Mini 201 - Game Over!

[vikingfan]

randomvote HezLucky

[vikingfan]

I could prolly vote viking cuz he broke my heart or whatever but that's just shallow and something I don't do.

Bye.

?? How did I break your heart?

In any case, as everyone else has already said, it looks like we have an SK and probably either a doc or roleblocker stopped the mafia's kill- I was going to say that maybe they missed their choice but halo said that all choices came in, so that rules that out.

[vikingfan]

Ah, first game back in a while and I die on the first night , people do remember me afterall.

Go scum

Tigris brings up a good point- why would she have been selected by the SK for death(I'll assume the SK until proven otherwise). What differentiated her? Apparently because she was remembered. Yet I looked her up and she hasn't played for a long time- I think only players like DP and Phoebus were around when she was. Food for thought.

Though this may be what the SK wants us to believe too...

[vikingfan]

So which one would you have liked me to throw my vote on? Phoebus? You? (I know both of you have been around for a long time) And I believe Someone and Yanqush have also been around for awhile too like Tigris. (feel free to correct me)

Still since you mention it,

unvote Hezlucky

randomvote Phoebus

out of that list of 4.

[vikingfan]

As Dragon Phoenix pointed out, citing the opinions of proven scum is in itself suspicious. Moreover, a review of Tigris's record shows that she has played games throughout the past year (in February, January, November, and October) in addition to posting in the forum. I don't think that justifies suspecting DP and Phoebus. In addition, were VF to follow that reasoning out, he would have also named Yanqush (and maybe more people) as a possible suspect. In addition, VF ends with

Though this may be what the SK wants us to believe too...

, which adds nothing productive to the discussion and only beclouds the issue. I can't help but wonder at his motives.

Hence:

Vote: Vikingfan

for misrepresenting Tigris's record, crap logic, and generally trying to confuse everything.

I believe I also listed Yanqush (after your post, though I hadn't read your post). At the time I was purely reacting to DP and didn't read yours through.

All I was trying to do was to bring up a possible point of discussion on at the time our only death. Should we just regard the killing of Tigris as being totally random? Maybe it was, but we have to start somewhere, and that's what I was trying to do. Maybe I erred by quoting Tigris, but that's what I was trying to do. I was not trying to utilize crap logic, especially since I never once pointed suspicion at a specific individual.

I was not trying to misrepresent Tigris's record, nor was I trying to confuse everything (and how could I confuse everything when I didn't refer to the possibility of an SK, which was also a relevant topic).

[vikingfan]

What aspect? that Tigris was a thorn or killed with a purpose?

The aspect that Tigris can be a thorn and was therefore, killed.

I do not claim to have arrived at any conclusion as a result of Tigris' death.
I just said that it's probable and possible that Tigris may have been (may, not has been) killed with good reason.

There, Phoebus put what I was trying to say better than I did (though I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's probable, just possible).

[vikingfan]

No, you failed to note that I said it was a RANDOM pick out of those 4- I didn't feel that Phoebus was necessarily suspicious in any way. I made it a vote because at this stage of the game, very little is conclusive, but I voted on what I had- though I can still change it at any time, just like anyone else.

Personally, I made the whole point originally because we only had one death and I wanted to try to think about what little info we had. Now that Nightfall's also dead, the point is kind of lost since that original point can just as easily be applied to Nightfall, and that really doesn't get us anywhere.

So I'll

unvote Phoebus

due to that last paragraph.

[vikingfan]

It seems like everything you just said was what I said in my post- it's pretty much pointless now and I probably shouldn't have brought it up originally. But I was NOT trying to confuse anybody in any way- just bringing up a topic for discussion.

We both agree that the Tigris point is dead and buried and probably should be, at least until the next mafia day when we might have more info on the SK's killing pattern. You believe that I'm trying to confuse things, and I really don't know how I can change your mind here, other than to urge you and others to look straightforwardly at my posts- I can say that I have not been seeking to confuse anyone at all in this matter.

Unless anyone brings anything up on this, I think I'll leave it at that.

[vikingfan]

Vote: vikingfan

as I said before, until I am convinced otherwise.

So what can I do to convince you I'm not scummy?

[vikingfan]

Well, double post but yeah.

i'm fine with my vote unless someone does something spectacular or stupid or spectacularly stupid.

