Mini 1310: I Got My Eye On You Mafia (Game Over!)

[Amrun]

Okay, I exist. Let me read.

[Amrun]

Oh holy God. I thought this game was 8 pages... but it's almost 30! False advertising. :/

Going to take longer than I thought...

Mod, can we get the OP updated?

No, I'm a lazy-ass bastard who wants to make you suffer

Just kidding, I'll fix up the first couple of posts after work.

[Amrun]

@Om, why do you think Lucky is scum?

It's a gut read.

Also welcome Amrun
Please actually

play

this time.

Seriously, fucking bite me.

I totally predicted I would have a rash of deaths in my family.

[Amrun]

Don't be so bitter because my team stomped yours.

Nearly done with the archives, though, post incoming soon.

[Amrun]

Graveyard means nothing. It's much easier to call scum once you're dead. But this is pointless and I'd like to drop it.

[Amrun]

I'm going to quickly skim through the archive and note any significant comments or questions in this post. PREPARE FOR INFODUMP!

-Early townread on Glass.

-Early scumread on lucky; he asks for others' opinions instead of giving his own. Notably, I also didn't like the solitary post I read of his above my last two posts. It's very forced-sounding. He's putting false pressure on me. "You better have something good to say!" It's just awkward.

-Oh God ... lucky, y u so scum? He's very jumpy on page 3 and full of mudslinging. His suspects are the three people voting him. Wow, great case! But ... no vote.

-Early Lopsy townread.

-Ergh, lucky, deflection much?

-Early vijay townread.

-Not good vibes from IceGuy so far.

-

All you've been doing is asking questions of others and attacking people instead of actually trying to find scum.

I had to quote this to go LOLWAT? What do you think one does to find scum, malthusis? Hahaha. I find luckyjt scummy, but if he isn't scum, bet is on malthusis. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive, either; this could be scum/scum. Bit of a coaching vibe.

-

You guys are not playing smart attempting to lynch someone who is posting their opinions on the round so far.

Yeah, that's scum perspective right there.

-However, malthusis' follow-up makes a lot more sense and I agree with him ... Less suspicious, but not feeling town for sure.

-lucky's defense is baaaaaad... So bad. It's full of deflection - "Who IS scumhunting? Was THAT guy's vote OMGUS?" and scummy cautiousness. "I can't be held accountable because I haven't voted yet!" Still, I sort of get the vibe that he believes this rubbish, so I'm a little conflicted.

-Mist Beauty seems townish so far, but strangely quiet.

-vijay strongest townread so far.

-iStark unvotes ActionDan because he isn't active, but votes IceGuy ... because he isn't active? WUT? Scummy.

-Ew, wtf, vijay, did you really try to hammer town on page 5 with no claim? Bye bye townread ... at least a little. This is too blatant for scum, but ew.

-I really don't like IceGuy. He's avoiding the game entirely and commenting on NOTHING of importance, which is really unlike him. He also says that one of lucky's attackers are scum, which heavily implies that he thinks lucky is town, but he is hesitant to say so, saying only that "he doesn't have a scum read" on him. He doesn't even say who on lucky's wagon is scum. Def scummy.

-Also, fail fakehammer, vijay, but you're still town.

-iStark not at all committed to his votes. hate it.

-Glass so town.

-Agree with malthusis; Rylai is lurker scummy.

-Feeling better about malthusis.

-Otto Von Clork p. bad. Idk if dumb or scum.

-IceGuy continues to active lurk...

-Early townread on ActionDan, despite totally disagreeing with him.

-Where the hell is DeltaWave?

-Otto's subsequent post isn't nearly as bad as the other.

-iStark is nervous to vote.

-What a hypocrite, iceguy. DW has been just about as active as yourself.

-Lopsy makes a great point about this exchange. IceGuy comes off the worst, though DW STILL not making any signficant comment about someone's alignment (or even voting IceGuy) isn't great either.

-IceGuy's "case" on kondi ... He doesn't even pretend to think kondi is scum. He just wants to get rid of kondi. That's not town motivated.

-Finally getting some weak Rylai townvibes. He demanded Glass' vote ... on HIM. That reads as genuine and not scum-motivated.

-Glass town decreasing. She was voting vijay, then she agrees with him, but doesn't vote with him... what.

-Once again ... Otto von Clark's analysis is soundly terrible, but not necessarily scummy. Anti-town and scummy are not at all interchangeable.

-

It reminds me of math camp, where we called every problem "impossible" before we solved it and "trivial" afterwards.

Just wanted to say that this is cute.

-IceGuy continues to scum up the thread. Why would his paraphrase be a reason to vote him? Don't you think a fakeclaim would be more standard, instead of going out on a limb like that?

-Ew, people are going along with it. Terrible reasoning.

-malthusis push on DW is the worst.

-iStark supporting the wagon but not voting is supah scummy. He's fencesitting hard. Finally votes after IceGuy's soft claim... Opportunistic.

-Rylai more town.

-Glass more town.

-MB more town.

-IceGuy ... I don't know. I don't like what he's up to but it's making me waver a bit.

End of archived posts reads:

Townish (no particular order): Glass, DW, ActionDan, MistBeauty, Rylai, Lopsy, v2v

Scummy (no particular order): lucky, IceGuy, iStark

Null: malthusis, Otto

[Amrun]

Now, on to more recent things...

-Lucky's [post]17[/post]: Oh, really ... Your totally outdated and stupid reasons, from ages ago before the crash? You've avoided commenting on a lot.

