ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[Empking]

Vote: Bilbo

- He doesn't look sincere. "I must vote Has for winning a previous ASOIAF game." Doesn't make sense.

[Empking]

@Empking and Magua

– Nothing to say at all about the L-3 LMP wagon?

No. It'll come in useful once we have a flip and if either of LMP or vezok are scum then it'll be a veritable feast of scum. As it is its a null tell.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: SK

- Multiple random votes and shirking from the wagon.

[Empking]

Vote: SK - Multiple random votes and shirking from the wagon.

1. How do you know that it is a random vote?

I presumed.

2. Why is getting off an L-3 (I think) wagon a scum-tell when Saint K's vote was the first vote and clearly RVS?

Its a scumtell because there isn't a pro-town motive. The only motive I can think of is that SK and LMP are buddies and SK doesn't want LMP to have attention 0on him or that SK is scum and trying to suggest the LMP/SK connection after SK's death.

[Empking]

What if it's a purely selfish motive and I don't want LMP lynched before I get a chance to play with him?

Oh yeah, there are the null out-of-game reasons but an action with scum motives and null motives is a scum tell.

[Empking]

Its a scumtell because there isn't a pro-town motive. The only motive I can think of is that SK and LMP are buddies and SK doesn't want LMP to have attention 0on him or that SK is scum and trying to suggest the LMP/SK connection after SK's death.

So SaintK can’t possibly be Town who came back to the thread and saw that his random vote had expoded into a big wagon?

--

Town playing to win wouldn't have unvoted if he found his random vote had expoded into a big wagon.

[Empking]

Its a scumtell because there isn't a pro-town motive. The only motive I can think of is that SK and LMP are buddies and SK doesn't want LMP to have attention 0on him or that SK is scum and trying to suggest the LMP/SK connection after SK's death.

Do you think that a RVS "wagon" on me is going to make me feel pressure? Why?

Yes because the spotlight would be on you. If you were close to lynch people would expect you to explain why they shouldn't lynch you.

Town playing to win wouldn't have unvoted if he found his random vote had expoded into a big wagon.

Not sure this is true. Expand please.

If he's town then he does something scummy without that action being pro-town or (ignoring the scumminess of it) helping his wincon.

[Empking]

Empking, you seem to be playing this game in "theory-land" as opposed to thinking about actual "playing-mafia-land". Why?

One of the original scum tells, I used was based in theory-land and I've just been defending that scumtell. A sort of Fonzian scumhunting strategy is something that I want to use in this game in general, though.

[Empking]

Empking, you seem to be playing this game in "theory-land" as opposed to thinking about actual "playing-mafia-land". Why?

One of the original scum tells, I used was based in theory-land and I've just been defending that scumtell. A sort of Fonzian scumhunting strategy is something that I want to use in this game in general, though.

Do you think that actually works in practice?

If something is done for null reasons and scum reasons but not town reasons then absolutely you'll get a better than random porportion of scum doing the action. Absolutely.

[Empking]

LB looks like he's putting town effort in to me. I don't see what all the votes are for.

[Empking]

Benmage is town. His thinking is exactly the same as mine.

[Empking]

I agree with vezok. The only possible scumbag I see on the SK wagon is Maemuki (a null read) other than that the only town read I have that isn't on SK is DGB (Or I suppose MOI because I think AGM might well be right with his wagon analysis.)

[Empking]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

Nice deflection. The belittling is the "you never caught me in that game" bit, not the "pointing out a bad link". You try to undermine me with that throw away "oh you never voted me" buisness. You still haven't explained WTF that has to do with whether or not it's a fair comparison. Because it has dick all to do with it, but you're more interested in making a slick point than in showing my argument

to be false if it is.

You also did have not explained why the comparison is bad, you only call it a bad link. So double fail.

Hi again all. LMP is scum for the bolded. Please vote accordingly.

Why?

[Empking]

the only town read I have that isn't on SK is DGB

...this reads like you think I'm town, but that's not the stance I've seen from you. Clarify?

You're my biggest scum read. DGB is a town read. She is also the only town read not voting for you.

[Empking]

...but you're being overly difficult[...].
You also seem to be taking little snipes at people. It's like you're trying to be annoying.

That would be the dumbest, most counterproductive scum strategy EVA, don't you think?

Unless that's what he WANTS you to think!

[Empking]

Guys, let's all compromise and lynch Magua.

Unvote, Vote: Magua

I can agree with that. I'd also say that he's more likely to be the CR which I presume is the biggest threat.

Unvote, Vote: Magua

[Empking]

I can agree with that. I'd also say that he's more likely to be the CR which I presume is the biggest threat.

Unvote, Vote: Magua

I'm extremely curious: Why am I more likely to be the cult recruiter than cult or mafia?

Your sole focus seems to be on slipping under the radar rather than causing mislynches and such.

[Empking]

I'd also say that he's more likely to be the CR which I presume is the biggest threat.

Except he can't recruit until N2- read the rules.

I did read the rules. The Cult Recruitor will still be the greatest threat and I don't trust us having another chance to kill Magua.

