, aka, Kyoko, only tryhards and pulls out all of the stops when her team, or herself, is in danger.
What do you think that Hu Tao case was?
If she didn't do something, well you have a cw on Sunflower, you have people willing to go to Aureal whenever they want. There could have realistically been a wolf elimination during that day.

Hol up.....

Kyoko is Frozen Angel?

But if you are correct here about Kyo's case on Hu, that is compelling

[Von Payne]

kyoko is frozen angel yes

second half of page 26 into page 27 is recommended reading

I can see Kyo tryharding to make sure Hu is the lim, from what I can see in that little stretch(pages 25 to 27, 28) she made two wall posts(which I do understand since we had the post restriction), but it was to just make Hu look bad(and yes that is an oversimplified description of her posting, but we also have the benefit of hindsight).

Especially since Hu mentioned she is not one to make big wall posts......how do you fight back against this when the heat is already on you?

I am buying Ali's case on Kyo here, though I will say I was mainky skimming to see if what Ali wa saying was plausible

[Von Payne]

Inaction is action and can accomplish wolf goals.
The best wolves will only respond to situations when the ball is in their court.

Speculate on their role openly please. If they're shot within these last 2 hours, that is good for village.

i think most people probably have the same idea but i also don't really see how that would be helpful in any way to do here

Allow me to be Drew here for a moment

But do you think there is anything to them adamantly not wanting to be a part of this hood?

[Von Payne]

Top of my head I don't remember if she gave reasoning per se, but I didn't disagree with it(

we haven't talked a whole bunch of strategy

, but I will check the chat to see if she talked about this vote brb)

wasn't gonna comment on it but since night is almost over i will say this phrasing choice has been kinda bugging me and i will feel silly later if i don't at least say something

strategy is just an odd way of putting it

Why though?

You don't talk with Jupiter how you are going about things, how you will navigate around certain slots......or maybe who to invite to your overnight talk show?(which also has been a last minute choice haha). That is what I would call talking strategy.

How am I supposed to describe interactions with Black?



Fire, was about to post this before the day started

[Von Payne]

@drew, i think there are things that you could call strategy but since that was specifically about a relatively emotion/read driven point where black was just emphasizing that she really wanted hu tao limmed, i don't feel like the label applies in that context

i think it's not really a big point for me, it just was stuck on my brain

I was speaking in generalities, we haven't talked that much strategy outside of who we want in our hood........and maybe bouncing a few reads off each other

And if anything Black has been more passive and let me steer the ship in regards to both, which she has even hinted at

[Von Payne]

I'm literally not voting any other players this day that aren't kyoko btw. I'm keeping my vote on her until she dies. If its me vs them in Final whatever, I'm voting her immediately

So why aren't you voting them now?

[Von Payne]

it's moonrise

Touche lol

[Von Payne]

They sepcifically chose a slot they were hard core keeping at null all game and refused to talk about few times asked over an almost universal townread who asked for it yes

and they were hinting they want aureal in night 1 before we knew the guilty on aureal, probably to set it up easier

Did you even read the hood where I explained why I pivoted off of Prism because they said they wouldn't be around at night?

And I am keeping my specific read on catgirl close to the chest for a reason, but it isn't because I think they are scum.

And sorry I couldn't force them to post more on night to grill them more, they essentially weren't active until Ali went off at the end of the night, and I did start to question them on things since j disagreed with them pushing on sunflower, and I wanted them to further their read on you when they brought it up

And if you couldn't tell, and again I mentioned it at night, Black and I haven't really talked about what we are separately going to do, we just kinda have been doing our own thing, you kinda are treating us as one brain here.....even when signed by different heads.

[Von Payne]

also you said you and black both wanted prism in initially as you both townread them, then why black posted about reevaluating prism in light of aureal flip and where did that go?

I'm getting vague townie vibes from Prism but nothing substantial. He's closer to null for me so of course I want to reevaluate him

We thought he could be useful until he said he wasn't going to be around much

This is getting super confusing to follow. Just tell me here why did you neighborize cat, what was the goal, whats your individuals read on the slot and how you developed it

We have certain theories about our role that we don't want to discuss but there are reasons for our choices that you don't need to know about. I have mixed feelings about Catgirl personally but thought they would be a decent choice

[Von Payne]

Should I believe you dont know prism is killed last night?

Just ignore it please. Either I'm scum trying to towntell or I'm town that legit didn't realize

My question was what happened to reeval you wanted to do on them during night?

I thought we already said that we didn't choose Prism because he wasn't going to be around

you still avoided dropping a read on catgirl.

I'm not avoiding it. I don't have a good read there. I lean slightly town based on gut but it's closer to null

[Von Payne]

Drew and I both agree kyouko is probably scum here trying to purposely make this seem more complicated than it actually is in order to shade it

It doesn't feel like she's trying to sort us with this line of questioning. It feels more like she's trying to catch us in some gotcha that doesn't exist. We have valid reasons for everything we've done

[Von Payne]

tbh I like these last few posts though. The entire build up that I questioned about is still same, but what you answered about it and how you reacted to me questioning it feels somewhat consistent with that,

so I'm getting very so slightly a cold feet.

Night ended and it is still The Von Payne Show lol, now featuring the summer formally known as Frozen Angel

Kyo, maybe you are just confused since Black and I are somewhat doing things on our own here, and then maybe talking about it. So some of our individual reads may seem a bit 'not exactly on the same page'.

Though, I feel like we both are towny on Chipotle, with me probably more so than Black....and honestly was probably the case with Prism as well.

Black also did hint at it as was, to be as mysterious as Black was lol, there also is potentially a reason we(and especially me) town read Chipotle, and it does relate to why we hooded them(outside of knowing it would annoy Maria haha).

You have an issue we didn't grill them enough, that is kinda fair since I would have liked more interaction with them, but like I said before I can't force them to participate in The Von Payne Show. But I did try to interact with them more and the end of the night when they were having the back and forth with Sunflower, which I think was good for the game state.

[Von Payne]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

How about you throw your read away and you sheep me

I love how direct and to the point you are Ali lol

But Dan, what do you think about how Ali said Kyo gets like that when Kyo is scum?

[Von Payne]

Unless you think you're just a better player than me?

Woah, did you steal some of my whiskey last night? You are ready to fight

[Von Payne]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

How about you throw your read away and you sheep me

I love how direct and to the point you are Ali lol

But Dan, what do you think about how Ali said Kyo gets like that when Kyo is scum?

My memory of FA is a bit foggy but if I recall they were frequently a fade as town and scum and I am surprised they are Kiri because Kiri's play here regardless of alignment is rather sophisticated. So I suppose I am curious to learn more, and see what Ali is talking about with pulling all the stops etc in support of their scummates or even what it means to not lose wolf games in context

This does read as fence sitty

[Von Payne]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

[Von Payne]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

I have to be like this

I don't think your solve is fully correct

Sunflower is town

But my finger is definitely on the trigger and pressed against Kyo's head though

[Von Payne]

I have been thinking and rereading and i still dont get what was vons reason for taking catgirl in public neighborhood. They hint on having a secret reason and for it not being related to solve the slot with conversations and questions which i dont get.

Otherwise what is the point of neighborizing a null town lean read that you repeatedly call them possibly pocketing you.

It makes more sense if its all bs and they are just both scum not wanting to enable night chat for any town.

You keep repeating this. It's such a weak reason to think we are scum together and I don't think town pushes this point as hard as you are pushing it

If you were paying attention to my reads (which you should be doing if you think I'm scum) then you'd realize we didn't have a lot of options for recruiting as far as townreads go

And fine, I'll go ahead and reveal one of our hidden reasons. I don't think it'll really impact much

We think we can potentially prevent Bad Dreams from performing Night actions by forcing them to stay awake. Prism and Catgirls both expressed that they didn't want to be recruited. I had a tinfoil that maybe one of them could be scum trying to make sure they can utilize their ability by not being recruited

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Kirigiri

[Von Payne]

I need Von to explain because do you

think

you have some of hidden action? If so, why?