-For the love of GOD, stop discussing investigations.

-ActionDan's (weak) town read is now reversed due mostly to the fact that he admitted to purposefully watching the thread and lurking. Feeling out the momentum of the crowd? Definitely scummy.

-lucky continues to be scummy.

-Don't like Glass' contradiction: ActionDan is scum buddying up to weak town Rylai, but Rylai is scum. What? Townread diminished.

-IceGuy continues to active lurk. Not even properly pushing a wagon as he should if what he hinted earlier was true.

-Korlash's fluff is annoying but probably not relevant to alignment. His reasoning on vijay is sound, though I don't agree that v2v is ultimately scum. +town

-Lucky is only interested in coasting and pushing his chosen mislynch.

-Ergh, dislike bbmolla's catch up. It's just so ... nothing. Followed by a bad bandwagon vote with poor reasoning.

-Blegh, Korlash's arguments for lynching DW are really fucking terrible. So terrible that I retract my townvibes. It's even stupider because it's "hypothetical" and riding the wave of opportunity with no real commitment.

-Lucky [post]122[/post]. Where the hell does the vijay suspicion come from? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. He's setting up on opportunistic wagon jump.

-DW town.

-Lopsy's [post]132[/post] is spot fucking on.

-Korlash's response is scummy. "If you call me scum based on speculation, I'll call YOU scum based on speculation." "Grow up and vote who I want you to vote." It's manipulative, illogical, and one of the scummiest posts all game.

-iStark getting marginally better. Post [post]142[/post] reads genuine.

Going to process who replaced whom and make a consolidated reads post.

p-edit: Urgh, how can my vote be on DeltaWave? I feel dirty.

Unvote

[Amrun]

OKAY

Top three scumreads: luckyjt, IceGuy, Korlash


Top three townreads: Lopsy, DW, iStark


That's just how I'm feeling right now. The biggest movement between the old thread and the new is iStark. I've liked basically all of his posting in the new thread and it feels real to me. I no longer think he's scum and think some of the things I found scummy are due to a combination of newness and language barrier. (What is your first language, iStark?)


VOTE: luckyjt



CSL, why do you think DeltaWave is scum? I think it's clear beyond clarity that he is not.

[Amrun]

Okay. I've read the threads now. If anyone needs death, it's DeltaWave.

Unvote; Vote: Delta

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

No comprende. This is the bottom of page 8.

[Amrun]

I have never stooped so low as to assume I knew shit about his role. If you're going to resort to calling me scum based on pure speculation, well... Just be glad I have no intention of turning it around on you because it wouldn't be hard.

This was about Lopsy. You didn't EXACTLY call her scum -- (I misremembered when paraphrasing) -- but the threat isn't very veiled. There are more of them in the post in question. You are extremely condescending to her, undermining her arguments on faulty basis, and implying that if she was

smart

and

mature,

she would vote with you. The veiled threat is this: if you do what I want, I won't attack you, but I COULD, so you better watch your step!

There's absolutely no town motivation in that.

[Amrun]

That bolded post, I said I had suspicions on glass and kondi then they voted for me not the way you said it. This argument may only work on Vijay but Ive explained my reasoning to death as to why I believe he was scum.Also very contradictory in two of your posts. First you say Vijay is leaning scum, then you say "Also, fail fakehammer, vijay, but you're still town." And someone explained that if Vijay is scum and tried the fakehammer he was trying to get us to believe Kondi was town.Finally the reason I said I wanted to hear from you is because you replaced Kondi my highest suspect as scum.

You only suspected people that suspected you, and for poor or non-existent reasoning ... and didn't vote them! Then later, you tried to deflect suspicion because "you hadn't even voted them."

I did not say vijay was leaning scum. Town members can make stupid moves -- and fakehammering in and of itself isn't fail, I just think that execution was poor.

And that doesn't make any fucking sense. Why would scum fakehammer to convince town that kondi is town? Scum don't want to convince town that townies are TOWN; they want to MISLYNCH town.

As for the last, yes, fair enough, and I realized that as I read along.


BBmolla, you can't just say someone was obvtown early day 1 and give no reasoning. Clearly, very few people, if any, agree with that assessment.

[Amrun]

None of that says why he is town.

[Amrun]

Iceguy is closer to confirmed town then Delta is... To actually say this and not be joking is just further reason you should die today...Why would scum lie just to mislynch a freaking miller? WHY? Not a good trade for him.

WHAT IS THIS

THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF SENSE

[Amrun]

Why would any scum say what Iceguy did in order to mislynch a MILLER on day one? Why?

That could be valid, but there are some of reason scum would do that. Assuming optimal play for all scum at all times is stupid. a) He was being viewed as confirmed town. b) IceGuy has been incredibly lazy, regardless of alignment. c) He may not have thought it through properly.

Either way, it doesn't make DeltaWave scum as you seem to suggest.

[Amrun]

That could be valid, but there are some of reason scum would do that. Assuming optimal play for all scum at all times is stupid. a) He was being viewed as confirmed town. b) IceGuy has been incredibly lazy, regardless of alignment. c) He may not have thought it through properly.

Either way, it doesn't make DeltaWave scum as you seem to suggest.

Where did I ever suggest he was scum? I said quite clearly it allowed for both of them to be town. The fact remains that I feel Iceguy is MORE town then Delta due entirely to timing, but that doesn't mean either have to be scum.

