Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 5)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gibdo

give the newbies a warm welcome

[Dannflor]

expecting the two of us to lead town to another perfect win ccs

Hmm.

Probably a joke, but I'm not too sure how much I'm liking this post.

why

[Dannflor]

so i dont understand why you aren’t voting somewhere Rational

[Dannflor]

VOTE: DrNickRivera

I think if RationalMadman truly holds the (wrong) belief that not eliminating Day 1 is best, he’s likely going to have a similar entrance as either alignment.

Town reading him over it feels like you might have too much information

[Dannflor]

And @RationalMadman, yes you are incorrect. There is empirical evidence that good townplay and good town players can achieve a Day 1 scum elimination much better than random chance.

No one is going to vote no elimination with you. If you want to be productive and helpful, stop wall posting about that, and either join a wagon or at the very least start commenting on what you think people’s alignments might be

[Dannflor]

I almost voted Rational out of annoyance too

I don’t think Elements’ vote is particularly scummy

[Dannflor]

ok fuck it ill cause drama VOTE: dannflor
the paranoia won

dann why are you town

I haven’t particularly tried to be towny or do anything this game yet

I thought it was scummy you town read me in the first place lol

[Dannflor]

I’d probably be more involved if this game started not on a weekend, until monday you’ll probably be getting half-ass dannflor

I’ll try to actually read thoroughly tonight if i get some time though

[Dannflor]

I’ll catch up in a few hours

[Dannflor]

I hope Gibdo isn't scum

[Dannflor]

I think Grovyle is probably town being one of the only slots in the game to try and get discussion away from the RationalMadman discourse

I think the attempt to stir up something "spicy" by pushing me and then moving away or getting bored when he didn't really get a reaction is probably town

there's a whole lot of noise in this thread so this read isn't exceptionally strong, but grovyle is at least trying to cut through that noise to some degree

[Dannflor]

you're probably the closest thing I have to a scum read at the moment

[Dannflor]

but I'm still reading

[Dannflor]

I think elements may be town

I would tend to agree

No one I'd really standing out as a scumread so far I think this is the closest to one VOTE: salty

As much as I hate this non-committal play.....coming from you I think it kinda makes you town heh

who are you? Why do you know me so well! How did you know I was town

I think this is kind of a weird response given I know you're pretty comfortable entering the game as noncommittal and with no reads as scum

[Dannflor]

how is that a reaction test and for whom

[Dannflor]

not sure that I'm actually town reading Rational

[Dannflor]

I think Dann is solidly town here

can you describe this read

[Dannflor]

I'm scum reading Hu Tao and DrNickRiviera.

I think 111 and 113 from the Dr are more likely to come from scum.

1. the argument itself feels focused on catching Thomith in an inconsistency instead of trying to look at the tone or context surrounding Thomith's vote and unvote
   
2. the way the argument is presented as "everyone look at Exhibit A" is the kind of performative 'talking to the crowd' type rhetoric that comes from scum a lot more than town who think they are onto something

I'm not a huge fan of their posts later engaging Rational, they feel along the lines of how scum might try to engage Rational in order to look good but without really needing to engage in direct content.

I also don't understand why they have me as solidly town that feels out of nowhere

*****

I think Hu Tao's reaction to me in 333 is weird. There's not much genuine frustration here or an attempt to engage me, instead the focus is on the fact that Hu Tao was trying to reaction test, which feels overly LAMIST and honestly I expect more from town!hu at this stage in the game.

I also don't really think SaltiestCactus' posts are scummy but I do think they are the kind of low-hanging posts that scum like to jump on.

****

as for other reads, I'm fine having Grovyle as town for now. I think elements is probably town too. I think her trajectory on Rational doesn't really make sense as scum. I think her initial vote is very visibly weak and I don't think scum makes such an optically bad vote. in general, I think at this point most scum players are going to be town reading Rational (maybe regardless of his alignment)

I think Rational probably leans town and that's probably the simplest answer to his frenzied posting, but I'm not as sure as I'd like to be. I think there's a certain point where most people, even if they strongly believe in what is optimal, will give in out of frustration or try to amicably work with people in some fashion. Rational not letting go of his "no eliminate on D1" philosophy to such a strong degree has me worried he might just be hiding behind that argument

