Large Normal 247 - Postgame

[Thomith]

Mod created a neighbourhood of 5, had two of them know each other were town and so the pair of them could go shoot in the rest of the hood with a 1 in 3 chance of getting scum?

So I'm assuming you believe me/gypyx are scum together?

[Thomith]

my idea was that there was 2-3 scum and their goal was to pocket the hood members to gain as much time as possible

My assumption was there were multiple scum members too, so our buddying would look suspicious

[Thomith]

...

Let's kill one of them.

Why?

[Thomith]

Keep trying to squirm out of it.

To confirm, you believe both me and Gypyx are scum together?

[Thomith]

Mod created a neighbourhood of 5, had two of them know each other were town and so the pair of them could go shoot in the rest of the hood with a 1 in 3 chance of getting scum?

So I'm assuming you believe me/gypyx are scum together?

I tend to beleive claims until proven otherwise.
Your.claim won't stand up in game for long if false and you both won't be allowed to live till the end so I think I am OK with you staying alive for now.

The fact you're still voting Gypyx contradicts this.

[Thomith]

so i'll assume ranger was in the neighborhood

but that's not quite the question, as gera's post asserts that if the claims are true, you/thomith started the gaming knowing that there was 1 scum in the remaining 3 neighborhood slots

the q is — why does gera think that?

We didn't know anything about how many scum were in the hood, we assumed there was at least 1

[Thomith]

VOTE: Psyche

[Thomith]

what's the point of being coy about the reasons for the vote?

I'm not tryinf to play coy.

I don't hugely know where you stand on the game, and the slot before you replaced in didn't look the best to me already.

You said you have the game narrowed down to 4, but have not explained why you think they all could be scum - could you explain why you think it's between those 4?

[Thomith]

i townlean the rest! imo it should be null at worst that you don't know my stance on the game given that i just got here and the thread has many pages

it is coy to lay down a vote without explanation. at minimum it puts the least possible amount of effort into either rallying votes to a scumread you want limmed or sorting the slot you're actually just pressuring

even after this explanation it's still a mystery what you found scummy about penguinpower's behavior

Do you outright scumread anyone, or is it because everyone else is a townlean?
Could you try and case the 4 people you have it "narrowed down" to?

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Random Nurse

Could go Gera as well, both are refusing to unvote someone I know is town so..

[Thomith]

that's definitely the plan! i'll need to decide if that's really the best pool at this point first though

could you try and explain what you find off pp's iso?

Sure - I'll point out specifics when I'm at a PC later.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Random Nurse

Could go Gera as well, both are refusing to unvote someone I know is town so..

That's adorable.

You say you know Gypyx is Town, but I don't know that. If you were both Scum masquerading as Town-Informed Neighbors of course you would try to protect each other. My gut is screaming that both of you are Scum, and once I sense blood in the water I DON'T let up.

I know that you don't know that, but from my POV I know you are voting in my eyes, someone who is 100% and refusing to unvote or consider another option, which is from my POV anti town.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Random Nurse

Could go Gera as well, both are refusing to unvote someone I know is town so..

That's adorable.

You say you know Gypyx is Town, but I don't know that. If you were both Scum masquerading as Town-Informed Neighbors of course you would try to protect each other. My gut is screaming that both of you are Scum, and once I sense blood in the water I DON'T let up.

Note how I said someone who

I

know is town. I didn't insinuate that you should know that for sure as well.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Random Nurse

Could go Gera as well, both are refusing to unvote someone I know is town so..

That's adorable.

You say you know Gypyx is Town, but I don't know that. If you were both Scum masquerading as Town-Informed Neighbors of course you would try to protect each other. My gut is screaming that both of you are Scum, and once I sense blood in the water I DON'T let up.

Why would we have decided from the very start of the game to just actively buddy each other, have me crumb that I know Gypyx is Town, leaving us absolutely no room to pivot, condemning us both if one of us flipped scum, since there is 0 world where it isn't obvious that we both know each others alignments.
Us locking into that decision from the very start of Day 1 makes 0 sense at all.

[Thomith]

but why is it

scummy

? he doesn't have your pov.

Because when Gypyx flips town, I 100% die next, since I will be confirmed at that point.

Random Nurse is actively working to remove two people who are sure of each other being town from the game, which is benefits scum.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

but why is it

scummy

? he doesn't have your pov.

Why is Naerys scum?

[Thomith]

thomith seems to treat "antitown" and "scummy" like synonyms. sort of surprising from someone with a good number of games played

Do you think this is AI of me?