As far as your reasons go, none of them are particularly strong and hardly anything to base a scum read on, as V2V has. So back to my original point, V2V is scum. ^_^ Everything works out!

I don't agree.

[Amrun]

So very happy to welcome you, RD.

[Amrun]

unvote

I can confirm that im a miller varient role. Its not called "miller" though will not say real role because it reveals what if any additional abilities I have, and like DW said it specifically investigates as mafia goon which is probably important. Was an offshoot miller last time and it was based off a specific hidden mechanic. Think he is stupid for claiming miller, but DW is a bit of a derp to start. One of those who is just useful enough to stop everypony from policy lynching him.

Speaking of policy lynches hi kondi and CSL.

Other important points

1) We are not all targeting the same player with our roles. That would be derpy as it allows for maximum scum manipulation
2) Tomorrow you hypo cop and gunsmith.
3) AD is town, and I think Glass is town, vijay just reads town also.
4) CSL and malthus are good scum picks. Ice isnt bad. All the wagons going on suck.

Vote CSL

Explain your hop to DW wagon. Case... tomorrow maybe? Will have to work around a meeting to get something up of substance.

Mostly like your reads, except for the obvious lack of lucky except to say that the ongoing wagons suck. Why does the lucky wagon suck?

(Also, who did csl replace again?)

[Amrun]

So you're conflicted about him ... but the wagon "sucks?" Doesn't add up.

I could see CSL being scum, but I picked up some town things from RC so I'm not overly concerned at this point. The DW wave thing was weird and I'm still processing it. i agree something is off there (and i pointed it out so yeah).

[Amrun]

VOTE: CSL

I don't buy it. He starts to get a bit of pressure and then replaces out? No. Power lynch.

[Amrun]

Well yeah.

[Amrun]

I don't buy it. He starts to get a bit of pressure and then replaces out? No. Power lynch.

Does he have a history of doing this? Otherwise, this just seems like a dick move on your part. Has he replaced out of any other games?

He replaces out a lot, but how would that be a "dick move?" lol

[Amrun]

Why the vote, IceGuy?

[Amrun]

And yet CSL has not been replaced yet.

And yet you supposedly have role information that suggests DW/RD is scum.

No.

You are being unforgivably lazy and I don't see many other explanations besides being scum.

[Amrun]

I see what you're saying, but we don't know HIS role. Maybe he is a scum role that could counter your role somehow.

And he refused to commit to it.

[Amrun]

Ew, gross, stark and lopsy are town.

So was glass, though.

[Amrun]

It's fucking deadline. Let's just spare a replacement and lynch CSL, who is most likely scum anyway.

I would prefer to lynch lucky, since he's here, if we can get support. I don't really see that happening.

I would lynch Korlash, malthusis, or IceGuy, but I don't see that happening either.

The only other things put forth are Lopsy (on v/la) and v2v (I think he's town).

Deadline is looming. I hate to lynch someone without a claim, but come the fuck on. Something has got to give.

[Amrun]

Oh jesus god I seemed to have missed a page or 2 or like 5. I had my post page loaded before I took a nap and wasn't paying attention.

h/o

[Amrun]

Cancel replacement request. The potential disease that has been plaguing my family has vanished!

Amrun, you have crossed the line with what you have said. I did not request replacement because I was being pressured. I would not even

DARE

to lie about real life issues.

Yeah, by the way, I didn't say you didn't have an illness or whatever. Replacing out of one game while continuing to post all over the site doesn't look great. And what I meant was your decision to immediately replace out instead of v/la or similar was telling, not that you didn't have an illness.

[Amrun]

What the fuck is this deadline wagon. What a crock of shit.

I'm a power role and I'm not even going to tell you which one except you would be pretty dumb to lynch it.

I don't even care, though. I replaced into this game to do my duty to the site. Seeing kondi still posting elsewhere and joining other games pisses me off so his slot probably deserves to die despite being town.

[Amrun]

I'm p sure you don't have the time to take 24 hours for that.

[Amrun]

VOTE: lucky

Aw, snap, CSL is town.

[Amrun]

Why? Why wouldn't he feel confident since he has a PR?

That seems like a pretty obvious kondi move to me.

I'm not opposed to a malthusis wagon ... you first!

[Amrun]

I'm not saying it wasn't a STUPID move. Jesus Christ. You all severely overestimate him.

[Amrun]

You don't what, overestimate him? What are you even talking about?

I don't really give a crap. It's your loss. I didn't join this game because I was super excited to play it.

At this point, even if I'm not lynched, I'll be night killed.

[Amrun]

Scum that would kill IceGuy is the stupidest scum in the world, if in fact IceGuy is town, which he very well may not be.

[Amrun]

You definitely do overestimate him. He is definitely one of the worst players I've ever seen on the site, compounded by his perpetual flaking.

If I get threatened with a hammer, I'll claim my full role, but not before. It's too premature, yet.

[Amrun]

Chill, chill, I was afk.

I'm a cop.

Not really surprising, giving the flavor - and that counterclaim stuff is bs, because I am almost certainly not the only one.

Interestingly, though, my role pm never mentions the word "cop." I seem to have no role name at all. It describes the abilities of a cop pretty dead on, though.

It doesn't say, so I'm assuming sanity not guaranteed.

[Amrun]

Mafia or Not Mafia.

[Amrun]

VOTE: malthusis

I think this wagon is more viable than lucky's.

[Amrun]

Why not malthusis?

