Micro 214 -- Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

VOTE: hohum

Joined for you, bud.


I am on vacation and a sudden family situation has cropped up, so I may be scarce. I may not, depending on how things play out, but jut a heads up.

[Amrun]

What have you heard about him?

[Amrun]

VOTE: alexcellent

[Amrun]

My vote is not because yay wagons. It's because yay scum.

[Amrun]

He is, though.

[Amrun]

That sequence of posts makes more sense now, given that.

[Amrun]

vote: runnerman

[Amrun]

VOTE: runnerman

[Amrun]

Runnerman, what is your mafia experience?

[Amrun]

Falcon, answer my question to you?

Runnerman, what do you mean by "looking for people reads?"

[Amrun]

Runnerman, you mean everyone should be open like you and say "I think this guy looks like scum?" Wow, what a fascinating thought process...


Also if we could stop using chainsaw incorrectly, that would be great.

[Amrun]

@JK: a chainsaw defense is something you need flip to dind in hindsight.I get that you're speculating on the possibility of a chainsaw, but it's so arbitrary that you could say it about almost anyone or anything.

[Amrun]

Jk: Yes, I suppose.

Falcon: Answer my question.

[Amrun]

Runnerman, why did jmatthews "look like a wolf" to you?

[Amrun]

Runnerman, why did jmatthews "look like a wolf" to you?

[Amrun]

Unvote

Vote: Falcon

[Amrun]

Three guesses.

[Amrun]

The jury is still out, but I like how you're thinking.

[Amrun]

For the record, runnerman, I completely agree with you about echoing thoughts being a town tell. But not all people think like you, so not doing so isn't really a scum tell. You also need to be careful of your position in the game and be suspicious of people replicating your thoughts on purpose.

However, why wouldn't jk make a post like that as scum? Do you not think scum can make cases?

[Amrun]

Why is gloating town?

[Amrun]

For someone who thinks transparency = town, you're not being very transparent.

[Amrun]

You're actually NOT trying. It's a very simple, a-b-c question. If you were interested in being read correctly, as you professed, you would answer it. You have done this several times now, and your professed methods do not match up to what you're actually doing. Some things make me think you're town, but things like this do not.

[Amrun]

Narrow, where is my fighting falcon case? Quote it. Why did you unvote without replacing a vote?

VOTE: alexcellent

"Appearing scummy" vs. "scummy"

[Amrun]

Narrow, I totally read that post backwards, disregard.

Saying I've been "flufflposting" is not a case, though. It's also not remotely true.

[Amrun]

It is day 1, we're on page 6, and OGML began the game on v/la and hohum is returning from v/la. That's no excuse for your shit of an ISO.

Fucking hell, I need another vote.

[Amrun]

Yes.

[Amrun]

No, I'm not. You have 1-2 content posts at most and they're weak.

[Amrun]

VOTE: jake

Just remembered your replace in to HP. Night and day. Last time you were quiet and confused you were scum.

[Amrun]

It's 7 pages.

[Amrun]

You weren't caught up yet then either iirc and it was a pretty recent game.

[Amrun]

Harry Potter.

[Amrun]

Obviously you were town... I said your play was different in that game, and them voted you. ???

[Amrun]

Is don me? I am using more than one game. In meme mafia you were scum, and you were quiet and confused.

The "why would I replicate it when I was nk" thing is totally confusing. I still don't know why you were nk that game; it was a super weird kill. But being nk itself means you are doing your job as town right.

[Amrun]

You were very quiet in meme mafia, and my whole vote isn't based off of meta anyway of at least very much. Most of it isn't, in fact. You defended against a poor ISO by saying "I'm a replacement!" This doesn't make sense in such a short game to begin with, but I have experience with you to know that being a replacement is not a real hindrance to you anyway. And then you try to say your ISO isn't shit but that wasn't your first reaction which is strange.

[Amrun]

Hohum is town, hooray.

[Amrun]

Wrong.

[Amrun]

Also people using 1v1 wrong annoys me.

[Amrun]

No, you are, actually. 1v1 is only a thing when there's very solid evidence one of the two is scum. You could easily both he town (or even both scum).

[Amrun]

You have a very loose interpretation of "solid evidence."

That being said...

VOTE: Alexcellent

[Amrun]

What did "recognizing it" mean to you, Falcon?

[Amrun]

I find myself not giving a rat's ass, OMGL.

(Hint: see how many town games I get asked what the point of my questions are.)

[Amrun]

More to the point, you should know that, OMGL.