[Thomith]

Yes me and thomith are masons

but not exactly masons

we are both Town Informed Neighbors, informed that the other one is town and knows they're town

does your comment imply you've figured us out earlier than that nurse?

Gypyx has literally been calling us mason without a PT/masons but not exactly, and I've been calling us Mason adjacent since we claimed.

[Thomith]

thomith seems to treat "antitown" and "scummy" like synonyms. sort of surprising from someone with a good number of games played

Do you think this is AI of me?

it's more of an important thing to keep in mind than sortable on its own.
posts that might make me go "huh" might now fit into a pre-established pattern,
cases i make might appeal to your point-of-view.
et cetera

i'm close to willing to bet the game that you're town based on the play i've seen so far (you and gypyx) and the strength of your claim.
mostly the latter but the former's important too.
i suspect i'll find that you two were a major force behind the ranger lim too

is kind of interesting too that you seem to see RN as a real threat;
the chances of you or gypyx being limmed today seem extremely remote
and furthermore feel like in your shoes i might have been excited at the prospect of this sketchy new replacement doing something as wild as sheeping against the mason claims
you and i are definitely different people
but who caresss

I'll be real the RN vote was an emotional vote because he's pissing me tf off lmao.

He probably is town, as I've been town reading him up until this point.

[Thomith]

Yes me and thomith are masons

but not exactly masons

we are both Town Informed Neighbors, informed that the other one is town and knows they're town

does your comment imply you've figured us out earlier than that nurse?

Gypyx has literally been calling us mason without a PT/masons but not exactly, and I've been calling us Mason adjacent since we claimed.

Well, clarify it to the letter and have both of you stick with it to avoid confusion.

I think it's clear what we mean.

[Thomith]

thomith seems to treat "antitown" and "scummy" like synonyms. sort of surprising from someone with a good number of games played

Do you think this is AI of me?

it's more of an important thing to keep in mind than sortable on its own.
posts that might make me go "huh" might now fit into a pre-established pattern,
cases i make might appeal to your point-of-view.
et cetera

i'm close to willing to bet the game that you're town based on the play i've seen so far (you and gypyx) and the strength of your claim.
mostly the latter but the former's important too.
i suspect i'll find that you two were a major force behind the ranger lim too

is kind of interesting too that you seem to see RN as a real threat;
the chances of you or gypyx being limmed today seem extremely remote
and furthermore feel like in your shoes i might have been excited at the prospect of this sketchy new replacement doing something as wild as sheeping against the mason claims
you and i are definitely different people
but who caresss

I'll be real the RN vote was an emotional vote because he's pissing me tf off lmao.

He probably is town, as I've been town reading him up until this point.

And if you're Scum, which you very well may be, it's extremely intentional.

I literally have antagonized Scum and trapped Scum as Town, and it's very satisfying.

I'm not scum, so while it may work at cornering scum, it does also annoy town

I know it's intentional, because it's working because I'm annoyed

I understand that it's a game though so I've taken a step back and it's all cool lmao.

[Thomith]

I'm not meaning to upset you either, and this is a game so I shouldn't be reacting emotionally, so I apologise as well.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Random Nurse

Could go Gera as well, both are refusing to unvote someone I know is town so..

That's adorable.

You say you know Gypyx is Town, but I don't know that. If you were both Scum masquerading as Town-Informed Neighbors of course you would try to protect each other. My gut is screaming that both of you are Scum, and once I sense blood in the water I DON'T let up.

I know that you don't know that, but from my POV I know you are voting in my eyes, someone who is 100% and refusing to unvote or consider another option, which is from my POV anti town.

Yeah but no.

You're basically saying if I don't go along with whatever you want me to do that makes me anti-Town. He'll the fuck no Bro. I don't know what the fuck your alignment is, and you could damn well be Scum with Gypyx, so I don't know what you two are and no way in Hell is it "anti-Town" for me to not exactly TRUST just your WORD. Also I don't HAVE to "consider another option" just because you WANT me to. As Town I play my OWN way, I play independently, and I decide what

I

want to do. If I want to latch onto YOUR leg like an overgrown lamprey ALL DAMN GAME I'll do that TOO. Don't TELL me how to play.

I genuinely am not trying to tell you how to play either btw, so I'm sorry if it did come across like that.

[Thomith]

I think the main thing is I do think you are town, and I'm getting frustrated because I'm not able to convince you that I am so we can work together.