[Amrun]

I won't pretend he's my top scumread, but here's what he's got going for him:

-He's viable and it's deadline
-He's not a town read

[Amrun]

Looking through my notes, though, his pushes on luckyjt and DeltaWave were particularly terrible and scummy.

p-edit: I think vijay is town, so no.

[Amrun]

And vijay isn't viable, either.

[Amrun]

VOTE: IceGuy

I re-read overnight and decided I was wrong about Korlash. He's town; we just don't see eye to eye.

[Amrun]

LOL I forgot I had to claim yesterday.

Result:

Korlash is Not Mafia

Also, very unlikely that scum has a roleblocker, which I think is surprising.

I'll ask the mod what my role name is.

[Amrun]

Because I suspected him? Adurr?

Why WOULDN'T I suspect Korlash?

I suspected him and he strikes me as a fairly unreadable player.

If RD wasn't a miller thing, I would have checked him out of pure theoretical strategy.

[Amrun]

I read him as scum. If you check my ISO, my suspicion of him is consistent.

He is an older player whose skill level I am unsure of, but older join date players tend to intimidate some newbies into town reads, even if unwarranted. His particular posting style seems to relish in fluff and AtE, which can be a difficult posting style to read.

I was going for a guilty, though.

[Amrun]

LOL I forgot I had to claim yesterday.

Result:

Korlash is Not Mafia

Also, very unlikely that scum has a roleblocker, which I think is surprising.

I'll ask the mod what my role name is.

Explain.

Also, why Korlash over Iceguy? whom you are voting now.

IceGuy was going to get negative attention no matter what because he's been playing like absolute shit.

I was one of the very few (and perhaps the only one) suspecting Korlash, so if he was actually scum, I was going to have a much harder time getting him lynched without a guilty.

If scum had a roleblocker, they would almost definitely have roleblocked me last night. They know that I am a cop because they know I'm not scum, and the likelihood of me fakeclaiming as town is very low. So they know that I have the potential to fuck them over (as both guilties and innocents are very bad for scum).

It's not 100% sure they don't have a roleblocker, because there are other interfering abilities (redirect, for example), and other possibilities of things that interfered with their roleblocker. They also COULD have blocked RainbowDash or someone else, but I think that would be dumb. But maybe the scum are dumb. idk.

Still, despite outside chances of uncommon roles/weird role interaction/super dumb scum, it is unlikely that there's a roleblocker on scum side. Me turning up with no result today could easily have led to my lynch, which is a possibility that would be very hard to pass up for scum.

[Amrun]

Voided responded. Cop.

He also pointed out that I missed it in the original PM. It was in the quote name bit and I missed it completely. Oh well.

[Amrun]

Yes you do know... In order to argue Iceguy as scum you had to say he was dumb since it made no sense for scum to claim in order to mislynch a miller... :\

No, because IceGuy, even if scum, is definitely not the ONLY scum.

That being said, IceGuy is actually very smart and has an extremely good theoretical mind. I know for a fact he is not ACTUALLY dumb. However, any scum - especially uninvested scum, like IceGuy would necessarily be - can make a bad play and be stuck with it.

Also bolstering my IceGuy suspicion is KNOWING that he has a really good mind for theory and gamebreaking and that he STILL thinks his "everyone investigate the same person" thing is a good idea.

I specifically did NOT mention it yesterday because I didn't want to clue scum in to my role - and then, I didn't want to give scum clues as to my target. Let them think I was investigating whatever stupid thing IceGuy wanted. That could only benefit me.

However, today, I can say how dumb that plan is and how sure I am that IceGuy would know it was dumb if he was town and not pushing dumb theories on purpose.

[Amrun]

From everything you've told us, RD, you are NOT a miller. You are some other will with a functionality similar to a miller.

Last night's flip was a simple, common role name, but good job ignoring that.

[Amrun]

*some other role

Weird typo...

[Amrun]

@IceGuy: A voyeur is a nerfed watcher. Wiki article: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur

@Korlash: Who is QuestionVerb?

[Amrun]

Funny how both Questionverb and omnomnom's reasons and explanations for iceguy seem so closely identical...

Then you're on crack.

[Amrun]

Okay, to clarify: how are they in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER similar?

[Amrun]

IceGuy was going to get negative attention no matter what because he's been playing like absolute shit.

I must confess I'm not really invested/content with this game, especially with the rollback.

Saying "Korlash is town" because of the result is naive. Clearing/lynching anybody because of a result is naive in this game, actually.

We've already seen two miller claims, at least one of them is genuine. There's probably a bunch of investigation-fucking roles like framer, miller, godfather, ninja, etc.

Also bolstering my IceGuy suspicion is KNOWING that he has a really good mind for theory and gamebreaking and that he STILL thinks his "everyone investigate the same person" thing is a good idea.

Just because you don't see the reason for it doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea.

If somebody is scum here, it's OmNom. He's been jumping all over wagons yesterday, never missing a chance to rolefish. I'm also sure at least one of DW/RD fakeclaimed miller, but with the flips I'm not confident any more that it's DW.

@Mod: please update OP with current player list and replacements. I've lost track of who replaced whom.

I already stated the possibility of multiple sanities before. Until I see otherwise, I'm operating under the assumption that I am sane.

I see the point of your plan, but I disagree that it's a good idea.

[Amrun]

No, they don't.

You're ridiculous.

Also, we haven't had two miller claims. You're so out of touch.

[Amrun]

I was trying to entice scum into killing me yesterday, but it was unlikely considering I'm still a potential mislynch.