[Empking]

I'm leery of players that would vote a player over another for unsupported claims of "more likely to be CR."

Just vote scummy. Scummy is mafia, scummy is CR. We're lucky if we hit scum. CR would be nice, but distinguishing CR from mafia this on Day 1 is a pipe dream.

You're ignoring the fact that Magua and SK are around equal scumminess but part of SK's scumminess is the self-evident support she had from Mafia to avoid her lynch and drag MOI up.

Faraday: LMP is on the scummy side of null.

[Empking]

Mina: What's the difference between the reactions of town getting run up for reasons they don't agree with and scum getting run up for reasons they don't agree with? Why is MOI the former?

[Empking]

I'm leery of players that would vote a player over another for unsupported claims of "more likely to be CR."

Just vote scummy. Scummy is mafia, scummy is CR. We're lucky if we hit scum. CR would be nice, but distinguishing CR from mafia this on Day 1 is a pipe dream.

You're ignoring the fact that Magua and SK are around equal scumminess but part of SK's scumminess is the self-evident support she had from Mafia to avoid her lynch and drag MOI up.

Faraday: LMP is on the scummy side of null.

Mind you, people that scream "CR" have an increased probability of being

mafia

. How 'bout that, pussycat?

*shrug*

[Empking]

Yeah, Nexus is totally town.

[Empking]

Magua will fall off the radar and always be the guy everyone wants dead, but never wants to waste time on. He should be lynched now before he can hide.

This. Just this.

[Empking]

OK, the fact that MOI seems to think he'll flip scum (I presume that's what he means by janitor'd) means I have to reluctantly find him suspicious. I'll probably hammer tommorrow if he hasn't already been lynched by then.

[Empking]

Vote: Magua

[Empking]

Didn't we all say that we wanted to get rid of Magua before he had as chance to recruit?

[Empking]

Yo Spyrex, you don't think a cult leader would be more likely to lurk? I'm thinking survivalist tactics and that brings me to lurking, avoiding bandwagons, and generally keeping as many options open as possible. Maemuki decided to take all 3 options. Lay down CR Hunting 101 for me if I'm wrong here.

The first bit of this post is very good though I disagree with the conclusions. Hindu: Cult recruitor play is very similar to going to be replaced play. Can you take some of your logic and place your vote where those stuff are actually a tell?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: SK

- If we can't lynch the cult recruitor let us lynch the Mafioso.

[Empking]

Yeah Bilbo is town, who the heck would vote Bilbo? Scum? No. That's what the NK is for. For the Bilbo Baggins of the world.

I'm confused. Though I agree that BB is obvtown and that nobody in their right mind would vote BB, what does it mean considering SK did vote BB?

[Empking]

@Empking - that's exactly DGB's point methinks.

What's DGB's point? Its a null tell

[Empking]

DGB: Is Thor right?

[Empking]

There is significantly less DGB ITT today than there was yesterday.

Which means?

[Empking]

LMP: Why is LL so high up on your list of players? Compared to someone like Magua?

[Empking]

Which means?

Scumpoints.

...seriously, what was the point of that question?

Amusingly to check whether or not you were simply trying to create the mirage of contribution by giving random facts.

[Empking]

2 almost certainally.

[Empking]

Less pissy: If you think that scum were crowding off the MoI and SK wagons, and MoI flipped town, and now you think scum are crowding off the SK wagon, then why are you not considering SK-non-scum?

After all, if it was SK scum vs MoI town, you'd imagine that some of the scum would be pushing MoI.

Scum don't want to be caught saving their buddy.

[Empking]

Scum don't want to be caught saving their buddy.

Seeing as there's been zero suspicion on anyone who was on the MoI wagon, that hardly seems like it'd even be a concern.

Yes but until we revealled we knew that we were onto them then they didn't know that. Plus, we have to wait for SK to flip first.

[Empking]

Yes but until we revealled we knew that we were onto them then they didn't know that.

Plus, we have to wait for SK to flip first.

Enlighten me as to how that's going to affect anything, because as far as I can see:

SK flips scum: "OMG people who were off the SK wagon are her buddies protecting her"

SK flips town: "OMG people who were off the SK wagon are scum stalling the game"

Yes but if people want to look at MOI for buddies then they have to wait for SK to flip. That's why nobody has checked that wagon left. Yes it won't really change my view and maybe some other players but when SK flips scum you know somebody is going to look at that wagon colouring it in until there are only three non-greens left and will then declare "These three are scum" (Unless they're next to each other of course.)

[Empking]

I see nothing from SK that would make me reluctant to lynch him based on his claim.

[Empking]

And check out how, ONCE AGAIN, the same people as yesterday are responsible for the stall.

Benmage (1) -

Thor665

vezokpiraka (1) - Benmage
SaintKerrigan (7) - Lost Butterfly, Locke Lamora, SpyreX, vezokpiraka, AlmasterGM, Empking, LynchMePls
Empking (1) - hasdgfas
hasdgfas (1) - DrippingGoofball
Thor665 (2) - Espeonage, Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo Baggins (1) -

SaintKerrigan

Locke Lamora (1) -

Magua

Not Voting (3) - Nexus, Setael, Hinduragi

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch!