I might just finish viking off if need be but i'm not sure.

Whoa, whoa, you would finish me off without A)asking for a claim,(especially on Day 1), B) listening to the claim and evaluating it? Especially on Day 1. This smells bad to me.

unvote

vote Phoebus

Oh, and vote count please.

[vikingfan]

I'll wait for the official votecount first, if people are fine with that.

[vikingfan]

Unvote Vikingfan
Vote Enteryournamehere

Nothing personal, just my usual aversion against the bandwagon-claim-bandwagon and so on strategy. I'm convinced this strategy is bad for the town.

So do you think I should claim? I'm OK with it, but I'd rather not put my role out there until I have to. I too, don't like the strategy, but I really don't see a better way to go on day 1.

[vikingfan]

BTW, HezLucky has 3 votes, not 2, and is the vote leader so far. Given that, I'll hold off as I'm not even close to being lynched, much less the vote leader.

Though if enough people say yes to a roleclaim...

[vikingfan]

Ah, my mistake, it was ENYH that was the vote leader. My mistake. In that case, just replace HezLucky with ENYH in my previous post.

[vikingfan]

You have been #2 in my scummy meter, but I still fear it's out of playstyle.

I want a claim anyway.

It's out of playstyle- I usually tend to stand out in most games I play in, for good or bad.

I find it strange that some people like DP don't like the bandwagon and claim strategy. However, ENYH has more votes than I do and nobody's asking him for a claim (in fact he's at 4 now, 2 away from a lynch). Something's strange here.

In any case, I am the neighborhood bully who uses his brawn for good. Iin mafia terms, I'm a protown roleblocker. I can beat one person up at night and block them (if they have an ability). If I understand halo correctly, if they do not have a night ability (or if they chose not to use it), they get a post restriction. I beat up Someone last night, but since both kills went through, it's clear he's not the SK (though he could still be part of the mafia, just not the member who killed nightfall).

I used my ability night one because I was hoping to block a potential mafia or SK (if there was one). Now that we know they're both out there, I still think I'm best off using my ability at night, though others are free to discuss what they think I should do at night(assuming I survive this lynch).

[vikingfan]

Jumping too much from vote to vote, as I understand it.

DP, what strategy do you recommend? Right now, I'm finding ENYH most scummy in terms of actual gameplay (for the same reason just listed above), yet I'm not sure what the best play is in terms of overall gameplay. Any thoughts, especially since ENYH is sitting two away from a lynch?

[vikingfan]

The thing to do to get yourself out of a mess is explain why you did what you did to get the votes piled on you first in the first place, well, thats what I think anyway.....[/quote]

That's what I was trying to do- I was repeatedly asking how I could prove that I was innocent, and the common thread seemed to be claim.

DP, I would agree with you if I had been townie, but I considered my role too powerful to just throw it away so easily (and I think most here will agree). Regardless, I think we should only hear one more claim today (if that), lynch someone, and hope we've nailed either a mafia, SK, or townie. We're one up on the mafia already(thanks to a generous SK). Let's not throw away the advantage that we've gained, IMO.

[vikingfan]

Oh, sorry about missing the votes, Phoebus. I was thinking that when LML unvoted me and voted ENYH, that was the fourth. My bad.

[vikingfan]

Maybe because he hadn't gone

over

two days - or maybe Halo just hadn't gotten on in time to prod him before he posted.

unvote phoebus

and

vote ENYH

. At this point, I find ENYH just slightly higher on the scumdar for reasons mentioned already by others.

[vikingfan]

Hmm, looks like we've got two bandwagons here in Hez and ENYH. I think in order to really get anywhere, we've got to cut it down to one (and save the other as the probable first order of business for tomorrow) so we can decide what to do with that player- demand claim, lynch, let player go for now, or whatever.

[vikingfan]

Couple things, Hez. For one, I don't think you can argue that ENYH is necessarily innocent just because he hasn't been lynched yet. Anybody just suddently voting and killing ENYH will be on the chopping block, whether town or scum- it just isn't done. What we're doing right now is that we have 2 bandwagons, and we have to pick one.

Second, ENYH can make exactly the same argument you're making-investigator will check me and mafia will kill me at night to nullify the inspection.

I'm going to wait for more info before I change anything, if I do.