[Amrun]

I do think we should hypocop. I kind of glazed over that.

It's smart. Let's do it.

Korlash, I only tried to do it after I got to L-1. It's why I didn't full claim immediately (and said the stuff about town would be so dumb to lynch met etc) and why I said I would be killed overnight, etc. It was unlikely to ever happen, but I tried.

[Amrun]

A hypo claim is you claiming cop results even if you're not a cop. That way, after a cop dies, we can see his results each night, but (s)he's not outing himself.

[Amrun]

Everyone hypoclaims in his or her next post.

[Amrun]

The part about trying to get nightkilled is also bullshit. She was at L-1 before she even suggested we would be idiots for lynching her, so saying it was "after" that is ridiculous. Plus, in post 423 she refuses to full claim until threatened with a hammer. Why? if she wanted to be nightkilled, she should have full claimed immediately thus ensuring the scum wanted to kill her. Instead, she stalls during deadline while at L-1 arguing over a hammer threat. Ridiculous.

Despite the fact that everything about my claim adds up, what the HELL are you saying in this bit?

I said I decided to try for that after I got to L-1, and you say ... "she was at L-1 before she started doing that!" Um, yes. That is what I JUST SAID.

I KNOW cop isn't as valuable in this game as it might be in other games and that's WHY I didn't want to fullclaim immediately. How would fullclaiming immediately ensure the scum wanted to kill me? That does not make sense.

[Amrun]

NOT full claiming makes you a higher mislynch probability which reduces the chance anyone would kill you

Disagree.

[Amrun]

I do think half claiming by Amrun in this particular setup was not a good idea, we are lucky that no one actually counter claimed it and outed themselves in midst of the confusion.

Half claiming to avoid someone counterclaiming was the WHOLE IDEA.

I was worried there would be multiple cops and that someone would stupidly counterclaim, not realizing that there could easily be more than one town cop in this set up.

However, the voyeur flip suggests we might just have varying informative roles.

[Amrun]

Still don't like the idea of you checking obvious Town read Korlash over Ice who was probable lynch target for today ( And even you admit to that).

How could someone have counterclaimed a half claim? That's literally impossible.

And you clearly don't agree with me on optimal cop strategy.

Korlash wasn't a town read for ME.

[Amrun]

Still don't like the idea of you checking obvious Town read Korlash over Ice who was probable lynch target for today ( And even you admit to that).

How could someone have counterclaimed a half claim? That's literally impossible.

And you clearly don't agree with me on optimal cop strategy.

Korlash wasn't a town read for ME.

Well you did say already that Krlash was not a town read for you, but I am more amazed at the fact that I was your top scum pick (since you had a vote on me) and ended up not using an investigation on me. But for now I will believe your cop claim.

I considered investigating you. However, several people could probably be convinced to vote you, whereas NO ONE seemed to be interested in voting Korlash except for me. I needed a guilty to lynch him - but he appears to be innocent, and that's useful as well.

Still don't like the idea of you checking obvious Town read Korlash over Ice who was probable lynch target for today ( And even you admit to that).

How could someone have counterclaimed a half claim? That's literally impossible.

And you clearly don't agree with me on optimal cop strategy.

Korlash wasn't a town read for ME.

I'm talking about this.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3947973

Saying ''I'm cop'' is half ass in this situation unlike normal games.

It could be easily counterclaimed by anyone who had cop role and didn't think trough before posting since your claim lacked clarity needed to it considering flavor.

That's still hypothesis since it actually never came true but it wasn't justified.

But that's not all that I said. The rest of my post was expanding on that claim. o.O What?

[Amrun]

Of course it was an obvious cop breadcrumb. It was supposed to be obvious. I forgot I had claimed already, but that's just a brainfart. It happens to me sometimes. I think it happens to everyone.

I non-full claimed for SEVERAL reasons: I didn't want any premature counterclaims, which would probably come from town, AND I wanted to try and entice the scum into nightkilling me. And, only being at L-1 with no threat of a hammer, I wanted to avoid full claiming if at all possible.

I wasn't vague at all. My claim was extremely specific. And your argument that I forgot I had already fakeclaimed and conveniently breadcrumbed the role I had forgotten I fakeclaimed makes NO sense.

[Amrun]

@Amrum, Your rest of the post said ''It's classic cop role'' or something & answers to the RD's question with nothing real to catch on. I think that's half ass.

That isn't actually true at all. Did you even read the post?

[Amrun]

Yes, the bold does basically say that. But there are OTHER sentences, including the italicized sentence, that are specific. Having no role name is very specific (though I just turned out to be an idiot on that front). I then go on to say how exactly I get my results (Mafia or Not Mafia), which is different from the standard result. What you're saying is in direct opposition of the things that actually transpired in the thread.

[Amrun]

Of course it was an obvious cop breadcrumb. It was supposed to be obvious.

What's the point of an obvious cop breadcrumb when you can just claim the results?

I didn't want any premature counterclaims, which would probably come from town, AND I wanted to try and entice the scum into nightkilling me.

How would a non-full claim entice scum into nightkilling you when a full claim would?

And why did you want to entice scum into nightkilling you, seeing as you claim to be a Cop which is probably the most valuable investigative role?

-There's no point, DUH. I forgot I could just claim results.

-In this game, cop is far less valuable than usual. I was predicting a Dethy-like set-up in which there were multiple sanities of cops; therefore, scum would be less likely to kill a cop and town would be less likely to stop lynching a cop.