Sweet. I'm stalling my own wagon. Isn't that a funny coincidence?

You're still wasting your vote. Why not create a counterwagon rather than vote obv-town?

[Empking]

*looks at Role PM with more sleep on board*

Crap, I goofed. I'm actually a

Townsperson (Embodiment of the Smith)

. The rest of the claim still applies.

@ Empking: Espeonage is obvtown?

You were the one who dragged up the old analysis not me. Just because you're doing some last minute distancing

now

doesn't mean you weren't stalling

then

.

[Empking]

The point was what motivation would I have to _not_ stall my own wagon (other than being sick of all the derpery going around this town)?

I suppose you're right on that point.

[Empking]

DGB: You suck.

[Empking]

I will speculate that there is scum in these parts that are too chicken to hammer a townie I'm defending:

Benmage
>>>> hasdgfas <<<<
Magua
Thor665
Nexus
Setael
Hinduragi

Out of seven players you think one is probably scum.


Well done.

[Empking]

We thought SK was scum yesterday.

We think SK is scum today.

IF we lynch someone else we'll have the same problem tomorrow.

This is very wise.

[Empking]

That hammer was immensely scummy, especially considering I had just asked for a little time. I'll be shocked if SK flips scum.

On the minuite chance that SK is town then scum caught right here.

[Empking]

One would wonder why you wanted to hammer MoI, then.

Because of his crazy claim.

[Empking]

DGB: Who's scummier out of Espeonage and Has?

[Empking]

That hammer was immensely scummy, especially considering I had just asked for a little time. I'll be shocked if SK flips scum.

On the minuite chance that SK is town then scum caught right here.

Whether SK is town or scum, that hammer was scummy. It was clearly made solely to stifle discussion.

Ya, that hammer was so totally scummy.

Looks like the gambit failed since SK didn't post until after the VC. I guess it'd be worth checking if SK posted anywhere else on site between my revote and ooba's VC, but I don't have time for that now.

V/LA for the weekend

To be fair, the gambit was really really obvious.

[Empking]

Um, hello?

What exactly am I supposed to say in response to people just voting for me but not explaining why? Unless I missed some explanation in Hind's post.

*caught for wrong reasons*

This.

How so?

[Empking]

Have you met Vezok before, SK?

I'd wagon Benmage with you, Thor. I haven't seen anything that makes me think SK isn't scum, though, and at the end of the day, a botched claim is a botched claim. I don't even know if I've seen that from town, and I can recall a number of instances off the top of my head where I've seen it from scum (and that includes myself).

I've seen town claim the role name in the OP rather than their own, and I've not played that many games on this site.

Now, as near as I can tell, SK got wagoned D1 for the same justifications that MoI did -- that is, incredibly bad ones. Fine, whatever. But all of the people who are going, "Well, should've gone with the SK wagon D1" instead of trying to use the additional information we have are being lazy and antitown.

I'm not claiming that the hasdgfas wagon is founded on anything concrete. It's built on the same swamp. But it's 10,000 times more useful to see who's willing to join the hasdgfas wagon, who's willing to support the hasdgfas wagon over the SK wagon, and who clings to the SK wagon and for what reasons, than it is to simply lynch SK at this point.

The problem is that scum knows that SK is caught scum. This means the silly Has thing will just be played by the mafia in order to 6trick us because its not a real alternative.

[Empking]

The problem is that scum knows that SK is caught scum. This means the silly Has thing will just be played by the mafia in order to 6trick us because its not a real alternative.

Illuminate me. Remember, I'm stupid, so I don't grasp your intricacies. Feel free to start with the fact that if you believe SK's claim is a slip, it means that SK is cult, since R'hllor (cult) is the one who deals with souls and Old Faith (mafia) do not.

I'm not aware of the flavour so maybe my perspective is completely stupid but:

1. Scum have several safeclaims.
2. One of these safeclaims is what SK is claiming now and the other is one that has "soul" in it (Maybe its a cult specific safeclaim like unrecruitable.)
3. SK mixed up these claims because she was exposed to both in the same place.

[Empking]

I'm thinking I should be lynched today, if only to show how much fail is behind this wagon. You want to connect the dots and find scum based on my flip? Fine, go do that. But I guarantee this house of scumcards you're building around me is gonna fall hard.

@ Empking: What makes you think scum have several fakeclaims as opposed to one?

Because of course they do?

To everyone that thinks my claim mistake is a scumslip:

- What proof do you have that I didn't simply use a random word instead of "Smith"? I'm sure you've all had enough late nights to know what sleep deprivation can do to the mind...

Its a bit far fetched that your random word was a never-before mentioned word that was distinctly relavant to the game.

[Empking]

Because of course they do?

It's been my experience that scum only get one fakeclaim apiece. If you're implying that they're sharing them...do tell where this speculation comes from.

From playing mafia before.