That's on me to figure out how to do that though.

[Thomith]

RN...what are the relevant features of being a mason that make the role a mason?

No no no, don't pester me on what a Mason is—I'm talking about the prior claim and the later claim.

First they claimed one thing then claimed another, and then sheepishly chuckled and said "oh well it's the same thing we use them interchangeably" ha ha no.

I want the DEETS.

Give me the exact role claim. Now.

Town Informed Neighbour.

I was informed that Gypyx is town aligned, and that she has also been informed that I am town aligned.

[Thomith]

RN...what are the relevant features of being a mason that make the role a mason?

No no no, don't pester me on what a Mason is—I'm talking about the prior claim and the later claim.

First they claimed one thing then claimed another, and then sheepishly chuckled and said "oh well it's the same thing we use them interchangeably" ha ha no.

I want the DEETS.

Give me the exact role claim. Now.

Town Informed Neighbour.

I was informed that Gypyx is town aligned, and that she has also been informed that I am town aligned.

OK. Good job. So if there's a Role Cop they can check one of you tonight.

For Town clarification you're not Masons.

If there's a Role Cop they'll get the result of Informed Neighbour, which for the record should not 100% clear us either.

[Thomith]

RN...what are the relevant features of being a mason that make the role a mason?

No no no, don't pester me on what a Mason is—I'm talking about the prior claim and the later claim.

First they claimed one thing then claimed another, and then sheepishly chuckled and said "oh well it's the same thing we use them interchangeably" ha ha no.

I want the DEETS.

Give me the exact role claim. Now.

Town Informed Neighbour.

I was informed that Gypyx is town aligned, and that she has also been informed that I am town aligned.

OK. Good job. So if there's a Role Cop they can check one of you tonight.

For Town clarification you're not Masons.

If there's a Role Cop they'll get the result of Informed Neighbour, which for the record should not 100% clear us either.

...

...

...

...I don't like this.

Why not?

I'm clarifying that a Role Cop investigating us should not hard clear us.

[Thomith]

Although from a game design standpoint I love this because it's fucking with my paranoia.

Are you Informed of any other neighbors like Titus/Snow?

I'm not informed of Titus/Snows alignment if that's your question.

The only thing I'm informed of is that Gypyx is town, and she knows that I am town.

[Thomith]

Tell me again why you two were the last two to vote off Ranger?

Gypyx asked in the hood chat if I would vote Ranger so she could hammer.

Gypyx would need to advise why exactly she decided to pivot back to Ranger from Snow.

[Thomith]

Tell me again why you two were the last two to vote off Ranger?

Gypyx asked in the hood chat if I would vote Ranger so she could hammer.

Gypyx would need to advise why exactly she decided to pivot back to Ranger from Snow.

Yeah, why do you think she wanted it that way?

I actually don't know what you're trying to ask me here.

I don't think Gypyx specifically wanted us to be the last 2 on the wagon, she just saw the wagon was E-2, wanted to execute Ranger so co-ordinated that with me.

[Thomith]

OK OK I just need you to stay in that pose for a lil' bit longer—gonna frame this shit if it turns out you WERE Scum and I reeled you in like a big fucking catfish.

And when we flop town?

[Thomith]

Flip*

[Thomith]

Flip*

I'll congratulate the game mod and be up your ass in the next game.

Dope.

Push to flip me instead then, because I think Gypyx has a better handle on the game than I do.

[Thomith]

Flip*

I'll congratulate the game mod and be up your ass in the next game.

Dope.

Push to flip me instead then, because I think Gypyx has a better handle on the game than I do.

[Thomith]

Was Dave/Ranger slot distancing/fake-fighting with any players in early game?

FWIW Ranger randomly moving me and Gypyx from scum reads to top town reads was really weird to me.

I don't know what that means yet but wanted to throw that out. Maybe Ranger wanted to frame one/both of us because of a weird 180?

[Thomith]

Penguin has the same philosophy that I have. Early large wagons are quite valuable to town. I think Oblivion's take on Penguin meta is correct. It would be a very easy thing to fake as scum, so the town conclusion is a but suspect.
I can't town bin Oblivion on that because its approach was very similar in the last game and it flipped scum. It's only a sample size of 1 so not very strong.

Titus's vote isn't much more than a RVS, in fact it might be exactly that. I'd call that NAI.

Dave sus bc whiteknight.

What from me did you perceive as defending someone else?

Dave not to view his post as defending me

what post?