-Re: above, a night kill is better than a mislynch.

[Amrun]

I had a town read on Glass. I don't like this.

[Amrun]

Had because Glass is no longer here. Om of the Nom is null to me. I felt fairly confident in Glass-town, though. A couple of things I noted I didn't like, but overall, I felt town.

[Amrun]

-Early townread on Glass.

...

-Glass so town.

...

-Glass town decreasing. She was voting vijay, then she agrees with him, but doesn't vote with him... what.

...

-Glass more town.

...

End of archived posts reads:

Townish (no particular order): Glass, DW, ActionDan, MistBeauty, Rylai, Lopsy, v2v

Scummy (no particular order): lucky, IceGuy, iStark

Null: malthusis, Otto

...

-Don't like Glass' contradiction: ActionDan is scum buddying up to weak town Rylai, but Rylai is scum. What? Townread diminished.

...

OKAY

Top three scumreads: luckyjt, IceGuy, Korlash


Top three townreads: Lopsy, DW, iStark


That's just how I'm feeling right now. The biggest movement between the old thread and the new is iStark. I've liked basically all of his posting in the new thread and it feels real to me. I no longer think he's scum and think some of the things I found scummy are due to a combination of newness and language barrier. (What is your first language, iStark?)


VOTE: luckyjt



CSL, why do you think DeltaWave is scum? I think it's clear beyond clarity that he is not.

These are the relevant posts on Glass. Glass did not end up making my final top three townreads, but was still leaning town overall. Early on, I felt very confident in Glass town. Glass' early game felt transparent, open, and townish. A little bit later on, when he started to disconnect, there were some contradictions that bothered me - but how much of that had to do with slowly disconnecting from the game?

All in all, OOTM isn't the WORST lynch, but I don't like it.

[Amrun]

What about Lucky?

I have pretty clearly had lucky as a scumread since page 1 of the game.

[Amrun]

VOTE: lucky

Equally fine with lucky and IceGuy wagons.

[Amrun]

Self preservation when he self voted? Really?

[Amrun]

VOTE: Om of the nom

CHANGING MY MIND

FUCK YEAH

[Amrun]

lucky/amrun scumteam?

LOLOLOL no

[Amrun]

I've been pushing for lucky's death for a long fucking time.

I don't see the scum motivation for him to vote for himself as a way to stop distracting the town. He's very, very, new. I've keyed into a LOT of scummy things from his slot, but I don't see such a raw newbie doing that as a gambit. No way.

Om Nom's post after that was so ... it didn't look at intent at ALL. "Self preservation..." Yeah right. That read purely as "YAY MISLYNCH GO THROUGH ME HAPPY"

[Amrun]

Korlash, it's like you don't think about what you're saying at all.

I know I've been on lucky all game. As scum, what reason do I have to conspicuously change my mind? Why should I be purposelessly inconsistent?

You're not thinking about intent.

[Amrun]

I already said. I simply don't think luckyjt is experienced enough to pull that sort of gambit as scum and know what kind of reactions it would receive. He's completed one newbie game, and really reads as a newbie. I don't think he has the confidence or the competence (yet) to try and manipulate people's reads like that.

Like I said, with Glass, Glass wasn't my top town read and did not even make my top 3 - still, I leaned town on him. I had reasons for misgivings, which I noted, but that post of Om Nom's really blew me out of the water as being SUPER SCUMMY opportunistic.

[Amrun]

What do you mean, didn't this happen once already early day one? That's proof enough he KNOWS what can happen if he pulls it. A newbie scum that gets run up early day one can easily pull the martyr play without even intending to manipulate anything.

So yeah, if he did pull this during his first wagon, he certainly is experienced enough to know what kinds of reactions it would receive. Of course, this would be relying on AD for his assessment of Lucky's play early on. (I certainly don't feel like going back into the cached pages :\)

Wait, he self-voted Day 1? I'm fairly certain this didn't happen. I read the whole thing in detail and do NOT remember that...

If that's true, then you're right, though.

Also I explained why I wasn't playing to my current town meta. I'm actually playing to my original town meta, and Dan can verify that.

You don't "play to a town meta" as town. You just ARE TOWN. The fact that you were self-conscious enough about this word choice to correct it tells me that you revealed too much.

[Amrun]

No, I don't believe he self voted day one. But he didn't self vote today either.

Yes, he did. o.O What?

[Amrun]

luckyjt - Korlash,

luckyjt

, Om of the Nom

YES, he did, Korlash.

Don't claim prematurely, Om. Claim if you get to L-1 and not before.

[Amrun]

Whoa, settle down kitty. If the mod doesn't want to play by his own rules regarding voting then fine, I'll take my foot out of my mouth.

What difference would it make? The intent was there. So you saying he did it on day 1 makes no freaking sense.

[Amrun]

There you go again, using that word. Not using the pattern set forth in the rules to make a vote suggests you aren't really intending to make said vote, i.e. the vote you placed was fake. And I was inferring from AD that he did the 'woe is me' crap day one, not the self vote. I really should, read it, sometime... But I just don't care...

He really didn't, not to that level, and was never SERIOUSLY wagoned, only a very early game (almost rvs) wagon.

He's been voting the same way all game and his votes have been counting.


p-edit:

My role does not mention sanity at ALL, but the flavor doesn't seem to suggest that I am anything other than sane (though I will go re-read after this to make double double sure). I get results in the form of Mafia or Not Mafia, not guilty or innocent.