Or are you just saying you

do

have that power?

How long have you been thinking this? Since game start? N1? etc.

Because if either of these were the case why would you do it on two slots you've openly said you TR? Why would you block there? I'm confused.

They just explained that as the hidden reason why they chose you in night 2.

Von Payne, what makes you think your role would prevent the bad dreamers from acting at night? Surely your role tells you what it does, is there some confusion?

Nothing in our role PM said we have this ability, it has just been a working theory that Black am I have shared my based of the flavor and theme of the game(and popped into my head after randomly thinking about nightmare on elm street lol).

Bad dreams can't get you if you are awake at night

We don't know how kooky of a theory it is, but that is where our headspace is at

Inb4 'still should have hooded Prism them'....which is fair, but wanted someone active(and I have thought we are more protective while Black is more we prevent bad dreams night actions)

[Von Payne]

Thank you for being our first guests and for taking your shoes off before you came in

I kinda want to recruit Aureal tomorrow. Not only is she probably town but I think she'll keep the vibes mellow ya know

~B

Oh crap what if I killed Aureal by saying this

Quick somebody scumread Aureal

This is the post btw. The ones they nade night 1. It screamed like a fake concern to me. Knowing the guilty later and now that we saw aureal flip, it stood out to me as a fake attempt to set aureal up as potntial future night recuit.

Now it has another layer, cause aureal was their second highest tr and tgey say they theorized it role blocks people

I was first to think we might be a protective role, I also can usually figure out Aureal when she is town, and I thought the town slipped on D1 and convinced Black that I was right about Aureal. It was after this that Black started to theorize that maybe we are a more JK role.

Part of the reason we chose Catgirl was that we think they knew about our potential ability(when I am home on my laptop I can find the posts they made that made me think this), so I started to town read them since it felt like they were reaching out to us, and why would scum keep us alive knowing this.

Black wasn't so convinced and thought they had scum equity, so in lieu of not choosing Prism, catgirl seemed like a good middle ground and 'cover all your basis's sort of choice for our hood.

Also, how would we ask the mod about something that Black and I are only theorizing?

'Hey Mod, can you confirm that this theory we have about our role that you made no mention of in our role PM?'

Do you really think they would answer??

[Von Payne]

I'm not in opposition to it but I still don't understand why I am the top candidate for the neighborhood. That is something I envision Alisae and Maria wanting for themselves, not for me.

I think you are a prime night kill target

This was the post that made us think Catgirl had the same idea about our role as we did

[Von Payne]

Kirigiri is going berserk over this and I'm not believing it at all

[Von Payne]

and I don't believe your possible jail keep/roleblock theory. how could you have this "suspicion" about how your role supposedly works and not ask mod about it?

We were thinking it was a side-effect of our role that we weren't supposed to know about. Asking the mod wouldn't do us any good

also that role makes absolutely no sense design wise as town. that is a mass jailkeep in addition to night enabling. what the fuck

I'm notoriously awful when it comes to balance so it never occurred to me that it might not make sense

also why the fuck you went for sunflower your highest town read night 1 if that was the case?

We started off by thinking we had a protective role. I was the one that had the roleblocking theory and it was a pretty recent development

NOTHING makes sense with your claim and play

It makes complete sense, but yet again you are making things up and twisting our words in order to make us look bad. You're not trying to sort us

[Von Payne]

BOTH heads specifically said they were null town leaning catgirl. Thats not a slot you get for potential blocking. That is not the way you treat a null read after public neighboring them

We targeted Catgirl for a few reasons. The roleblocking thing was barely one of them. I don't even think Drew was really on board with that idea, it was mainly something I was theorizing and an extra incentive to target Catgirl

That is not what you do to your highest town read on night 1 either

We didn't even think about the roleblocking aspect N1

This makes no sense action-wise. this makes no sense design-wise, this makes no sense cause he claims its ambiguous and they are not certain if it does it. You can't start the game unless confirming you know your role. this is not a bastard game

If it's impossible that there is an aspect to our role that we don't know about then that's our bad. Like I said I'm not great with balance, I'm not sure if Drew is or not but we both legit thought this could be possible

[Von Payne]

I need Von to explain because do you

think

you have some of hidden action? If so, why?

Or are you just saying you

do

have that power?

How long have you been thinking this? Since game start? N1? etc.

Because if either of these were the case why would you do it on two slots you've openly said you TR? Why would you block there? I'm confused.

We thought recruiting people would have a side-effect of protecting them. We were essentially keeping people awake which made us think they couldn't be harmed by Bad Dreams. How can someone have a Bad Dream if they don't go to sleep?

Drew came up with this theory on 3/14. Our initial plan was to just recruit the towniest people and hope that scum would try to kill one which would hopefully prove or disprove our theory

Again, the block theory was presented by me a few days ago so we didn't have that in mind earlier in the game

[Von Payne]

Von Payne, what makes you think your role would prevent the bad dreamers from acting at night? Surely your role tells you what it does, is there some confusion?

We thought this was a complex game and that it was possible we weren't told everything about our role

[Von Payne]

How can you suspect sonething being part of your role and not asking mod about it at all?

You said you were theorizing blocking not protecting litteraly last page. So what was it you were theorizing?

What were all reasons for choosing catgirl?

We didn't think to ask the mod. I can't speak for Drew but I was under the impression that this type of thing was possible in games like this. I didn't even think the mod would be able to tell us if that was part of our role

At first we were theorizing being a protective role. Then I had the thought that maybe if we kept a Bad Dream awake they wouldn't be able to do their bad dreamy stuff

We chose Catgirl because our first choice was going to be busy and we both felt somewhat good about Catgirl. Drew also found it funny that Maria didn't want to be recruited so that was part of it. I have shown some reluctance to townread Catgirl in our hydra PT because I think it's possible Ali could be trying to pocket me and I don't want to fall for it. My roleblocking thought made me feel better about recruiting them

[Von Payne]

So which was your theory when you chose the people you did?

We've had the protective theory all along so we've made all of our decisions based on the idea that that could be part of our role. The roleblocking theory was something I came up with less than a week ago when we were discussing Prism/Catgirl/ydra all saying they don't want to be recruited

[Von Payne]

Von Payne, what makes you think your role would prevent the bad dreamers from acting at night? Surely your role tells you what it does, is there some confusion?

We thought this was a complex game and that it was possible we weren't told everything about our role

Allow me to give BOTD for a moment here and assume this is a real. Where did you get this theory? Nothing in the game indicated it so I'm curious.

Can you tell me how long you had this thought? Early on? D1? D2? etc.

Drew came up with the theory during the first week of the game. He prefaced it with "this might be a Drew type thought" but honestly the theory made a lot of sense to me. Like I said, if it's mechanically impossible then that's just an oopsie on our part

[Von Payne]

I cant belive this story. Im sorry if by 0.01% chance im wrong.

Im not changing my vote

Ok scum

[Von Payne]

There was nothing stated about the game being bastard I recall and having hidden powers is pretty up there on the bastard part.

It's not really the theory in itself I take issue with though, sure I can believe it. What I'm having trouble is even if everything you're saying is true your actions don't make sense to me considering you targetted two people you were townreading (or at the very least not scumreading) and the reasoning I saw was us saying "don't target me."

That's just odd in and of itself.

Where did you get that reasoning from?

[Von Payne]

Hang on now I'm seeing two different theories one about protecting and one about role blocking what one are we basing this on now? zz

I mean just read my posts. I laid it out pretty clearly

[Von Payne]

There was nothing stated about the game being bastard I recall and having hidden powers is pretty up there on the bastard part.

It's not really the theory in itself I take issue with though, sure I can believe it. What I'm having trouble is even if everything you're saying is true your actions don't make sense to me considering you targetted two people you were townreading (or at the very least not scumreading) and the reasoning I saw was us saying "don't target me."

That's just odd in and of itself.

Where did you get that reasoning from?

You're the one who said it.

What are you talking about?