VOTE: Willow
is a worthy wagon.

Early game comments from Dave about other people that stood out to me on a brief skim

[Thomith]

woah! dave was ranger! i get to see what he's like as scum.

He be dead

Why are you still voting Gypyx?

[Thomith]

VOTE: Snow

FWIW Dave put Snow on E-1 on page 2

[Thomith]

Would it be too WIFOMY to believe scum likely don't do that to a partner that quickly?

[Thomith]

but why is it

scummy

? he doesn't have your pov.

Because when Gypyx flips town, I 100% die next, since I will be confirmed at that point.

Random Nurse is actively working to remove two people who are sure of each other being town from the game, which is benefits scum.

WHO CARES if you die as Town?

Town doesn't GAF about self-preservation, and Informed Town Neighbors is a big pile of nothing when it comes to Town power.

this just in Masons is a useless role

Town-Informed Neighbors.

But now you're clarifying that your role PM says "Mason," Gypyx?

Masons are a group of people who mutually know they're town and have a PT together

Me and Thomith are a group of people who mutually know they're town and have a PT together

the word isn't there but i'm calling it that

You have a private thread with each other?

The only PT we share is the Neighbourhood.

[Thomith]

Would it be too WIFOMY to believe scum likely don't do that to a partner that quickly?

This was my follow up to the E-1 thing.

I'm wondering if this may soft clear Snow?

[Thomith]

Bloop

[Thomith]

I am in favor of seeing pressure on both Kay and Naerys—they both fold under pressure as Scum.

I feel like we kind of already pressured Naerys Day 1 though (may have been Day 2 i forget), and I feel like she reacted frustrated/focused just on people on her wagon, which is how I remember town!Naerys being?

[Thomith]

actually yeah i'm with thomith; i think it's a reasonable guess that dave's snow vote discounts the pairing. because of dave's personality.

It's this, combined with Snow being like "execute me but get Thom/Gypyx after" that makes me lean town.
Combined I think provides a decent case for soft clearing Snow.

[Thomith]

i am like unsubscribing from this thread for a day. can you believe ive been getting an email everytime someone posted here. why would i do that to myself

You have successfully been unsubscribed from the "Random Nurse fights Gypyx" newsletter

Also the Thomith randomly has an emotional outburst at Random Nurse and immediately feeling bad about it newsletter

[Thomith]

I want to believe Thomith/Gypyx are Town but if they keep surviving that's going to test my faith.

That is 100% fair.

[Thomith]

Anyone have a read on Scum Psyche?

I'm going to reread the slot.

I feel like I had the slot as a scumread due to a POE that now seems potentially flawed since I think there is very easily a world where Snow is town, which said POE kind of relied on him being scum. I want to reread it and see if I outright get any scum pings.

[Thomith]

If I get hoodwinked by fucking Scum Thomith and Gypyx after my initial suspicions I will laugh so hard.

It would be a fucking wild bluff lmfao, but unfortunately not one I think I'd have the guts to pull off.

[Thomith]

Maybe there's only 2 left...

3 left in a 15 with barely any Town power doesn't seem balanced...

I'm still semi tunelled on the belief that I think there's a traitor - I think a traitors existence could be there to make mine and Gypyx's interactions potentially seem more scummy due to us blatantly buddying?

[Thomith]

I want to vote geraintm, but I don't want to start a new wagon..

[Thomith]

01) How likely is it that a Scum Dave would put Scum Snow to L-1?

That's what I was wondering before, and generally I don't see scum doing that on page 2, sure they might get town points for it, but i feel like the risk outweighs potential reward, if the quickhammer actually happens, especially as it has a decent amount of times lately to my knowledge.
I think Gypyx mentioned this happened in a recent Micro though, so who knows.
Psyche also seemed to believe scum!dave wouldn't do that due to his usual playstyle I think?

[Thomith]

My paranoia DOES NOT like Gypyx and Thomith, both whom I have trust issues with atm, agreeing with me on someone else being suss.

And since when have you two disagreed on something this game yet? This ain't Star Trek and you aren't the Borg.

I scumread Gera, Gypyx townreads Gera.

