Newbie 934 - Game Over!

[Coach Travis]

1.I heard about Mafia from my brother who uses a forum called Something Awful. He had me read through some games, and I instantly found the concept intriguing. So as soon as this site was mentioned as being a good place to play this game, I was interested.

2.Yes, but on smaller forums where most people were new to it, so it was strange. I've completed one game, and am now in a second one, probably going to lose tonight.

3.Yes, I enjoy random voting.

4.I believe I started in November.

[Coach Travis]

Sorry for the double post, the second set of questions appeared while I was answering the first one.

1. Sorry, could you explain what both are?
2.I don't want to spoil anything, but I should be reasonably active, and will likely vote quite a bit.
4. Not much, really. I more think of what I'm saying as I type, and don't plan things out that much beforehand, just get a basic idea, and then go from there.
5. Only if I'm about to get lynched, or feel I'm in danger of a night kill. Otherwise, no.
6. EST(I live near Toronto, if that helps) I prefer nights, 6PM-4AM are my best hours.

[Coach Travis]

Alright then. I like both, slighty prefer RVS.

[Coach Travis]

Sorry, I've been kinda busy today. Man, this is moving faster than the other games I was in, much faster. Anyway, someone will have to explain how to use quotes, because I couldn't figure that out(struggled with it on other forums as well).

But to respond to mb53:Honestly, lots of people automatically get scummy vibes from me, it's really strange. It's happened in my other two games as well, so nothing new there. Anyway, I have heard of Random Voting and Random Questioning, but I guess because I've never played here I never saw them abbreviated like that, so that's probably what confused me. I won't even pretend to be a newbie(to the game, I'm obviously a newbie to the site), because I do have a good amount of knowledge about the game.

I never really saw the point of Random Questioning, as you can't that much out of it, where with random votes I've seen times where you get unexpected reactions that help give leads.

Speaking of RV's, time to pull off my first one of the game:

Vote:Eklipse

[Coach Travis]

Whoops, made a grammar error there. Whenever that happens, it's likely me typing too fast and missing it when I go to edit. Happens way too often. I'll try to limit such mistakes as we go on, I promise.

[Coach Travis]

Oh, and my answer wasn't in less than a minute:SSB explained it a couple minutes before you put the links up, and I immediately responded to that. So I never even saw the wikis until after my answer. But the point is, I knew exactly what Random Voting and Random Questioning were, I just never saw stage added at the end of them, so I didn't know the abbreviations. Again, I was playing somewhere that wasn't as devoted to mafia, so I didn't have experts explaining every little detail about the game, and I actually learned more from reading games on other forums than I did playing.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, that's something I didn't want to spoil about my play-style:I do have a habit of seeming suspicious. Could never figure out why, but I always seem to come across as scummy, and it really annoys me.

[Coach Travis]

I'm a bit concerned when someone adds a RV to a player who already has one, so I'll be looking out for Charlie. And obviously, my previous post was directed at mb53

[Coach Travis]

Man, this Eklipse bandwagon is too much for this stage of the game.

Unvote

[Coach Travis]

Coach Travis is my second, based on my earlier post. Nerves - double, and triple posting, and defending and justifying things that nobody has asked you to are usually good scumtells in my book.

I think part of my nervousness comes from the fact that I'm coming off a game where I was a townie, and was the first lynched, no matter how well I was doing defending myself. So the early vote here scared me(because it felt like it could be deja vu), and it made me overly cautious, I think. I'll try and avoid that as we go on.

Anyway, I agree with the case on Super:His voting hasn't really made sense, he really should have noticed the state his vote would put Eklipse in, plus the whole promising a big post and then never doing it. I still don't want to vote him yet, because I know from experience how an early L1 can be bad, but It's a definite cause for an

FOS:Super Smash Bros. Fan

[Coach Travis]

@Robocopter87:ISO#7 explains #8:I dislike RV bandwagons, and what happened there was I actually went to bed shortly after #7, and woke up to see Super's vote on Eklipse. I knew I'd be out all day, so I felt I needed to unvote to help prevent a needless bandwagon.

Anyway, to answer Nacho's question:At this point, I think it's tough to decide who a potential scum buddy would be. I definitely need more evidence before I look into that. So far, no one else has really stuck out to me at this point, but I'll be watching.