I think Thomith leans towny, I think the way he's engaged so far (especially Rational) hasn't been all that performative and has been keen at trying to get some productive content going

[Dannflor]

i feel like i have more tangible reasons for the Dr but weirdly I'm less confident overall on those than I am with Hu Tao

and I'd like to sheep elements VOTE: hu tao

[Dannflor]

why

[Dannflor]

Because you respond better to being scumread than townread lol

Honestly though, you always sound convincing no matter your alignment so I can’t actually read you/your posts and feel confident either way. I like your opinion on Thom. I think I agree about Rational but unfortunately, their posts do overwhelm me a bit. I’m not sold yet on Grovyle. Cactus is null to me. I don’t have a read either way on Hu. I’ve never experienced scum!Hu so I don’t know if I’m overlooking something obvious.

yeahhhhh I have a habit of distrusting people who town read me and town reading people who scum read me

is there a particular reason you aren't sold on grovyle

I'll admit I think Grovyle is a good player as both alignments and I think there's some chance my read there is wrong but I kind of need Grovyle to be town right now or my bearing in this game just goes out the window

also is there a reason you decided to sheep hu tao out of everyone

[Dannflor]

I am also having a hard time getting into this game and I feel myself forcing a little

I guess right now my senses are tuned towards people who are vibing and trying to look town because this seems like a gamestate where scum don't have to do much more than that

[Dannflor]

I could vote awesomeming

I don't think they've particularly town told

I don't think they're particularly scummy either

[Dannflor]

Ok first post!
Generally, my reads so far are that DrNickRiviera and Elements seem most town to me. It's good to poke at the other players to get a feel for their playstyle before jumping to any conclusions.

I don't necessarily agree with voting on D1 but trying to turbo end DP1 without any kind of info gathering or reads is really scummy.

No major scum reads thus far, but if I had to point fingers it would probably go to VOTE: VOTE: RationalMadman because I just disagree with the game reasoning the user put forth overall. Mafia can't get too much of a PR read on DP1 since everyone is finding their footing anyway and posting without any real substance.

you said you don't necessarily agree with voting someone out on Day 1 but you also voted Rational who has been the biggest advocate for not voting someone out, can you explain more on why? do you think your disagreement with Rational's takes mean he's more likely to be scum?

[Dannflor]

vibes

and I have more experience with hu tao from other games

[Dannflor]

*post* 100 */post* but replace asterisk with brackets and 100 with whatever number post number you want

[Dannflor]

team is probably something like gibido/cactus/elements atp but knowing myself thats probably only 2/3. i don't think this is a difficult game though even if part of that is wrong tho (unless it is a hard game in which case good luck yall im always dead before limlo)

can you case elements because im not seeing it

[Dannflor]

it's not really the initial vote but the trajectory afterwards

people called it like opportunistic but i think an actually opportunistic!scum vote would have invented some reason for Rational to be scum, elements fully admits that she isn't voting Rational because she necessarily thinks he's scum, at least not until later in the game

[Dannflor]

VOTE: rationalmadman

[Dannflor]

do you think I’m scared of you hu tao?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: rationalmadman

This vote surprises me from you. You may actually be scum

the last time you said i had such a “holy bad vote that i might actually be scum” i was town btw

[Dannflor]

VOTE: hu tao

I have too much respect for you to think you are making these posts as town

[Dannflor]

VOTE: rationalmadman

This vote surprises me from you. You may actually be scum

the last time you said i had such a “holy bad vote that i might actually be scum” i was town btw

This is an interesting response. Considering you said I'm scum, but this mindset implies I'm town

A. I give most people the benefit of the doubt because I’m constantly doubting my own scum reads, I think you likely know this

B. You’re first instinct when interacting with me is to attack logical inconsistencies, not try to engage me in anyway that’ll help you read me or me to read you, and I’m pretty sure you can do better

[Dannflor]

I think Rational is mostly just contributing to a line of discussion that isn't very productive for the town. (Elements was a little bit too, but I got the vibe that she was moreso trying to pick apart the idea, which seems towny to me.) I have a scummy-ish read on Rational but it could just be a more confrontational playstyle, idk.