[Thomith]

VOTE: Gera

[Thomith]

so yeah, consolidate by joining me

I looked back briefly over the VC to see what its stances are, and (feel free to double check if in case I'm wrong, I may be), but Oblivion has voted once the entire game it looks like, for Ranger.
I'm okay to go here for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oblivion

[Thomith]

A number of points:
1. We have a pair of scums or a pair of towns Thomith-Gypyx.
2. They seem to stop scumreading people once the latter stop conflicting with them. Weird. But this can be their desire to protect each other.
3. So, what to do? One approach is to "test" and lim one of them. May be not worth it.
4. The other is that lim one of Thomith-Gypyx later after we milim towns (query is how many tries we give them). If so, another query is how many power we give them in directing a lime (since they will be responsible for a mislim/s).
5. In the scenario where Thomith-Gypyx are town, I would probably focus on Naerys.

If you decide to lim one of us to test it (which I do think is not an unfair decision), I do want it noted the other probably immediately dies, so at least give us time to consolidate our reads at that point so y'all have something to work with from our deaths.

[Thomith]

I'm around to consolidate.
I do think Naerys is wrong though.
Oblivion won't happen so may as well UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

ok thomith why oblivion? even gypyx seems wishy washy about it. do you think i'm mistaken to say that oblivion is a major reason ranger flipped in the first place?

Oblivion won't happen today because I need time, which we don't have today to reread and come to a decision there.
I'll post something in the hood PT overnight in case I do die tonight, so thay can be relayed.

Someone give me the tl;dr of the Titus read?

[Thomith]

If Titus flips scum I probably end up trusting Snow completely.

[Thomith]

If there is an investigative that can outright clear me/gypyx I don't think that is a waste at all. Hell I'm tempted to say even vigging one of us might be worth it.

If the investigative is, like the example RN gave earlier, say a Role Cop, then all they would get is "Informed Neighbour", which doesn't outright clear is, and so that is where I'm not sure it's worth it.

[Thomith]

Ugh this doesn't feel like scum!Naerys at all, but maybe this close to deadline a town!Naerys flip gives us enoughbinformation that helps us sort.

[Thomith]

1.01

Votecount 1.01

Snow2697 (E-2): Gypyx, Thomith, Titus, geraintm, Little Will o' Wisp, PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys

Not Voting (8): Random Nurse, Oblivion, Hu Tao, Snow2697, NotAScum, KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo, davesaz

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-25 12:26:37).

1.02

Votecount 1.02

Snow2697 (5): Gypyx, Titus, geraintm, Little Will o' Wisp, PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys
Hu Tao (1): davesaz

Not Voting (8): Random Nurse, Oblivion, Hu Tao, Snow2697, NotAScum, KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo, Thomith

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-25 12:26:37).

1.03

Votecount 1.03

Snow2697 (4): Titus, geraintm, Little Will o' Wisp, PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys
Hu Tao (1): davesaz
Little Will o' Wisp (1): Gypyx
KayJayQueue (1): Thomith

Not Voting (7): Random Nurse, Oblivion, Hu Tao, Snow2697, NotAScum, KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-25 12:26:37).

[Thomith]

Dave put Snow at E-1 between 1.01 and 1.02

[Thomith]

Greetings,

It has a major distaste for the idea that this thread was comfortable with putting a player at one vote to elimination prior to that player having ever posted. It is especially concerned with this from Dave, given that Dave was present for a quick hammer in quite literally a game that ended just yesterday. It feels like Dave can and should be more sensitive to that, and so must have truly wished to kill a player before a single post.

Dave, for what purpose?

for instance (was reading obv iso and this flashed up to me) this is a really weird post to open with considering the flips we've had now

Do we think it would immediately throw a scumbuddy under the bus like this? Just to look like it was trying to solve?

[Thomith]

I did some thinking and I support a mass claim.

Oblivion doesn't seem like the best starting point to me, but it probably does not change much.

Who would you prefer start?

[Thomith]

They obviously joking about traitor claim lol.

I never claimed traitor in hood.

That's literally all you're doing...?

[Thomith]

we also have half the players who are already claimed now

let's do the other half

And that's still full of shit.

We should have mass-claimed yesterday. We'd have more claims and Scum would be locked into their claims.

This is me genuinely asking, as I'm still relearning the game again - last time in a game we massclaimed the day before ELo (which would potentially be today i think?).
Is this not the optimal time to mass claim? Why would it have been more beneficial yesterday than today? Are scum not also locked into their claims if we claim today?

[Thomith]

(1) Can you please chill out a bit Nurse, you're making it hard for me to keep interacting with you in a pleasant manner

(2) i still think massclaiming yesterday wasn't the right move but also what's done is done, unless you think it's AI for me (3) i'd prefer to stop discussing it

(1) You think that's not the point?

