New York 152 Niiightless Game Over!

[noraaa]

I feel like redff wants to die.

[noraaa]

Do you really find redFF suspicious for that, BBmolla?

You're jumping to attack him for wanting a quick lynch. A better move would be to ask him why he wants to lynch Vifam. You gotta cover your bases, dude.

I feel like redff wants to die.

Is this just an offhand remark or are you implying jester?

Well of all the posts that started the game, his immediate vote on Vifam with explicit explanation that he wanted him dead, as well as his quicklynch remark, made him the target of my first vote. But then I considered that who would start a game like that if they weren't trying to off themselves, so I withheld voting for him in case that's just what he wants.

I feel like redff wants to die.

I feel like this was a scummy non-contributory post.

1.good dodge, not good enough
2. says the guy who wants to lynch asap
3. it contributed, whether you can see the value or not depends on your mindset. I didn't post it to fill up space.

Policy Lynch Vote: crypto

Yarly

I want to vote you for this but it would be really hypocritical so I'll give you a little more time before I throw down.

[noraaa]

Pine, IDK I think you should give people a chance (fresh game fresh face) before you attack them for how they behaved in the past. Esp when it's obvious and has been for days that he's interested in playing for real.

Just see what he does here and if you don't like it then vote. You had your chance to out.

red-
1. lol when should i start then page ten
2. if you say so. agree to disagree. maybe you think it's not contributory bc it has your name on it.
3. i don't believe voting is the only way to contribute to a game. I prefer to think and figure out why someone did something first before I waste my time voting them.


so what does lynching someone quickly gain you, and do you care so much who it is that dies? Besides Vifam I mean?

[noraaa]

red, what if Vifam is a really important town role? Would you still want him to die on policy?


ps make me write my paper

[noraaa]

enumerations

I went to look this up and it looked mathy so I stopped.

pedit oops sorry better lynch me

[noraaa]

1. you were dodging my original remark, obviously. I didn't think I had to spell it out.
2. I didn't say that actually I said I think you WANT to die in which case I'm watching to see if my hypothesis feels correct before I give you what I think at the time you might want. Now I'm less certain based on future posts, so that would have been stupid to vote you. My votes are precious, like Catholic sperm. It wasn't pointless, in fact it pointed out a theory that others could contribute to.
3. You didn't expressly say that but you did call me out on not voting=not contributing. Had I said that and voted simultaneously, I feel your argument would not have been made. Again, I never said you need to die. Read better pls

re vifam- kay thanks for explaining


vifam- that's literally what I stopped trying to read.

[noraaa]

shit sorry guys I'll start quoting when I reply I forgot it sort of makes it hard to follow.

[noraaa]

re: redff explained his vifam angle better


second one was replying to vifam


yeahhhh I'll work on that

[noraaa]

oh my bad. Still I don't see how I dodged, could you explain more?

i felt that you wanted to get yourself offed

you did not address


the end


ps i don't feel that way so much atm

[noraaa]

1. I don't like RedFF
2. I don't recall ever having a problem with RedFF

Vifam- you don't agree that gauging how someone responds to something you do could be helpful?

[noraaa]

not everyone's online all the time like us. But yeah I hate when people flake, at least if they do I hope they do it d1

[noraaa]

I"m probably failing for always being on my ipod in class.

I'm going to minimize you guys and try to work on my paper for a while.

[noraaa]

inte what the fuck post 82. also don't base a vote on "from what I remember."

Good points by Matias but sorta shallow imo. But then we can't find everything in the first five minutes. I agree that red, as someone who "wants reactions" was pretty good at giving said reactions.

Seriously I wrote a paper and exposited on like fifty thousand poems in two hours and you guys did barely anything. For shame.

[noraaa]

Well I'm a nice girl and I like to think I'm pretty fair about things so that's dumb.

I don't get the point in voting someone and not saying why until someone draws it out of you. I also don't see the point in voting someone entirely based off actions they may or may not have made in the past that has nothing to do with this game.

[noraaa]

If you followed the signup thread you'd see others had issues in the past but they didn't seem to bring it into this game.

Myself included.

Of all the people that have seemed potentially scummy to me you're the only one who hasn't offered any sort of argumentation really. That's from MY gut.


pedit- speaking to inte

pedit 2- inte describe your voting philosophy please.

[noraaa]

Me? I'm not on anyone's side but the truth.


(cue law and order theme song)

[noraaa]

elliot-

1. hypocritical to vote someone that is policy lynching for their policy lynch I mean it's kind of...spells itself out.

2. I'm not trying to look anything, nor am I trying to save anyone from any lynch. I was examining red's position. And yes, I figure it would be known before he died, and I wondered if he'd still want him dead regardless of his role.

3. jokes, dude.

4. goodposting

[noraaa]

to elaborate on one, if I voted him for that I'd be doing much the same thing.

[noraaa]

Oh fair warning I might likely be gone all weekend at a festival. I'll say so if I go!

[noraaa]

sup.
VOTE: noraaa
seems like she has the urge to post for the sake of posting.

You haven't found any potential benefit from any of the things I've said in this thread?

Also V/LA until sunday.

I won't have internet access at the beach!

[noraaa]

I will admit that we may have been pretty conversational the first night but it's not something that bothers me.

I stand by my game posts as being potentially useful, depending on the replies and such.

[noraaa]

My head! It hurts! I can't keep track of who is replying to who in this redFF/Vifam/noraaa/crypto mess,

lol yeah I think we were all hyper and we had been back and forthing in several threads at that point and it carried over here.

Elliot is Blonde Doctor, I was making a joke, I'll stick with the real name from now on. xD (scrubs if you're not a tv watcher)..I was going to use a different name every time ALA Dr. Cox but I'll refrain.



Question for all the people who said "and this is scummy because?" Do you agree or disagree with that assessment of my posting?


leaving for the beach in like, 10-40 minutes soooo gimme while we got it.

[noraaa]

Nice to see people coming out of the woodwork. See, crypto.. we will have a real game. (I'm a real boy!... god I'm tired).


If anyone thinks they're going to want to leave the game, can you do it sooner rather than later?

[noraaa]

an earnest attempt to try and decipher something, albeit misplaced.

I would argue that something of the sort is never misplaced if it leads you closer to the truth.


I like Blonde Doctor's recent posting, but it's just been accepting answers and trying to flesh out what others (Matias) means by something so it's not super deep. I do think (s)he is overreacting to Matias.

[noraaa]

back, reading, will post after.

[noraaa]

I"m probably failing for always being on my ipod in class.

I'm going to minimize you guys and try to work on my paper for a while.

Me? I'm not on anyone's side but the truth.


(cue law and order theme song)

That first post seemed unprompted, like she felt the pressure to keep her presence up. Whether or not she is mafia might depend on how she usually plays, but have never played with her so idk how that is.

Why did you include the second one?

Like I said, we had been conversational. If that bothers you it bothers you but I wasn't the only one doing it and it was in response to something someone had said.. I believe crypto probably. About being online constantly.

For the record I don't feel pressure to do anything, especially not in the first half hour of the game, when more than half of the people hadn't even shown their faces. Really now.

Nobody else sees noraaa as suspicious? Did I join a game where people just don't vote their friends?

yeah. she didn't answer my question about why she was defending hiraki

@crypto people who change votes way too much bother me, you're probably going be stuck as a scumread most of the game because of it

I did answer you, in fact. By saying I wasn't defending Hiraki. The reply in question, I believe, is in this very post above you. I don't know his alignment, why do I care if you vote him as long as you give reasons that make sense as a train of thought. I was asking why you voted and ran, that's not really defending him. Like.. at all.

How does changing your vote often make someone scum?

I've found the reverse to be true in people's minds, actually. I'm surprised inte hasn't ever once run into being voted JUST for a lack of voting every other second.

I wasn't about to in depth explain it

You seem to have done this a few times now, honestly. In a game like this, you sorta need to be able to defend your reasoning when asked, and sometimes (gasp) know to do so even before being asked.

gonna go ahead and

vote:mb

the fact that he didn't know the dayvig was a joke suggests he's not reading the thread/paying attention.

And that makes me scum... how?

y'all stupid for voting him because he's stupid

this just redeemed you somewhat in my eyes. Also yeah, not paying attn/being dense doesn't necessarily make someone scummy it just makes them someone who isn't playing well.

--
Thoughts that don't have quotes cause I'm tired as fuck and don't want to chase down quote towers anymore-

Pine- Blondie being an alt or not only matters in-game if they're someone else in game, thus breaking the rule on page one.

Tell me how it matters otherwise? (worth noting that Blondie has not come back since but that isn't confirmation of anything until we see them post again.. however it's been a full two days nearly)

also I didn't realize I was defending crypto, thanks for letting me know. I thought I was just responding with my thoughts on people's comments. But you know me better than me, so.


BK201 decided to chase someone else when noone played with his scummy nora questioning. If he really felt I was scummy why not explain why, try to win people over? In my last game (lost to time, unfortunately) every single person in my game thought someone was town but me. I didn't roll over, I made a case and pushed it.

VOTE BK201

[noraaa]

It doesn't matter, in my opinion if they necessarily agree. But if what you're doing makes sense. And if you don't show any work, we can't know if you cheated on the math test or if you got the answer right/wrong on your own.

Sorry that's the only way I could explain what I was trying to say. Shitty metaphors. ^_^

[noraaa]

What excuse did I make for leaving the forum? Surely you aren't referring to my v/la...

[noraaa]

re: Who said it was leading you closer to the truth?

I said, right then. Whether the truth ends up being what I was originally thinking or not, digging further almost always helps root stuff out.



Blondie- you're coming across as either reaching really far, or just.. super oversensitive here. SUPER oversensitive.

[noraaa]

awesome. Welcome, Psyche.

[noraaa]

crypto, that vote seems wasted as Vifam is being replaced.. But I'm not going to insult your intelligence by assuming that's the only thing you're voting his slot for.

[noraaa]

I still think it's a wasted vote though.

[noraaa]

What excuse did I make for leaving the forum? Surely you aren't referring to my v/la...

this one, #65 "I'm probably failing for always being on my ipod in class.

I'm going to minimize you guys and try to work on my paper for a while."

so mb what's up?

Oh lol. I was telling them why I was gonna suddenly stop my part in the conversation. I've already addressed that shit several times so this should be the last!

[noraaa]

1. Ythan, what's up with Vifam? Hasn't posted since April 26, not replaced.

2. Blonde Doctor- cause your posting comes across like you're kind of freaking out over it. *shrug* idk maybe it's a personality thing.

[noraaa]

NS contribute more than sparring jabs plz

[noraaa]

We have a wiki for a reason, dudes, I didn't know either, It's not hard to find.

There are ways to accidentally backspace off of a post you're making, I do it all the time. However, I use browsers that I can usually recover that shit from. I do agree, Psyche you need to give more of the info you were making, even if it takes ten tries.

I'm busy today but I'll read more later. I want to actually reread the game and re-feel out my feels. Blondie is looking better. Blondie, how many games have you played before? And how many newbie games did you play before heading this way?