[Empking]

What makes you think the scum would be doing it here, versus sticking with their own fakeclaims?

Because sharing is clearly the best.

For that matter, if "Souls" is such a bad word to use, then why would it be even part of a pool of fakeclaims?

In a more acceptable context.

[Empking]

Spyrex: You think SK is cult?

[Empking]

Vote: Magua

[Empking]

Empking, do you ever, at all, go back to your original thinking and say, "I was wrong at step 1 and step 2, maybe step 3 is suspect too?"

Yes. What steps are you talking about?

[Empking]

Empking, do you ever, at all, go back to your original thinking and say, "I was wrong at step 1 and step 2, maybe step 3 is suspect too?"

Yes. What steps are you talking about?

Your "SK is obv scum because there's no way town could mess up their claim like that."

Your "Scum jumped from the SK wagon to the MoI / scum avoided the SK wagon altogether D1 to protect their buddy"

Your "Scum bussed SK D2 because she was scum going down"

When did I say the last point?

Your complete lack of "Given that SK was town and my theories about why people were and were not on the SK wagon were all voided, I should go back and rethink things", instead just going with, "Well, we all decided Magua was cult recruiter, let's lynch him"

But you being a CR is completely unrelated to SK's flip?

[Empking]

When did I say the last point?

Post #844:

The problem is that scum knows that SK is caught scum. This means the silly Has thing will just be played by the mafia in order to 6trick us because its not a real alternative.

Not voting Has =/= bussing SK.

But you being a CR is completely unrelated to SK's flip?

Given MoI and SK both being town, do you think I'm the cult recruiter?

Hell, do you think I'm scum?

Yes and Yes. Why would MOI being town change that?

[Empking]

You couldn't have know what they'd flip anyway so your actions are independent of their flips.

[Empking]

And, of course, I'm trying to get clouded by sheer Magua irritation and swing that way when I'm still on the fence.

Do it.

[Empking]

Best missing not ever.

Yesss

Its clearly your subconscious trying to tell you something.

[Empking]

@Emp - read on Benmage?

He started off town and grew scummier so he's null.

[Empking]

Wait he's totally cult.

[Empking]

No because he was scummy yesterday too.

[Empking]

DGB: You think there are only four scum?

[Empking]

DGB: You think there are only four scum?

Why, are you five?

Three mafia in a twenty player game is stupidly low.

[Empking]

Three mafia in a twenty player game is stupidly low.

Um...cult.

So?

DGB: Scum = Mafia?

[Empking]

I'm confused but I don't think I'll be able to be enlightened.

[Empking]

SCUM = Thor + 2 of {SpyreX, vezokpiraka, AlmasterGM, LynchMePls} + hascow on gut

TOWN
SpyreX

[Empking]

Why was Kast non-CR? (Obviously BB was obv town but I for one don't remember having a town read on Kast.)

[Empking]

I think Magua is very likely mafia.

CyberSet's lurking is setting off my paranoia generator into full gear.

Yay we agree!

[Empking]

Ben: When you voted Has onlyu had one more vote that Magua.

[Empking]

Magua (2) - Empking, AlmasterGM
hasdgfas (3) - Magua, DrippingGoofball, Espeonage

[Empking]

LB is listed on the wagon as 3.. then esp voted. 4.. 2 more.

LB unvoted.

[Empking]

Ben: Vote the Magua.

[Empking]

Oh yes.

Since Porochaz was recruited, we know that at least one recruiter isn't jockeying for quality on his team.

Wrong game?

[Empking]

If I was cult, I'd recruit: LMP, Nexus or Hindu.

[Empking]

Go go Magua wagon

[Empking]

Has: Why didn't you investigate Magua?

[Empking]

But the cult cop might be recruitable...

It doesn't add up...

An un-counterclaimed cult cop would be un-lynchable, and un-NK'd.

Can somebody say why cult cop is such a given?

[Empking]

Mod: You have AGM on two wagons

Fixed ~ ooba

[Empking]

That sounds like somebody smugly knowing they have a mod-provided safeclaim.

[Empking]

*sigh*, you fucking idiot, I was getting great reactions.

magua's confirmed town beyond any doubt with his reaction to that lynch.

Why?

[Empking]

*sigh*, you fucking idiot, I was getting great reactions.

magua's confirmed town beyond any doubt with his reaction to that lynch.

Why?

[Empking]

uh what? I answered your question already.

derp

Sorry. Didn't see it. (Disagree but that's theory.)

[Empking]

Vote: Cyber

[Empking]

You're a Cult Cop too?

Unvote

Vote: LB

[Empking]

You're a Cult Cop too?

Unvote

Vote: LB

Unvote

Vote: Benmage

- I don't believe you.

[Empking]

Ben is absolutely scum. I really don't buy his claim.

[Empking]

There's no way cult would claim something that would make scum kill them or fish out a town PR that is only a danger to scum.
Scum claiming scum cop after a cult cop flip has balls the size of casaba melons and is functionally setting himself up for death or counterclaim in very short order.
Town...playing in one of the most horrible ways I've seen a cop play...makes the most sense.