I agree with this pretty much such that I don’t mind the bandwagon there and I don’t think Rational is an easy write-off town read like a lot of people are assuming

[Dannflor]

I don’t think most scum players generally like to look like they are just pushing a policy vote

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Thomith

Thomith can you tell me which votes on Rational you think “stink” and why?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Thomith

Thomith can you tell me which votes on Rational you think “stink” and why?

Why did you vote me and now Thomith? Looks opportunistic, trying to be the 3 or 4 of 7 seeing what sticks. Very strange.

my reads are fluid

[Dannflor]

I think I've settled on you likely being town but I think Thomith might be whiteknighting you a bit too hard

gun to head I think the wagon on you is town driven right now

[Dannflor]

you're wrong

[Dannflor]

I'm not sure what the point of this post was?

hu tao said that she thought I was scum trying to get her out early because in previous games where she was town and I was scum I had been eliminated

which is like, factually true, but that also implies that I'm for some reason specifically afraid of hu tao "catching me," and I was dubious that hu tao would actually believe that

[Dannflor]

gun to head, do you have a read on Rational right now, Thomith?

[Dannflor]

ooh opportunistic backstabber

[Dannflor]

VOTE: hu tao

[Dannflor]

What do you think my reaction would be

[Dannflor]

I empathize with Elements' Rational vote even though I think Rational is probably town

[Dannflor]

I empathize with Elements' Rational vote even though I think Rational is probably town

Why

Because I think Rational's posting is actively harmful to Town EV at worst and annoying/creating disengagement at best

[Dannflor]

What do you think my reaction would be

I don't want to say yet

okay, well, I just kinda think you're making that read up

[Dannflor]

Anyone not voting salty can they tell me why salty could be town?

I think his posting feels unagenda'd and like he's trying to figure out the game

[Dannflor]

Why would we want to eliminate him.

same reason I half wanted to eliminate Random Nurse, the innocent child, in our last game

[Dannflor]

I could just make something up if that was the case

sure, I also don't think it's unlike scum!you to be cagey for no reason

[Dannflor]

Dann and Elements (possibly can throw in Grovyle) are thinking almost exactly as I am, seem town enough for me for now

I've played a few games with only Dannflor, and maybe I'm misremembering, but criticizing others' reads of him doesn't seem like his scum playstyle.

I haven't talked about gibdo yet but I think they lean town after these posts

For context, Gibdo is an IRL friend I invited specifically to play this game. As far as I know he has no experience in forum mafia, his experience with me is relegated to a few face-to-face mafia games we played years ago.

- I think his attempting to pull some meta (no matter how outdated it might be) from those face-to-face games is probably indicative he's genuinely trying to solve me
- I think his statement that he's thinking almost exactly how 3 other players are thinking is somewhat unlikely to come from scum. I think that framing looks kind of blatantly sheepy and pockety and I think scum, especially scum that might feel a bit awkward about this format would be hesitant to avoid that
- above all I think Gibdo not really playing or even mentioning the newbie card at all and just throwing himself into figuring things out as he goes is indicative he's just interested in solving the game rather than looking town

[Dannflor]

Anyway I'm not saying I want to eliminate Rational I'm just saying I empathize with the emotions that lead to Elements' vote

[Dannflor]

hu tao do you have a read on awesomeming

[Dannflor]

DrNick is maybe town

[Dannflor]

idk I think my Grovyle town read is getting weaker on the basis of other town reads getting stronger


and also the fact that i think his solve in 399 is somewhat likely to be 0/3

they also keep talking about how elements is scum but don't really seem engaged in pushing that convincingly

[Dannflor]

hu tao is maybe trending upwards but im stubborn and dont want to admit it

[Dannflor]

idk I kinda liked how they reacted to me criticizing their town read on me by doubling down

[Dannflor]

VOTE: camelCasedsnivy

[Dannflor]

I think that's a fair read

[Dannflor]

That’s fine I’m not wildly confident on Gibdo or anything

[Dannflor]

I’m also not calling you scum just thinking out loud that my top town read of you has degraded somewhat

[Dannflor]

I agree Hu Tao’s 563 feels like it lacks a town persoective

[Dannflor]

Perspective*

[Dannflor]

I mostly voted there because I started town reading Thomith again and wanted to follow him, and CCS hasn’t done much of anything really.