[noraaa]

NS that was a horrible post. Give us examples if you want us on your side. You know, like you told inte to do. And I know you hate bad grammar but it's not part of a reason to vote someone. That's just ridiculous, you're reaching and reaching. I rather thought the posting by UN was pretty decent. The big Psyche post anyway.

I'm going to re-read some stuff today and see how my feelings stand on the people I had been thinking were scummy and townish. It's hard with everything being so sporadic to keep it all concrete. Time to start taking notes.

In the meantime,

unvote

,

vote NS

[noraaa]

@crypto people who change votes way too much bother me

Why? I disagree.

false

No. Please use complete sentences and suport your arguments with reasoning. What is false? That he disagrees? See, you can't argue whether he disagrees. It's called an

opinion.

Try harder. Even if you think we're weird.

unvote

Vote: inte

You didn't write that? My bad.


Honestly I just realized I mentally combined this post and your UN post (which was more drama than examples why we should vote..) but. Even so, let's examine this post. You asked a question of inte, which you then proceeeded to answer yourself. You decided what was false, and went with that. You can't base an argument on someone off your own interpretation of what they might have meant.

UNGH I'm not going to do my relooksee until late tonight likely cause my friend is coming over today. Hold me to it, I'm doing it today. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows I'm not throwing around the idea. I really do need to do one, regardless.

My vote still stands.

[noraaa]

UN, no offense, but that conversation is a dead horse at this point. Your post was not needed.

[noraaa]

Psyche as town I don't think you'd need to ask us those sort of questions. If you have to decipher what sort of things might be perceived as scum then I feel you are scum being way too transparent. No townsperson should need to give more than a minor fuck about what anyone thinks of their posting, aside from how well they are getting their idea across. I'd vote for you if NS wasn't making me so damned itchy.

There's plenty of voting in this game but hardly any analytical dialogue going on. I feel like too many people are either scummy as fuck or not giving their all to this game. Starting my re-read now.

[noraaa]

note to self, start at page eleven.

So far, rereading has really helped me focus my reads. I think I'm pretty satisfied to keep my vote where it is. I'll read over the notes I took in the morning when I'm less tired, finish my read, and post a little bit of my thoughts on scumminess etc. of certain players.

[noraaa]

Psyche, I'm not voting NS based of one, two, or even three posts. I'm voting him based off his general play. Either he doesn't give a shit about this game or he's scum, and scum who doesn't give a shit about this game. Either way, I don't feel like I'm losing out by voting him.

Also did you notice that he called me out on my mistake about his post but then completely ignored when I expounded on it? But did jump on crypto's post.



I agree that Mogri should not be giving the shits he is giving about what someone might think. You vote because you think someone deserves a vote, not because you're afraid of what someone might think of your vote. That always pings me and I don't get why people would even say something like that.

Blondie reminds me of myself in my first game. Hiraki, do you see it? It's painful. Blondie, keep playing. Just keep playing. (I'm only in my fourth one myself.)

Most of the people on my radar I'm having trouble distinguishing if they're scum or if they just kinda suck.

[noraaa]

TeCh I think the only person on my radar you really didn't talk about was mb. I can't decide if he's incompetent, or scum (no offense to mb but).

[noraaa]

To expand on my stance on mb- I just noticed that sometimes he seemed really smart and then he'd make really bad arguments, and it went back and forth so much I couldn't tell if he was having trouble playing consistently or if he's just struggling with some arguments and not with others.

UNGH,


ns/bb/inte
red

I feel the top three are playing similarly. And not in a positive way.

I never finished catching up on my reread, I'll be honest. I didn't like the whole UN/Psyche exchange but that could easily be distraction as well as it could be forced posting. I think that mb/bk are likely town that are just really bad at reading sometimes.

Also this might be moot but. Pine and NS both said they'd respond about Blondie's alt answer no matter what the response was and neither chimed in at all once (s)he responded.

[noraaa]

lol ok.

Let me look at Mogri's crap more just so I don't vote poorly. I still feel eh about red but his early day one play sucked and now he's just not trying for shit. But that could be said about a lot of people.

[noraaa]

read Mogri. read red. read last three pages.

def prefer Mogri to red.

unvote, vote Mogri

[noraaa]

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

[noraaa]

nice avi

[noraaa]

Pine, sorry I totally missed that.

I see where you're coming from, but I was ridiculously bad my first game, and Blondie kinda reminds me of myself there. SO I guess it comes down to the replacement.

[noraaa]

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

because the deadline is fucking close and there's not a solid case, that's why

why do you think i switched from him, numbnuts

there's no need to be a twat now is there.

I still prefer an NS lynch and I don't know why he doesn't have more takers. :/

because the deadline is fucking close and there's not a solid case, that's why

why do you think i switched from him, numbnuts

analysis of this:

nora: scum logic
uber: town logic

explain why it's scummy logic to wonder why noone wanted to push for an NS vote? There were people voting him earlier in the day. I'd like to know why they preferred to jump to the bigger ships instead of trying to bring others to their own. NS is either a shitty shitty player (sorry dude) or scum, and either way he's a clear winner for "doesn't need to be in this game." He's just been making snide remarks while he was here, and on the occasion that he asked a question he didn't follow through, and when someone called him on something he never responded. Sooo yeah I sure feel scummy as fuck wanting to vote him.

[noraaa]

Also it's not really "town logic" at all to know the basic mechanics of the game.

[noraaa]

As for Blondie, I think it's somewhat wasted to try to throw a case out publicly now. I mean, if scum, the replacement has a nice blueprint to follow in that instance.

[noraaa]

Fair enough, NS is definitely going to be considered for a D2 lynch. I just wasn't sure why you were addressing the NS issue (which is fine) and not addressing the current red/mogri debate, or even why you wouldn't support either of those choices but want an NS lynch (kind of scummy). Even if you are 99% sure NS is scummy, there are surely more than one scum in this game, and we can't lynch them all day 1. Even still, you are not following current events. I really don't mind you ranting on about NS, in fact I encourage it, but you should be making a statement on the most pertinent issue at hand and that is today's lynch, albeit, mogri vs red (even if you're comment is neither, it's still a comment).

We tried to make it known that we need a hammer, and crypto even mentioned you in the hopes you would deliver it. Red's lynch awaits. Please make you're decision.

The post beforehand had made my top three/four. I don't have to do that in every post.

And I did make my decision. I chose Mogri over red. Reading past this post now.

[noraaa]

No it wasn't. It was a hard lynch to make happen before deadline. I personally didn't mind waiting ten hours. And went to bed early, so.

[noraaa]

ns/bb/inte
mogri

pet has not won me over yet. so the bb slot is still in that list.

Fuck I just realized I had more to say but I've copied over that.. so let me reconstruct.

UN- are you unable to iso Mogri yourself somehow, or did you do so and not find anything suspicious?

I had one other point, but I can't remember it. If I do I'll share.



Honestly till the end I was on the fence about red. And I'm not sure why, he was playing just as poorly as the rest of the guys on my list are.. but between the two last night (I went to bed right after my last post) Mogri seemed far worse to me. And I hoped red was giving up because he felt like a lost cause and not because he was scum.

If there are two teams... I can see it, potentially. That would honestly add crypto to my list of possible scum.

[noraaa]

In the meantime, Noraaa jumps up the suspect list.

Do what you want, but just because I wasn't antsy to push a lynch that was already going through doesn't make me scum.

[noraaa]

Bk was on my radar but when I did my reread up till page 10 I sort of placed him in my "I don't think you read the thread very well" category. But that could just be scum anyway.

[noraaa]

I think he had talk in one of his games and didn't in another.

inte I go back and forth on like, almost every day.

[noraaa]

Also, what are the odds that there is actually only one scum team and Ythan is trolling us?

I'd say extremely low based on just about everything I know about Mafia, this site, and Ythan.

lolol Ythan -would- do that, and he would laugh all the way to endgame over it, too. Which is not to say he DID do that, but that you don't know his ways as well as you might think you do. When I saw the blue team thing I literally immediately wondered how many factions, if any, there were.

So I guess our votes reset to zero at daylight? That hasn't happened in my other games. I like it, actually. Makes things clearer. I'm still down to vote Mogri today. NS can wait, I agree with teCh, we can see how he does but if his posting doesn't change then I want him dead.

Matias, I know you said you're catching up and that's the only reason I'm going to groan but not pick at your Blondie post. (S)he wants out of the game. And I still personally believe it's more newb than scum but we shall see when the replacement digs in.

I'm v/la this weekend.

Going camping. My vote for Mogri still stands, so.

vote Mogri

[noraaa]

So, some questions because I'm lazy:

Why is inte STILL totally voteless??

Has there been discussion about whether the lynch was quick enough that it caught (both?) mafia offguard, thus, no NK?

Has peta been as scummy as BBmolla was?

Who should I vote?

1. good call I didn't notice that
2. the game is nightless, so..
3. read/start to decide for yourself, and welcome to the game.

also welcome for real Kairyuu




ugh might not be v/la this weekend after all, I'll let you know.

[noraaa]

well I did, you know.

And if it's nightless, that means no nightkill. Your question was moot. Unless I completely don't get the point of this game and I think I do. So correct me if I'm wrong.

[noraaa]

my v/la is a go, i'll be back sunday or early monday idk

[noraaa]

Wow.

Kay I'm back from camping in the woodsies.

Kairryuu you're fucking adorable and totally reconfirmed my belief that Blondie was just a really newb version of me.. Which means that someday I might turn into you which sounds cool.

You said you don't get behind the Mogri action.. I am too tired right now to put it in words really well, but after my last iso of Mogri, if I recall why I picked him over red.. he seemed to be saying a lot of stuff that didn't add up, or that he didn't pursue except superficially, and his emotion level changed a lot imo from "somewhat gung ho" to "fuck it whatever" to "but he did it too". At that point his iso just felt more "dirty" than red's. But, I haven't looked at the game in two days and I'm tired as shit, so everyone is kind of blending together right now. Your post directly contradicts that sentiment about Mogri, and I'm highly inclined to rethink my stance.. after I take a nap and get a fresh head I would like to look back over him.

Mogri, I'd like to see you dig deeper.

Honestly I have like five players that I'm just wondering if they're tagging off cause you never see them at the same time but they're all playing about the same. And either they're all kinda bad at scum or they're just not invested in this game. Which could be either. I'm honestly more wary of the highly competent players because they're harder to catch when scum.

NS I can't get a handle on because he has the tiniest snippets where he almost plays right and I want so badly to hold onto that but.. I can't excuse the rest of it. I feel like he either is barely reading or he tries to twist things he reads, and then (mostly) ignores replies that call him on it.

And yeah, a lot of people have been really skating this game. :<

[noraaa]

UN, what, pray tell is my post missing?


Also you have a lot of little comments about everyone else's posting for someone who doesn't do a lot of digging yourself.