Guys, seriously - we're lynching Benmage?
So the theory is he's cult/scum doing this to destroy the uber threat of LB? I mean, I thought LB was town too, but what the frell?

YOU DO REALISE TODAY IS POSSIBLE LYLO, RIGHT?

How?

[Empking]

4 scum + Cult leader with 2 recruits = half the playerlist. no?

So? Its not one team.

Ben: Scum. I don't know what sort.

[Empking]

Ben: Scum. I don't know what sort.

Sooo not cult...? Okay. Where was the tactic or logic in counterclaiming a Cult Cop claim?

Cult is scum.

[Empking]

Benmage is definitely scum. I know my vote isn't moving.

[Empking]

Locke only has 15 posts.

15 posts out of 1810.

0.8%

Don't mind me, just thinking that as far as lurking goes, Locke has it down to a tee. Anyone accusing me or Espeonage needs to go look at Locke if they haven't already.

God this post is so fucking scummy. TEE HEE HEE I know I'm lurking, but you can't touch me cause Espeonage and Locke are worse! TROLOLLOOL

Frankly this whole benmage v lost butterfly debacle is annoying as fuck cause there's so many other people that deserve and need death

So let's end it by lynching Ben.

[Empking]

You should probably vote Benmage before reading the thread.

This is good posting. (Hopefully it won't be too late.)

[Empking]

Empking: thoughts on balance here? I'd throw in 4 scum, but town seem to be lacking PR's so far and a cult leader grows. Uh, I suppose it starts at 25% of the game, but the fact it can grow to like...a lot more is bad.

We've had three dead PRs dead alreay. How is that "lacking PR's"?

Benmage needs to die.

[Empking]

Sure, yeah one is probably mafia the other could easily be the cult leader.


That post didn't contain a vote for Benmage. Fix that soon.

FTFY

[Empking]

I don't particularly think Benmage is scum, tbh, Empking.

Yeah, forget what I just said, town always tries to out a power role by claiming a name they know to be in the set up.

[Empking]

I don't particularly think Benmage is scum, tbh, Empking.

Yeah, forget what I just said, town always tries to out a power role by claiming a name they know to be in the set up.

Soft-crumb harder...

When did we confirm there's 1 of each embodiment?

We didn't but I think its safe to say that we were all presuming it.

[Empking]

Why would I admit to fakeclaiming as scum?

The same reason you'd admit to fakeclaiming as town. A last ditch attempt to save yourself.

Faraday: Why would this Crone talk come from town?

[Empking]

Why would it come from scum?

To communicate to your buddies before you kick the bucket.

[Empking]

That post didn't contain an unvote. Fix that soon.

If you get quickhammered I will be sure to bemoan how I didn't look town enough in unvoting you sooner You and Spy have both overlooked Nexus in your Cult/Scum hunt. Thoughts?

@Emp - I'll actually agree that Ben looks town now, there's very little gain in what he did for cult or scum.

But there's a lot to lose if he's town for what he did. Therefore its still a very scumleaning action.

It wouldn't even occur to town to go "Today I'll try and out the Crone". Though most scum ignore that feeling for favour of playing the long game it does occur to scum.

[Empking]

lol.

Can we please kill Espeonage now?

Benmage goes first.

[Empking]

Empking, can you please share the scum motivation for Benmage to pull this gambit? They could possibly both flip town, while Esp is scum. So, no brainer.

To out power roles.

[Empking]

Amazing how willing people suddenly are to get on this wagon today with only the lightest of pushes to get the ball rolling. Gratifying, but amazing.

Welcome to Benmage today too.

Yes because lying is only the lightest of pushes.

[Empking]

@Empking - flat out, what alignment do you think Benmage is and why should we lynch him today? (feel free to leave out 'lying' as a reason, he admitted to the lying so we all know that happened)

1. Scum and an important one at that.
2. Trying to out power roles.

[Empking]

There are 7, right? 3 dead, Esp, Emp, Spy. That leaves 1. Not very helpful PoEwise.

I'm not sure whether the embodiments are all unrecruitable. Neither SK nor cow mentioned being unrecruitable.

You might have a point with Cow but I wouldn't put it past SK to miss out on telling us the info.

I think the odds are that though BM is definite scum he's not cult.

I'd like a Magua vig-kill TBH.

[Empking]

I really wish we could've waited for the kill. Benmage has pretty much confiormed himself as non-mafia at this point which means there's not a single way he's not the Cult Recruitor. (His Crone antics make him scum. His buddies not bussing makes him a power role. His attacking Vewzok makes him non-mafia.)

I have to be amused that people are so repelled from voting BM that they're voting the paragon of townies known as AGM.

[Empking]

Empking just said the cult recruiter..... counter claimed the cult cop.

WIFOM

The truth is the truth and the truth is the cult recruiter..... counter claimed the cult cop.

Seriously, trying to pretend there's scum embodiments. I don't know the flavour at all but even I realize that that's laughable (not ruling out safeclaims but BM is talking about something different.)