[Dannflor]

I think I want to go back here though VOTE: hu tao

[Dannflor]

I think the mentality behind 563 and the whole way Hu Tao has approached Rational and the wagon on Rational is scum indicative

I think Rational probably looks the most like untouchable obvious town to scum that are informed of his alignment. All of me, elements, Gibdo and Grovyle have voted Rational or expressed annoyance about Rational while also staying he might be town. We can’t all be scum, and I’d wager the majority of us, if not all, are uninformed of Rational’s alignment and are unable to just do a robotic “yep Rational obvtown time to ignore his posts”

also think she’d probably be more interested in searching for the scum pushing Rational if she indeed thinks Rational is obv town and any votes on him are ridiculous

[Dannflor]

-_-

[Dannflor]

I mostly agree, but I'm not comfortable writing off Rational as obvious town. If he's experienced as he has repeatedly claimed, it's still very possible he's just causing a huge scene now to mitigate suspicions on him later.

I largely agree, and I've gone back and forth on Rational a bit myself

Right now, I've settled on him likely being town but I've had doubts

I think Hu Tao is expressing an unnatural amount of confidence because she *knows* Rational is town

[Dannflor]

also think she’d probably be more interested in searching for the scum pushing Rational if she indeed thinks Rational is obv town and any votes on him are ridiculous

[Dannflor]

i like voting people i don't necessarily want dead or even scum read to see how people react and how people might choose to join or not join the wagon

grovyle is trying to solve the game I think

can you just take a step back and relax for a moment? You're not going to die today

If you're town, I do actually want to work with you, but you spending every waking moment in thread shouting at people about how bad they are and how good you are does nothing to help and actively makes people tune you out

[Dannflor]

for what it's worth, I think awesomeming's 412 is scummy, it seems overly focused on winning the argument with logic and evidence as opposed to trying to get a genuine read on Rational

I currently prefer to vote Hu Tao but I would mind if awesomeming and Hu Tao were the main two competing wagons

[Dannflor]

actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was two scum

[Dannflor]

As scum there is no reason to stop an easy miselim that could go on my partner instead day 1.

You genuinely believe you have no motivation to white knight a slot like Rational D1 as scum? that scum don't like to call controversial "easy miselims" town for cred?

[Dannflor]

I think this is scum camel. As town I remember him being different

I don't see it

[Dannflor]

no-elimination is sometimes optimal if there's an even number of people alive to bring the game back to odds, (this is because it's easier to hit scum with an odd number of people alive) or if there has been a mass-claim and night actions can secure a win, but those are pretty niche circumstances

[Dannflor]

I started off the post with the intention to defend and only got to the conclusion that rational is scummy as a by-product. Getting a genuine read on rational wasn't the purpose I began the post and so that's probably why it seems so

ok

i still don't really buy you scum read Rational for the reasons stated

[Dannflor]

no-elimination is sometimes optimal if there's an even number of people alive to bring the game back to odds, (this is because it's easier to hit scum with an odd number of people alive) or if there has been a mass-claim and night actions can secure a win, but those are pretty niche circumstances

That's not even remotely how it works. That's nonsense talk.

okay we're going to have to agree to disagree

if you really want we can take this discussion up after the game but there is a wealth of empirical evidence that supports my approach

[Dannflor]

it’s been hard to get a substantial lasting wagon on anyone

@DrNick I’d prefer you join the Hu Tao wagon if you have suspicions there

[Dannflor]

look rational if i was scum and wanted to get town read by you, believe me, i could

[Dannflor]

i don’t really think KJQ is that scummy

I think don’t know what separates camel from other “unremarkable” posters

I want more votes on Hu Tao

[Dannflor]

I think Kay has been basically going with the flow of the game. And being sus of whoever is being voted in the moment. I think that's why that leads to her scum list not really sounding good

I think players this description is accurate for are much more likely to be town on average

Scum are generally less likely to be fluid in who they are suspecting and want to avoid looking like they are just going with consensus low hanging fruit

I think KJQ’s half hearted scum pool fits with that of a disengaged townie

I think you trying to paint her half-heartedly naming a few names as possible scum as being scummy and inconsistent is a scummy push in itself

[Dannflor]

i don’t really think KJQ is that scummy

the thing for me is that it feels like she's hiding behind the "can't really get into this game" a bit too much

I think this is a more valid point but I think KJQ has been a little more open about it than I'd expect for scum, it's more vulnerable than defensive if that makes sense?