(2) You're right it is done, and now you have to deal with the consequences. We should have mass-claimed sooner. You acted as if mass-claiming yesterday was the same as jumping into radioactive waste, yet now with two more people gone now you're suddenly "OK" with it.

(3) That's not how this game works. I don't think you appreciate how restrained I've been thus far. And look at you two still alive. Just fascinating.

I mean with how much you kept saying that if we stayed alive, we would become suspicious, and the fact our main power is knowing each other are town, if there is still suspicion on us, we don't post that much of a threat to scum. I'm really not surprised we are still alive. If you are also town, it keeps you focused on us, rather than finding actual scum.

[Thomith]

we also have half the players who are already claimed now

let's do the other half

And that's still full of shit.

We should have mass-claimed yesterday. We'd have more claims and Scum would be locked into their claims.

This is me genuinely asking, as I'm still relearning the game again - last time in a game we massclaimed the day before ELo (which would potentially be today i think?).
Is this not the optimal time to mass claim? Why would it have been more beneficial yesterday than today? Are scum not also locked into their claims if we claim today?

Why were you so against it yesterday?

It would have been better to massclaim earlier because we'd have more information, and Scum would have less wiggle room to squirm away.

I wasn't against it yesterday. I wasn't arguing we shouldn't do it, I genuinely just didn't/don't know if it was beneficial or not.

[Thomith]

Elaborate on what you're thinking?

Whether they could actually think they're doing anything useful.

I'm trying to think of why they'd do this.

1a)town, knows about the guidelines. waste of time.
1b)town, doesn't know about the guidelines. maybe useful.
2a)scum, knows about the guidelines. full on refuge in audacity.
2b)scum, doesn't know about the guidelines. either 2a or pretending to be 1b.

I mean, there's some basis behind it, i've mentioned traitorspec in the hood before, and in normals, mafia know there's a traitor but not who it is

but also it's very troll and enchant doing it for a prolonged period of time just means scum imo

Or was testing us to see if we were scum looking for a traitor, to catch us out if we did reveal, believing Enchant was actually a traitor.

[Thomith]

we also have half the players who are already claimed now

let's do the other half

And that's still full of shit.

We should have mass-claimed yesterday. We'd have more claims and Scum would be locked into their claims.

This is me genuinely asking, as I'm still relearning the game again - last time in a game we massclaimed the day before ELo (which would potentially be today i think?).
Is this not the optimal time to mass claim? Why would it have been more beneficial yesterday than today? Are scum not also locked into their claims if we claim today?

Why were you so against it yesterday?

It would have been better to massclaim earlier because we'd have more information, and Scum would have less wiggle room to squirm away.

I'm aware I'm potentially being dense, (tbh maybe this should be a discussion for post-game?) but why does massclaiming earlier = we have more information? wouldn't mass claiming after investigatives have had more nights give us more information?

[Thomith]

it's how popcorn works yeah

I just meant I don’t know if there’s a specific person that would be best to have claim after me.

I’m just a VT.

So is asking Enchant to claim pointless then? I should pick someone else?

Not pointless, it just would have been beneficial if Enchant claimed in the hood, because it locks them into a claim, but if they are town, scum wouldn't have their claim available to help them come up with a potential fake claim.

[Thomith]

V/LA between 26th-29th April Inclusive

Noted.

- Alianna

[Thomith]

popping in quickly.
will look at the votes tomorrow.

no objetion to the mass claim. i was up for it when it was first mooted.

Ping.
Your turn to claim.

[Thomith]

Ahh, ok.

Then RN? No sense in the masons who both claimed Mason claiming again.

Town Informed Neighbours* before RN asks us to clarify if we are masons again or not.

[Thomith]

The optimal person you want to choose is scum because it locks them into their claim. That way they can't go "aha! I counterclaim that exact same role"

Well I’m not picking the players that I believe I already know their role. That gives me 5 options. Enchant(well, Titus-slot) definitely worries me most out of those.

Why does Enchant/Titus worry you the most?

[Thomith]

The optimal person you want to choose is scum because it locks them into their claim. That way they can't go "aha! I counterclaim that exact same role"

Well I’m not picking the players that I believe I already know their role. That gives me 5 options. Enchant(well, Titus-slot) definitely worries me most out of those.

Why does Enchant/Titus worry you the most?