[Von Payne]

What I'm having trouble is even if everything you're saying is true your actions don't make sense to me considering you targetted two people you were townreading (or at the very least not scumreading) and the reasoning I saw was us saying "don't target me."

Like how could you possibly ignore the other reasons we recruited you/Sunflower and reach the conclusion that we wanted to roleblock ya'll? Are you even reading what we are saying?

[Von Payne]

You're basically saying you thought you were a hidden jailkeeper and are confused on why I find your target choice strange.

Yeah you should probably do more than just skim our posts. I explained this already

[Von Payne]

In case I didn't make myself clear enough, Drew and I both thought the protective side-effect to our role was a possibility. We were never convinced about it but we did decide to just recruit people we thought were townie. Due to many reasons, neither of us had strong townreads going into N2, so we had to choose someone we just leaned town on. This was when the roleblocking theory surfaced. Again, neither of us were convinced this could be the case with our role, but for me personally it added an extra incentive to target Catgirls because I was still mostly unsure about them. If they are town maybe we protect them, if they are scum maybe we block them. It felt good to me

If you don't believe this, I'm sorry. I don't know how to explain our thought processes any better but I'll try if you have any questions

[Von Payne]

I can't tell if Von truly not understanding how out of touch their choices are here is towny or wolfy.

Can you explain how our choices are out of touch

[Von Payne]

i still feel that von panyes role is more elegant as a wolf one and i think the current conversation isn’t really doing a lot to dissuade that

i need to reread the flipped wolf role but it kind of feels like the power level in this game is wonky if it’s town idk

If we were scum why wouldn't we just flat out say our role has an extra protective and/or role blocking ability?

How would it benefit us, as scum, to talk about our theory of our role in the manner we have done?



Pre Edit: Ydra, it began simply when I was thinking about our role and the Bad Dreams.....nothing really to do with anything that happened in game.....but when Chipotle posted like they were thinking like I was thinking, made me feel that it was a real possibility

Pre Edit2: Kyo, I am going to call you Maria for the rest of the game lol(real Maria knows why)

[Von Payne]

why would a mod not tell you your role in an explicitly non bastard game

I thought there could be unrevealed mechanics. The game seemed complex due to the setup so I didn't think it would be that crazy if we secretly protected the people we kept awake

I suck at balance and setup. This is a widely known fact

[Von Payne]

like idk this seems like a very weird place to end up as two people in a game where the boundaries of what is allowed is set and if you are town it makes it very hard imo to move past this for how rough it’s went down in thread

We clearly don't know the boundaries

[Von Payne]

I think the way I revealed our theories is what is seeming confusing. Looking back on it now I mentioned the roleblocking theory first but that was a recent development made by me. The protective theory was the prevalent one

[Von Payne]

I can't tell if Von truly not understanding how out of touch their choices are here is towny or wolfy.

Can you explain how our choices are out of touch

With the theory you've presented and stated in the thread, your choices of 2 people you mostly townread or at least null make no sense at all. Even if we choose to believe everything else in what you've said. Like, you keep telling me to "read" but I am reading, multiple times.

How does it make no sense to recruit people we townread if we think we might be able to protect them?

[Von Payne]

I was prepared to let this go if the overwhelming motive for recruitment was based on wanting to talk to towny people over this possible whimsical theory based on no more than what we all can see, but some of the posting indicates leaning into it more than mere whimsical fantasy. Also clearly balance wise this would be overpowered, even a causal observer could figure that out. Offering this reason without vetting it is a rather unforced error though. I am tempted to declare this a wash

I think we would have chosen to recruit townie people even if we weren't theorizing that we might be able to protect them

[Von Payne]

We think we can potentially prevent Bad Dreams from performing Night actions by forcing them to stay awake. Prism and Catgirls both expressed that they didn't want to be recruited. I had a tinfoil that maybe one of them could be scum trying to make sure they can utilize their ability by not being recruited

You say you did it for protection
but you also say this.

What one was it? Both?

Also if the roleblock theory was recent did that mean you went into the night assuming you were protecting Sunflower N1?

The fact that I am having to repeat myself here lets me know you're not reading my posts

I explained why we recruited you in 1988

wrt Sunflower, we didn't assume we were protecting Sunflower but we thought it was a possibility

[Von Payne]

I actually think the theory came after we recruited Sunflower

[Von Payne]

Yep. I confused myself because at one point we switched from discord to a hydra PT and the theory is one of the first things we talked about in the hydra PT, but Drew actually proposed it after we had already recruited Sunflower

[Von Payne]

Shrug idk why I'm entertaining the idea of defending a slot who wants to just insult my reading comprehension every five seconds maybe I should just stop.

I'm sorry if you feel insulted. You were asking me questions that had already been asked and wanting explanations that I already provided

[Von Payne]

beyond this i do dislike the way von payne went “oh aureal and hu both need more” before progressing to develop a scumread on the latter, admitted to not really reading aureals posting and then coming out with a townread that vanishes only after the hider crumb stuff

I don't see how this couldn't come from town that is barely keeping up with the game

[Von Payne]

It explains why I skimmed over Aureal's posting initially. When I finally read them I townread them. Of course that's going to vanish once someone gets a guilty on her

[Von Payne]

I don't really think that makes us scum but it seems like you are looking for reasons so you do you I suppose

[Von Payne]

I'm not going to be able to prove to you that it was a townie sequence, and I shouldn't have to prove to you that it could

potentially

be one because I know you've played games where townies get it wrong a lot

There's not much else I can say other than I've been lazy this game

[Von Payne]

i mean wolf play isn’t always going to be perfect imo. sometimes a wolf goes ooh a chance to make it really seem like i’m a solving townie and then they add in a ton of details and little flairs that make them appear genuine. and then you have to add repairs when the flaws in your fake stories start to show

beyond this i do dislike the way von payne went “oh aureal and hu both need more” before progressing to develop a scumread on the latter, admitted to not really reading aureals posting and then coming out with a townread that vanishes only after the hider crumb stuff

(if i missed an important part of progression there that i need for context lmk i was ctrl f on me phone but that’s what i see it as)

I think that was me that posted about Hu and Aureal.

I stated before that I can usually read her well as town, and I am starting to get to that point with Hu. The wagon was growing on Hu, and I did not see the townieness, so I hopped on board.

Aureal than made a post that to me was like 'classic townAureal', I even said as much in thread.

And I still was thinking town Aureal on d2, but there was strong evidence to the contrary with the hider thing

[Von Payne]

Which aureal post was classic aureal post and provide tge meta you used to deduce it.

I will bring up the post later, but the meta is that I just read her well when she is town.

It is all vibes, she comes off very frustrated in a way I didn't think she could fake as scum, I was finally wrong about her lol

There, that is the meta

[Von Payne]

ok um well based on what i've seen catgirls is likely town may reread in full eventually.von payne if you guys die do we still get to post in thread at night. right

Yes, The Von Payne Show can never die.....even if we do lol

[Von Payne]

idk the unfortunate aspect of this is that town can be this … This

but it’s hard to move past the fact two players who have been around for a while wouldn’t realize that role concealment is bastard maybe i expect too much of the average scummer to know this but… eh

Tbh, I never considered the bastard element of thinking we might have a protective/roleblocking role. As I said, I was just going with the theme of the game, and wondering exactly why we would have a hood that everyone can see, ie we are awake at night, ie those that are awake at night can't be affected by Bad Dreams, ie we are a protective role of sorts

[Von Payne]

I can't tell if Von truly not understanding how out of touch their choices are here is towny or wolfy. Like if this is a wolf fakeclaim it's extremely sloppy. That then begs the question of why? You have multiple nights to justify or come up with a better fake claim and this is the end result? Drew is a good player and while I don't know enough about Black I'm going to assume she's fine enough that I wouldn't see this coming. Them saying "omg are you reading" isn't helpful either (when the irony is on them)

The counter point to this is there has to be so many leaps of logic you need to take for all of this to be well, true.

I will assume this is Ali, since no way Maria would say I am good player after the Union Busting game lol

I can't speak for the interactions you had with Black earlier, truth is we didn't speak at all during all of this, we were kinda both responding in real time.