[Dannflor]

Hi black vote hu tao please

[Dannflor]

wait nvm good job carry on

[Dannflor]

I can get behind a KayJay vote if anyone wanted to start a wagon there

I'd actually be more apt to vote Hu Tao over KayJay. Still gonna refrain from voting because I'm not confident enough yet, but 640 just raises some alarm bells for me because I can think of a couple good reasons why you would not want to stop a mislim.

I’d like to see you use that vote too

[Dannflor]

I actually don't see Dann pushing me like this as town, so I'm leaning scum on him now. I could understand a push but a tunnel like this is not like him ever.

Your reads are barely skin deep and I haven’t felt this certain about a scum read in a long while

It’s not like I’m really known to tunnel as scum either so I think you’re just grasping at straws

[Dannflor]

I actually don't see Dann pushing me like this as town, so I'm leaning scum on him now. I could understand a push but a tunnel like this is not like him ever.

Your reads are barely skin deep and I haven’t felt this certain about a scum read in a long while

It’s not like I’m really known to tunnel as scum either so I think you’re just grasping at straws

Ehhh

First real chink in the armor for you Dann

Okay!

[Dannflor]

I am being levelheaded

I have a collection of reads I feel good about, I’m not not reading others

I want to build a bigger wagon on you because I feel good about you flipping scum

If I’m wrong I’ll probably change my mind before killing you

[Dannflor]

There’s no reason I would specifically feel the need to get rid of you

I think you’ve misread me more times than not

[Dannflor]

Well if you found out I was town, how would that change your reads?

I’d look at people like DrNick who have voiced suspicion of you but are specifically avoiding your wagon

I probably wouldn’t town clear the KJQ slot as hard

[Dannflor]

beyond that idk I’ll cross that bridge when my read on you changes or you get flipped

[Dannflor]

but right now it feels like you’re scum reading me for political reasons rather than actually believing I am scum

maybe I’m being confbiased! hopefully I’ll figure it out if I am

[Dannflor]

Anyone else?

maybe I’d look closer at grovyle too, idk

[Dannflor]

Okay

[Dannflor]

someone said they are scared about the speed of this wagon, remember wagon speed is not indicative of alignment

[Dannflor]

It's hard for me to imagine Dannflor jumping straight to counter-attacking a scummy read on him instead of trying to justify his thoughts, even if he does strongly suspect Hu Tao.

I’m maybe snarkier than I usually am because this game has annoyed me and I feel it’s been hard to build a wagon on hu tao despite people stating suspicion of her (up until this point)

But I do justify why I’m going so hard on Hu Tao if you read that post again

The quality of her read on me is just another reason

[Dannflor]

please don't entertain the madman, elements

[Dannflor]

mostly rational being loudly wrong about everything and insulting people every chance he gets

[Dannflor]

no I want to kill scum

[Dannflor]

not interacting is the the best path forward

[Dannflor]

is it crazy to want to town read DGB for 838

DGB just feels so like, in her own world

[Dannflor]

is it crazy to want to town read DGB for 838

DGB just feels so like, in her own world

I don't see how being in your own world is AI?

when you’re scum you have an agenda, partners to keep alive, you need to kill specific people, you kinda have to be more “plugged in” so to speak by nature of the alignment

[Dannflor]

like I think scum are very intentional about how they are positioning around RationalMadman and DGB doesn’t feel like that

[Dannflor]

It’s not an ironclad read but it’s fairly often that slots that feel like that flip town

[Dannflor]

yeah i think it’s fairly likely there’s a scum pushing and a scum defending Rational

[Dannflor]

I think Hu Tao would care more about being run up as town

[Dannflor]

hu tao felt the need the back up her RationalMadman town read with something more substantial because she was being called out for TMIing the read, so she went and looked at a game or said she did but didn't actually critically think about whether RationalMadman's meta is indicative of anything for this game

[Dannflor]

I think Hu Tao would care more about being run up as town

Well this is false. I've self voted as town. Now you're just outing false reads. You've been in a game I've self voted. So now I know you're scum.

this is exactly why I think your behavior this game is off

[Dannflor]

like the reason and emotion around why you self voted was because people weren't believing you and were suspecting you

conversely, in this game, you have a lot of bravado and seem to be trying to act like you don't care about the wagon on you

I think you'd care a lot more specifically because you cared more in that game

[Dannflor]

even now, I don't feel like you actually care about your scum read on me when you compare how you're behaving now versus how you behaved with your naerys scum read in that game

[Dannflor]

like where's the fire Hu Tao?