[vikingfan]

I dunno- it seems to me at this point that both of you can make pretty similar arguments, and we really can't judge truth unless A) we get a claim(and not necessarily even then), or B) killed.

[vikingfan]

Methinks halo needs to follow up on his 'must post every two days' rule if we're going to get anywhere.

[vikingfan]

Maybe I missed something but why the dubious reactions by both DP and Phoebus? Am I missing something?

[vikingfan]

Ah, I see.

Yep, that's worthy of a vote, IMO.

unvote

vote Kadath

[vikingfan]

Two things: A) I'm happy with my vote.
and B)we need some prods according to the 'must post every two days' rule.

[vikingfan]

kadath has refused to give a claim despite being asked, which leads me to believe either A)he's lying scum, or B) he's an unimportant town role. Only an idiot would refuse to claim if he's really a cop or doc.

[vikingfan]

I think prodding LML might be in order too- he's posting in other games but not this one, at least recently.

[vikingfan]

As long as we're at it, any bright ideas on who I should roleblock? Or should I keep it to myself? Or should I even roleblock tonight at all?

As of now, I'm thinking roleblock and hope I get either a mafia or SK.

[vikingfan]

I'm not sure-we lost 2 neighborhood watches already plus our cop. Ouch!

I submitted a choice last night for roleblocking, but I just PMed halo to see whether he forgot to post it- if he didn't, that means something interesting. I'll wait to see what halo says before I reveal who I blocked-that may help us. I will say this-I didn't block anyone who died.

In any case, however, we have two pieces of good news. First, we still have at least two bad groups, so we can hope for cross-killing as happened night 1. Second, we've already gotten two bad guys-Tigris night 1 and a traitor(that sounds bad, though I'm not sure what bad group that would belong to).

On the other hand, we've only nailed one mafia for sure, which makes me think at least half of the people left are bad.

[vikingfan]

As said before, I did submit a choice, but Halo didn't post it (but he did post it when I beat up someone). I'm currently awaiting to see whether he forgot (as he did the first day when he said that he forgot to post the results of Nightfall and Someone).

I don't think we have 3 killing groups. More likely, our vig made a kill. If I had to guess, probably ENYH, but I could be wrong.

As for balancing, we know for certain we had a cop. According to the .wiki, the neighborhood watch is this:

The Watch consists of two colleagues who can choose to patrol as a team or as singles. They choose a name, whose house they watch. They cannot prevent a murder, but can catch the killer (50% for a single Watchman, 100% for the team).

So I think we're pretty much already shot as far as investigative roles are concerned-but we likely still have a doc who shouldn't reveal himself at this time. Whta I'm wondering about here is balance-is it likely we still have powerful roles besides myself and the doc? After all, let's see, it's probably a vig, doc, roleblocker, a cop, and two nightwatches. We have to use what we can now, but I don't think it's lynch or lose yet. Nevertheless, we have to lynch the best way possible.

[vikingfan]

Hez is right, BTW. I did not roleblock him.

[vikingfan]

Correct, Blackberry. But here's the thing-according to halo in the post above, there is no announcement of anyone being beaten up (as happened with Someone). And no one else has ever stepped up and admitted that they beat up Someone, so I think I'm in the clear there. If my roleblocking didn't work (for whatever reason), then that means something else again-the person I blocked may NOT be the doc. For example, the SK may be unblockable, which would make sense since the SK needs an advantage since he's playing by himself.

For now, I have to assume that my blocking action will show up in the OP if it worked-that's why halo's report is so essential.

[vikingfan]

Agreed with Phoebus-I've never heard of an SK who is also a roleblocker. Mafia roleblockers are more common.

Now, for some analysis, intended to create possibilities, even in the worst case scenario. Let's consider some stuff here-I successfully blocked both Someone and Yanqush on consecutive nights. This means NEITHER can be the SK, which is nice. As said above, SKs who are also roleblockers-I've never heard of those. Which means that our SK is almost certainly found within the group of Phoebus, Hez, and Blackberry. Not bad, just taking that into account.

Now, let's see how being mafia works out for those players. Someone can still be mafia, especially if Tigris killed Nightfall the first night (though we don't know that for sure), which would allow him to be roleblocked without compromising him. The same is not necessarily true for Yanqush. If Yanqush is the ONLY member of his mafia left, he would have had to make a kill last night, which he did. But this is impossible since he was roleblocked. If there are two members of the mafia, then Yanqush could be mafia, but this would require the other member of the mafia to have committed the kill. In any case, the odds of this happening are high enough that I'm crossing Yanqush off my lynch list for today.