CES: Like I said. His buddies didn't bus him (otherwise he'd've been lynched). That means he's not expendable. That means he's the CR.

[Empking]

EMPKING NICE TWIST.

OF COURSE SCUM EMBODIMENTS ARE EITHER SAFECLAIMS OR SCUM PRS.. DURRRR

You think scum power roles are the embodiments? Why do you think that?

[Empking]

CES: Like I said. His buddies didn't bus him (otherwise he'd've been lynched). That means he's not expendable. That means he's the CR.

I don't think the cult would be particularly motivated to get benmage lynched here.

I think psychologically fellow cult members would naturally bus they're scum buddy. Its like in a recent game when I bussed my buddy at a cop claim while the actual townies were thinking the Cop was scum. The cult knew that Ben isn't actually borderline retarded town but (apparently) quite brilliant scum therefopre they'd bus.

[Empking]

EMPKING NICE TWIST.

OF COURSE SCUM EMBODIMENTS ARE EITHER SAFECLAIMS OR SCUM PRS.. DURRRR

You think scum power roles are the embodiments? Why do you think that?

It would be an easy way to tie a fakeclaim into a scum PR... aye?

Honestly I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you think there is a scum role that is also one of the seven embodiments.

Preview: Yes which is why you must be a role they really don't want to bus. Which in the Cult is the Cult Recruitor.

[Empking]

EMPKING NICE TWIST.

OF COURSE SCUM EMBODIMENTS ARE EITHER SAFECLAIMS OR SCUM PRS.. DURRRR

You think scum power roles are the embodiments? Why do you think that?

It would be an easy way to tie a fakeclaim into a scum PR... aye?

Honestly I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you think there is a scum role that is also one of the seven embodiments.

Maybe this can be answered with reversed questioning and understanding.

DO you think all the 7 embodiements are all town, and all in the game?

Or do you think some of them are scum safelcaims?

Do you think scum are all goons, or have PRs themselves?

No and no

Can't be more than one fake claim (SpyreX is pretty darn town).

Probably power roles.

Preview: That logic only works if town can't overthink (which is the case with Faraday) or can never be wrong.

[Empking]

I've just remembered that AGM was much townier Day One and Two. He's still definitely not the CR though (And I'd say that even if BM wasn't the obv CR.)

[Empking]

Scum misfire u lose???

Cults gonna need 50%+.

U can count town AND SCUM NUMBERS against them.

Empking is the logic dodger.

How?

[Empking]

How what?

How am I the logic dodger?

Ben: If you think there are four Cultists today then worst case scenario tomorrow has them at 5 out of 11.

[Empking]

You're logic fail stems from my inability to be anything other than town right now.

How? By counterclaiming the Cult Cop an act you could've predicted nobody would hold against you?

[Empking]

FUCK EMPKING.... you wanna talk worse case scenario.

Whhat happens when u lynch TOWN today????

That depends on what scum does.

[Empking]

Yeah, we get it, vezok is confirmed mafia. zzzzzz let's try lynch the cult leader.

[Empking]

Boo I wasn't recruited....

Towns the minority

We were the minority yesterday.

Vote: Benmage

[Empking]

CES does massclaim help us here?

And yeah, vezok lynch was bad and probably filled with cult.

+1

But Benmage does have a name y'know.

[Empking]

Newsflash if scum outnumber town, town can never win.

Is that true?

[Empking]

Magua's question makes me feel warmer and fuzzier about magua some.

Sure we can do this:

Lynches everywhere!

From here! To There!

Why?

U

naware!

With glee!

N

ow share!

Unvote, Vote: Lynchmepls

R

eally tired and couldn't think of more sing song.

[Empking]

Slightly relatedly, my gut is telling me that Empking is mafia, not cult; there's too many similarities between his reads and AlmasterGM's reads D2, which reads more as "buddying," which I'm not seeing between a recruiter and a soon-to-be-recruit.

That's logical. Shame you had to ruin it with a random mafia accusation

[Empking]

That's logical. Shame you had to ruin it with a random mafia accusation

You asking "Is this true?" in regards to a mafia theory question is incredibly out of character for you.

Why?

CES: What's interesting about that?

[Empking]

Waiting for a consensus - Crone

[Empking]

No I'm the Crone plus I was waiting for a consensus.

[Empking]

You should full-claim and point to breadcrums as far as I'm concerned.

Watcher but I don't crumb. (Though I've probably got a post where I have a capital C and capital W )

N1 - LB - Nobody
N2 - DGB - Nobody
N3 - SpyreX - Nobody
N4 - LB - Nobody

[Empking]

Why Spy?

He looked like a good recruit target.

[Empking]

Empking why didn't you watch Thor/locke Night 3 after they'd been cleared of being cult and thus probable recruits?

To be honest I hadn't fully digested the mess that was the end of D3 until the beginning of D4.

[Empking]

N4 to me looked like the best by miles as a cult target.

[Empking]

Quite possibly LB was the best recruit option, but the kill was far more predictable, I would think.