[Amrun]

You need a flip to call it a chainsaw, sorry u wrong

And ftr, I ask questions as scum too. My point is it's just playstyle.

[Amrun]

You can speculate on the possibility of a chainsaw without a flip but it's nothing but speculation.

[Amrun]

That deflection from Jkm was pretty gross.

[Amrun]

A) OMGL makes a standard post about Alexcellent saying that he thinks the arguments against him are more about finding fault with his play than determining alignment. (FTR, even though I am currently voting alex, I've been playing a little close to my chest and I thin this is a good comment from OMGL.) JKM misrepresents this post poorly, but essentially what he's doing even if it's a genuine misunderstanding is detracting from OMGL's discrediting of the cases against Alex. This is a deflection because it encourages attention away from JKM and into Alex. This one isn't super gross because I can see this also coming from town JKM, but it exists.

B) JKM's response to OMGL's vote switch away from me and onto JKM is what is so gross. It feels really slimey.

[Amrun]

He never said the arguments against Alex were bad. I explained it pretty clearly before and I don't know how to explain it any more.

For the latter, what you said was, essentially, that OMGL had "suddenly" changed his opinion, discrediting both his change in opinion and his possibly credible reasons for changing his vote. Your intent to look like you are just asking perfectly reasonable questions was not successful. You were poisoning the well, subtly making OMGL for switching his vote onto you without actually commenting on his alignment. It's very careful. It's very crafty. And what's more, this is a general trend in the game following just about every vote on you.

Actually, you know what.

VOTE: jkmatthews

[Amrun]

You can make perfectly sound arguments for why someone is scum and still not be interested in their alignment.

Of course I don't KNOW what you were doing. Do I have to be so redundant as to re-state that it is my opinion every five seconds?

To reiterate, you were both subtly discrediting OMGL while simultaneously trying to redirect OMGL's negative attention back onto me. That's very scummy.

[Amrun]

I'm not at all arguing over the definition of the word bad. And, once again, OGML wasn't even talking about Alexcellent himself. He said the arguments for Alexscum looked like scum arguments -- this was CLEAR from his post -- and then proceeded to name Alex's top two detractors as scum reads (me and you). Your response was to try and stop OMGL from internally clearing Alex as town because of this, which has obvious scum motivation.

I suspect you because this behavior is a consistent pattern across the thread, which is consistent with a scum agenda and image consciousness, but do you think I expect to convince you to vote yourself or something? Wtf is that?

Your own narrative of what you were doing just doesn't make sense. It was not a sudden switch. From the get go, OMGL's two top suspects have been me and you. It is not a sudden cause for concern, or a strange 180, that after a line of inquiry with me (or even none at all), he should switch his vote to you.

[Amrun]

You're right; I could have spoken a little clearer. My point is that you're arguing with his townread in a weird way. You're not saying, "the arguments are good" (when he never said they were bad in the first place), you're saying "even though the arguments are bad, that doesn't mean alex is town."

I'm actually very free of confirmation bias this game. That's not to say I'm not afflicted by it from time to time, but not this game. I'm pretty emotionally unattached as of yet. The thing is that you keep accusing me of it, which is pretty weird for someone with his vote on me. Only town can have confirmation bias. You've also just said I'm scumhunting.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. Your espoused views don't reflect what I'd expect of time. They're hedging. Alex's "getting into the game" post was met with a "well he seems better, but maybe he's trying to manipulate me," giving him a townread but leaving a foot in the door to scumread him again later. You try to discredit OMGL while trying to manipulate his vote at the same time.

[Amrun]

What exactly am I "suffering" from? How?

(Fair enough about the scumhunting comment.)

[Amrun]

I doubt I would be the veto in this situation, actually. (Man, to one group of players, I'm the weak link easy lynch, and to the other, I'm an intimidating lynch. How weird.) It depends on who the scum is. If JKM is scum it's possible, though.

If Falcon is scum, OMGL is almost certainly a chosen one.

[Amrun]

I get lynched a lot. Any game with an exclusively older crowd means I'm on the rocks from page 1. They read my playstyle as pretty scummy, among other things.

My point is I'm not a universally intimidating player, and with OMGL and hohum in the game (and even you since you're an alt) it's probably not me.

[Amrun]

For example, in my "best town" scummy I was lynched Day 1 for the only town lynch of the game. -.- People scumfucked onto my wagon, though, which is part of what made the game so cake after that.

[Amrun]

I forgot you were a replacement, jake.

Falcon, what is your experience with mafia?