But, you definitely have first hand knowledge how I would handle a fake claim, and this ain't it.

Also, general question to the class, what exact scum motivation would we have to make this claim? A bulk of the suspicions of our claim is just that it is 'bad choices for the hood' or 'you know this isn't a bastard game right?'

You don't think we would have run it past our buddies first who would have explained this to us? Or better yet, chosen 'better' picks of people to hood?

[Von Payne]

That's a Maria post

Well then, thank you for the kind words Maria lol

But forward that to Ali if you could

[Von Payne]

That's a Maria post

Is this Dunn or Gif?

What do you make of the events of the day? Apologies if you did comment, was at work for most of my posting

[Von Payne]

This day is a 1v1 of me and von. Either vote them or me and make either of us fully claim. Consider this me dueling them.

If you were so sure of us being scum, wouldn't it be of a town mindset to figure out our 'buddy'?

[Von Payne]

I dont wanna developed linked reads. but I individually hard scum read catgirl and they make sense as your partner

yes

But we are 100% scum though, right?

You can still lim us, but wouldn't finding out buddy be more helpful to town now?

[Von Payne]

I cant see how would that be a legit question or concern you would post if you actually read past 3 4 pages

Why not?

You apparently have the game solved, finding our buddy should be easy since they allowed us to drop the ball like this, right?

[Von Payne]

This day is a 1v1 of me and von. Either vote them or me and make either of us fully claim. Consider this me dueling them.

I'm absolutely on board for this

[Von Payne]

Help us flip Kirigiri and if she's town we'll lay down tomorrow

[Von Payne]

You heard the woman folks. Let's send scum packing

[Von Payne]

cause if town elims me after I claim

Von and catgirl if I flip green. Go elim me now

You don't ever plan on getting faded here. You're hoping your fake claim keeps you alive and turns the crowd toward us

[Von Payne]

well dont elim me fast though. either put me and l1 so I claim then decide to elim me, or elim von. or just elim von and dont make me claim.

either works for me at this point.

Ahhh now you're backing out of the 1v1

[Von Payne]

cause if town elims me after I claim and/or still doesnt hunt you and catgirls fucking shit after my green flip they deserve to fucking loose

Today should be either me you die. preferably you will die cause town is not stupid but we'll see

Kirigiri is appealing to the intelligence of the crowd here. She wants to make you all feel dumb for not voting for me

[Von Payne]

The fact is I don't play sloppy as scum. Never have, never will. You don't have to believe me but it makes zero sense for scum!me to make up some theory about recruiting Catgirls when I could have simply said I townlean them and moved on

[Von Payne]

Vote Kirigiri 2024

It's election year baby and we're sending this chick packing

[Von Payne]

all that said i do think drew being like "oh yeah?? well who's our buddy??" is bizarre when kyoko has been like very clear on that

Admittedly I was being a bit snarky, I was gonna keep the big going by saying Chipotle was too easy of an answer lol

[Von Payne]

My main reason for scum reading them before them going full obv scum in those three pages, was the bit where black said they want aureal on night 2 neighborized. while they were porttrayiong having aureal as their second town read, there was no need to make such announcement if they didnt have any ulterior motive/didnt think they need to set the game state and tone for it

The whole bit they had about town reading aureal, the read they made and that part mentioning it was scummy.

Now they are just blown out obvscum for that pack of contraditions.

Again, neither of us took into account that having a hidden role would be bastard(and therefore next to impossible), so how can we ask the mod for clarification on something that doesn't exist in our role PM??

It was N1 that I had the thought that they might be a protective role, which I made a post in the Hood alluding to, and I had the town read on Aureal and we pretty much decided that she would be our N2 target for the hood.

After the start of D2 my town read on Aureal was challenged by pretty clear evidence that she was scum, and also around that time Black was thinking we might be more role stopping or jail keeping, which I believe was when we jokingly but not jokingly talked about targeting Chipotle for the hood

Black wasn't really around and Aureal was close to being limmed so I chose Prism as our target, but changed it to Chipotle basically last minute since Prism said they would be barely active at night(if there is anything big to criticize it would be this, I was more focused on having someone active).

Black also wasn't as sure as Chipotle being town as me so she thought if they were scum it could potentially her role blocking theory

This is how it all went down, there were some pivots that we made, but no real contradictions. Again you are just finding maybe some hydra dissonance and/or both heads responding to questions at the same time without talking about things as 'contradictions'.

And again, in what scum world where we.....with another buddy btw, would we play like this?

And I just alluded to it, I was being snarky asking about who our buddy would be......but I also want all your cards out on the table so if we are mislimmed you can't just say all 'oopsies, my bad everyone....no one's perfect right?'

[Von Payne]

And yes I am discrediting you, because you are completely wrong, basically about everything.

And you have been discrediting us since basically the start of the day.

You haven't given us a smidgen of a fair chance here, and ironically doing exactly what Ali said you would do as scum(according to them)

[Von Payne]

And yes I am discrediting you, because you are completely wrong, basically about everything.

And you have been discrediting us since basically the start of the day.

You haven't given us a smidgen of a fair chance here, and ironically doing exactly what Ali said you would do as scum(according to them)

You are discrediting me having a read on other slots in game. Not even my read on your slot.

This makes no fucking sense.

No I was discrediting your read on us, more specifically making fun of your 'this is 100% scum' proclamation. So snarkily(not a word lol) asking you to solve the rest of the game right now. Like I said I was going to continue and call you saying Chipotle is laughable, but I was busy at work and just decided to stop

both heads had aureal as night 2 addition suggestion and it was discussed night 1 or was it only the blacks read?

As I said before, I was convinced as Aureal as scum on D1 and was adamant to Black about it.

[Von Payne]

And yes I am discrediting you, because you are completely wrong, basically about everything.

And you have been discrediting us since basically the start of the day.

You haven't given us a smidgen of a fair chance here, and ironically doing exactly what Ali said you would do as scum(according to them)

You are discrediting me having a read on other slots in game. Not even my read on your slot.

This makes no fucking sense.

No I was discrediting your read on us, more specifically making fun of your 'this is 100% scum' proclamation. So snarkily(not a word lol) asking you to solve the rest of the game right now. Like I said I was going to continue and call you saying Chipotle is laughable, but I was busy at work and just decided to stop

both heads had aureal as night 2 addition suggestion and it was discussed night 1 or was it only the blacks read?

As I said before, I was convinced as Aureal as scum on D1 and was adamant to Black about it.

HUH?

You were talking about me not hunting the third scum when it its last page I was fighting about another slot being scummy.

How was that discrediting my read on you? That had nothing to do with my read on you even in fucking slightest

You know what, I started to type something out....but I literally have to keep repeating myself.

How many times do I have to say I was making light of you saying you were so sure about us being scum, and as you put it 'never been more certain about it' and wanted to be a a bit snarky and call your read on Chipotle as laughable as your incessant discrediting of everything we have done since we voiced a little suspicion you? But I chose not to be, partially because I was at work and partially might have come off more mean than I wanted it to(I read earlier when you said you had anxiety, so outside of game related stuff I don't want to contribute to that)

How many times will you ask where the read on Aureal came from? I have answered multiple times yet you keep asking

I am frustrated, this feels so much like Dannflorr in Dats game that just ended(ironically Black was in that game as well). I repped into Dragoneaters slot who repped out because they were on tilt a bit, so when I came in Dann hardcore pushed the slot, and me in turn. And by push just tunneled me, basically didn't listen to anything I said, and simply made up things.

I joked about it earlier, but Maria did a similar things recently, though I found her tunneling endearing in a way.

I will let you guess what their alignment was in each game......

I am out for a bit, maybe be back later



Pre Edit: LOL..... betting your mafia career?? If you enjoy this game I would highly suggest you don't do that

[Von Payne]

Kirigiri isn't trying to sort us. She's trying to catch us in some gotcha that doesn't exist

Please fade this fool

[Von Payne]

If y'all want to fade us first then fine but please fade her after we flip

[Von Payne]

Catch up. The gotcha part was last day phase, and early this phase.