[Dannflor]

I'm sorry you rolled scum without me

[Dannflor]

I don’t necessarily think Hu Tao would self vote again but I think there would be more passion or agitation behind her reaction to the whole gamestate


As it is 961 reads like false bravado

[Dannflor]

got a secret can you keep it take this one to your grave

[Dannflor]

vibes are the best way to read

[Dannflor]

Day Triple Vigilante Kill:

Hu Tao, camelCasedSnivy, awesomeming

[Dannflor]

I don’t agree

[Dannflor]

eye roll

[Dannflor]

god reading your posts is actually making me feel sick

[Dannflor]

god reading your posts is actually making me feel sick

Me?

Not you

[Dannflor]

1029 is such a gross post

[Dannflor]

like I understand why this is the route you'd take as scum but the performativity when it's very clear you don't care about solving my alignment at all actually makes me sick to my stomach

1029 has two goals

1. give Hu Tao some plausible deniability for if she get's me flipped
2. guilt me into stop pushing her

nowhere in Hu Tao's entire ISO is there any intention of trying to get my thoughts behind my actions and reads and genuinely try to read my fucking alignment, she is stuck in a position where she needs to paint me as scum or she just loses

for all the words Hu Tao has put to how I'm tunneling her, at the very least I am constantly trying to figure out what Hu Tao expects from me as town by articulating the specific reasons *why* I think she'd be acting different and giving her an opportunity to explain

she's responded by jumping on a "contradiction" and campaigning for my elimination because of it

I tried to figure out what she thought my reaction would be as town and she shut me out in 555

I responded to her scummy fucking contradiction case in as good faith as I could and the only response I got was hu tao ignoring me and campaigning for my vote

and then she has the audacity to post 1029 and 1035?

[Dannflor]

like at any point if you actually cared about what alignment I was as opposed to pursuing the agenda that you need to as scum this would have played out different

[Dannflor]

if I try to remove myself from the emotion of the situation and look at things objectively, I think the emphasis on me being "caught lying" and "contradicting" comes from scum a lot of the time

I think Hu Tao's read trajectory on me (going from scummy to idk back to scummy), coincidentally matching up almost exactly to me scum reading, town reading, and then going back to scum reading her again is purely political

I think Hu Tao's blase attitude when people were suspecting her was focused on looking towny and does not match how she behaved around a similar situation in a previous game


I think her only bringing up 981 at the point she did points to her read being manufactured as opposed to a natural reason she thought I was scum

[Dannflor]

anyway,

I think ActionDan has had a mildly towny entrance, I already thought SaltiestCactus was mildly towny. I think Black's entrance was very towny, not just because she pushed Hu Tao but I think the want to push someone before even fully catching up is more indicative of being eager to solve the game than needing to position smartly

DGB I still kinda want to town read but that's not a super confident read

I think the three scummiest slots are hu tao, awesomeming, and camelCasedSnivy, roughly in that order, although CCS is mostly just due to associations with the other two

my top town reads remain grovyle, elements, Black, Thomith, Rational

Gibdo, ActionDan, DGB are in a tier below that

DrNick I don't think I know how to read but he's townier than the other three at least

[Dannflor]

If we agree on awesomeming why not go the path of least resistance? Hit Scum where most agree on Scum before taking unnecessary risks and forcing outs.

i am just orders of magnitude more confident on hu tao flipping red and i think successfully flipping her here comes with a better chance of winning the game long term

[Dannflor]

Can someone explain the huTao again

I do not want to fade hutao before getting dripping camel and salty to get a little more content in

Dr nick, what are you thoughts on hu tao? You said before that you scumread her right

a large portion of awesomeming's scum equity comes from this sequence being a pretty partnery progression/reaction anyways