Also, I'd like to see some more content from Matteh, really haven't seen much from him yet.

[Coach Travis]

Just by looking through everyone's posts so far, one thing sorta stuck out:Matteh has yet to contribute much of anything. He's asked a few decent questions, but hasn't really done any mafia hunting, and his comments on Super were all just repeating what had been said. It's like he's actively lurking:pretending to be helping, and posting occasionally, but not adding anything substantial. I don't have enough on him to vote, but I'll be watching him, and I think he needs to start contributing soon.

[Coach Travis]

Sorry if it seems I'm not contributing:I've really been trying(I've read through everyone's posts multiple times), but I'm not finding a whole lot at this point, and a lot of what I do find has been mentioned. The Matteh thing was one thing I noticed that no one else had really brought up, so I just wanted to mention it, get his attention, and hope for him to make more helpful posts. Here's a brief analysis for now:

Super:I was never entirely convinced that he's scum, and he has been pretty helpful lately. His early mistakes seem like they could have just been newbie mistakes, but I'm still not entirely convinced. Read= Slightly town

Matteh:Again, hasn't really contributed anything, while promising much more. He seems the most scum to me right now.

Nacho:Read=very town.Great scum-hunting, one of the better contributors so far. Could be scum trying to lead us the wrong way, but it seems unlikely right now.

Shad:Also seems pretty town to me so far, with some very helpful posts, and a good analysis of robo(regardless of whether or not I agree, he did a good job with it).

Robo:Not sure right now. His first few posts were jokey, but once the game got serious, so did he. He's done a bit of scum-hunting, though not as much as some of the others, but I agree that bandwagoning is something we need to be careful to avoid, unless we're completely convinced that someone's scum. Overall, a bit null compared to some of the others, but slightly town.

mb53:Has come across as town so far, with scum-hunting, and overall helpful posting.

Eklipse:Definitely a town read at this point. Hasn't been as active as some, but he's been very helpful with all his posts, and stayed calm even during the crazy RV bandwagon.

Charlie:Another player I haven't seen a whole lot from. I wouldn't say the act of lurking is a guaranteed scum-tell, but I don't like it. Need to see more before I can make a proper read, but for now he's null, slightly scum.

So right now, my two most suspicious are Matteh and Charlie, but I need to see some more before I can make a vote.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, Matteh delivered his big post, so obviously I don't consider him as scummy right now(his previous lack of anything helpful was really all I had against him). As for Robo and Super:I can understand the cases against both, and do somewhat agree with some of the points, but I'm still not entirely convinced to vote for either one, and as I've said previously, I won't make a serious vote until I'm very certain, because I don't want to make a halfhearted vote, and end up lynching a townie.

[Coach Travis]

Charlie never fell off my suspicion list:The post mentioned contained my reactions to what happened in the previous few hours, and since Charlie wasn't involved, I didn't mention him. Though with him it's similar to Matteh:He hasn't necessarily done anything suspicious, I'd just like to see more from him. So I'll give him some time, and see what happens.

And while I understand that voting isn't as risky as I made it sound, I feel I need to be at least somewhat confident the person is scum before I can do it, and right now no one has reached that point.

[Coach Travis]

@Coach Travis and Eklipse: (Credits to Shadsticle for this question) Let's say the deadline was in five minutes and you had the hammer. Who would you hammer and why?

At this point it would likely be Robo, because if I forget about things like inactivity and just focus on who's been the most suspicious, I'd say right now Robo would be at the top of my list. I'm just not liking his whole attitude at this point, the laziness, seeming like he's avoiding questions, and yeah, it really was an OMGUS vote. And even his response to you just didn't seem right to me, like he was disagreeing with you but not making much of an effort to explain why your case against him is wrong. So while I still wouldn't vote him this instant, in a last minute situation, I think I would.

@Coach Travis: If you were one vote away from being lynched and a person would hammer if he doesn't like your next post, how would you defend yourself?

My defenses always depend on the situation. Obviously, I'd need to do something seriously wrong in order to reach that point. But in general, I'd say I've been trying, maybe not been as aggressive as I should, but whenever I've been asked something I've made an effort to answer(I missed some questions from Matteh, but only because they were based on a specific time in the game, and by the time I was around to answer them, they were pretty much irrelevant). And I always try to give reasoning for everything I do. But again, if I was in that situation I'd have more to respond to, so the defense would likely be much longer and more detailed.