You are alkready sorted. Its duel time. I wanna take you down even if it means I go down first. I even claimed without being in elim danger to get it done. I dont care.

But you dont have any rights to insult me like that whatever you think you're doing. call me fool again and see what an actual Frozen angel wrath means.

Please. You've been rude and disrespectful throughout this ordeal and you have the audacity to get on me for calling you a fool?

There are things I want to say that I won't say, so I'll just step away

[Von Payne]

If that's how you took it then I apologize. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I think you are scum trying to fool us. I didn't mean it as a knock on your intelligence. You seem very smart

[Von Payne]

If that's how you took it then I apologize. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. I think you are scum trying to fool us. I didn't mean it as a knock on your intelligence. You seem very smart

appology accepted

but even this thought seems contradictory. I in no context tried to explain to you you're scum. Ive been convincing others you are scum. so why you thought I am trying to fool you?

I meant "us" as in the town, not us as in the hydra

[Von Payne]

how sweet

[Von Payne]

Jupiter do you have any thoughts on me vs. Kirigiri?

[Von Payne]

i'd bet one buck that this whole thing is tvt but i need that dollar so honestly i'm really not sure on it. i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone but her rage and frustration here seems very real and genuine and it's hard for me to think that scum is this good at faking emotions.
honestly i think scum lies elsewhere

This was a rollercoaster

[Von Payne]

i want a toy car i would make it go vroom

I think there is no better case for Kyo as scum then this right here

She didn't give Jupiter a toy car

[Von Payne]

Can someone that’s not kyoko, sunflower, or von Payne post

I do agree with this sentiment

[Von Payne]

much like the nature of the dreams here that are not fully known initially, I can make items related to dreams that I can give to other slots. I believe the ghost cam I gave to gimili/enchant was the reason for the second dream reveals in these 2 phases that didnt exist in first phase.

i dont know what the toy car did. prism never got to use it

If you were to assume we are town, who do you think the scums are?

Obviously I don't think you'll ever believe us that we're town but I'm just curious if you're able to pull yourself out of it for a second and consider the gamestate in that world

[Von Payne]

Why is Silver Ravens so disconnected from this game

I feel like Dan should be posting more too

[Von Payne]

I'm not going to shut up just because other people aren't posting

Kinda odd for you to suggest that

[Von Payne]

The universe where you're town and I was wrong on this read cant happen

You're wrong, and I think the assumption that townies can't overlook things is a dangerous game to play when trying to sort people. I don't really think you're trying to sort though

I'll go look for the posts when I get the chance

[Von Payne]

Because I'm barely playing the game. Sometimes things get overlooked. That doesn't mean I'm scum

Your continuous bad faith arguments are pretty annoying

[Von Payne]

I don't even know why I'm even engaging with you

[Von Payne]

Nah I'm not wasting my time with you. I extended a hand and you slapped it away with disgust

We ride the 1v1 out

[Von Payne]

You asked this same question 6 times in past 4 5 pages with different wordings and it was answered both by me and by others

Show me

[Von Payne]

A disgusting act lmfao

You are something else

[Von Payne]

I'm not going to shut up just because other people aren't posting

Kinda odd for you to suggest that

Also Black

I don't even know why I'm even engaging with you

Has this been Ali or Maria posting this page?

[Von Payne]

I think she just means the vibes are bad

I agree, and I've tried to correct them at least from my end but I'm not getting anywhere productive

[Von Payne]

I'm down to talk to anyone about the game in a pleasant manner as long as I receive the same in return

[Von Payne]

Pleaseentaries i approve too

I will just fade and wait others

Hi, I hope you are having a good day


Would you mind responding to 2259?

[Von Payne]

You asked this same question 6 times in past 4 5 pages with different wordings and it was answered both by me and by others

This was your original accusation. You lied. I didn't ask you a single time what your reads would be if you considered us town

You said that just to shade me. It's a completely bad faith argument

[Von Payne]

And instead of just admitting you're wrong you're trying to just move past it like you didn't lie

Can we please fade Kirigiri? Thanks

[Von Payne]

I won't be engaging with her slot any further so if anyone else wants to engage with me to help make your decision between us easier then feel free

[Von Payne]

I haven't put much thought into that

[Von Payne]

I haven't put much thought into that

No one won game with hunting mafia like they are serial killers.

Yeah I just haven't been able to really sink my teeth into this game. It's been on the back burner for me. Not ideal but that's life sometimes

I'll try to look into who makes sense as an Aureal/Kirigiri partner as soon as possible

[Von Payne]

I haven't put much thought into that

No one won game with hunting mafia like they are serial killers.

This is valid, and I might spend some time this evening going through D1 and and seeing if there is anything Aureal can give that partners her with someone not named Kyo

I kinda want to not focus on Kyo, mainly for the health of the game and to not hog the day with both of our bullshit lol

Von Payne can annoy you plenty at night

[Von Payne]

My main reason for scum reading them before them going full obv scum in those three pages, was the bit where black said they want aureal on night 2 neighborized. while they were porttrayiong having aureal as their second town read, there was no need to make such announcement if they didnt have any ulterior motive/didnt think they need to set the game state and tone for it

The whole bit they had about town reading aureal, the read they made and that part mentioning it was scummy.

Now they are just blown out obvscum for that pack of contraditions.

Again, neither of us took into account that having a hidden role would be bastard(and therefore next to impossible), so how can we ask the mod for clarification on something that doesn't exist in our role PM??

It was N1 that I had the thought that they might be a protective role, which I made a post in the Hood alluding to, and I had the town read on Aureal and we pretty much decided that she would be our N2 target for the hood.

After the start of D2 my town read on Aureal was challenged by pretty clear evidence that she was scum, and also around that time Black was thinking we might be more role stopping or jail keeping, which I believe was when we jokingly but not jokingly talked about targeting Chipotle for the hood

Black wasn't really around and Aureal was close to being limmed so I chose Prism as our target, but changed it to Chipotle basically last minute since Prism said they would be barely active at night(if there is anything big to criticize it would be this, I was more focused on having someone active).

Black also wasn't as sure as Chipotle being town as me so she thought if they were scum it could potentially her role blocking theory

This is how it all went down, there were some pivots that we made, but no real contradictions. Again you are just finding maybe some hydra dissonance and/or both heads responding to questions at the same time without talking about things as 'contradictions'.

And again, in what scum world where we.....with another buddy btw, would we play like this?

And I just alluded to it, I was being snarky asking about who our buddy would be......but I also want all your cards out on the table so if we are mislimmed you can't just say all 'oopsies, my bad everyone....no one's perfect right?'

Dunn

Seems you missed this

[Von Payne]

I'm inclined to side with Kyoko Kirigiri, I do feel that Von Payne has been changing what they are arguing based on what other people have asked them.

the ulterior motive was to answer a question that was being repeatedly asked of them in 4 pages and they made a tactical mistake on it to declare they had a hidden motive for going with catgirl as their choice. so they felt the need to make one and it made no sense, so they changed it and it still made no sense and they kept working on it to make a full story that makes a bit of sense.

I agree with this more than the counterargument of asking why mafia would play this way; sometimes they slip up and have to keep going with something.

We didn't change our story. This whole thing could have been avoided if I had mentioned our protective theory at the same time I brought up the roleblocking theory. I didn't think to mention it because I was providing reasons why I wanted to recruit Catgirl

If we get faded over this then just please fade Kirigiri next

[Von Payne]

I need Von to explain because do you

think

you have some of hidden action? If so, why?

Or are you just saying you

do

have that power?

How long have you been thinking this? Since game start? N1? etc.

Because if either of these were the case why would you do it on two slots you've openly said you TR? Why would you block there? I'm confused.

They just explained that as the hidden reason why they chose you in night 2.

Von Payne, what makes you think your role would prevent the bad dreamers from acting at night? Surely your role tells you what it does, is there some confusion?