Second, though today is not lynch or lose, there's still a possibility that this might be the last day. After we lynch whoever we lynch, there will be 5 people left. Now, let's assume worst-case scenario and assume that we don't lynch the SK or we lynch only one member of a mafia when a second exists(or we don't lynch a mafia at all), and a vig still remains (all of which are possible). Then we probably have 3 kills again if they choose targets different from me or the doc and then there are only 2 people. Regardless of alignment, at that time, the game is over. There's also the possibility that the mafia and SK would die through cross-killing tonight as well, giving the game to the town. However, if both me and the doc survive today's lynch, then we can both roleblock and heal tonight. All that would be needed is for one to be roleblocked-healed and we would have another day tomorrow. Or if we lynched mafia/SK, the game might be over quicker. The point of this is to show that we have to make our decision very carefully. I personally think at this time we're better leaving me and the doc alive so the town has a better chance to win, rather than leaving things up to chance with night.

If I screwed up anywhere in my analysis of the last two paragraphs, let me know.

Now for some response to quotes.

Viking, if you blocked someone, I think it would be advisible not to admit who you blocked, they

are

the doctor.

I'm afraid I don't see how this is so. We've got 6 people. I blocked Yanqush. Now, Yanqush CANNOT be one of the 3 killing people. But that still means that he can be either the doc or the extra role (which would require Hez to be either scum or somebody trying to disguise his doctor role, both of which are possible). But I'm not seeing how this requires that Yanqush MUST be the doctor.

The following roles seem to be what we have:

Mafia
Serial Killer
Vigilante
Doctor
Vikingfan's role (assuming he's innocent)
My role

So if someone claims a role that's not one of the ones listed above, we automatically know either they or vikingfan is lying.

Not necessarily- we have no reason yet to trust you, unless your role is verifiable by others. We know if someone claims another role, you could be lying as well. Not attacking you, but I'm not ready yet to take anything at face value.

FOS Blackberry

. I don't like the way he's assuming he knows who's guilty and who's innocent. That would make sense if he were a cop with investigations, but I think we lost all our investigation roles already.

I'd just like to add one thing to vikingfan:

Your role is cleared.

You are not.

(Translation: I believe your role claim, but not necessarily your alignment. I can't trust that you are pro-town)

That's fine- none of us have to believe each other at this point. What I'm trying to do is establish well-grounded knowledge so we can create assumptions as I did above.

Sorry for such a long post but I had a lot of thoughts I wanted to put out there. Feedback?

[vikingfan]

Correct, blackberry, though you're not carrying your logic far enough. I looked in other games and the mafia roleblocker (which is what you guys, if I'm mafia, think I am) has the choice EITHER to block or to kill. I've blocked both nights, which means, even if I'm mafia, (which I'm not) I have a partner. Yanqush is already cleared for being an SK and if he's mafia, he has to have a partner too (due to being roleblocked last night). This doesn't mean you can disregard either me or Yanqush altogether (that wouldn't be good gameplay). What it does mean is that out of Hez, Phoebus, Blackberry, and Someone, at least 2 out of 4 are scum, which is 50%. We know Someone's not SK, so we know the SK belongs to someon out of the first three.

Now, this is very useful. Right now, we've got an empty role (which Hez has already staked out for himself). But we've got two bad guys in that group of 4, which means we're going to have to have a counterclaim, which will be extremely helpful at this stage of the game.

For that reason, I'm not ready to second your recommendation, Blackberry-there's a 50% chance you're scum, so I'm going to want to hear from everyone on this one.

[vikingfan]

Add yourself to that list in the summary and I agree with you 100%.

Due to Someone not being the SK, I'm more inclined to go with a lynch from Lucky, Phoebus, or Blackberry.

Actually, that FOS was intended for Blackberry, but I think it's getting obvious the likelihood of who's who.

It's not for sure that the vig is in that group of 3-someone could be a vig as well. I'm now inclined to ask for a role claim from those 3 (I'll see about someone eventually).

The reason why I can't buy your statements above about your having no night choice is because if you're mafia or SK, you would have seen your night choice die in the OP and thus know you weren't roleblocked.