[noraaa]

inte, my last game I got so so so much flak for not voting much, esp day 1. I've been slowly getting better at voting more in tune with my reads but seriously. You can't hold onto your vote AND your reads forever. If you don't want to die, that is.

Stop making excuses and step up to the plate. Or die.

[noraaa]

Why would I have voted there, I already have a vote. In your last post you chastise me a little for not paying attention, but then you do exactly that. Obvious my ass.

And for the matter, there was a discussion going on about inte's voting and reads, and I added to it. He's been using excuses to avoid getting his hands dirty and I gave my say. Don't act like my post was just stuck in the middle of nowhere. You pick at the weirdest shit because it's nothing that you can really back. I think you should try harder to play the game and let go of all the snippy bullshit you seem to be pulling instead. Unless I have your attitude totally misread, and I don't think I do. It's not productive and it doesn't make you look like a badass.

[noraaa]

Also, why would a post where I was feeling out my feelings on people, right before I said I'd like to do a reread, be where I'd vote? Don't you think it makes a tooon more sense to vote/change a vote AFTER I re-iso people?

Cause I do.

[noraaa]

As scum, he lurks more than this and from what I've seen rarely pushes on a question. There's a decently well chance of NStown here.

He lurks more than this? How is that even possible.

I've definitely noticed that every time he's "called" me on ANYthing I've said about him/the game, he's been talking down to me (I guess that's his style) and acting like I'm not reading the game (hypocritical) but when I totally back up what I originally said, even adding to it in some cases, he really has nothing to say most of the time.

He doesn't really lay much of anything out, just pops in and out as he pleases. Most of his posts are worthless, and the ones where he tries he gives up or spouts weird nonsense for most of it. If that's town play, it's shitty town play.


Hiraki, how on earth can you think he's "obvious" town. I mean, seriously. One comment where he acts like I didn't answer his question and talks down to me, yup that totally makes him town. Again.. if he's town, he's shitty town. If he's scum, Hiraki's scum too, I betcha betcha. I say we get rid of the shitty player, see his flip, and decide where to go after that.

unvote, vote NS

UN- man I just don't follow the stuff you say. Sorry. Your way of talking in code just flies over my head. If you want me to super secret vote for someone then just come out and say it and I'll think about it and get back to you. Cause you know, the vote would be pretty publicly visable.

Also I play how I wanna play, not how you wanna play. And etc etc with every other player here. Soooo I'll vote for whom and when I decide to. But again, if you think I'm missing something, I can be just as dense as anyone else, that's why I play, to get smarter, so please do spell whatever you're trying to say out to me. But politely, please. I get bitchy when I'm treated bitchily.

[noraaa]

TeCh- thanks for the support but that post wasn't really all that amazing. And while I'm talking to you why are you in a hurry to lynch as soon as possible? I agree with Matias, taking our time is always beneficial. You were also the one push push pushing for specific namedropped reads from the second you joined the game..

Hiraki- honestly I sort of see what you mean from your links, but unless he's skating in all his current games (which we can't talk about anyway) it just makes him look more scummy. He is really a strange player.

post 939 TeCh gets really really defensive wow. Sort of been really rational and polite up till that point. Also that last paragraph is trashy... as is the third paragraph of 940.

TeCh y u go making me suspect you?


@mogri post 941- it's a joke on you're being caught, but not for the reason you think you'd be caught for.

@Pine post 947 learn sarcasm etc crypto obviously knows what's up oh nevermind just read 958

@hiraki post 949 ummmm yeah that's a weird post.

@ mogri 961- UN doesn't have to say JACK, TeCh's posting should speak for itself at this point..

@Mogri, stop talking about circular reasoning when all youre doing is circular posting

SOOO I still wanna lynch NS but fuck if I won't jump on the TeCh wagon after that display. Also noted, Hiraki standing up for both TeCh and NS....

unvote vote TeCh

[noraaa]

lol ok UN

why am I scum? also how is it "textbook" for me to see how shitty his play was but not for you to see it?

[noraaa]

also it's not really a wagon hop, I mean I'll vote the fuck out of NS today but I'd also take down TeCh and he's got more steam behind him because of his crazy batshit posting recently. And his praise of that one post of mine really sits wrong with me.

[noraaa]

@hiraki post 949 ummmm yeah that's a weird post.

Why?

wow, techno just started posting a lot as soon as somebody voted him.

this needs exploring.

UBER JOINED THE WEEK AGO AND HAS 88 POSTS

ARE YOU FUCKING READING?!?

Well firstly, you seem to not find it strange at all that TeCh freaked out the way he did. Secondly, you're acting like this is about posting a lot, calling UN out on posting so much. When it's pretty obvious that the post in question was referring to the weird string of posts that TeCh made right after being voted.

You've been defending scummy actions by people as of late, and it's kind of sketch.

Well... how about we both shut up and vote the fuck out of NS and TeCh.
And then after they're both dead and flipped scum, we can duel at dawn.

IGMEOY NORAAA

Why though? You still haven't answered why you think I'm scummy. And you backed down over that really weak thing you just said about me.. which was.. really..weak..and also something you did, and if you think it's scummy that I did it based on his behavior, then it's scummy that you did it too. Are you saying he's town and that was perfectly acceptable behavior, or are you saying you want me lynched for a bogus reason?

I think we're likely both town. But you're kinda nutty so I can never tell for sure! It's super different playing outside the newbie queue, everyone there sucks but you know it's because they're new to the game. Here everyone is just crazy and they do whatever they feel like.

[noraaa]

Unvote
Vote: TeChNoWC

Lynch me. Fuck this game.

I'm town, anyone who isn't crypto or hiraki, or scum, is an idiot.

Hopefully my lynch will actually help town win, when I flip and people start actually voting for the real scum for real reasons. Btw, overreacting is NOT a scumtell. I have never seen scum overreact, only town.

I've definitely seen scum overreact. And self voting as town is stupid, which is why town don't tend to feel the need to do so. You push quick lynches so hard you even push your own instead of defending yourself. You started out really level headed TeCh, where did it all go? Town should have no need to give up. We've only lynched one person and we caught scum with it. You should not be this perturbed. Over, initially, ONE SINGLE VOTE against you in the game.

[noraaa]

@ noraaa: you gave too much superfluous reasoning to vote techno, even though I had already made a fucking awesome case that nobody in their right mind would disagree with. it would have been far less scummy if you would have just said "i agree with UberNinja who is classy and beautiful.

vote: techno

" with no other reasoning whatsoever

I have no need to parrot you or anyone else. I was taking notes as I read and I posted those notes. I really don't care if I'm not good enough for you. It's your loss, not mine.

[noraaa]

God, I wish I was keeping up with this game!

ME TOO so come on and duit

[noraaa]

well, that was weird. note to self, TeCh loses his shit when someone votes him.

vote NS

pedit- well ok then bye TeCh feel better dude.

Ythan- that new green is fucking painful :<

[noraaa]

Well not what the fuck now. Sorry, man. That has to be hard. I never had one, so I wouldn't know.

pedit- well you saw.

[noraaa]

Well I feel better now (gamewise) cause until that I felt like he was pretty solidly town in my eyes.. and now that I know it was.. real, I don't have to reevaluate all my other shit.

But I'm out for the night. Sorry again TeCh. I hope it was quick and painless.

[noraaa]

It was the way he freaked out...


Ythan- yes thx

[noraaa]

I don't understand the logic suggesting that freaking out over getting voted is a scum tell. But whatever. I'm not a very good player and I suspect that by the end of this game I will have lynched more than my fair share of townies, so I'll drop it. I just find it difficult to believe that so many people gained a legitimate scum read on him.

Well I came a page or so late, so I see Kairyuu make a big logical post, and then instead of being all calm and analytical like he's been all game, TeCh freaked out. And then kept freaking out in subsequent posts. Over one single vote against him. That coupled with his previously enthusiastic response to my last big post (it felt super saccharine to me) and his really strong desire to find out all our scum reads and very quickly lynch people (I guess he's just an impatient guy?) made me wonder if he was just a good player who drew scum, because good players I think can generally logic their way out of looking like scum.. unless they flip out. Didn't realize at the time he was reacting to outside issues and not inside issues.

And I should have opposed it more vocally as the wagon gained speed.

It might have made (at least me) some people rethink their new position on him, but once the wagon was there based on his first set of actions, he was basically "fuck it I'm scum let's just kill me bro" and to me that looked really bad. Like, I've not played a lot but it doesn't seem to me, which I mentioned to him at the time, that a frustrated town would have reacted that way or self voted. Maybe if it dragged on and on, or noone was listening to him.. but he literally in a very fast time a)freaked out over one post and began to point fingers everywhere b)said fuck it kill me idcare without trying to talk out the issues all that coherently. Like I said, at the time, not knowing the outside circumstances, it looked really bad. My base assumption is that town wouldn't feel very pressured by the things that were pressuring him.

[noraaa]

And yet no one seems to care.

I'm taking in your concerns. I'm more focused on others at this point and watching the you+pine shit figure itself out.

[noraaa]

why hasn't Nobody Special been lynched yet?

Because I'm obvtown, duh. Do try to keep up.

I swear to god if you ARE, you should have replaced out.

[noraaa]

If I keep ninjaing you, I must be town. Right?

If you have to keep telling us you're town, then....

ex:
"hey guys I'm funny I promise I'm funny look I said something funny I must be funny right?"

why isn't hiraki on your list? it seems to me you thought he was scumbuddies with NS in this post

i'm willing to fogive hiraki if NS flips town

same thing with the pine/noraa shtick

I can see the logic behind where you made the second association (don't think I ever addressed the first mention). I agree with you on the first one depending on the flip as well.

OK SO I'm down with lynching:

Nobody Special
Pine
Kairyuu

in that order
lets get to it

VOTE: Nobody Special

Can you flesh out your case on Kairyuu? You've only really mentioned this supposed amish tell (which I've heard mentioned over and over on the site but can't find in the wiki.) Also you don't seem to have responded to his reply about you mentioning that. I'd like to know if there is more to your particular case against him and if so/if not, what and why?

also good to see you posting more, gives me faith.

[noraaa]

Hiraki is smart but also can be sheeped by his own ego. I can see him thinking he can't be fooled. It's actually what made us go at each other town vs town in my first game.

But that's just conjecture, I'm not settled on Hiraki either way just yet. Leaning scum atm but just barely.

[noraaa]

Can you flesh out your case on Kairyuu? You've only really mentioned this supposed amish tell (which I've heard mentioned over and over on the site but can't find in the wiki.) Also you don't seem to have responded to his reply about you mentioning that. I'd like to know if there is more to your particular case against him and if so/if not, what and why?

also good to see you posting more, gives me faith.

sowe i thought i linked it earlier:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2067031

BBmolla explains it better:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=150

i've seen it be legit 2/3 times, so i'm pretty faithful (even then the one time it didn't work, the guy only said he didn't like his predecessors playstyle, not even true criticism like saying h was being scummy)
and yes this is the only thing i've got on him, but i follow the logic

eh, I mean honestly I'm going to read the entire thread/my predecessor's posts no matter what alignment I am. And if they're taking a lot of flak for being dumb or weird as shit, I might feel like I should comment on it, depending on the situation. I don't really see that as a legitimate thing, just based on my own knowledge of how I'd replace in. (But I wouldn't likely, cause I like to start from the beginning, not a million pages in).