Nothing in our role PM said we have this ability, it has just been a working theory that Black am I have shared my based of the flavor and theme of the game(and popped into my head after randomly thinking about nightmare on elm street lol).

Bad dreams can't get you if you are awake at night

We don't know how kooky of a theory it is, but that is where our headspace is at

Inb4 'still should have hooded Prism them'....which is fair, but wanted someone active(and I have thought we are more protective while Black is more we prevent bad dreams night actions)

This was Drew's first post in the exchange. He even brings up the protective theory here because that was the dominant theory in the PT. The roleblocking thing was so miniscule comparatively and was talked about over the span of like 3 posts much later in the PT

It seems like people are scumreading us because they think we just came up with the protective theory out of no where but Drew already had it on his mind here

[Von Payne]

This is sad. I feel like we're getting scumread because of me not mentioning the full scope and timeline of our theories and I don't know how to prove that those theories are real

[Von Payne]

idk maybe im dumb and they should be obvious but i don't really see major contradictions that aren't explained by

1) the two heads having differing perspectives on things

2) them not being exactly sure whether they think their role would be protective or role blocking or neither and it more just being a vague theory

They would have to have one head thinking it was a roleblock, and the other head thinking it was a protective, and for both heads to agree to target the same person. That seems like a huge disconnect, and not really realistic.

We both thought it was protective when Drew first proposed it on the 14th. The roleblocking theory popped into my head on the 20th when I got pinged by Prism saying he didn't want to be recruited. It seems like a dumb thought now that I know none of this is possible but it's a legit thought I had

Drew didn't want to target Catgirls to roleblock her. That was something I was thinking and it was more of like insurance in case Catgirls was scum

[Von Payne]

I would be lying if I said I didn't have that thought

2289 seems extremely vague when I feel like there was a ton of nuance to the conversation and what our slot said

[Von Payne]

Idk. I promised Drew I would dedicate time either tomorrow after work or Monday after work to sit down and really put critical thought into posts and interactions that I'm foggy on

[Von Payne]

With the claim and votes in order there isn't much left to do this day. Depending on Aureal's role, I'd probably flip Von Payne into (Ravens, Kirigiri, Catgirl, Sunflower) in later days.

good reads

Obviously they aren't good in regards to us(and ya I am different than in JOAT.....I have a role that I am utilizing lol)

But I do believe the overall sentiment

A bit of a crazy thought here, what if we flip Ravens instead of Kiri today?

[Von Payne]

They said it was why they wanted catgirl/prism

No we didn't. We said that was one of the reasons and it wasn't even a prominent one. Stop misrepresenting us

Black specifically mentioned she wanted to go for those two slot for the role block idea which on its own makes no sense

Again you are twisting my words to make me look worse. The roleblocking was only part of the equation

[Von Payne]

I would like to think I know how to read

I would like to think so too but you keep misrepresenting what I've said for some reason

[Von Payne]

Oh that was Catgirls lmao. Disregard

[Von Payne]

btw the reason why FA is posting like this is because she thinks it'll lead people to believe that she's a self-righteous townie or some bullshit

Yep, exactly. She's had like 20-30 posts just repeating herself

[Von Payne]

in general villagers are just easier to find than mafia

I genuinely disagree but it might be a different approach and point of view.

Finding mafia is about finding who is faking having reads, is about finding who has a pattern of mindset and reads and actions that has blatant contradictions.

Anyone can fake anything a town can do.

finding scum is so easier

What contradictions though? Seriously. I looked over the whole thing last night and the only thing you could even remotely consider a contradiction was me omitting the protective theory. And that's not a contradiction, that's just me not providing the full scope of our theories

[Von Payne]

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion and there's no way a townie twists and turns this the way Kirigiri has done

[Von Payne]

btw the reason why FA is posting like this is because she thinks it'll lead people to believe that she's a self-righteous townie or some bullshit

Yep, exactly. She's had like 20-30 posts just repeating herself

this post did give me like a sudden wave of clarity due to neuron connections being made to the way a certain flavorful piece of plant matter plays scum

and like if i mentally frame things that way then yeah i guess that helps take away some of my hesitations to vote

Can you rephrase this? I'm having a hard time understanding it

[Von Payne]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

If Kiri flips red then we are most likely dead tonight so I think in that world it makes sense for me to put this out there

[Von Payne]

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after

but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

i forgotthere were three scum. no one fucking look atme no one fuckign look at me im embarrassed

This doesn't make sense? You knew there were three scum when you wrote the top post

[Von Payne]

can you go into detail with your read on kiri

[Von Payne]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

i don't get this, explain your thought process here

be more specific about where ive been hedgy and how that would benefit me as scum

i feel like ive been pretty clear how ive been reading things

I think you have tried to maintain a stance that my slot is town but you've woven in a lot of comments that seem fence-sitty

To me it kinda feels like theatre with Kirigiri the way you have engaged with her slot a bunch, and you seem to be on the Von!town train yet extremely hesitant to vote for her

Here are the comments that gave me the hedgy vibes


2180 directly following 2179

I read 2116 and it feels like you have put a lot of thought into my slot and there is a sense of conviction throughout this post. You leave the door open near the end but generally it seems like you've made up my mind about me here, and if not you seem pretty close to getting there. I don't think this matches your overall stance of being unsure where to go in the 1v1

----------

Then there's this:

idk im wavering

i see what you're saying

i feel like i don't have anyone that i really trust to be town to talk to in this game and i think its always really hard for me to feel stable without that, i am too influenceable

i thought playing as hydra would help and it did at first but jupiter has been busy lately so he isn't really up to date on things rn

ydra help

----------

And this is all over the place, as I pointed out at the time Jupiter posted it:

Jupiter do you have any thoughts on me vs. Kirigiri?

i've read the thread but it's one of those things where you like, you pick up a book and read the entire thing but it's notlike you know what's going on really. so i haven't been paying attention to the specifics, just that the gist of it is that you guys didn't realize hidden role was bastard (tbh I didn't either), kirigiri thinks that's weird and pushes you, and then like the past ten pages have been a free-for-all
i'd bet one buck that this whole thing is tvt but i need that dollar so honestly i'm really not sure on it. i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone but her rage and frustration here seems very real and genuine and it's hard for me to think that scum is this good at faking emotions.
honestly i think scum lies elsewhere

also what are inventor roles. i think someone claimed that but idr who, is anyone willing to explain

----------

This also feels like you're giving yourself an out:

i am gonna be like really honest and you will probably not like this if you are actually town im sorry

but i think if you flip town it wouldn't change my opinion on von payne very much

i don't really think that's where i would jump to next in that world

i would definitely give it some heavy consideration but i don't think it's like a guarantee

----------

This:

catgirls seem more confident in us having decided our vote than i am

i guess it is pretty unlikely i end up wanting von here but i keep rereading things anyway

idk decisions are hard

----------

And then there's this, which makes me think you would be close to voting Kiri here, yet nothing

there's some scum players out there who are really fond of the approach of just dominating thread with posts and repeatedly spamming the same point over and over and self-quoting and drowning everyone else out and disregarding any counterpoints. it somehow works a surprising amount of the time because usually you only need to get 1 or 2 people to be browbeaten by it and back off, even if everyone else is against you

your comment made me like suddenly recognize that pattern as something that kyoko's posting feels somewhat similar to and it was a moment of like, oh. i think i see this for what it is now

[Von Payne]

I think if Kirigiri flips scum I need to seriously re-evaluate my Sunflower read

I think in general they have felt pretty hedgy with this whole Von/Kiri debacle

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

hi jupiter here its3am but I’ve skimmed a bit and silver ravens is scum. Will look into partners after but the way they approach the aurela is scummy. i think Dan is townier from that and ravens hopping onto that seems like trying to get as much towncred cuz aureals clearly already getting limmed
Dan town because people genrally thought it was klick (i thought it was filming at the time) pointing out its aureal and forcing a lim on her is just like. if they’re partnered what’s the point, i skimmed dragons iso and i didn’t even notice that bit, they’re just exposing partner and setting their team at a disadavnthe.
and bc Dan pointed it out and made it prerry clear that it was aureal silver ravens gains most towncred imo from agreeing with Dan and bussing straight off the bat, I think it’s scum hre

If Kiri flips red then we are most likely dead tonight so I think in that world it makes sense for me to put this out there

How is this evaluation related to my flip btw? How is this related ro me flipping red?