This is going to be one interesting endgame!

[vikingfan]

When I beat them up-it seems to be part and parcel with the roleblocking.

In any case, I am the neighborhood bully who uses his brawn for good. Iin mafia terms, I'm a protown roleblocker. I can beat one person up at night and block them (if they have an ability). If I understand halo correctly, if they do not have a night ability (or if they chose not to use it), they get a post restriction. I beat up Someone last night, but since both kills went through, it's clear he's not the SK (though he could still be part of the mafia, just not the member who killed nightfall).

That's my ability. Halo wasn't clear on it (and when I asked, he refused to give me details), but I think all that's necessary is that they have an ability, not necessarily that they use it that night. Maybe someone who knows more about roleblocking than I do can answer this. I think it's probable both Someone and Yanqush have one, so...

[vikingfan]

And just so you know, my quote is not from my PM, it's from my earlier claim, just so I don't get modkilled.

[vikingfan]

Right now, I'd like to hear a claim from Blackberry, Phoebus, and Lucky for the reasons listed above-you're all on the hot seat. Due to the reasoning above, I KNOW one of you is scum, and possibly two of you. Due to that,we're going to have probably at least two people claiming the same role so that'll cut our odds down. To me, this seems like the next logical step.

[vikingfan]

Correct-which means one of them has to be scum.

Elaborate more, both of you.

Someone, if you're the real vig too, speak up (otherwise stay silent). If he's the real vig, then both of them are likely scum (unless Someone is scum). If not, then one of them is telling the truth (Hez has already stated he's not the vig).

[vikingfan]

Do you have anything more that goes with your role, or not?

[vikingfan]

OK, to both Phoebus and Blackberry-are you one-shot vigs or do you have multiple shots?

And since both Hez and Someone have said they're not vigs, and we know neither Yanqush or I can be one, this means two things. First, one of them is really the vig and the other is lying scum. Second, someone else is still scum. Even though we're going to lynch either Phoebus or Blackberry today, I still want to hear Hez's claim-it's going to be a lot easier tomorrow if we can make sure who's lying today.

[vikingfan]

Not so, Hez. First, never outguess the mod.

Second, let's say we do have two bad guys. Either Phoebus or Blackberry must be one. Since there is only one counterclaim, I'm inclined to believe the real vig is also in that pair. So that clears them out. That means one of the rest of us must be scum. And it becomes quite obvious at that point what this means. Someone has already said he's not vig, and neither is Yanqush or I, or you. But then I must be inclined to think Yanqush is doc (though I don't know for sure). That means either you or Someone must have the extra role. That means the other is scum. So logically, Someone would be the other scum IF I believe you.

And in any case, I have to think of EVERY eventuality- it's likely we have only two baddies left, but if we have three, then the game changes significantly.

In any case, I'm willing to let this drop until tomorrow, assuming there is one, and go after either Blackberry or Phoebus.

[vikingfan]

And you aren't cleared either Hez-nobody here is. I can quite easily think of a solution-either Blackberry or Phoebus is MAFIA and then you could be the SK. Or, alternatively, one of them is the SK(as originally theorized) and Someone is mafia.

FOS Hezlucky

. There is no indication whatsoever right now of who's of what killing party. I think personally it's far more likely that either Phoebus or Blackberry is SK, which leaves us with any one of us-including you- as the remaining mafia.

Now, there's an alternative. If we lynch mafia today, then I KNOW you're the SK due to prior reasoning of the SK belonging to that group of Phoebus, Hez, or Blackberry. That's why I'm looking for the claim- at least one of you is scum, and very possibly two.

[vikingfan]

But as said above, I'm letting the claim drop until tomorrow.

[vikingfan]

That's fine-but if you can find a gap in that logic above, feel free.

But for today, it's Phoebus or Blackberry. I'm just hoping we can find a way to tell which of them is the true vig-that could help us out tomorrow, assuming there is one.

[vikingfan]

I'm honestly not sure yet-that's why I asked both for more info including whether it's a 'one-shot' or regular vig role. I gotta hear from both of them on this before I make my pick.

BTW, blackberry is a he.

[vikingfan]

OK, that seems strange to me. I believe (though I could be wrong) that vigs do not choose the method of execution- they just say "I want to kill LML," and the mod takes it from there.