I can see what the tell is saying, I guess, but I'm not so sure that it's as telling as some might believe. Yourself included.

How does his posting toward TeCh yesterday affect your feeling about his alignment?

[noraaa]

Yeah, crypto, you should be asking who we want you to vote for, not the other way around. Also participation in the game and responding to comments about your play should only be done on a superficial, snarky, hit-and-run level.

lrn 2 mafia



god that's too snarky for me but it makes the point I'm trying to say. NS stop ignoring real content.

[noraaa]

tutu

[noraaa]

inte that was scummy as fuck, and "most of his posts have been filler that doesn't really get a point across"

ARE YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME.




Pine- I can honestly see where you might see that about Blondie, but I saw.. myself, in my first game. Gung ho, with little experience logicking and mechanicking, and tunnelling strong on my first read (which was Hiraki.. two townies who spent pages bitching at each other for no good end). Blondie even said, when asked by myself, that they were super new to the game. So that should be, in my mind, sufficient enough to answer the "scum or newb" question. And then Kairyuu came in with all sorts of detailed, well-thought out cases. That won him a pretty decent town slot in my mind, which on occasion I second guess (what if he's just good at hiding his scumminess) because honestly I second guess EVERYTHING. (irl too, and it sucks)

[noraaa]

if my posting is sporadic or weird over the next 12-36 hours I am sorry. I'm not in a good state of mind atm.

[noraaa]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

No the way Blondie was acting toward you just reminded me hardcore of how I acted in my first game. So I asked about how experienced they were and they responded embarrassedly, and it all just felt like overzealous and underskilled.

[noraaa]

For the record, I believe Kairyuu has completely redeemed Blonde's spot.

I'm not sure if noraaa had meta on Blonde before she made that statement about Blonde just being noobish, I'm not sure if Blonde has been around for that long

why are you recording this? do you feel the need to be accountable to us for your reads changing?

I personally thought he was just adding to the conversation that was quite currently going on about that very subject...

[noraaa]

Fuck I should've previewed before I posted. That was in notepad, and I had wordwrap on which is why that took up way more space than necessary. Deal with it cause it's juicy.

I do that too! UM no I personally found it plenty readable. BUT omg it took me forever to figure out who Hickory Sauce was. I did not catch on at all.

Who did you replace?

Really you couldn't go back a page or two to find that out?

[noraaa]

i'm not reading that post sorry

Give a good reason why.


You're not really playing atm. I hope you aren't throwing the game away.

[noraaa]

Never mind I just saw you posted something after that and it didn't warn me for some dumb reason

[noraaa]

I have to say, I didn't click every link but I did read your post. I've been back and forth on Mogri all day, and mostly because I couldn't really lay out WHY I felt he was scummy really well (I play to get better at exactly that). So thank you. You didn't type it twice for nothing.

I find it interesting how very differently you and Kairyuu feel about him, I'd like to see how K reads your post.

[noraaa]

by all day I meant all game idk why I wrote that.

[noraaa]

Hey I've been trying to kill the guy all game and everyone keeps making it go elsewhere.


I won't vote mogri yet. I want to see Kairyuu's response to peta's post. I'd prefer if Mogri were still alive for that post.

[noraaa]

you fucking DICKS couldn't you have let me have my Kairyuu reply first.

vote crypto.

[noraaa]

you fucking DICKS couldn't you have let me have my Kairyuu reply first.

vote crypto.

stop that

go vote nobody special

I did that for three days, nobody cared a flying fuck.

[noraaa]

nora, do you think i'm scum? if so, change your mind. if not, don't make counterproductive emotionally charged votes.

I don't like fast lynching or people trying to push others to lynch fast. I really wanted to see that interaction. And you orchestrated the blocking of it.

that said, I've literally been trying to lynch NS for three days. Everyone comes close then hops off at the end. I don't see the point atm.

[noraaa]

crypto- if you are you're the most dangerous one here.

[noraaa]

crypto- if you are you're the most dangerous one here.

no, uberninja and kairyuu are. as a matter of principle, i will never put in the effort required to get strong town players lynched, which is necessary for scum to do in nightless games with lots of mislynches (although perhaps not in a game like this where the entire town is flatlining). uberninja and kairyuu, if they are mafia, have proven that they are capable and more than willing to put in such effort.

I disagree, but I'm taking it from a different angle. It's not so much about if you can get town lynched but if you can convince them that you're so town that they don't want to lynch you. UN doesn't fit that, but I can see people being tricked by you and Kairyuu because of your approaches. You are right, you don't put in the further effort.

For now I don't think my vote sits best with you. But I'm not sold entirely. I second guess things a lot.

feel free to google the fucking lyrics.

jesus christ, you are useless in literally every way.

yeahhh I mean my first thought was literally copy+rightclick+google...

Okay, time to blow this game apart.

Or something.

You have spent most of this game apologizing for not being part of it. So step up like you said you were going to do yesterday and the day before. You've also been the hammer twice on a (town) lynch that you didn't really seem to care about.

unvote, vote Psyche

[noraaa]

You've also been the hammer twice on a (town) lynch that you didn't really seem to care about.

None of these are scum-lynching rationales but I accept that you guys are desperate and your votes essentially signify that you are begging me to come save you from uncertainty.

And as I said, I'm on it. Tonight. Knowing this, the vote piling isn't really a necessary or useful thing to do until I renege on my commitment. Your vote, in essence, has no meaning. You'd do better to put some effort into scumhunting with more accuracy. Or pressuring some lurker who is not as commited to posting as I am.

Our votes have a meaning if you die from them. As far as I'm concerned you already reneged on your commitment the first ten times you flaked this game. I know that you flake from disinterest but I know that can be a good excuse to hide behind too.

[noraaa]

NM I just rechecked. I had it in my head that you had hammered Mogri as well.

I know for sure you hammered and you generally vote in a "eh, I guess if you guys want me to vote sure why not" sort of way. Your contributions haven't been that great. I think you very well could be scum. If you're town, you're not playing to wincon very strongly. And it's hypocritical to tell us our votes are misplaced on you and that we should be hunting when you're not really doing anything of the sort yourself. I know 50 pages is a lot to read but some of us have done so, and you've been in this game for a while. You disappear, come back with "I'll do better" and then you.. don't do much at all, and disappear, and the cycle repeats over and over.

I can't tell if you're flaking as scum or as town because you're not giving me enough to work with.

[noraaa]

I replied to you crypto.

[noraaa]

But I can see why you guys are reaching. It's hard to find a good target in this thread, and thus the perfect time to lynch players who aren't necessarily scummy but haven't done crap.

I thought I made it perfectly clear that the way you've been acting IS scummy, but not scummy enough to know your alignment for sure, and muddied by your inability to stay in the thread for long at a time.

The way you vote people seems very go with the flow, you don't bring a lot of your own brainwork to the table.



crypto- you seem more town than scum but I'm wary of you. Is that good enough for you?

UN- don't act like you're the only one who has been trying to get NS all game. I totally agree with crypto's latest assessment about the paranoia of NS being a townie who doesn't give a fuck. Which annoys me because I don't get the point of joining a game you aren't willing to play.

But I feel that way about several players at this point. I want to shake them and force them to play.


Where has Matias been, he keeps going awol as of late. And Kairyuu has been pretty awol as well the last few days.

[noraaa]

ok I'll try this again but I swear to god if NS gets dropped halfway through the day again for someone random I'm going to be very weary of trying.

unvote

if I haven't already

vote NS

[noraaa]

but seriously, slow the fucking lynching down, everyone.

agreed

Psyche- how are you not getting it through your brain that I'm telling you that the way you vote is scummy.

It's not JUST about the lack of content. But yeah, I'm sorry, that's shitty as well. And you can call my reasoning weak all you want. THE WAY YOU VOTE IS SCUMMY.

[noraaa]

Though I am glad to be rid of NS. Totally agree with all that bold shit Pine said. I really don't like the concept of blacklisting/policy lynch but when you play like that as town it's disgraceful and disrespectful to the people who want to play. Selfish, for sure.


Not sure who I'm voting yet so UN and crypto don't even.

[noraaa]

why is my feeling that your voting is scummy bad reasoning?

[noraaa]

Psyche, I think it's clear (lol) that you're struggling to be understood. I struggle with that similarly, and with you in particular.. I think we hit walls because we think in different styles.

HOWever. You can replace the word feeling with whatever appropriate similar word would make it better for you. What I'm trying to say basically is that throughout this game, you have voted for very poor reasons (if stated). It seemed that if someone said Hey Psyche, vote this guy or Hey Psyche, vote someone randomly right this second, you would do it. And that doesn't sit well with me. You don't seem to make most of your votes for reasons that MATTER to YOU and I don't think a lazy townsman would make that kind of judgement call.

[noraaa]

I don't coach anyone. I explain my line of thinking.

Vote me if you will, it won't get you anywhere good. I understand as a game you have to go with your gut but. idk what to tell you. This is how I play. Open and transparent.

I think it's weird that you think I'm smug. You have my attitude all wrong. I'm not that kind of personality at all.



Going to bed.

[noraaa]

Also how am I coaching him exactly? I'm struggling to get him to stop saying the same thing over and over about what I reply to him when I rephrase it in as many different contexts as I can imagine hoping he'll finally get what I mean and stop pressing the same exact phrase on me over and over.

[noraaa]

i stand by my reasoning at the time I voted for each person I voted for.

[noraaa]

actually, now that I look back, you've been on every lynch EXCEPT the time we lynched scum, when you were pushing a counter-wagon. you've hopped back and forth a lot, but so far every wagon you've been on was town, and you conspicuously avoided the redFF lynch and pushed Mogri instead.

Also, not true.

I was against redff, but not sold. When told to put up or shut up against him and Mogri, I chose Mogri in iso.

techno was self explanatory and YOU VOTED HIM TOO.

Mogri's death was.. oh yeah I wasn't on that wagon was I.

Ns.. well we both pushed him from day one so.

Where does that leave you?


-really going to bed-

[noraaa]

Psyche, I think it's clear (lol) that you're struggling to be understood. I struggle with that similarly, and with you in particular.. I think we hit walls because we think in different styles.

HOWever. You can replace the word feeling with whatever appropriate similar word would make it better for you. What I'm trying to say basically is that throughout this game, you have voted for very poor reasons (if stated). It seemed that if someone said Hey Psyche, vote this guy or Hey Psyche, vote someone randomly right this second, you would do it. And that doesn't sit well with me. You don't seem to make most of your votes for reasons that MATTER to YOU and I don't think a lazy townsman would make that kind of judgement call.

O.o

I voted for BBMolla after making a wallpost case on it.