If they are not considering me as aureal partner why it didnt make you think they might be scum with tmi knowing im flipping green and hence finding other options?

Im not gonna flip red, play this thought for me a sec, hypotetically if thats an information, how does it effect this analysis?

Well my current theory is that you two could be scum together. If you flip red I'm close to conftown (not fully obviously) so I don't think I survive the night

If I try to consider a world where you flip green then I still find Sunflower's hedginess scummy I guess. I haven't thought about partners in that world because this is a recent development and I'm running out of time to post today

[Von Payne]

i've always generally townread kyoko in the past but it isn't a slot that i've been paying much attention to.

Also this ↑ doesn't really match with this ↓

i think kirigiri is most likely scum out of everyone

[Von Payne]

Maybe it is just Sunflower/x

Idk I need to dive deeper but I don't think I'll get a chance until Monday after work

[Von Payne]

Deadline in 2 days 6 hours. Fuck

So that gives me like 2 hours before deadline after work Monday

I'm down to stretch Day that long if everyone else is

[Von Payne]

Can we get a show of hands on who thinks they can be here Monday around the deadline?

[Von Payne]

be more specific about where ive been hedgy and how that would benefit me as scum

If you are scum with Kiri then you're leaving the door open to hop on my wagon late in the Day

If you are scum and Kiri is town then you're positioning yourself to push me along with everyone else that inevitably pushes me if Kiri flips today

Whoops sorry. Quoting this for the ISO. This is my main

[Von Payne]

I think Jupiter voting outside of the 1v1 is probably +partner equity with Kiri. If Kiri were town they could easily just get on her wagon

[Von Payne]

i know you have mostly played with scum me and haven't seen town me very much so maybe you don't really know how hard it is for me to actually place votes down in situations like this but i am just like the kind of person who always wants to see more information and keep rereading and feeling like if i do that then somehow i will feel better about making a choice, even if im leaning heavily in one direction already

if i were scum here i think that being noncommittal here is like the worst possible play in every universe and so it's kind of wild that you think that would be something i would intentionally do. with literally any possible combination of alignments between you/kyoko it would benefit me more as scum to be decisive

If indecisive and noncommittal is an aspect of your town game then why would you acting like your town self as scum be the worst play in the multiverse?

[Von Payne]

Also I find it strange that you started off asking me how you are being noncommittal and now you are like "oh yeah I do that as town"

[Von Payne]

I took a bit of step back here, will be around a bit tonight, and maybe tomorrow night.... probably not at deadline though

I am letting

Jesus

Black take the wheel here, and I do like her pushing Sunflower here

If Kyo would is actually town and stops just quoting their own posts as some sort of 'own' of us, maybe she would play the game and look at others?

What town motivation are you showing now??

[Von Payne]

Can you and black answer the questions I've outlined in 2452?

Well 1531 was just after Black went on tilt a bit in regards to Gim's.....I wasn't really town reading too much after he made his post to D1, but still was probably more townie then Black could have ever been lol

But I did think Gim's was townie before that since he seemed to me like he was in one of my first games I returned to here back at the end of 2022......basically the town leader type imo

But again, his eod1 post threw me for a loop

[Von Payne]

about 1735 and the next few posts, we really haven't talked to much about reads up until that point.....we have kinda been on a 'post our opinions in chat, and go from there'

I did think this seemed like Hu in the union busters game though, hence why I was agreeing with Gim's on his poe......and thought it was funny how Black doubled down on the vote lol

[Von Payne]

Inb4 Dragons uses up all 100 posts

On that topic.

I said as much to Black(and mistakenly thought it was Prism who commented on it), but Silver Ravens(not sure if it was gif or Dunn specifically)......I know I agreed with you about Dragon spewing alignment as they post......but after I thought about what you said some more, you have minimal experience with them.......why would you assume this and make it a point to give them benefit of the doubt to let them live?

You should hurry up and respond before Dragon reawakens lol

-Drew

This was me thinking that Ravens and Dragons could be buddies, my subsequent vote on Dragons was to kinda put pressure on both parties

Also, still think this was a bit of tmi from Ravens

[Von Payne]

I might want to see a Drew scum game to understand the extent of his capabilities.

After playing This game with wolf!Drew, whenever I've been able to identify Drew as town, it has been extremely quickly. It's just very easy to tell if Drew is apart of a wolf team or not.

There is also this game that I lost to drew, but the only reason why F4 was lost was because of bullshit. Drew simply just got really lucky. If mechanics were not involved, the game ends.

Ha, those are the same games

And those pesky mechanics

*shakes fist*

Also you never were suspecting me at that point(if I remember correctly), the crazy night action just solidified me being 'town'.....and you falling for the hammer test on me

[Von Payne]

Drew, can u just link demon salyer so I don't have to?
thats the game 2494 references.

[Von Payne]

OH GOD I REMEMBERED INSTANTLY

I actually don't remember much from that game beside the yellow m&m

[Von Payne]

One thing I do want to bring up before the end of the day, especially since it 'seems' like Kyo will be the flip, and if she does in fact flip scum Black did bring up a good point about us being the NK(hence why I want to say this now)

Don't conf Chipotle as town.

I posted as much in our hydra PT just now, the way that Ali predicted how Kyo would act this day phase when getting pressure seems a bit too on the nose and calculated, especially since Kyo is playing that exact way.....seems a bit sketch......Ali could be playing endgame here

Again, this is only if Kyo flips scum(though obviously doesn't clear Chipotle.......or us, if they flip town)

[Von Payne]

And since Kyo brought up Demon Slayer, which Ali and I were scum together in.

Ali was thinking about endgame, how do we win as efficiently as possible.

In that game there was no real need to buss me, but the plan was to buss me anyway to give Ali the extra power(there was a whole dynamic surrounding who hammered and such that was unique to that game).......but Ali knew it was how we could definitely win as fast as possible.

This is 100% in Ali's scum range here.

[Von Payne]

Meh

[Von Payne]

Catgirls/x maybe

[Von Payne]

We forgot to recruit before Day ended so Enchant was selected at random by the mod

[Von Payne]

It's okay, I maria have been solving under the assumption Kiri was town for like, all the phase so this is fine. At least, it is to me.

Yeah I think Catgirl is just scum

I think they purposefully placed themselves on either side of the 1v1 for this very reason. Now Maria can push our slot endlessly and Alisae will take the back seat this time. We get faded and that's two townies down with different sides of Catgirl being behind both charges

[Von Payne]

I haven't had the chance to talk about things with Drew unfortchie so I'm not sure where he stands on this. I've always been more sus of Catgirl than he has though

[Von Payne]

I understand that me not doing stuff is probably scummy but that still isn't enough to make me want to do stuff

I'm unapologetically in my Lazy Era

[Von Payne]

So most likely we are flipped tomorrow. We will honor the 1v1. I'll probably come up with a lazy list of who I think is most likely scum but I'm not sure how useful it will be

[Von Payne]

Well I'm probably just speaking for myself. Drew mentioned a couple days ago that he the day took a lot of fight out of him and that trying to fight against our mislim tomorrow will bring his fight back

I've never really been in a 1v1 as the surviving party so I just assumed our lim was a foregone conclusion. I'm not gonna self vote or anything but I'll understand if people want to fade us

[Von Payne]

That being said I do think scum are going to enjoy the convenience of pushing us so it may be hard to parse

[Von Payne]

okay umm

hmm

???

use your words my guy

[Von Payne]

That being said I do think scum are going to enjoy the convenience of pushing us so it may be hard to parse

now that I said this I feel like scum could easily try to not push me in order to seem townie

games hard yo

[Von Payne]

what do you think will happen next if you get elimmed tomorrow

Hard to say not knowing who is getting axed tonight. Also not sure if I should even speculate about this before the kill?