I already wasn’t too hot on that slot then when Enchant repped in, you guys said he claimed in the hood but not sure if it was joking. So without being in there and knowing exactly what was said, just getting that info secondhand, I was worried and remain unsure about that slot.

Enchant claimed Traitor Neighbour in the hood, and even when Gypyx asked them to claim seriously, they doubled down about it, saying they knew we were both scum, making comments about a 4 scum hood being OP ect.

I think it was probably Enchant attempting to bait us into outting ourselves if we were scum, believing they were the actual traitor, since I believe both me and Gypyx said in the hood at least once we thought there might be a traitor there.

[Thomith]

Random Nurse - VT
Gypyx - Best Friend Neighbor
Oblivion - VT
geraintm - VT
KayJayQueue - VT
Enchant - Neighbor
Psyche - VT
Thomith - Best Friend Neighbor
Lycanfire - VT

Can someone explain what the most likely breakdown is in terms of “balance” for this (claimed) game? What are we looking for? 2 or 3 more scum? Or whatever, traitor.

Do the not-masons have a read on what exactly Enchant could be? Does anyone else?

Are we done looking at the hood?

Does anyone actually believe Thom/Gypyx are scum running a long con? (I don’t)

Who is everyone’s most “town” read? Not including the besties, I’d rather get opinions on anyone else.

I feel like Enchant is a Vanilla Neighbour who tried a gambit to bait me/gypyx into revealing as scum by pretending they were a traitor.

[Thomith]

Snow liked Titus

Can't see geraint's opinion on Titus. Doesn't have one it seems.

Think the homies, Kay, and definitely random nurse didn't like her. Neither did Naerys. Oblivion thought there was a bus on Ranger, but no read on Titus.

I think our main read differences actually was that I townread Titus but scumread Gera, but Gypyx felt the opposite?

[Thomith]

Snow liked Titus

Can't see geraint's opinion on Titus. Doesn't have one it seems.

Think the homies, Kay, and definitely random nurse didn't like her. Neither did Naerys. Oblivion thought there was a bus on Ranger, but no read on Titus.

I think our main read differences actually was that I townread Titus but scumread Gera, but Gypyx felt the opposite?

Did you townread her more from the hood or game thread, or combo of both?

It feels so hard to have an accurate read without all the info. I don’t think I like this neighborhood mechanic lol (I’d probably love it if I was in it though)

Mainly the game thread.
Titus brought up using the Neighbourhood as a last will of sorts at the end of Night 1 which I thought was a good idea and made me like her, but in hindsight she didn't actually end up doing it herself (only I ended up doing so), but that could be an indication or being busy rather than AI.

[Thomith]

I low key think Enchant trying to trick me/gypyx into scumslipping in the hood might just make them town is my only concern about this wagon?

[Thomith]

Enchant, are you actually a Traitor?

If Enchant flips Traitor then the other two must be flipped.

Why does Enchant being traitor = me/Gypyx being scum?

[Thomith]

well, uh, next day *probably* isn't ELo given that we've established the setup should be 12:3

What are your thoughts on it possibly being 11:4 if one of them is a Traitor?

My logic this game has been a scum and a traitor being in the hood was possible due to mine/gypyx's role, so them buddying/signalling to each other would make our own buddying look more suspicious.

[Thomith]

well, uh, next day *probably* isn't ELo given that we've established the setup should be 12:3

What are your thoughts on it possibly being 11:4 if one of them is a Traitor?

Enchant would be that traitor imo

Who was the first person to mention traitor in the hood btw? I forgot if you said earlier in the thread. Was it you/Thom or someone else?

I was the first to bring up the idea of traitors.

I mentioned that the last 15p with a hood had a scum member and a traitor member.

[Thomith]

well, uh, next day *probably* isn't ELo given that we've established the setup should be 12:3

What are your thoughts on it possibly being 11:4 if one of them is a Traitor?

Enchant would be that traitor imo

Who was the first person to mention traitor in the hood btw? I forgot if you said earlier in the thread. Was it you/Thom or someone else?

I was the first to bring up the idea of traitors.

I mentioned that the last 15p with a hood had a scum member and a traitor member.

Does that explain why we are all just vanilla outside of the hood? Did that game have PRs only in the hood? Should we assume Titus is something (not necessarily traitor) or is that dumb to think everyone in the hood has to be something. I would think it’s almost more of a liability to town to have all power in a small pool of players that might get limmed based on Poe/“has to be one of them right?”