Redff I voted because of a coming deadline.

Tech stinkin' claimed scum before I voted him.

My mogri vote couldn't be developed because of the reasoning behind it.

And then we have today where I admit my generalized uncertainty.

***

I think that minimally, even as a lazy ass, I might work to do things like ensure that the day doesn't end in a no lynch, vote for players who claim scum, and give at least some input into the game.

I did exactly what a lazy player who still wanted to be IN the game would do.

I lied. Bed after this.

Game won't end in a nolynch and you should be well aware of that.
Voting because of a deadline when you HAVEN'T READ is not really optimal play. If I hadn't read I would say so and catch up before voting unless it was within 5 hours but hey that's me.

Techno you're right, he did claim scum and looked shifty as fuck, but you basically seemed to say "oh fuck they want me to vote and he's throwing it at me ok sure" and I really never got the feeling that you did much thinking about it beyond that. Nor with your hammer of red. "oh shit ok I'll hammer if you want me to"

No clue what you're saying about Mogri.

[noraaa]

Ungh I keep forgetting there were two votes after you, fuck. My assessment of the weirdness of you voting seeminglyjust because still stands, that was how I felt at the time. And deadlines mean squat in this game. I'm sick of talking about the same thing over and over so let's just agree to disagree about how we saw your voting.

I should combine thoughts more when I'm tired but the thoughts come in waves and I don't want to hold the thread up wondering if I might consider something else in a few more minutes.

[noraaa]

You and I certainly have different methods of interpretation.

Why the defense of noraaa?

cause it aint a scumtell, at least for me

it certaintly doesn't look like shes flailing, just attempting to articulate her thoughts

Pretty much. I'd rather post what I have and then add more if it comes to mind than hold onto a post "just in case."

Also did my posting seem scared to you, UN? And where's that reply to my post to you. Your stated reasons I'm supposedly scum are bullshit and you fall under your own umbrella. So if I'm scum for that you're scum for the exact same thing.

Are you scum, UN?

[noraaa]

My assessment of the weirdness of [Psyche] voting seemingly just because still stands, that was how I felt at the time.

Nora, do you not get this same impression from Inte, BK, and/or Pine?

I don't think they're voting the way NS and Psyche were/are. Most of his votes seemed to me like he felt like he had to vote and not because he cared who he was voting. That to me stands out as important. Though I do see some of their voting (esp when they didn't bother to provide why) as potentially opportunistic. Like.. almost every vote NS had. (still annoyed about that)

The three you listed I go very back and forth about but I am glad that the outer two have been posting more because it's helpful. BK barely seems to come up in my memory at all past day one..

I'll agree with you that your vote is groundless and thus subject to as much criticism as a favorite ice cream flavor.

Well since I don't feel that way about my vote on you (which I lifted already if you're following) I guess we don't agree about it do we, sassy mcsnarkypants. We're agreeing to DISagree not that I'm wrong. If you're town then maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm right. And if you're scum I'm right and you want me to think I'm being dumb. Because you don't agree with me doesn't make my reasoning poor. If you can give me a better reason than "it's poor it's poor it's poor" like maybe discuss in more detail how your specific votes were not just "hey Psyche you should vote" "ok sure I pick..

whoever has the most votes right now

". When your actual posts during your votes were often (read:not always, but often) pretty "eh" about the votes you were making. I'm gonna iso you now to see how I feel with a fresh read.

Sigh. I don't care enough about D1 lynches to be too stubborn with my choices. Tomorrow just needs to give me the reads I'm stRved of!

unvote: vote redff

.

Oh, I hate being wrong. Oh, well. At least I was kn the wagon. I'll be rereadingthe thread tonight if I have time.

Wrong about what? You voted the guy who died who turned out to be scum. This makes no sense. And you said already you didn't care about day one, so there's that.

Well. I dunno. I'm usually already on the wagon at this point.

vote TeCh

yeah that's a great reason to vote someone. Cause you're usually already doing it. You later say it's because he claimed scum but why wasn't that anywhere in the post for voting him? You mention that only after people pick at what you said.

Annoying and rude as Psyche is being, he is actually a distant second to Nobody Special.

Mostly because I've been trying to get NS lynched for days and there seems to be a vast right wing conspiracy to keep him alive for some goddamn reason.

Right. Right. Annoying and rude.

I remember the hulk guy noting this, too.

And seriously, I have nothing strong to go off of, so why not that?

vote NS

It's not your vote here that gets me, but that you're using the same kind of "reasoning" that you think I'm using and basically calling me dumb for. Because no matter how many times I tell you that you're mis-labeling why I find it strange, you pretend I'm saying something else.

Honestly after this iso I realize two things. I'm really sick of you saying you'll try and never really trying, so I hope you stay in like you said you would. Cause um, half your iso is excuses and it's really sad. And secondly, while I still feel the same way about your voting "style" it's not as prominently a reason in itself to vote you as my memory had it being.



I have a test to study for tonight so no heavy thinking about this game. Tomorrow I'd like to do a few isos and figure out who I want to vote for. We don't need to keep wasting town lives. While I totally get why they got killed, and I was part of some of that, it puts us in danger if we keep it up.

[noraaa]

Reading that over, my first paragraph could be confusing. The they I'm referring to are the three listed.

[noraaa]

Well I've already addressed those points of yours. And you're still ignoring my direct response and questioning to you regarding your comments about my voting/my comments about my voting/your voting. But sure let's do this.

I wouldn't know how to act smug if I tried, so. You're totally reading my personality wrong. *shrug* Like I said, I'm transparent and I was explaining myself. And again, I've explained why I post like I do and if you notice it's usually pretty consistent that I follow a post with a few more posts after a few minutes go by. Cause I've thought of another thing to say. I'm not going to just not reply because you might think I'm replying too much. That's stupid and pointless. And I don't really see how any of what I said in that first blurb comes across as any of the things you're saying it does.

And the only reason I replied "right after being voted" was because we were both on and so I happened to be around to reply then. Would it feel less scummy to you if there was a page of other stuff before I came in and noticed you posted? Or if someone else had been active and my posts (which were several minutes apart as I was thinking things over) had been thusly spaced out more? Cause if those sorts of variables are all you got, you don't have much.

[noraaa]

you really don't read my posts at all do you.

[noraaa]

Also replying to someone with an explanation isn't really "worried about defending myself"


You quoted the things I wanted replied to, figure it out yourself.

I really don't have the patience to spoonfeed you tonight.

[noraaa]

since UN is incompetent, here you go. If you can't figure it out from here then you're just stupid or faking.


THINGS UN KEEPS IGNORING WHILE ASKING ME TO REPLY TO THINGS AS THOUGH I HAVEN'T ALREADY

actually, now that I look back, you've been on every lynch EXCEPT the time we lynched scum, when you were pushing a counter-wagon. you've hopped back and forth a lot, but so far every wagon you've been on was town, and you conspicuously avoided the redFF lynch and pushed Mogri instead.

Also, not true.

I was against redff, but not sold. When told to put up or shut up against him and Mogri, I chose Mogri in iso.

techno was self explanatory and YOU VOTED HIM TOO.

Mogri's death was.. oh yeah I wasn't on that wagon was I.

Ns.. well we both pushed him from day one so.

Where does that leave you?

Your stated reasons I'm supposedly scum are bullshit and you fall under your own umbrella. So if I'm scum for that you're scum for the exact same thing.

Are you scum, UN?

I have a test to study for tonight so no heavy thinking about this game. Tomorrow I'd like to do a few isos and figure out who I want to vote for. We don't need to keep wasting town lives. While I totally get why they got killed, and I was part of some of that, it puts us in danger if we keep it up.

[noraaa]

figure it out yourself

[noraaa]

pretty cool picture.

you're not stupid. it's not a hard concept. I'm sick of you not using your noodle.



also I'm frustrated as fuck over a lot of things going on irl and I want to go off on you too and I'm trying not to because you really don't deserve that.

[noraaa]

I haven't read anything since my last post but I feel like it's coming up on two days so I should let you guys know I'll check things tonight or tomorrow.

Life got busy.

[noraaa]

back, sorry I got caught up in a lot of shit outside. Read everything, gonna do a couple isos.

To UN-You suck so bad. Loose connection between us? You mean the part where he accused me of not answering something I had answered, so I replied saying I had, and elaborated as well? I love how you selectively read only what you want, reply to what you want, and then use that same method to vote others.

You still haven't answered why you think my voting is scummy and yours isn't, considering my post I repeatedly quoted at you. But that's fine, ignore me, it keeps you on my radar. You're either scum or dense as fuck at this point.

@1464- your attitude is why people respond to you the way they do, not because of their alignment.


Doing isos now.

[noraaa]

Kay let's see. iso'd the ones I was most eh about.

Psyche-

Spoiler:

was really pro-red, I'm confused why he ended up voting him day 1. He said he didn't really care about D1 but if I were pretty sure someone was town I wouldn't vote them based on that. IMO it's not a good reason to disregard a read you actually believed in. If I thought someone was town why would I vote them no matter what outside circumstances were going on? I wouldn't.

He was anti-mogri but so were a lot of people. Mogri's play was messy.

post 1325 sits sits poorly with me. He doesn't get why someone would vote him for that? And he says "once you lynch me or find out my role some other way" which, considering the basic idea we are under for this game, strikes me as.. interesting.

post 1335 using tech's outburst to defend his own overreaction as "not a scumtell"

explaining something is stupid is not explaining why it doesnt work....ok?

consistently talks down to people about their "scumdar" reads to me as trying to throw people off by making them second guess themselves and not very genuine.

post 1373 claims he has not once voted someone based on people wanting him to do so. please explain your vote on red, then. That is exactly what it looks like to me, as I've stated in our previous conversation.

vote explanation for BK seems opportunistic at best.

inte-

Spoiler:

keeps repeatedly saying UN is town
says Psyche town (until psyche flaked)
not into the mogri vote
post 1109 dislikes kairyuu (being replaced)
post 1188 votes mogri even though he considers him a townread

he feels pretty solidly town to me.

Pine-

Spoiler:

thinks Psyche, Blondie/Kairyuu, Mogri scum
thinks Hiraki scum
960 claims town

he talks like town but then.. most of what I just listed makes me think he's not.

bk-
bk-thought red was town, thought Mogri was scum
thinks inte is scummy

not much content, but pushing lynches that are bad

for the moment,

vote BK

petapan-

Spoiler:

smart, but voting all my town reads and people who are dead but ended up town he could be tunnelling on mogri, it happens. but he's also against inte and in 1151 blatantly didn't read a new player's reads. I feel stuck on him.

kairyuu(being replaced so currently moot)-

Spoiler:

I liked but he completely disappeared after pushing that techno thing. His hunting may have been wrong but it seemed logical in nature to me. But honestly the freakout took precedence in my memory over the original post.. I'll hold off judgement until we see a replacement.