If somebody else will confirm what I'm thinking, I'm putting on a vote. Until then, however, I'm going to use an

FOS Blackberry

.

Oh, and is your ability a one-shot or multiple times(directed at Phoebus as well). I want to know as much as I can before we hopefully lynch the guilty culprit.

[vikingfan]

Never mind the last paragraph of my above post, I just reread Blackberry's post above.

[vikingfan]

Phoebus already said it was ENYH, which makes sense, at least to me.

Why did you specify a pillow? Or did halo require a method of death be sent as well as the choice?

[vikingfan]

Man, this is hard-I wanna hear from the others on this one. I think it's pretty obvious to all that this is a critical lynch, so I want to get every opinion possible.

[vikingfan]

Hez, I don't think we can necessarily get anything off kill method (much as I wish we could). The reason why is that I think back to night 1- Tigris was pushed off a cliff, something that was not repeated in night 2. Not only that, but Nightfall was shot dead night 1-again something that was not repeated night 2.

This is one reason I'm slightly hesitant about Blackberry- it doesn't seem like halo puts a lot of emphasis on kill methods, though I could be wrong.

[vikingfan]

BTW, Hez, LML is a cop-mods usually never lie about players' roles. If they wish to conceal them, they announce how the roles will be revealed before the game starts (i.e. revealing PMs, but not roles).

[vikingfan]

Then why would he get a post restriction?

Does vikingfan's post restriction work no matter what?

As far as I know, yes (unless the mod has something he's not telling me). AFAIK, the post restriction and role blocking are part and parcel of the same package. That's why neither Someone or Yanqush can be our SK.

[vikingfan]

Actually no, Phoebus. We have not had one shooting each night- the kill methods have been different each time.

Nevertheless, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote Blackberry

. I just can't buy that Blackberry actually sent in a kill method-it doesn't seem to fit what I know of the general mafia game. Scum, whether SK or mafia, usually just send in a choice.

[vikingfan]

That's correct, I'm claiming Vig.

Right here, he declares that he's vig.

[vikingfan]

Where are you getting the idea that Yanqush is the doc? Obviously, he has to be either the doc or the extra role, but that's only 50% odds, not 100%. Hez has staked out the extra role, but that just means either he's trying to cover his doc role or else he's scum (both of which are possible). Not saying he's scum, but there's no guarantee that Yanqush is doc.

[vikingfan]

That's what it all hinges on- believing Hez. But Someone could just as easily be doc.

Not that it matters-I'm leaving Hez for tomorrow as we agreed upon earlier.

[vikingfan]

Agreed, Hez-we should make sure we have another day. If we lynch mafia(hypothetically), we could have 3 kills the next night, bringing us down to 2, which means the game would be over and one of the 3 sides would have won, which would have reduced the win for any side to chance, pretty much. Not very satisfactory. Go into night and then have a no-lynch as Hez recommends.

Unvote Blackberry

in the interest of gaining more info.

It's clear to everyone that I'm a roleblocker, so you can put that into your info collector-some just disagree on my allegiance, though like everyone else(except Yanqush) I'm unable to prove I'm protown.

I can't accept Scenario 2-while it's certainly possible I'm mafia, making me the roleblocker AND a vig/SK doesn't fit any game I've ever run across. I would edit that to (from your point of view):

SK/Vig: Phoebus/Blackberry
Possible Mafia: Viking/Someone
Doc/other role: Yanqush, HezLucky.

I still find it interesting that you're so willing to accept the idea of 2 scum- I still think 3 scum is a possibility, in which case, I'll outline Scenario 3.

SK/Vig: Phoebus/Blackberry
2 out of 3: Viking, Someone, HezLucky
Cleared: Yanqush

Personally, from my standpoint, it's one of these.

Scenario 4
Mafia/SK-Vig-Phoebus/Blackberry(I'm still holding the option open of one being mafia. I don't know for sure, but I don't want to reject anything offhand)
Possible Scum: Hez/Someone.
Roleblocker: Viking
Cleared: Yanqush

BTW, I do still likely agree that we probably have 2 scum-I'm just leaving the option open that we have 3.

Is there anything I'm missing?

[vikingfan]

Also, the hypothetical in the first sentence assumes 3 scum-something I don't know for sure but am assuming worst-case scenario. If it's only 2 scum left over, then no matter what happens, we're going to have another day.