This was the setup that game:

Mafia Goon
Mafia 2-Shot Jailkeeper
Mafia Neighbor
Mafia Informed Traitor Neighbor Rolecop (Informed of 1-Shot BP)

Town 1-shot BP Neighbor
Town N1 N2 N3 Gunsmith Neighbor
Town Macho Even-Night Cop
Town Doctor
Town Complex Vigilante
Town Simple Backup Doctor
5 VTs

[Thomith]

I still believe

this is where i wrap gera's name in a vote tag

How we feeling about Enchant's wagon and about our claimed masons not dying btw?

It recognizes that their lack of deaths can be a gut check against us to see if we will kill one of them and then they kill the other tonight but it doesn't think they are getting shot tonight either with these kills. Hu Tao? Snow? Why were these kills made?

If we don't kill them today we have to just say " we believe 100% these are real and are willing to lose to this gambit".

Because it feels that 3 scum neighbours a town neighbour and a town vengeful neighbour plus 10 VTs feels... Like something someone might consider "balanced" frankly.

So what are your thoughts?

I crumbed immediately, and me and Gypyx buddies almost immediately. It would have been completely crazy to have tied ourselves together so blatantly if we were scum together in a hood, and then pushed town to begin sorting within said hood on Day 2.
Even if we didn't claim this, we were so blatantly tied together by play if we were scum and one of us got executed, the other immediately gets executed afterwards.

[Thomith]

We were either left alive because:
a) members of the town were doubting me/Gypyx, had outright said if we kept living then they would push for our execution, and scum kept us alive in hopes that this will actually happen.
b) those people doubting the claim are scum, and are keeping us alive to push a narrative and try and force a mislim at ELo if we get there.

[Thomith]

We were either left alive because:
a) members of the town were doubting me/Gypyx, had outright said if we kept living then they would push for our execution, and scum kept us alive in hopes that this will actually happen.
b) those people doubting the claim are scum, and are keeping us alive to push a narrative and try and force a mislim at ELo if we get there.

Right except the flaw in your logic is that it has consistently refused to deal with you at ELO. It's before ELO or its never. It will not have a whole last chance day dedicated to deciding if we believe you or not.

We either resolve you both before then or we just agree to lose to it.

To be fair, to my knowledge, you haven't been that vocal in doubting our claim until today, so I was more talking about Random Nurse.

[Thomith]

set up spec isn't my bag at all. im still trying to work out if we are playing vs 3 or 4 and so if the showdown with gypyx & thom needs to happen sooner rather than later. i think they need to be tested at some point - i don't especially want to get into the end game vs them.

my gut says they are town, i've been assuming they are town, but i don't think we lose too much in killing one at some point.

they have to recognise that the rest of us have to doubt them and cannot give them a free pass the rest of the game.

I think they are not killed because they are threat for town, not mafia.

im not sure what this means - threat to town? you think they are straight up scum??

If you kill one of us, you are killing both of us.
it's not a "test it and let the other live", it's if you kill one of us, the other immediately gets killed at night

[Thomith]

set up spec isn't my bag at all. im still trying to work out if we are playing vs 3 or 4 and so if the showdown with gypyx & thom needs to happen sooner rather than later. i think they need to be tested at some point - i don't especially want to get into the end game vs them.

my gut says they are town, i've been assuming they are town, but i don't think we lose too much in killing one at some point.

they have to recognise that the rest of us have to doubt them and cannot give them a free pass the rest of the game.

I think they are not killed because they are threat for town, not mafia.

im not sure what this means - threat to town? you think they are straight up scum??

If you kill one of us, you are killing both of us.
it's not a "test it and let the other live", it's if you kill one of us, the other immediately gets killed at night

You're a neighbour. If we kill one of you the other one has a whole night to put all their final thoughts into a place where the last neighbour can post them for you.

This is assuming that Enchant is town.

[Thomith]

can you remind of the exact-ish information conveyed by your role pm?

I am informed that Gypyx is town aligned, and has been informed that I am also town aligned.

[Thomith]

think gera comes out of this exchange looking the scummiest again...

Low key thought the same.

Random Nurse I think is potentially town due to how he is voting.
Oblivion seems to be suspicious of us in a way that it feels like it is genuinely trying to solve us.
Gera kind of hopped on once the pressure was on us (I don't remember if gera has expressed doubt of the claim before today)

[Thomith]

Hello, plan to read through things properly after work this evening.

Can't shake the feeling Enchant may be town that tried to bait me/gypyx in the hood, so not 100% sure i want to go there today .