UN-

Spoiler:

sometimes obnoxious but seems town, tunnelling on me cause we have different methods. When I saw my post 463 I can see how you'd perceive my posting as coaching, because if I didn't write that post myself and know what I meant from it I would have voted me for it. I'm pretty transparent, I like to lay out my thoughts, so my thoughts will walk stream-of-consciousness through why I think something is scummy/town in nature because honestly I don't know a better way to explain myself. But yeah, that's something I need to work on if it's going to get me caught up in false tunnels like my vote patterns used to.

[noraaa]

my knickers weren't twisted I was isoing like I said I was. I wanted to get a better feel for everyone again.

[noraaa]

if that's true it's horrible but has no bearing on the game. if that's false it's a pretty shitty thing to attach to someone's name even jokingly. unless there's some in-joke I'm not aware of.

stop belittling me. also that wasn't really belittling. panties in a bunch maybe. knickers in a twist is too cute.

[noraaa]

also I can see how you might have missed the iso part, I only mentioned it at the top and bottom of my post.

[noraaa]

*looks at picture*

Oh I'm used to gifs that end/loop after like three seconds so I thought when he rolled back it was over. Honestly thought you were just posting a pic of some dude orgasming.

[noraaa]

I'm not doing this with you again. I laid out my thoughts. Take them, reject them, I don't care.

[noraaa]

cf riot- well I mentioned it if you read my post which it appears you didn't. Psyche wants me to spend two pages arguing with him about how stupid I am for thinking something he does is scummy again.

[noraaa]

some dude orgasming

mind out of the gutter plz, sis... that was a harmless gif. not every sweaty guy is orgasming...
*shiver in disgust

Never said anything of the sort. I just think you're really strange, so. Also I don't get cable or anything so I haven't seen that image a hundred thousand times before.

[noraaa]

Don't forget the part where UN won't reply about my questioning him about it, either, but is using it as half the basis that I'm scum!

[noraaa]

Psyche is basically saying BK is another NS. Which bothers me but I think Psyche is scummy so I won't let it really grab me hard.

Pine has legit said "I am town" and now is telling us exactly how he plays as scum. I find that really weird.

[noraaa]

in other words, my mind is caught up in wifom right now.

[noraaa]

CF, others have agreed with you that that was a scummy move on Psyche's part. I'm not sure why you keep insisting you're the only one thinking that way.

[noraaa]

I'm not acting scummy. I'm being misread as scummy. Deal with it.

Then, if you're correct and you're consistently being misread, you should take that as a serious sign to change your play. Why waste all your time defending yourself against a trait that makes you a target when you could be working on more important things?


Also you need to stop fucking worrying about what is a scumtell or not. Those are changing constantly as they are shown to not have basis across the board. Pine's assertion about your level of statistical relevence was spot-on. There was a reason I told you to look into sociology. They study shit like this for fun and would tell you the same thing. Just look for people who are lying or not making sense and dig from there. Don't worry that someone says x thing and someone else who said x thing once was scum or once was town. It's not consistent across the board. You're getting caught up in the wrong shit.


As far as the BK thing, honestly he hasn't posted a ton to go on.. and I worry that he could be another NS. But what he has posted didn't really sit well with me. He went from thinking red was "kind of scummy" to (in his 16th post) "one of my strongest town reads." Generally I think his iso shows he's kind of trying, when he posts, but all his ideas are dead wrong. So IDK if he's scum or if he's just not very experienced like he told Psyche he was. I'm kind of waffling on him. I am having such a hard time not convincing myself out of someone's scumminess this game after the incidents with NS, Mogri, and Tech.

[noraaa]

UN- do you have any doubts? Like.. that he might be another NS?


incompetent but town?

[noraaa]

... well that was an interesting post.

So, you're not going to try to save yourself at all, then?

Who are the two people you think we should lynch next?

[noraaa]

Psyche, I really think you should reevaluate how you play. Meta isn't the end-all and "scumtells" aren't perfect indicators. Also you're acting really.. well. Teenagery right now. Full of yourself. Just play THIS game as long as you're in it, defend yourself and if you can't convince us someone's scum then try another angle. Don't just keep whining the same story over and over and then give up, and talk to yourself about what you'd do differently next time. Do it THIS time.

If you're town, well then convince us.

[noraaa]

So calling someone full of themselves is condescending?

Also how do I think he's "as good as lynched?" I'm not voting for him AND I implored him multiple times to get back in the game.


Get over yourself.

[noraaa]

If you don't see a pouting tantrum in his last few posts then you're just blind.

[noraaa]

oh, do tell me your scum read on me. Is it based entirely on my supposed attitude, or on those voting patterns that you made up, which I replied to ages ago and repeatedly asked you to respond to because you voted nearly the exact same way yet called me scum for voting that way! (Wow and you've NEVER ONCE EVEN ADDRESSED THAT POINT gee I wonder why)

I answer everything you send my way. Grow up and hunt for scum, instead of tunnelling up my ass because you think I'm pompous. If anyone in this game is a jerk it's you. And unless this is your first game, let me remind you that even if I had been being a twat, attitude has nothing to do with alignment. If it did, I'd have voted you days upon days ago for your severely poor one.



And my god are you asserting that I'm one of the ones that change my votes often? hahahahaha you don't even read half my posts, or reply to me except with snippy bullshit (but I have the attitude), yet you want me dead. Be careful or I'll jump off BK and once I vote you I won't let go. You need to respond to that post of mine that I quoted about three times back a day or so ago, and you need to fucking do it now. Unless you have a really good reason why not to? Since, it's pretty much that and my supposed condescending attitude that have been all I've heard from you.

tl, dr: get off my nuts and fucking give a real case on me or shut the fuck up. After you reply to my nice post that laid out why your "case" on me was fucking retarded, of course.

[noraaa]

PS that's what attitude looks like.

[noraaa]

Um I based my statement on knowing Ythan's personality, by the way.

PS nice of you to completely ignore my post again.

unvote vote UN Let's see which one of us is scum.

[noraaa]

unvote vote UN

ahem, fancy and such.

[noraaa]

Personally I'm waiting for UN to actually tell me why I'm such a big scumread without being willing to actually defend a really horrible case on me that was made days ago, and which I refuted immediately afterwards. All I get is ignored. It makes me want blood, honestly. Cause only someone stupid would be town and not address a blatant lie they used to try to push on me. Idk, maybe UN is an idiot. I'd like to believe otherwise. Which means scum or severely egotistical, or both.

And as for the Psyche thing, I've honestly psyched myself out (no pun intended) and don't know if he's scum or just severely misguided in how he's handling this game. After the last three I'm second guessing the hell out of myself. I really don't want to lynch another townie. I'm not great with math but I'm pretty sure that's a bad thing. I've been going back and forth on like four people this whole game and I can't keep a solid decision on them.

[noraaa]

six out of seven times what, Psyche

You're defending the guy but you don't even read his posts? Cause he's mentioned that several times.

[noraaa]

Which blatant lie? If I get scummy feelings from you I'm not going to be shy about saying it. I've already said I get scummy feelings from you because of the way you talk to people when you seem to be in a more commanding position than them; you speak condescendingly and it doesn't feel right in my tummy tum tum.

That doesn't make me an idiot. But even I was an egotistical idiot, how does that mean I'm scum?

Um, are you serious, cause if so you might have brain damage. I'll explain this once more, just so it's good and out there, because if you ignore it again maybe someone besides me will start to question your motives. I know you're well aware of what I'm talking about, but here you go. Let's pretend you're broken and stupid.

I've only posted the exact post I'm referring to at least three separate times bc you kept ignoring it. Iso me+you and figure it out for yourself. You seem to like having people hand you your answers but I'm not going to again. I already did that for you once before and you ignored it(and that was the second time I'd posted it). I know you're aware of said post because back then and again just a few posts back, you've acknowledged it with a little bit of a patronizing pat on the head and a refusal to answer. Who's the condescending one here? You also often show that you either skim or completely ignore posts from people (most specifically when you didn't notice I was ISOing even though I mentioned it at the top AND bottom of my post, and then again when you had no clue what Psyche meant by 6/7 even though he's been shouting it in almost every post for the last few pages).

You initially called me scum based on my voting patterns. The patterns you listed were NOT TRUE, and when I laid out the real patterns, it seems that you yourself were voting just about the same way I was. So that being said, if I'm scum for that, SO ARE YOU. I've asked you to address this claim many times and you just

blow me off every time

. I'd say that if you completely misrep my voting history then yeah, that's a lie in my book. Not sure why you couldn't just address it. I address things that come to me, and when I'm wrong about a "fact" I own up to it, cause I have no reason to be scared. Maybe you do. The longer you go refusing to deal with it, when I've repeatedly asked you to, the worse you look in my book. But hey, I'm just one vote. As long as you can fool everyone else, you're safe, right? (<--condescending tone, at your service)

As far as attitude goes,

how the fuck do I have power over anyone in this game?

Explain me that one. And while you're at it, explain

why you having an attitude doesn't make you scum, but me having an attitude does.

How on earth can that make sense in your head? I have an attitude when I talk to you, because you're obnoxious, but I actually try to be constructive with Psyche, and I've been trying to keep him in the game mentally, and part of how I play is to lay out my thoughts. First you thought that meant I was coaching him, then you thought that meant I was somehow being condescending to him. If you're town, you suck and you change your story too much.

If you're town,

you should have zero reason not to address this.

Honestly, you

should have the first time

, but the fact that you keep pretending not to know what I'm talking about over and over is making you look really fucking bad IMO, and honestly, you're playing to the stereotypes of your avatar a little too hard, don't you think? (Think about it yourself, I'm not going to spoonfeed you the joke either.)

My apologies if you actually are retarded. I feel my vote on you is well-placed.

[noraaa]

tl, dr. You're not scum for voting me, you're not even scum for voting me for a dumb reason, but you might be scum for lying about my play and then ignoring me when I refuted it.

[noraaa]

yeah pretty much I'm pissed that you completely laughed at me and ignored me when I replied to your "case" on me. Even when I repeatedly mentioned it, pasted in the appropriate posts to make it super easy for you, and so on. It just really got me pissed, to be honest. I mean, if you think I'm scum based on something I do, fine. If you think I'm scum based on something I don't do, or something you also do, or both.. then we have serious issues.


Sorry if I got too vitriolicious for you. Read 1394. PS you have a problem sorting out personality/scumminess. I'm sure it gets you into trouble a lot. You accuse Pine, for example, of being scum sometimes based off of actual things he did, and sometimes based off of "I don't like his attitude" just like you're doing with me. But if someone does it to you, you correctly identify that that's a really dumb reason to say someone's scum for. In fact, I noticed that you do that a lot in general.. you will accuse people of doing things that you also do, but it's not scummy if you do it. It's tunnelly and bad play, at best.





I'm too on the fence to change my vote right now. I feel like everyone is scum then five minutes later I think what if they're just that bad, or just that inattentive. NS really had a lasting effect on my brainwaves. I will say that although I can totally see Psyche as scum just as much as I can see him as town.. idk I could go either way they both (BK and Psyche) could go either way. I feel like I'm in a newbie game or something everyone in this game was supposed to be really good (or so I figured) and I wouldn't have to do this "scum or suck/don't care" thing I get caught up in. What do you do when you're stuck and you've already re-iso'd three times?