But the cult is more dangerous. I also disagree on the kill being more obvious. If he wasn't killed last night then he'd probably been killed today.

[Empking]

Not to mention that even if you catch the recruiter, you still have a credibility problem.

If I catch a Mafioso I still have a credibility problem.

[Empking]

CES:
Cult Recruitor: Benmage
Cult: Thor & Magua
Mafia: Nexus (depends on who claims the seventh PR though) Two of: Bogre, Hindu & You.

[Empking]

Huh, you're right. I didn't remember it going down like that at all, he even goes as far as to say he's definite scum but not cult in one post.

When?

CES: I can't talk with such a general thing. By Day 4, Magua was in a position where all the energy put on him was dead and had been fizzled. That coupled with his competence makes him an ideal night 4 recruit especially now we know AGM was a recruit.

Edit: Just saw the VC. Magua probably isn't cult then.

[Empking]

^not even trying

Spyre, Emp is my main suspect for CR and the lack of confirmability of his claim is perfectly compatible with that scenario.

CES: I can't talk with such a general thing. By Day 4, Magua was in a position where all the energy put on him was dead and had been fizzled. That coupled with his competence makes him an ideal night 4 recruit especially now we know AGM was a recruit.

So what you're saying is "I had him as cult before, so I just plunked him there on the list without thinking."

TBH, yeah.

There's a lot of support for the notion that cult started off with a non-CR. Wouldn't Magua make most sense as that role in your worldview?

Magua is not cult with the CR Benmage. So...no.

CES: How do you explain my quick change of thought wrt BM's claim other than my remembering (and checking) my N1 target?

[Empking]

Magua: Does that unvote follow from the second line in a way I don't understand or are they unrelated?

[Empking]

@SpyreX, @Empking:

Do you think scum/cult have Embodiment safeclaims?

I'm leaning towards cults yes and scum no.

[Empking]

@SpyreX, @Empking:

Do you think scum/cult have Embodiment safeclaims?

I'm leaning towards cults yes and scum no.

Sorry mixed them up.

I think the Stranger is a scum falseclaim and cult lack a safeclaim.

[Empking]

I bet the dead qt know who the scum are!

They're probably screaming "Lynch Benmage!!!"

[Empking]

Did Empking even answer if he's unrecruitable??

STOP FUCKING ASKING THIS QUESTION

If he's scum or cult, the answer is worthless.
If he's town, it's in his best interest to lie.

No matter what he says, it doesn't matter because it won't be believed.

This sums up my feeling exactly.

But BM's argument that 1 for 1 is better than 1 for 0 is moronic.

[Empking]

Magua, I think you've got the blinkers on where everything looks scummy

Empking is making pretty big gaps in his arguments ("I think Benmage is the Cult Recruiter and Magua is a recruit", and when it's pointed out I'm voting for Benmage, he's "Nevermind, didn't see the vote count" which just feels so off to me.

Like with this. Which player pointed out that you were voting BM?

And on the Vezok issue I made it clear that I thought vezok was scum and I wanted to lynch cult, I just wasn't posting much in general at that point.

[Empking]

Empking posted, and....that's it?

Wow.

Like with this. Which player pointed out that you were voting BM?

No one pointed out I was voting Ben, but CES questions you about me being cult.

As for seeing everything as scummy -- I've managed to convince myself a number of people aren't scum,

Which is part and parcel with being blinkered.

[Empking]

People think I'm the CR who recruiteed the real Watcher right? (I know CSL (and by association LB) thinks that)

Why do people think I stole somebody else's claim. I wasn't in a position where I needed to fake a claim let alone in the manner I accidently did (to be honest I still don't get how people worked it out, I'd've said what I said even if I was the Stranger). Why wouldn't I giove the claim to one of the stronger players or a player to whom there was no need to hide in the background.

Also, why didf I recruit AGM? A player I was already linked to based on our early game concurrance of opinion.

[Empking]

SpyreX, if you unvote you can
1. Make me happy
2. Get more cult on the wagon

[Empking]

no seriously who's the fucking cult recruiter, but that emp post doesn't particularly read town, it's like a lolitrollu mafia claim but idk.

I hate being run up because whatever my alignment they accuse me of not looking particulary town. I prefer negotiation over AtE or self-meta.

[Empking]

I prefer negotiation over AtE or self-meta.

"Negotiation" is an odd word to use in conjunction with avoiding a lynch, isn't it?

Maybe? Can't think of anything this.

[Empking]

What can you "negotiate"?

Yeah negotiate was probably the wrong word.

[Empking]

Did we MC BTW?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: CES

[Empking]

Mod: I moved my vote.

[Empking]

Cult can win just by treading water.

[Empking]

Though I'm 90% sure this would be "a disgrace to mafia everywhere" moment. I'm a Mafia Watcher.

[Empking]

Thank fucking god.

Share your real reports if you have anything of interest, but I'm assuming for now that some of them are fake.

They were 100% true

I sheep your vote now.

VOTE: Benmage

Unvote

Vote: Benmage[/b]

[Empking]

It was our fakeclaim.