[Amrun]

idk what he did, honestly, but I remembered him using it at other times (at least with Om). My point was he had seen the mod accept that format at LEAST once before.


OKAY I just realized I glazed over something very important in my role. It does not suggest sanity either way, but it does mention that I will not be notified if roleblocked (though this is a paraphrase, of course, and it uses different words).

That PROBABLY means that I get a "Not Mafia" result if roleblocked.

SO UH

Yeah. That's important.

[Amrun]

Does anyone else know what usually happens when cops are roleblocked but not told that they are? Could it NOT be getting false results?

[Amrun]

There was a long flavor thing with my result in spoiler tags that I honestly only skimmed because it said it was optional. But I should probably read it again. So h/o.

[Amrun]

It said something about IceGuy killing malthusis and his badge. I looked for Korlash's badge (but notably, seemed to have problems finding it?) and Korlash's apartment thing was messy.

[Amrun]

Vote: IceGuy[/vote]

I will look.


I know they USUALLY receive a "no result" pm but my role PM specifically mentions that I will NOT get one... And not sending a pm is just the same as sending a no result. So I don't know what else that could mean but giving a possibly false negative. I'm asking for other ideas because my own idea SUCKS.

[Amrun]

Oops

VOTE: IceGuy

[Amrun]

I can't seem to download the cache anymore.

p-edit: Rainbow, what I'm telling you is that my role PM has a clause that specifically says I will NOT BE NOTIFIED if something impedes my action.

[Amrun]

At this point, just fucking full claim.

I'm having a hard time explaining this clause in my PM without quoting because I feel like nothing says it right except its own words. :/

It says I won't be notified if my action went through if it's roleblocked or impeded in some way. Which upon first reading, I just took to mean normal, but then when I read it again just now, I started to get paranoid.

If I'm NOT NOTIFIED, isn't that the same as "no result" - and if that is so, then what does not notified mean?!

p-edit: What the fuck do you mean you need more information? I've given all the information I can give without being modkilled!

[Amrun]

VOTE: Om

Now he just seems like he's fishing. More info indeed.

[Amrun]

If I'm NOT NOTIFIED, isn't that the same as "no result" - and if that is so, then what does not notified mean?!

Question question question. Two things, 1) You can just ask the mod... 2) You will not be told you were roleblocked. The mod will not say "Hey, you were roleblocked.' That's all it means. Odds are, you will instead get a 'no result' pm and you would have to infer being Roleblocked on your own. (i.e. there are other reasons you could get no result than just roleblocked.)

1) I have. Waiting for his response. 2) I don't get that impression from the PM, but we'll see what he says.


Om, what??? Mine was BADGES, not cards, and I don't get Not Guilty results, I get Not Mafia results.

what is this i don't even

[Amrun]

Mine also implied that your badge was the same as malthusis' (VT) but didn't say it straight out. But the flavor is optional.

Om, you can't be serious. Why would I go out of my way to claim a non-standard result type (which I claimed yesterday, for the record) when I could reasonably expect to be counterclaimed if lying? *rolls eyes*

[Amrun]

VOTE: IceGuy

I think the conflicting flavor (card/badge, not guilty/not mafia) is WIFOM. I don't see scum sticking their nose out for me like that, and he added some details into the flavor... I just have a really bad feeling that lynching based off of optional flavor is stupid. Also, I had already said mafia/not mafia several times AND mentioned a badge, so I don't see that as a scumslip, either.

p-edit: It's not about counterclaiming cop. You said you BELIEVED me, but now you vote me off of something that I claimed YESTERDAY. I think you're just being stupid and skimming, though.

p-edit: It said I could see the letters and it reassured me that you were town - and malthusis' badge said VT (not sure about punctuation).

[Amrun]

Mafia or Not Mafia.

From Day 1, when asked how I get my results - which is IN MY PM.

[Amrun]

There was absolutely NOTHING in my role about any sort of badge. It didn't say I could "see the letters" either, it just said that I found a nice green card that had "V.T." written on the bottom right.

EDIT: Yes it does say Mafia or not Mafia, but I never got my reults like that or like yours.

Wait, your pm says Mafia or Not Mafia, but you got a Not Guilty result?

If so, can you ask if this is a mod error?


It is really fucking stupid to try and lynch me because of different flavor. It's WIFOM. It's optional flavor - why would the mod give you the same thing as me, for flavor? He probably changed it to card so that it was different.

p-edit: So how would I have known that, then? I've said EVERYTHING first - you could be copying me and messed it up. I don't think you are, but you could be.

[Amrun]

You would have known it because it's

IN THE ROLE PM

.

VOTE: Om of the Nom

Thanks for revealing you know I'm town...

[Amrun]

I have a better question. Why do we have multiple cops that both targeted the same person on the same night and got the same result? (answer, because at least one is lying)

That's actually a really good point.

Which might be great because I might have just accidentally hammered. :/

My boyfriend thought I hurt myself because I was just like "HOLYFUCKINGSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITBALLS" out of nowhere when I realized...

Let me go count...

p-edit: I DID KNOW IT, YOU BLATHERING IDIOT. I BROUGHT IT TO THE TOWN'S ATTENTION. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

[Amrun]

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I SAID I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANT

and phew, I didn't hammer.

[Amrun]

The WHOLE FUCKING POINT was that I didn't know what not notified MEANT in the context of the game. Do I get no pm, a result pm, a false result, WHAT

I said very specifically what the PM said.