[noraaa]

What do you do when you're stuck and you've already re-iso'd three times?

fall into a well of despair and siteflake

But that's not practical, so let's talk. Who are your strongest reads (town or scum)?

ung. you guys are doing a lot of flipflopping. It's weird for people so confident of their reads to have that problem.

petapan- I'll get back to you on that. I have a searing headache for the second straight day and I just can't. If I had to vote one of the two right now... I guess BK. But I'm not really sure why BK didn't just replace out if he didn't want to play a game.. and

he's escaping chances to leave the game on his own terms while asking us to vote him. That seems like a false way to lure us into complacency about him.

so I guess I'll drop UN for the moment and do my job before exiting the game for another day.

unvote vote bk

[noraaa]

it died in the crash, brother.

[noraaa]

I voted the way I voted because I hadn't been around in two days, I knew I might miss the end of the day, and I wasn't doing my duty to town by stubbornly voting UN. If you think that's "wagon hopping" then you're entitled to your opinion.

[noraaa]

Also that part where I italicized why I chose to vote BK right there should answer why I chose to vote BK right there, Matias.

[noraaa]

Yeah...redff and BK were on the same team, and probably isolated from the rest of the scum.

so are you saying you think there are multiple two-person teams?

[noraaa]

UN, do you think the Blue Mafia has more than a couple of players? Or is my idea of color-coding working as an indicator of multiple teams invalid?

I literally just asked you the same thing and you dodged the half of it relating to how MANY members of the team(s) there might be in your estimation. Why do you deserve answers when you don't give them?

X.X

Okay, so that's both UN and noraaa who actively reject external attempts to evaluate their reads.

Am I the only one who sees things like these as a problem?

I can't speak for UN but I don't do this. I just get sick of going round and round with you when you decide that my reasoning is inherently flawed because you said so. So the second time I skipped that part.

[noraaa]

But it wasn't that I just said so. I explained WHY. And you brushed it aside and said, "I'm getting annoyed."

not right away, but after it was clogging up the game and I was saying my piece in twenty different ways and you still didn't agree, then yeah. Cause of course you're never going to agree that you're scummy. I figured it wasn't worth fighting about it cause we weren't going to see eye to eye.


Also um, are you not noticing the part where I said "two person teams" and then the part where I said "how MANY" people are on these team(s)? Cause you're totally acting like you don't get that part.

Maybe I was unclear initially but I was asking
a)do you believe there are teams plural
b)do you believe these teams are two person teams

[noraaa]

psyche why does what color another team would be make any difference? it's just an arbitrary thing. If you disagree, explain why? And is purple your favorite color or something? Or is that a crumb for after your scum team gets caught?


Pine-
Considering that I thought mogri was, at the time "the scummier of the two" between him and red (during my iso), and so voted him D1, and that I was on BK most of day 5 until I switched over to UN for a bit, I'm not sure why you'd think that. But those are the only connections I see between us except for the fact that BK kept thinking I was scum for being conversational and "apologetic" and "forced" in my conversation D1. It's up to you, but I'm not scum, dude. How have your reads changed over this last day? Are you still heavy on inte, or has he taken a less prominent place in your mind? Will UN's alignment reveal Psyche's alignment to you regardless of how UN flips?


My current thoughts:
Of our lurkers we've killed two. One was town, one was scum. There remains Hiraki, Matias, crypto, petapan, and defender with 3s that come and go whenever they feel like it. Of those, petapan does the most actual content. Defender replaced someone that I thought was bad and others think was bad/scummy and then another person who ran a super fast train on town and then bounced. I think that is enough to make him worthy of speculation. Hiraki and Matias both come in, make a comment or two, then bounce. crypto goes in the middle, he's goldilocks' baby bear.

UN- can you explain what you were trying to get across with those vote counts? I really don't know how to read that kind of stuff. All I got was that you were coloring in town as green and scum as blue. I don't know what I'm looking for so I gave up trying to read them. You can insult me for being dumb or you can just answer it so I can take another look. Thanks.

[noraaa]

oh and cf riot

[noraaa]

I'm pretty sure that this is Ythan's third nightless, and in one he had daytalk and in the other he did not. So it could go either way. We discussed this day one, people.

Pine- I'm sorry if you consider replying to someone who speaks to you as "pointedly protesting" but ok.


I don't think we should lynch someone in one real-time day so I'm gonna let you guys talk a little more before I decide if I'm voting Psyche or not. I go back and forth on him too much. On the one hand, he does come off way scummy sometimes. But on the other hand, the way he thinks is really strictly laid out and so idk which it is, scum, or stubbornthinking. I am really thrown off by how sure UN was that Psyche was scum, then how sure he was that Psyche was town, and now back to scum. It's a little strangely offputting. I've been trying to read UN based on his interactions with Psyche lately and it's throwing a wrench in my brain.

[noraaa]

UN you know that means I'm more likely to vote you not less likely, right? cause it flummoxes my town read on you?

[noraaa]

Because you didn't seem to get that from my original post.

Just to let you guys know, I'm going to be hardcore v/la from pretty much Wednesday till Monday. I'll be at a festival and I don't plan on using my phone for internet.

[noraaa]

Pine- I'm pretty sure there was a nightless he did without daytalk, like I said. Not that it really answers the question whether this one does.


I feel like half the people on Psyche are my scum reads and half of them are my town reads and I really don't want to rush into something dangerous. But on the other hand, it would give us information even if the flip was town. We can't especially afford town losses though. I'm gonna go think for an hour or so. I don't expect anyone who isn't already on his wagon to show up now. And we have plenty of time not to rush this.

pedit- wow ok cf comes in. UM did you read my post's mind?

[noraaa]

I'm down with that. I thought Blondie was just new and stupid, I thought Kairyuu was good with words and until he flaked (nearly immediately after running fast and hard on tech) wasn't really suspicious of him, but I haven't liked Defender's input at all. I don't think there's anything lost if we go in that direction. I'm not super into voting Psyche because I go back and forth on him too much. I think the lurkers need to get some more action than they have been getting.

vote defender

[noraaa]

I could go defender or hiraki.

vote defender

UN, thank you for showing us all indisputably how bad you are at reading people. For like, the one or two people it wasn't obvious to.

[noraaa]

stop calling him max he's peta in here.

[noraaa]

he's mocking you, you're potentially causing confusion. Difference.


ps your assumed insult is wasted on me because I don't know who that person is so suck it. And a simple google search doesn't do squat so I really don't care if you want to further mock me for not knowing. At least I'm not a cheerleader for scum to win the game. We're all dumbasses but you're pristine in your tower of stubborn idiocy, right?

After your play just a few pages ago, what makes you so sure Pine's vote is an omgus? maybe it's really OH MY GOD, you SUUUUUCK. Learn to play as a team and not as a "I'm right vote how I say or die." Especially when you're.. not right... over and over. Reevaluate your skillset, and learn to compromise. Especially when you can't even keep what you think is right straight from day to day. I'm really not interested in any of your reads for the rest of the game, honestly. Unless you can learn to get over yourself and grow from your mistakes. If that wasn't scum play back there, it was abysmal tantrum town play.

[noraaa]

wait so you can call people by other names, and you can bash them, but if anyone does it to you you're reporting them?

ok sure UN. You're a peach.


Aren't you curious as to why defender hasn't come in at all to.. defend.. himself?

[noraaa]

...

[noraaa]

I'm not. If you lynch me and lose the game while I'm at bonnaroo I'm gonna be pissed.

[noraaa]

Hiraki thinks crypto wants me dead bc he has no reading comprehension... therefore -I figure- he's thinking "well if me, crypto, and of course pine and UN will vote nora, then I can go get Pine and or UN later.. and knock two more people off my list"

[noraaa]

Hiraki I think it's interesting that you and I are the only two people (I think) who aren't against inte. Which makes me want to reevaluate my town read on him but he's not on the block today so if he's still alive and i'm still alive when I get back Monday then we'll see what's up then.

[noraaa]

Oh and Matias is pseudo-town for going against statements that buddied him with Psyche. It's not 100% definite, but I'm ready to say GG if Matias is scum.

um.

wait are you saying that Matias came out against being close to Psyche and therefore that makes him town? (gonna iso Matias but if that's the correct logic you're using that would make Matias scummier. That plus his entire lack of attention to this game but I guess that's just standard at this point.

[noraaa]

Nora you still think UN is town?

IDK is UN usually a horrible, horrible player? Cause if so, then yeah, he's town. If not, then he's scum. I've felt he was either being very tunnelly dumb or very manipulative all day, and he certainly pushes hard and fast but I think that's just his personality. I think to get a better idea I'll have to meta besides just iso.

So I need to check up on Matias and UN. I leave sometime tomorrow so I'm trying to cover bases before I go.

[noraaa]

all day should be all game

[noraaa]

So there's two ways to read what Defender said. Either "where did I mess up?" or "show me what I said that you're construing as a scumtell?"


And depending on which side you read it as when you read it, you're going to think he's scummy or townie, and you're going to think anyone who read it the other way is scummy. I know that I personally would say something like the second one, but I'd word it more closely to how I did word it than to how he worded it. Which makes his original statement still so vague. I think that the general flow of that slot has been bad and it's not super likely that three people in a row would set off so many alarms if they were a town slot. Therefore I'm pretty content to stick with the hypothesis that Defender is scum.

[noraaa]

back. Looks like you guys did really well in my absence. I'll try to catch up tonight but if I don't I'll be full-in by tomorrow.

[noraaa]

hey so, here are my thoughts, my replies to questions pertaining to my loyalties, and my iso of CF (had to after reading the last like ten pages)

-the two people who thought I was scummiest all game were each scum themselves. My interactions with UN were a combination of frustration, trying to get him to back up his reasons I was scum (and getting closer to the vote button every time he ignored it), and honestly, I got caught up in arguing like babies. The people who now think I'm scum are most strongly, Pine and CF. So, yeah. Look into THAT if you guys end up deciding to be stupid and lynch me before those two flip.

The interaction between Blonde Doctor and Noraaa strongly link them in my mind.

As far as my "associations" with Blondie go, I've stated from the beginning that she reminded me of a really shitty newbie player, like I was. I think that when the confirmation that I'm being honest about why I thought she was town is so easy to find, it's really interesting not to look into it. Anyone want to read me in my first game? Myself and Hiraki (both town) whined and moaned at each other for pages and pages (another good tell that he wasn't town this game since he was mostly silent) and he should have known better but I was tunnelling on him the way (i thought) Blondie was tunnelling on Matias.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

bk had thought i was too conversational and too "quick to defend myself" without answering questions.. which. a)why single me out as the conversational one when others were as well, b)as always, i reply to things about me, I feel that's prudent c)i totally answered the questions and even went into more detail when it was considered that I hadn't.