[Coach Travis]

Also, why did you vote for Eklipse as an random vote when mb53 already gave an serious vote? I know I did the same thing later, but nevertheless, please elaborate.

Because there still wasn't a ton of serious discussion going on. Honestly, in retrospect that probably wasn't a great idea, but I always like making at least one RV per game, so it was better to use it early on before things really got interesting.

Oh, and EB explained the quoting thing to me shortly after my one post, and in case you never noticed, I've used the occasional quote since then.

As for the analysis: I found it interesting overall, but a lot of what you said is stuff that has been mentioned already, and I don't really feel I learned much new from it:I already found Robo suspicious, and even my own brief analysis came to similar conclusions for who appeared townie, and so far, nothing has changed to make me feel otherwise. And your "parroting" thing on me is ironic, because it's pretty much parroting what mb53 said.

[Coach Travis]

I've mentioned it a few times:Robo. However, he already has three votes on him, so another one would put him into L-1, where he could easily be finished off if we're wrong and there's currently no mafia voting him. With that being said, I'm actually fairly close to voting him at this point, as I am getting progressively more suspicious of him.

[Coach Travis]

@Coach Travis: I can't help but notice your lack of a vote has helped you avoid taking a strong position on anything. Could you arrange everyone in order of scumminess with a few sentences of reasoning by each so I can see where you stand in this game.

I really haven't been finding much no one else has already pointed out, even when I've done long read-throughs. But since you asked, I will provide updated impressions on everyone, most scum to least scum:


Robo:I just haven't liked his attitude most of this game, and I don't mean his joking style from earlier, that was fine. What I mean is, throughout the whole game he's seemed like he doesn't really care, his response to Super's case on him in particular just seemed like him saying "you're wrong", without really going into much detail to explain why he feels that way. The fact that he has some experience means I can't just rule him out as a newbie town.

Charlie:I don't know, something about him is still bothering me, even though he has been posting a bit more. I'm not really liking his case on Super,and don't see why he'd say Super lost the debate with Robo, considering more people seem suspicious of Robo at this point.

Matteh:He had his one big post, but I haven't seen much from him since. Nothing about him is really bothering me, but I really don't have much of a read on him either way at this point.

Eklipse:He had some really good posts early on, but has kinda disappeared lately. I won't hold the lurking against him, because as I said, every post he's made has been rather helpful, but I would like to see him return soon.

Super:I did find him suspicious earlier, but he's since revealed himself to pretty much be an excited newbie, which is fine, as he's at least been putting an effort into his case on Robo, and not ruling out that someone else could be mafia.

Shad:I still have a pro-town read on him. He's done some scumhunting, and been helpful overall.

mb53:You know, I can't blame him for being so suspicious of me:I really just don't think I'm cut out for playing mafia(I have a hard time making good reads on players no matter how much I read through, which is the reason for so little content, and that obviously makes me a bad townie). Regardless, he's been one of our most helpful players, so he still gets a strong townie read.

Nacho:I've never suspected him at all to this point, and he's done nothing to make me think otherwise. He's been a very good scum-hunter this game, and has just generally come across as a very helpful townie.

[Coach Travis]

I don't get this accusation of flip flopping. This is mafia we're playing, you aren't supposed to just target one person the entire game and make it so you can't be convinced to switch up if you're proven wrong. All my supposed "flip flopping", has been when I've felt my original suspicions didn't seem as convincing, due to the person either defending well, playing better, or doing what I was requesting, and then I'd find someone else more suspicious. And I've been rather consistentfor the last little while.

[Coach Travis]

I've pretty much already said everything I have to say for now:I'm not finding anything to talk about at this point that hasn't been mentioned. I'm trying, but I just don't think I can make a good scum-hunter at all.

I'm liking Deer so far:Good content posts, scum-hunting right from the start, and just generally being a helpful townie. Otherwise, not much I can say at this point, though Robo is still my top suspect.

Sorry, if I seem unhelpful, I'm just totally not sure what to do at this point. If I realized I'd be this bad, I wouldn't have signed up.