[Dannflor]

there's also Hu Tao's camel scum read dropping off the face of the earth and CCS seeming to not care about it at all despite calling out hu tao specifically in 693

it just feels like distancing

idk I'm aware I'm loaded with confbias right now and I'd be very pleasantly surprised if I was actually 3/3 right now but it fits together remarkably well and explains why hu tao seems so desperate to get me limmed

[Dannflor]

I'm at like 60%ish percent that awesomeming flips scum and oscillate between like 80-95% that Hu Tao flips scum

with awesomeming I think his case on you was scummy and I think his interaction/reaction to the hu tao wagon is scummy, but there's also a part of me that thinks some of their posting reads uninformed and unbothered and that they are just happy doing their own thing

I'm at a point where I think there's a very slim chance I'm wrong on hu tao and while I think awesomeming has decent odds of being scum I don't think there's harm in letting that slot post more and getting info from say a hu tao flip first

obviously, you're hard town reading hu tao so you're going to disagree with this. if it came down to a choice between hammering awesomeming and another elimination that wasn't hu tao I'd hammer awesomeming, but right now I think it's possible to flip hu tao and I think that's the best choice so I'm going to push for that

[Dannflor]

which of DGB's reads are TMI?

[Dannflor]

its because i think your reads are tmi

@Camel

[Dannflor]

okay but why does that make them TMI

[Dannflor]

also, if I may be so bold to ask, why are you voting me?

[Dannflor]

okay but like

A. the secret tells are to explain scum reads so idk how those can be TMI unless you think DGB is TMIing her scum team mates?
B. how do you differentiate goofball not explaining her scum reads as a playstyle versus making them up

[Dannflor]

also, if I may be so bold to ask, why are you voting me?

your push on hu tao is unnatural to me

do you think hu tao is town?

[Dannflor]

I don't read that as awesomeming trying to get hu tao voted sorry

[Dannflor]

im sorry im so confused but how do secret tells explain scum reads by not explaining them. also yeah thats def a possibility but i wouldn't know because there's nothing to read off of DGB

also personally doesn't seem like a great playstyle but ig i can check if DGB has any other games where they do the same thing

I'm not saying it's pro-town or DGB has made herself imminently readable but it seems like you haven't done any work to actually try to distinguish whether this is NAI or scummy and yet you've jumped to calling it scummy

[Dannflor]

yes im partners with awesomeming you got me

[Dannflor]

I was not trying to eliminate either snivy or thomith

[Dannflor]

I was not trying to eliminate either snivy or thomith

What were you trying to do?

sort them / sort others based on reactions

[Dannflor]

hm and yet you didn't learn between that game and this one

caught lying contradiction!!

[Dannflor]

just because you've done something as town before doesn't mean I don't think it comes from scum more often or that you also wouldn't do the same thing as scum

[Dannflor]

hu tao is maybe trending upwards but im stubborn and dont want to admit it

it has crossed my mind lots and I've had pause about you, most of it I didn't put in thread, but it's also not like you ever tried to plumb my thoughts before jumping to "caught lying and calling my scum"

but here is a point where I was thinking I could be wrong on you

so uh, you're caught lying!! boom!

[Dannflor]

VOTE: awesomeming

[Dannflor]

just because he’s over confident doesn’t mean he’s wrong

[Dannflor]

elements town

[Dannflor]

I agree with Black that awesomeming’s attitude doesn’t really match up with his professed reads

I also think the reaction to his sudden growing wagon is a little too cool

[Dannflor]

overall the way he’s treated me vs hu tao is weird regardless of either of our alignments

[Dannflor]

and yes I’m dropping the hu tao tunnel for today

Enough people have claimed this is a TvT and people I think are town have said hu tao might be town that I think it’s probably wise to take a step back and go for a decent odds scum flip elsewhere

I got very frustrated with hu tao and I don’t know how accurate my reads really are when I’m frustrated

I’ve said everything I need to say anyway so I trust hu tao isn’t going to slip through and end game if I happen to be killed tonight or something

[Dannflor]

i don't believe the claim

+ it's a pretty low power role anyway so I'm fine with a hammer here

[Dannflor]

it's pretty low power with 3 scum alive, but i digress

[Dannflor]

Day Triple Vigilante Kill:

Hu Tao, camelCasedSnivy, awesomeming