I really can't say much more than I have about BK. I mostly thought he was scummy all game, I mentioned it a few times, I voted him until that UN shit where I was getting ignored (thank you guys for killing that fuck).. and I can't help that someone who is scum wants to call me scummy. I'm gonna lolnothanks to them all day. I don't force my responses, and I'm really not sure how his supposed reasoning that I was scummy wouldn't get eyerolled by everyone here. But then, maybe you're using his shitty "hunting" to reason me dead. Which I can understand but obviously not get behind. If you kill me off then we can't kill the real scum.


-Good job getting the scum, guys. The only one that surprised me was inte, but like I said before I left, the way Hiraki was defending him really made me wonder. And of course Kairyuu before he disappeared.. I really need to learn the difference between important sounding lies and important sounding truths. But I play to get better at picking apart shit like this, so.

Also thanks for letting me not get killed while I was gone. Realllly appreciate that. Sorry I didn't make an official in-thread post but I mentioned it was coming several times beforehand, so. Time got away from me.


-Right now I'm leaning toward CF as I read, Pine and crypto have that "probably town but if they're scum I swear to god.." vibe going on for me, peta is damn near confirmed for me, and matias.. is.. well. Somewhere floating in space. Still gotta do that iso of him. And now CF. He's pushing on me based off highly circumstantial evidence which I've explained multiple times in thread and now am linking you more information about. And he seems to come in and parrot a lot. He even straight up said he'd vote whoever the majority wanted for the rest of the game because of his bad track record, then tries to push Pine's wagon on me. Which honestly doesn't sit well to me. He can't even come up with his own reasons to vote someone? (self-pedit: by the end of this writeup I no longer believe Pine to be so townish)

Really interested in knowing how much Pine thinks I'm scum (based off Blondie associations) after he skims that link from my first game, like he will cause he's a good townsman, right?

The first page says we have killed three blue and three red. So, was UN being totally scumdroppy when he said there are five members of one of the teams? He did get really bold with his scum crumbs at the end there, I notice. Or are there four and four, or just one more? Like. Do we have one more dude or two? If we have two I wanna guess CF and one of Pine, Matias, crypto. Like I said two are wild cards leaning town and the other is just.. there.

CF, post 1136

"I <3 Kairyuu back, but kind of resent him for saying everything I'm thinking about Mogri before my first post. We'll look like buddying now. That's okay, for now he town reads and I never noticed much about B.Doc."

-highly suspects peta at this point

later in post:

"Kairyuu's gunna hate me but 1104 tl;dr. I got your top 4 scumspects out of the deal, that's good enough for me. Mine at this point are almost the same, different order."

In post 1440, crypto wrote:

"[We should vote] The dudes who weren't voting [RedFF] at the time of his lynch, I mean."

In post 1454, CF replied:

"This is Kairyuu(B.Doc), Matias, Nora, BK, and Pine. Speaking strictly for myself, the first three on that list are giving more town vibes than anything. BK and Pine are on my possible scumlist"

I agree that Matias or Pine -could- be a final scum. Also here he thought I was town.

post 1448, CF

"Matias read the last two pages then vote Psyche right now.

Also his scumbuddies are Pine and Peta. Psychic powers ftw."

Here he still felt Pine was scum, also peta was scum.

post 1494, CF

"...and what does Psyche do? Makes up the most contrived bullcrap reason to vote someone I have ever seen based on one post he made way back on day 2. Not only that, he doesn't even do a good job of it because he says the tell has the reliability of a coin flip. You can even see the guilt all over his little emoticon face right now. Psyche knows he screwed up. You all know he screwed up. And I know he screwed up. Case closed."

That reminds me, Psyche was dead set that Pine was scum. He was right about bk. It's worth considering.

post 1515, CF

"How is no one else having a red flag reaction to Psyche's BK vote?"
"Am I really the only one bothered by this?"

He tends to claim to be the only one thinking things more than once in this game, I noticed. He's gonna do it again in a minute, just watch. The other two who claimed that sort of thing were inte and UN. Just sayin.

post 1832, CF

"Pine and Hiraki have been holding hands on every wagon all game. I can hardly imagine I'm the only one that's noticed this. I wifom myself out of believing scum would be that obvious though."

If you still believe this, why aren't you pushing Pine hard now that you know how Hiraki flipped? In fact, why are you taking his reasoning that I'm scum instead of pushing him if he's still a read of yours? Super curious for those answers please.

post 2140, CF

"Peta/Crypto/Matias lylo endgame, who wins?"

I find it really interesting that he thinks those three are the endgame. Why Matias over himself? If he thinks Pine must be town (post 2035- "Hiraki or Pine but not both") then why not Pine in endgame? Why this post at all? It's really weird. As is his response regarding its purpose (2142).

post 2149, CF

"Nora then Pine. The other 3 of you are too close to call. I haven't suspected Matias all game but the 4/4 scum genocide seems more of a credit to Peta/Cryp than Mat."

okay so now he thinks Pine is scum again. What GIVES, man? First he's scum, then he's not scum if Hiraki is, then he's pretty town and you're using his logic to vote me (who you haven't really said shit about all game until now, btw), and now you want him dead after me? Yeah ok.

post 2163, CF

"Crypto tell me the advantage to a Matias lynch over a Nora lynch."

dude will you just pick someone to suspect and stick with them? seriously this is getting a little silly.

post 2187, CF

"I thought about it and I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Nora cause I think she could come out and champion a scum lynch and I'd still suspect her the next day b/c at this point its gotta be level grounds for everyone. No scumbuddies left but both camps still in play means everyone is genuinely scumhunting now, so that's no longer town points. I can't really think of anything she could do to change my mind."

what do any of those words even mean? seriously. so suddenly after all this red scum got taken up you feel that I'm scum, and your only real reason is that you agree with Pine. And that I'm so scummy that even if I personally beat a scum (really can't help that I wasn't here for UN lynch but I was visibly to the best of my ability trying to handle him all game) with great logic it wouldn't change your mind? You used the same excuse with Psyche, please don't recycle your answers.

And honestly, unless I'm mistaken (I don't have a strong mechanical background)(I'm addressing this here bc of your "no scumbuddies left but both camps still in play" comment here, combined with your later post that I quote where you mention your endgame player list), we don't know if there's 0/1, 0/2, or 1/1 (team a / team b) scum left for sure. But you're sure there's "no scumbuddies left but both camps still in play." This has obviously left the realm of a regular nightless game setup already, as evidenced by Pine's "10/3/3 is pretty standard" post so how can you be sure that there's 1/1 left? And if so, and if you think one of them is me, and one of them is Pine or Matias, but you want- as you mention later- Matias to be endgame, then you seem to be contradicting your own logic. Cause if Pine and I are the scum, and we die, then all three of them would win as town. And if Pine and Matias, or myself and Matias are scum, why would you want Matias in endgame? You really need to stick to a supposed read, please. If you think he could be the scum you do not want him in endgame. Unless you're scum and you want an "in."

"b/c at this point its gotta be level grounds for everyone. No scumbuddies left but both camps still in play means everyone is genuinely scumhunting now, so that's no longer town points."

please, please elaborate on this. If it's "level ground" for everyone (which why would it have to be? Are you saying you want us to pretend the rest of the game didn't happen and start reads fresh, cause.. that's pretty dumb), and everyone is "genuinely scumhunting now" then WHAT exactly is "no longer town points"? Sorry, I hate ambiguous pronouns. And from the looks of it, you're saying that I've been scumhunting but that's not good enough anymore? Gee I'm sorry that I'm not a master sleuth, but I think I've been doing as well as I could have been.

crypto- sorry I guess that I suck so bad that you think I'm scum now.

everyone who tried to say I was "suspiciously quiet all of a sudden" without checking my post history, or say.. looking even a few pages back to see the big VLA on my account or the multiple mentions that I'd be gone soon for a few days.. Shame on you and one of you is probably scum.

Pine is town

this could be telling. Pine was pretty against inte all game but not enough to really push for a lynch, if I am recalling correctly. Could be a red dude. Wouldn't surprise me too hard if Pine and UN were fucking with us during that last little exchange they had. Double WIFOM, as it were.

Pine, in 2085 you say "generally scummy behavior and opportunism." by myself. Oh please do explain. What opportunism, and why haven't we been talking about it more? Why didn't you join BK and UN in pushing for my Perhaps you wanted to agree lightly so that you could use it later, but not tie yourself too closely to your teammates.

I think at this point I could go either way with Pine/CF but after all that shit I just typed up I feel like CF is how I want to go atm.

vote CF

[noraaa]

I can see being willing to lay down your life in order to secure a good analysis (once I flip it should be helpful, if it comes to that, which I hope it doesn't) but you seriously are just like.. "ok sure whatever" about being lynched?

Time for that iso I never got around to, I guess.

Matias's general eh attitude this whole game has me curious if that's standard for him regardless of alignment. So I'm gonna look into all that before I decide how I'm voting. I'll try to be quickish besides, I have a paper to write today so I'll be off and on anyway.

[noraaa]

Lost track of my iso bc I started my paper.. but just wanted to say that usually he seems way more involved as town and even under his old account I can't seem to find any recent scum history so I really don't know how he plays as scum. But before looking at outside meta his iso struck me as townish, albeit very distracted.

[noraaa]

I'm never believing someone is having personal reasons why they can't post much ever again.

[noraaa]

well unless this is the most elaborate trap ever, I'll follow you here. I still am iffy about both CF and Pine so I'm fine to go either way.

vote Pine

The closer we get to endgame the more I worry that crypto is pulling the wool so far over my eyes.. but I think it's just paranoia based on the fact that if he's scum I know I'll never be able to read him.

[noraaa]

I'm not scum but that last thing CF said really rubs me the wrong way.

[noraaa]

if you guys have to kill me to find the real scum that's only ok with me if you ferret out who my flip would mean must be scum. At this point if it would stop town from killing itself I'd take one for the team, as it were.

obs if Pine flips town then my assessment would be CF or crypto for scum, as I feel peta has either the most ingeniously elaborate scum plan or is a really good hunter.

CF has been saying really weird shit lately so I feel he's worse than crypto,

crypto doesn't put out much to go off of but I tend to automatically trust him, which is obviously bad if he's been scum all along.

[noraaa]

Can we talk about who dies after I flip townie then? Cause I'm only going down without a fight if we do that first.

[noraaa]

blue doesn't necessarily know who red is, so while that's interesting to note, it doesn't confirm you in my eyes. they could have just been sharing the same fake read.

and no, we haven't explicitly discussed exactly what to do when I flip town to ensure that we don't all lose the game.

[noraaa]

wow im stupid ok.

I totally just got that. I had the colors reversed in my head-scenario.



Sure. Then you're fine with me.

[noraaa]

You're about to let crypto steal the game.

Vote crypto.

[noraaa]

never mind i'm dead sorry.

[noraaa]

lurk less.


that goes for errybody

[noraaa]

man that avi is pretty as shit.