[Coach Travis]

Nowhere anyone here would have heard of, but that's irrelevant. It was less than the equivalent of a newb game, that's all you need to know.

My problem is I'm just generally too indecisive, which is terrible for trying to play mafia. I really like the idea of the game, but I've discovered I just can't handle the actual playing, so I'm likely done once this is over.

I'll go back through every post tomorrow, see if I can find anything, but for now I'm as clueless as ever.

[Coach Travis]

Just wanted to clarify that I don't actually want to quit, nor am I bored:I am simply having a hard time here, and will likely stop after this game, but since I've already started I'd hate to just back out.

Anyway, I couldn't do anything yesterday, because my computer got hit with some kind of virus, so I didn't get to post at all until now, since I had to borrow a computer. At this point, I'm interested to see what LC will say, as Robo was obviously my top suspect, so this situation could further complicate the game for me.

[Coach Travis]

Everything I've done this game can be explained off by the fact that I'm a confused newb(as stated previously, my prior experience hardly counts, it was that bad). At this point I won't make a big defense against an impending lynch:I'm not disinterested in the game, but if confirming that I'm a townie is more helpful than I can ever be, so be it. I want the town to win regardless, so I don't care if I have to be the first to go.

I still need to see more from LC, but at this point it can go both ways:I'm still somewhat suspicious of Robo's actions, but going through again I can kinda see how he was just overwhelmed with all the games he was in, and was maybe a bit unfocused on this one. His unvote certainly isn't as scummy as Super makes it sound, especially when he unvotes while still finding him scummy, something that's more suspicious. Though I would still like an explanation from LC of why he feels Super's vote was "forced".

I've kinda switched between finding Super suspicious and thinking he's just an excited newb, but some of his recent posts do lean back towards the former. Still not ready to make a vote at this time, but I'll make sure to do so within the next few days, if I'm not gone already.

[Coach Travis]

@Super;Me and LC=Scum team? LOL Is there anything to actually make you think that, aside from us being your top suspects? Because I don't see it. Also, I really don't like speculating on scum teams this early, maybe if I'm around in day 2 I may a have better idea.

@LC:I'm not trying to deny responsibly for my actions this game:I just feel my biggest problem is that I'm not a good scum hunter, and part of that is because I'm new, and am having a hard time really finding anything suspicious that other people aren't mentioning. I have done some suspicious things, but sometimes I didn't even see how it could be suspicious until after I had already posted it. Basically, newbie mistakes.

Also, I agree that everyone needs to vote now, myself included. I think LC has been good so far, he's made some interesting posts, done some scum hunting, and hasn't really done anything suspicious, so considering I was beginning to doubt if Robo was scum, I feel that LC's recent posts make him seem townie.

I've suspected Charlie at points this game, but I think he's been doing better lately. Matteh I'm not liking, and agree that he hasn't really been helpful. Not sure if he's done anything all that suspicious, but then, simply not helping much alone is suspicious, especially right near the end of the day.

And I'm still not liking Super:contradicting himself right in the same post(saying he's willing to switch to Charlie or LC, then saying his vote on me is set in stone, and obviously I still don't like that unvote. However, he has been scum hunting, and he is giving reasons for voting me, so I'll avoid the OMGUS vote.

So, at this point, since Charlie has been doing better, and I'm still 50/50 on Super, I'm going to

Vote:Matteh

Obviously, I am willing to switch to Super, though right now I do feel Matteh more suspicious, since he really hasn't done much of anything since his big post, when everyone else has been doing better.

[Coach Travis]

@mb53;Wait, what? You think Matteh is scum either way, yet still criticize me for voting him, and switch your vote to me? That makes no sense to me at all. I'm also still not getting this correlation people seem to think I have with LC:One person thinks we're scum buddies, one thinks if one of us is town so is the other. What's up with that? I'm still seeing no connection there.

Anyway, I made that vote because I needed to actually do something this game, and i didn't want to vote Super because that would seem scummy after he just voted me, so I went to my number two suspect. If that still seems scummy, I'm just the worst mafia player ever, and deserve to be lynched.

[Coach Travis]

@Charlie:I'm not scum, and I don't have a PR, so you can figure my role out from there. Don't beleive me? You'll likely have it confirmed very soon.