[Amrun]

Hohum wasn't lurking then, and that anger is a town tell, not a scum tell.

[Amrun]

Anger isn't a tell either way, and he was NOT lurking.

But this particular set of anger on hohum was townish. I know him better than you.

[Amrun]

He wasn't. He sort of is now, but that's pretty normal for him.

[Amrun]

JKMatthews is an excellent lynch.

[Amrun]

I don't like the "I may be wrong but" qualifiers. Gah conflictions.

[Amrun]

Where is runnerman now that the pressure is off?

[Amrun]

Yes, but saying so right there is overkill. You were just saying he was your strongest scum read -- that's already an equivocation, far from an absolute, so further qualifiers sits uneasily with me.

[Amrun]

Jk, what are your odds on an Alex scum flip?

Who's the scumteam?

[Amrun]

If my chances of flipping scum are high, and Alex's chances of flipping scum are not high, why are you voting for Alex?

[Amrun]

Jake, why aren't I full of shit?

[Amrun]

You just called JKM's other detractors full of shit but not me.

[Amrun]

No, I actually felt a bit town about KK's early posting tbh. His later posting is quite scummy, though.

[Amrun]

Well I was reading them from the perspective of Alex-scum at the time. OMGL wasn't and Alex wasn't, if town, so that's a departure. Plus if I'm right then someone cottoning on sooner isn't exactly weird.

[Amrun]

Ha, well I would be down for a lynch that kept me alive, and I think there's a good chance Amrun is scum, but I'd rather the Alex lynch...

Jk, what are your odds on an Alex scum flip?

Who's the scumteam?

Eh, not high, but I've been pretty focused elsewhere for most of this game, so they're the highest I've got. 30-40%?

Too hard to put a decent idea together (It's after 2am here for a start), but there are lots of people it could be really so I wouldn't like to say...

I may be back with a better answer once I've slept, but no promises...

[Amrun]

They could be scum together. Their interactions are weird.

[Amrun]

Oh nvm, forgot about 145. Only one scum in the pair.

[Amrun]

What why not JKMatthews?

[Amrun]

Was it?

Oh.


But that is not what good chance means.

[Amrun]

Oh. Yay!

That was not a town reaction to a hammer <3

[Amrun]

FYI if you aren't scum. Someone can make a good case and still be wrong.

If Jk is indeed town your hammer was horrible

Whether or not I'm scum shouldn't change whether or not the hammer was horrible. If you think the hammer's horrible, even if I'm scum it's a horrible hammer that got lucky...

This is a scum claim, yes?

P-edit: be trolling be trolling be trolling

[Amrun]

No the whole post was scummy. So I still have hope.

[Amrun]

If you were going to do something productive you would have done it.

P-edit:

Omg still town either way. If JKM town, I will be power wagoning falcon tomorrow.

If falcon scum, OMGL is obvious chosen one.

[Amrun]

I didn't say he was OBV town. He's only OBV town if falcon flips scum.

I think he's town but I don't expect everyone to know it unless falcon flips scum and then if you were to vote OMGL after that you would be stupid.

[Amrun]

Yeah, I didn't say OBV town. OMGL's alignment isn't tied to JKM's in any significant way

[Amrun]

No it isn't.

[Amrun]

If it isn't obvious, I was probing you about your pre-game conception of OMGL to see if you would have chosen him if you were scum and the answer is clearly "yes."

And of course I'm setting up future lynches. It's twilight and JKM has said he's town. There's an outside chance of trolling but he's probably telling the truth. I'm going to share my reads in twilight. That's what any non-idiotic town would do.

[Amrun]

I really don't care about your hammer. My reasoning has very little to do with jake's.

[Amrun]

Teehee. No.

[Amrun]

Asking for him to be replaced is pretty fucking shitty. Don't try and excuse it.

That being said, children behave and stop talking to each other. It's twilight. Go to bed.

[Amrun]

CHILDREN. BEHAVE.

[Amrun]

Great game, guys!

I was sooooo annoyed that you did not IMMEDIATELY powerlynch F-16, either

a) Day 2, after I was nightkilled. (This is not a capital offense, but it's obviously what I wanted to do anyway, lol)

b) AFTER OMGL FLIPPED CHOSEN TOWNIE.

How much more obvious can it get??????????????????????????lskfja;sldfkja;sdfkljds

[Amrun]

The way you opened the game and addressed him. I FIGURED IT OUT MANGZ. One of those rare moments of clarity!

[Amrun]

I must say I would definitely have gone after you. It is a rare treat to be so right. Doesn't happen that often!