I feel like I could scream for the frustration right now.

p-edit: No, I re-counted and I didn't hammer.

p-edit: WHAT ;akldsfas;ldk

[Amrun]

oh my god

i don't even

what

[Amrun]

Om of the Nom, why would you investigate Korlash?

[Amrun]

Yep, finished skimming the cache. I'm happy with my current reads for now.

Town (no particular order):
POW WHAM ACTION DAN
DW
iStark
Lopsy
malthusis
Otto von Clark

Null:
MB
IceGuy

Leaning Scum:
Rylai Crestfall
kondi

Scum:
Luckyjt
v2v

I'll get round to reading the current thread later today.

You read Korlash's predecessor as town and never mentioned Korlash's alignment.

@RD: No, I'm not saying Dan is def. scum. I'm just saying maybe we should look into him later. Also why did you start a wagon on me if you wanted it on someone else instead?

Why wouldn't you investigate Dan, then?

@RD: It dissapears if the only people who support it are already on the wagon. It basically means the wagon will probably never get hammered.

I would probably pick Amrun anyway. I had suspected kondi beforehand.

Or me? Or lucky, your top suspects?

Last night I investigated Korlash and recieved "Not guilty". I think I may have seen Amrun around too, probably using some "Cop" ability. There wasn't much else around, except there appeared to be an ID card reading Vanilla.

This, however, is consistent with his later claim.

[Amrun]

Why?

Why wasn't Korlash an obvious choice?

[Amrun]

Excellent news, mein squares!!!

Voided said I wouldn't get anything in case of an RB (making sure this means no pm at all).

Om of the Nom, did Voided tell you if your sanity was guaranteed?

p-edit: BUT WHY would you think that makes a good investigation target? Did you not read him as town yourself?

[Amrun]

Wait, your pm says Mafia or Not Mafia, but you got a Not Guilty result?

If so, can you ask if this is a mod error?

Also, please answer this.

[Amrun]

...

VOTE: Ice Guy

WELP

Om of the Nom is mod confirmed.

[Amrun]

I was trying to bait Om, but Voided said my sanity is guaranteed. So I'm assuming Om got the same answer.

[Amrun]

I definitely wouldn't get a PM.

But Voided just confirmed that Om got a result PM, which I think makes him town. So yeah.

[Amrun]

You won't.

You definitely won't.

[Amrun]

Om of the Nom is confirmed town, and our sanities are confirmed town, thus Korlahs is confirmed town (or godfather, but whatevs)

I'm obvious town by virtue of being obvious town re: claim wars that just happened.

RD is obvious town re: his claim etc.

SWEETNESS

[Amrun]

Which leaves...

1. ActionDan
3. IceGuy
4. iStark
6. Lopsy
7. Luckyjt
9. CSL
11. BBmolla

Of these, CSL is almost definitely town.

iStark, luckyjt, and Lopsy are town via my reads.

Therefore, scum is in {ActionDan, IceGuy, BBmolla}.

HOT DAMN.

Game in the bag.

Lynch from that list of 3, and I'll check ~someone~ and Om will check ~someone~ and at least one of us is likely to survive, so this game is looking good right now.

[Amrun]

My highest scumreads are IceGuy and BBmolla, in hindsight. BBmolla is still posting in and playing and joining games all over the site. I like them + ActionDan for a scumteam fo' sho'.

[Amrun]

If we compromise on IceGuy, I'm fine.

[Amrun]

IceGuy, our sanities are also confirmed.

[Amrun]

I asked Voidedmafia and he said I was sane.

[Amrun]

Then where is the wagon coming from, Rban?

[Amrun]

I'm not going to tell scum that, and neither should you.

[Amrun]

I'm not going to tell scum that, and neither should you.

This.

Announcing target is rather stupid and I don't know if you guy realized something or not but I think most of you're missing important detail here.
Why would mod confirm sanity of cop's when it's not mentioned in role PM? I don't know if I'm missing something since I haven't exactly played this type of theme before but that's odd.

It's not a bastard game, so the mod is not lying to us. Plus, we both got the same result on the same person.

[Amrun]

You're suggesting we're not sane, and the mod told me I am, and that means Om almost definitely is, too.

[Amrun]

what is this i don't even

I wasn't thinking, all right? Can we leave this particular topic for post-game?

[Amrun]

VT.

You sorta-counterclaimed a miller as VT?

If it was taken as a counterclaim, this was not my intention.

No no no.

=========[]

[Amrun]

Uh, IceGuy, I never fakeclaimed anything. O.o

[Amrun]

Amrun:

It said something about IceGuy killing malthusis and his badge. I looked for Korlash's badge (but notably, seemed to have problems finding it?) and Korlash's apartment thing was messy.

I thought this was a fakeclaim of yours.

Read the flavor I got. After I flipped town cop, why would you still think this? lol

[Amrun]

I had no idea I was originally vt. Yeah, should have been force replaced. Oh well.

[Amrun]

I don't know what happened in this game, but if the Cops were confirmed by the mod (how did this happen?) then that sucks for scum - maybe it would have been easier if that didn't happen.

He sent the other cop a result PM that was worded differently than mine, and I asked Om of the Nom to see if it was a mod mistake - Voided confirmed in thread that it was.

And I also asked Voided if I was sane and he responded yes, but then wouldn't tell Om when he asked. It didn't really matter becuase we investigated the same person on N1 and got the same result.

[Amrun]

Yeah, Lopsy I read as town, not so much with MoI.