@mb53:Right now, my serious top suspect is Super, due partially to process of elimination since two of my top suspects have been better lately(LC and Charlie), and Matteh is still getting a null read, and voting him probably was wrong, because as I said, I was never all that convinced.

Unvote

Super, however, I've not liked at all this last little while, due to some contradictions, and a bit of hypocrisy of his own, things I myself have been called out for. Basically, his whole saying he's open to voting LC and Charlie, then in the same sentence, saying his vote on me is set in stone, is a contradiction, and his posts where he complained about Robo unvoting him when he still found him town, then himself unvoting LC who he still found scummy, is hypocrisy. So yeah, since my back's against the wall, I'll just go with my top suspect, and

Vote:Super Smash Bros. Fan

I didn't do it earlier to prevent further suspicion on me, but I really have nothing to lose at this point, since I'm probably getting lynched anyway.

I'm also not totally sure about you anymore, simply because unvoting someone you actually think is scum just doesn't seem right to me, not to mention, you either contradicted yourself, or outright lied:Earlier, you pointed out a post where I was scum hunting, then recently you said I never scum hunted at all, which is again, either you just contradicted yourself, or told an outright lie. Either way, it's scummy. So I definitely think you're worth looking into after today. But right now I think it's either me or SSBF gone, and I'd obviously prefer it to not be me.

[Coach Travis]

@mb53:No, I don't believe it was that bad, because he is my second suspect, so it's not like I was voting someone I thought was town, and I seriously believed I'd get called out for an OMGUS vote if I voted Super, so that vote seemed like my best option. Obviously I was wrong, and just managed to once again prove how bad I am at this game. Where you just suddenly unvoted someone you were convinced was scum, to hop on a bandwagon. It sorta makes me think you are scum, baiting me into that vote just so you could have a reason to switch your vote back to me like that.

And no, I don't have any other reasons for voting Super right now, but I do agree with the case on him, and as I've said, coming up with my own cases has always been a problem for me, and the reason I can't be a good scum hunter. I do believe he's the most suspicious right now, which is why I voted him.

[Coach Travis]

Fine, I won't actually name the site, but basically, it's the forums for an RPGMaker game. I'd read mafia games on a pay to register humor forum before(where it actually was well played), so when I saw it on a site I was registered for, I decided to play it. Found out the other players were really bad(I was above average there), and the whole thing was a disaster. So at the end I still sorta felt like a newb.

[Coach Travis]

I'm at 4 votes, Super's at 3. Problem is, I've pretty much dug my own grave at this point, and I'll admit that. I'm not scum, but I've done enough to come across that way, so it's my fault. I accept whatever happens, and just hope the town does better on day 2.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, I'm pretty sure I'm about to become a ghost. Before then, brief thoughts:

mb53;I really didn't like him towards the end of day, between the lies I pointed out, and doing the flip flopping I was sometimes accused of. Watch out for him.

Super:Obviously, I think he's scummy. I'd rec him as the next to be lynched, though I'm still not 100% sure on him.

Charlie:I actually began to like him at the end of the day, became helpful later on, and generally seemed like a townie I thought. Same for Shad, LC and Nacho:Those three seem like the most obvious townies at this post, and I'd be shocked if either were scum.

Matteh:As null as ever. By default, this means he seems scum ,especially since he didn't even show up to vote in the end, as if letting everyone else decide to finish, because he knows who's town due to being scum.

In conclusion:I tried, and failed to play this game and I'm sorry for that, but going ahead look out for Super, Matteh, and mb53. Oh, and I apologize if this isn't allowed:I'm just doing it because of Charlie's post.

Posting in twilight is fine, but be sure to read the rules if you're in doubt - not all mods or games are open to such. -EB

[Coach Travis]

Okay, I just wanted to make sure it was fine:Where I played before as soon as there were enough votes to lynch, it was considered night and no one except the mod could post until the next day.

And I forgot to mention Deer:I think he's town as well. In fact, he goes up there with the other 3 I mentioned, maybe even ahead of them:I thought Eklipse contributed a lot in the few posts he made, and Deer has been even more active and even more helpful than he was. So yeah, I'm very confident that Deer is a townie.