Are you asking this to sort me?

[Von Payne]

ydra is rolling her eyes at this scum theatre rn

I've been wondering what ydra would have done if she got our role. I'm curious how productive she would have been during the night phase. To me it's just another Day. People being forced to read what we say and not being able to respond doesn't really mean anything to me

[Von Payne]

don't surprised datisi me

[Von Payne]

im asking this to try to see your thought process and bc real time is useful to me to check things late in the game

my gut it saying that if you were faking then you would have felt self conscious and "realized" by now

Wait am I missing something? I'm too high for this

[Von Payne]

So 3v2 ELO

I see

Yeah my awful grip on the gamestate is probably a towntell of mine but obviously you can't be sure I didn't just fake that

[Von Payne]

Well that changes everything. Obviously I'm not ok with our fade tomorrow now

[Von Payne]

This may seem weird but knowing it's ELO kinda makes me a little relieved and I feel like coming up with a decent solve isn't so burdensome now

Maybe I'll tryhard. I would like to win

[Von Payne]

Wait 4v2 I'm dumb but yeah still ELO unless there are role shenanigans

[Von Payne]

So to us that was maybe a bit performative or they forgot their own role

Yeah it just slipped my mind at the time. I wasn't thinking about my role or the extra phase. That's probably why we forgot to recruit someone. I know your next paragraph talks about me lying about that and I can't really refute that. There's no way to prove that mechanic exists

[Von Payne]

I agree everyone should claim

[Von Payne]

It's limlo. Everybody should be claiming. Mass claim is better done before the dream stuff as some things are targeted and mass claim might change things.

is there a reason you decided to go first?

What is the purpose of this line of questioning? Aren't they conftown?

[Von Payne]

i feel like pressuring potential scum to claim first is generally better, no?

Ok I see. I agree with this

[Von Payne]

hello

i understand the necessity of claiming at elo and how clownish what i am about to say is given that we are at the point where it's probably necessary, and that perhaps i have not done the most i can to foster this level of trust, but i really nd truly think it is in the best interests of everyone here if i don't claim and keep the mafia unaware of my role

fmpov i know that other town will go "nooooo grrr that's dumb" but the mafia has to sit here and question what i have that is so troublesome that i don't claim it. it could be nothing. it could be a way to kill one of them if i'm limmed. maybe i have 50 guns. maybe i'm an awesome dreamer backup joat something. who knows.

I strongly disagree with this approach but I can't really force you to claim if you don't want to

[Von Payne]

I don't think ydra would have a hard time coming up with a fake claim if she were scum. Especially considering all her possible scum partners are mechanically sound at the game

I can't really think of any other reason for her to do this if she were scum. She would just fake claim something believable

[Von Payne]

i still think it's catgirls but im sort of lost on the second

This is where I am at

The way yesterday played out I needed to step away from The Von Payne Show last night, didn't really want to think about this game lol.

And my last post yesterday wasn't performative, I just wanted to get it out before I knew the flip......and ya I know I could have posted overnight about it but was kinda something that was just hitting me at that point(and ya, if Kyo did flip scum then I felt like we could very well be the NK)

[Von Payne]

I think Catgirls is obvscum

Gut tells me partner is Enchant with an outside chance at Sunflower

[Von Payne]

I'm pretty sure Alisae has been trying to pocket me all game

[Von Payne]

remember to vote for dreams

we're doing knight, mr beast, double jump

I'm sheeping this

[Von Payne]

Mariah comes across as really desperate here especially after her outburst on the previous pages

[Von Payne]

So Drew, do you think we're a wolf here? I want to hear from you and not Black's thoughts. Yours.

If you think I'm a wolf here I really do not believe you and this is my only chance I'm gonna give you before I just agree with Alisae's read on you.

This is such a weird threat that I only think comes from scum. "Townread us or we'll change our read on you!"

[Von Payne]

Alisae has been wolfreading you the entire phase don't try to change the narrative, the only reason I haven't been fully committed was I thought your reactions couldn't come from scum given how Gimli treated you but I forget that most people don't have the same lines as me.

No one is trying to change the narrative and it feels like you just pulled that out of thin air for no reason

I don't think it makes any sense for Alisae to switch their read on us while Maria simultaneously has doubts. I called it that Maria would push us today while Alisae took a back seat. They saw that and called an audible

[Von Payne]

Okay, you keep talking about Alisae scum but anyone who has seen Maria scum knows I would have at least double the posts I do now because of how much I enjoy scum over town.

The fact Drew isn't talking about the scum game I just had and comparing it to how blatantly different this game is ???

This is a really bad post. Maria is practically begging Drew to townread her off of meta here

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Catgirl Chipotle

[Von Payne]

We may vote Van today because i gonna vote Van next day anyway, so kinda not big difference.

Perfectly fine with that

Scum claims. One of Catgirl/Silver is conf scum and these two are considering fading me

[Von Payne]

Think about it. If Catgirls were town then Silver would be guaranteed scum from their pov. Voting me here wouldn't even be an option

Catgirls is obv scum

[Von Payne]

Enchant is positioning himself to misfade me tomorrow after Catgirls flips scum

It's just Catgirls/Enchant

[Von Payne]

Ya if anyone actually buys blacks bullshit then fucking end me now

[Von Payne]

My reads are fluid and reactionary. Tends to happen when I'm detached from a game. I'm just basing reads on what's in front of me which isn't optimal but that's what I've resorted to

[Von Payne]

Take is so devoid of critical thinking that it just comes from a wolf

Bad read. Townies don't always think critically about a game

[Von Payne]

How to play f6
Dunn: forces can battle with us, it is his only line to win ig
Von Payne: Whatever Dunn says they agree. Genuinely no attempt to actually evaluate or puzzle solve.
Ydrasse:
Sunflower: townslips
Enchant: wants to solve a mafia game

Lmao

This made me laugh ty for this

[Von Payne]

I kinda like my Lazy Era. Less stressful

[Von Payne]

There's some anxiety around being behind and what other people think of me but if I just brush that off I'm cruising

[Von Payne]

Ok so what if Catgirls is telling the truth

Does Silver/Enchant make sense? Enchant trying to vote outside the 1v1 is just giving me major creeps

[Von Payne]

Take is so devoid of critical thinking that it just comes from a wolf

Bad read. Townies don't always think critically about a game

Oh ok

The site is full of townies that don't do anything. If it's ok for them to do it then it's ok if I do it. If you disagree then talk to me about that

[Von Payne]

UNVOTE:

For now

[Von Payne]

Your slot tried to vote outside of a 1v1 yesterday

False equivalency. One of the participants in this 1v1 is confscum

[Von Payne]

I cannot even begin to describe what is wrong with that post

Cool story ig

[Von Payne]

Maria your read is that townies never lack critical thinking which is one of the most mind-boggling reads I've ever seen on the site

[Von Payne]

is the double vote active...?

I think so but truly idk

Voting there was probably incorrect of me

[Von Payne]

standing person emoji

i have been vibing it is true but also trying to read back some because Wow this is a Game !

This is definitely one of the games of all time

[Von Payne]

Ok so what if Catgirls is telling the truth

Does Silver/Enchant make sense? Enchant trying to vote outside the 1v1 is just giving me major creeps

Mafia has a double vote and Enchant has been active and could have hammered if they were mafia; Catgirl has been 2 away from elimination with your vote. It looks like it's Catgirl and Sunflower.

So why wouldn't Catgirl double vote you for the win right now?

[Von Payne]

I was thinking 3 to fade nvm. I'm stupid

[Von Payne]

Catgirls/Sunflower makes sense

[Von Payne]

well looking at the vote count no doublevote seems to be Currently in play

Do they have to vote twice or does it count the first vote twice

[Von Payne]

Wait so can't we prove who has the double vote just by making everyone vote someone twice?

VOTE: Ydrasse
VOTE: Ydrasse