[vikingfan]

Well, it should be noted that if we lynch incorrectly-i.e. the real vig- I know then to roleblock the false one, which will cut us down to one kill tonight (the non-vig-claiming scum). Regardless, the scum among Phoebus/blackberry will go down either today or tomorrow.

[vikingfan]

Kickbutt!

..unless you are the scum.

But if you aren't, kickbutt!

What are you talking about? Are you encouraging the plan of roleblocking the false vig if we lynch incorrectly?

[vikingfan]

I don't like the plan- the vig role is too valuable to be thrown away like that, especially when we already have at least a 50% chance of nailing the real scum today. I'd rather lynch today, if we lynch wrong, I block the real scum, and we only have 1 kill. Then we have 5 left the next day. Lynch the real scum, one kill again, and we're down to 3 and then the game will end no matter what happens.

[vikingfan]

Ah, OK, 4 left. In that case, it gets hard since we would have 2 scum left-though we'd know one for sure. Hmm- that can get a little tricky, but we still have potential for no deaths that night anyway-either through A)doc protecting, or B)roleblocking. but yeah, that's too risky, especially since the scum can easily pick me or the doc off to partially eliminate those odds.

There is another thought. No-lynching, even with 4 people and 2 scum, and hope for cross killing. But that gets a little too unsatisfactory for all involved-it reduces the game to mere chance as to who gets killed.

Hmm, maybe your plan is better.

[vikingfan]

Or here's another scenario.

We lynch scum correctly, one nightkill. 4 left.
No-lynch. 3 left. We should then have a good idea of who the last scum is through either doc-protecting or roleblocking.

[vikingfan]

Alrighty then.

Vote nolynch

[vikingfan]

I don't trust that last post by Blackberry whatsoever. Stick to the plan, both of you- sounds like desperate scum to me, who's admitted that he's scum and wants to stay alive.

[vikingfan]

Blackberry's whole thing on 'keep me alive' assumes that we have two mafia left-something I don't think is true and neither does mostly anyone else.

Let's just go with the plan for everyone, have 3 people left(likely), and go from there.

[vikingfan]

Not necessarily, (as I've said before) but there are two things to be noted. A)as hez has said, 5 scum is too much for this game, and B)Blackberry seems desperate to save himself, which makes me think we need to stick with the plan. He may be mafia, SK, or the real vig trying to dissuade us from the plan so that he can stay in the game.

Honestly, though, I think we have to go with the best plan and this seems to be it. It's not foolproof, but it's the best we can do.

I think though, we may be better off roleblocking and protecting people not among the vig/scum duo. Trading off a scum for a vig is a reasonable trade, IMO, so we need to center on eliminating a second nightkill. If the doc protects correctly or if I block correctly, we probably have a second scum.

[vikingfan]

BAH!

And I thought I was doing so well too...

[vikingfan]

Dang, that's too bad. Us Mafia had a great thing going too.

halo, you might want to change up your plans next time. Blackberry and I caught on early that the setup was a virtual copy of your Simpsons Mafia, which allowed me to kill Yanqush on consecutive nights. We just had bad luck-losing our mafia night 1 and our traitor day 1.

BTW, I found out after the game I wasn't a real roleblocker, just someone who beat people up and gave them a post restriction. I understand now why Someone kept quiet-he knew I was scum but my role gave him a nice alibi. Should have killed hez instead, Someone- if you had, it would have been a 3 way standoff between me, you, and Phoebus- not a bad conclusion with 3 killing roles. Though, of course, in that scenario, the game would end in obliteration.

[vikingfan]

Good thing we elected to kill you, then, LML- you gave me a copish vibe, so I sent Blackberry to kill you.

BTW, if my role had been a real rolelblocker, the game would have ended in complete obliteration- blackberry went after Phoebus and I whacked/kill Yanqush, but he chose (correctly!) to protect Phoebus. To me, that was the real play of the game, and I'm surprised he picked correctly. If he hadn't, scum (probably Someone) would have won the game without much trouble.

[vikingfan]

Killed hez instead of me, Someone. Though that wouldn't have given you the game (unless your win condition specified that you won if everyone else was dead). Doing that would have made everyone die.

[vikingfan]

Why did you kill me, actually?