Unvote

Vote: Benmage

[Empking]

I'm unsure what to do.

[Empking]

Let's start with who you watched and killed.

What do you think about there being two kills?

[Empking]

Very unsure. We've had our vig PR (SaintKerrigan), and our dayvig PR (Espeonage). I don't see room for another. Nor do I see room for a serial killer.

That pretty much leaves one of SpyreX or Espeonage lying about their role. I really don't see room for an eighth PR, and I don't see cult having some sort of really-delayed vig activity going on.

Also pretty goddamn certain at this point that Town can't win, which makes me unbelievably sad.

Now, your watch and your kill.

Saw Espeonage kill LB. I'm keeping who we killed to myself though so Ha.

[Empking]

<_<

>_>

Was it...*drumroll* CES?

Looking over CES' ISO, pretty sure he tracked both Nexus and I (specific evidence). Not Thor and not Locke and not Empking leaves Hinduragi, SpyreX, and Espeonage.

I thought I just said it was Espeonage.

[Empking]

I was talking about recruiter.

Yes but he's a lying power role and not mafia. That's the cult recruitor.

[Empking]

You think that the cult recruiter can kill?

Yes. That's what the evidence seems to suggest.

[Empking]

Gotta be a recruited Vig or something, yeah? No way LB was a pro town kill effort.

1. I highly doubt that there are more than the seven.
2. Esp-e-o-nage

[Empking]

@Empking:

Do you have daytalk?

Let me talk to my buddies about whether I should answer that.

Thor: Espeonage is not what he claimed. He's not on my side. Therefore he is cult. A cult recruit would be honest about the role (maybe excepting recruitability).

[Empking]

It being a fakeclaim is problematic, because that daykill had to come from somewhere.

A point of balance based on their being 9 unrecruitables. Plus it would protect him from a D1 lynch.

Edit: How was it sarcastic? Yes we have daytalk.

[Empking]

I disagree with any plan that involves me getting lynched. I'm the only useful power role still alive.

[Empking]

Let's No Lynch.

[Empking]

We have a claimed SK and a claimed scum - why would we want to no lynch?

Numbers.

Let's say 3 scum, 3 cult, 2 townies. We No lynch and we're on 3 scum, 3 cult, 1 townie. We No Lynch and we're on 3 scum, 3 cult. Everybody wins!

[Empking]

@Emp - fire, go find one.

Cult. You can't argue with the numbers (plus you pretending to buy the most nerfed SK ever that stole most (but not the important bit) from SpyreX.)

[Empking]

Question: Can somebody explain why people think the ermbodiment of Warrior is a SK?
Can the recruitable townie explain why they're opposed to the only plan that allows them to win?

[Empking]

Espeonage is cult leader. 100%.

[Empking]

I'm asking because you were clearly wrong about Benmage.

1. He copied SpyreX with his claim but got it wrong.
2. A three-shot SK, really?

[Empking]

So him lying means he has to be CR and not a recruit?

Y

[Empking]

....Why can't he be a recruit?

Becausde scum recruiting a three-shot vig is ridiculiously swingy.

[Empking]

I just realized I wasn't voting Esp.

Vote: Esp

[Empking]

@Hindu - you're voting the same way a self confessed scum is voting - what does this tell you?

Thaty Esp is cult.

[Empking]

I'm so happy to have this conversation with you, Hinduragi.

I will happily consider your opinion if you can do one of two things for me:
1) Convince me that there's not 3 mafia alive right now, or
2) Convince me how, with three mafia alive, we can win while *not* lynching mafia today.

No Lynch

[Empking]

Unless we force the Cult to kill me. We know they can kill. We can deduce they're forced to kill. So we should presume they will kill.

[Empking]

Unless we force the Cult to kill me. We know they can kill. We can deduce they're forced to kill. So we should presume they will kill.

Your theory, while fascinating, fails to address why Lost Butterfly was killed in preference to you.

Yes I know that when I'm scum I always target the next day's lynch victim.

[Empking]

Esp is probably worthless town. YES

[snip]
I DONT want Empking (scum), Esp (town), magua (town) lynched. Anyone else I could easily be persuaded.

Let's see your third name.

[Empking]

My third name?

What the hell are you even going on about?

I was talking to Magua.

[Empking]

Er?

Then why'd you quote SpyreX?

By third name, I assume you're referring to who I think the third scum is? I think it's either Thor or Nexus. Nexus may be cleared by tracker report if Locke flips some PR role (and it's all moot if Locke isn't scum), so I'm not really bothering to differentiate them right now.

You said, why didn't Cult Recruitor Espeonage kill SpyreX. That quote answered that question. He's a "useful idiot".

So who is the third person Espeonage would've killed over LB.

Edit: They won't do it

[Empking]

So Magua. Who is the better player for CR Espeonage to kill (other than the next day's mislynch and the player convinced he was town.)?

[Empking]

@Emp - do you guys have a roleblocker, or are they all goons besides you?

Which answer means I get to live?

[Empking]

Nezus: Don't go breaking my heart.