Shadow's terminally happy Newbie 1451 game over,mod exploded

[emeraldemon]

Skip to next vote count.

1) I am still feeling bad about tiershift+d_cobbz. In particular post #86 really did feel suspicious to me, like tiershift wants to distance from d_cobbz but doesn't actually want people to pressure him. Both goodmorning and malakittens said d_cobbz's votes were interesting, but didn't say more. Both are giving me slightly scummy vibes, although I'm starting to like tiershift against my better judgement.

2) The huntress / malakittens exchange: malakittens says she is deliberately buddying huntress, huntress says she is suspicious of malakittens. Malakittens is very confident about her ability to sort huntress and mollie and goodmorning. I'd like to believe it, but that also sounds like a very nice scum cover. I feel like sorting mala may be the key to cracking this case for me. I read newbie 1413 which has malakittens in it as town, but it was very short and didn't give me much.

3) huntress also says NP is suspicious. I don't really see what she is getting at re: post 66 and his pirate mollie vote. Looking over Neater Plastic's posts he seems... eager to please? Is that scummy? Could be. I prodded him about malakittens but I don't really think he's sheeping her, will keep an eye out for more though. Not sure about the voting pattern either, in some ways the indecisiveness seems town.

4) huntress and goodmorning feel kind of similar to me, both poking and proding here and there, feeling generally towny but maybe somewhat cautious. The style seems to be more about asking questions than giving opinions.

TOWN
goodmorning
Huntress
Malakittens
Neater Plastic
pirate mollie
TierShift
D_Cobbz
Rothwell
SCUM


PS
wrote this before seeing 122. Seems like maybe the common thread is threatening to lynch inactives? If so, no apologies.

[emeraldemon]

Or maybe it's the 1-line question to everyone style?

[TierShift]

As far as i can tell no one has posted any suspicious content/ posts
I will try to post more detailed posts in the future

This is just not going to cut it. If you say you have nothing to talk about, could you at least try to make a list of town to scum, with a little bit of explaining, like emerald just did?

I'm not referring to the act of questioning itself.

What are you referring to, you got us all on the edge of our seats! The fact that the other quotes were said by scum and that they asked questions to players doesn't seem too strong a connection? Basically just what mala said in response.

1) I am still feeling bad about tiershift+d_cobbz. In particular post #86 really did feel suspicious to me, like tiershift wants to distance from d_cobbz but doesn't actually want people to pressure him. Both goodmorning and malakittens said d_cobbz's votes were interesting, but didn't say more. Both are giving me slightly scummy vibes, although I'm starting to like tiershift against my better judgement.

I don't see how that particular post is me trying to distance myself from cobbz...also why is it so weird that I do want to distance myself from a highly scummy player?

[Rothwell]

And could you perhaps do more to show us that you are in fact town and not lurking scum?

How?

I suggest then that you do look into older games, if you have no clue how to play this game and don't do anything to change that, how do you think you will be able to participate?

Wing it . I have a basic idea how to play the game, it's just a fair bit different and more serious than before.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: rothwell

There you go.

I don't have any solid scumreads atm and I'd rather place my vote where it can do some work. Also, lynch all lurkers!

Rothwell, do you think this attack of mine is justified?

Better me than someone contributing, so sure.

@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?

One less target for the Mafia.

See the thing is unless you don't post I won't be able to tell the difference between them. However even if you are lost a little effort will go a long way because I will be able to interact with you and see if I can figure stuff out. Keeping quiet isn't going to help anyone, but going to end up worse for yourself.

Just try asking little questions and things or look for odd things in behavior or sentences that don't add up and contraction other posts prior.

Duly noted.

[Rothwell]

@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?

One less target for the Mafia.

*One more.

[goodmorning]

I'm not referring to the act of questioning itself.

What are you referring to, you got us all on the edge of our seats! The fact that the other quotes were said by scum and that they asked questions to players doesn't seem too strong a connection? Basically just what mala said in response.

I am referring to the type of question and the depth thereof.

[Malakittens]

I'm not referring to the act of questioning itself.

What are you referring to, you got us all on the edge of our seats! The fact that the other quotes were said by scum and that they asked questions to players doesn't seem too strong a connection? Basically just what mala said in response.

I am referring to the type of question and the depth thereof.

You're grasping. It's also making my whiskers tingle. It makes me possibly think Mollie's right and you could be scum afterall.

[goodmorning]

Let me make a more thorough comparison here.

[spoiler="Look how bad the lurkers look," said Captain Obvious.]

emerald:
@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?
@d_cobbz: please provide an opinion about something.

Zai:
@A_Stone: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@Blastoide: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?
@Z-BosoN: Is there any reason we shouldn't lynch you for inactivity?

SD:
Human ~ first post in the thread but quiet since. Care to join in? Are you hiding?

[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Do you have any reads?"/also reads as pertain to voting]

@tiershift: does anyone else seem scummy to you besides goodmorning? Does anyone seem towny?
@Neater Plastic: you seem to think malakittens is town. She seems to think your read on mollie is wrong (#72). What do you think about that? Was moving your vote off huntress partially based on malakittens's read?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?

@Skylark: Have you determined anything about Uber yet? Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion?
@zabriel: What is it that caused you to vote for Skylark?

goodmorning ~ Do you still have the same read about emcee as you did in #15 ?
Proteus ~ Did you find out anything about emcee as a player? What about Tracey?
TripleD ~ Are hugs part of your game style, are you like Bruce Willis' character in Unbreakable who can see flashes of people he touches? More seriously, what do you make of yourself as the most experienced player here being the recipient of the first RVS going round?

[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Did your reaction test work?"/"Did/is someone else's work/ing on you?"]

@everyone: what is going on between tiershift and d_cobbz?
@goodmorning: Did the recent exchange between tiershift and d_cobbz confirm or refute your hunch in any way?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?

Emcee ~ what makes you "proud town" as opposed to town? You're being voted for at the moment and at least one person thinks you're suspicious. Shouldn't that make you "nervous town"?

[/spoiler]

Spoiler: Completely Useless Theory Questions*

@goodmorning: If it was Night right now, what do you think the best course of action for scum would be? I know this is an odd line of questioning, but I would like to see your thought process regarding this.
@kibbles: What kind of information do you think is the most valuable to the town? What kind of questions would help get this information?

*emerald has none of these, but included for the sake of completeness

Most of Mala's ER questions fit into none of these categories, with the exception of the question to Dr Doolittle (who do you find scummy, category 2).
Coincidentally this is the least Scum-indicative category, as Town may well need to poke other players into contributing game-relevant information (though because it's a pro-Town action that's easy to fake, Scum has just as much reason to do it as Town does).

P-EDIT: It would be interesting if I were, but this analysis was pretty useful to me in N1308.
I briefly mentioned this in N1351:

If anyone is curious, I have

actual basis

(!) for playstyle comparisons. It netted me scum here, where I compared SafetyDance to a different player I was familiar with, Zaicon. Some people just play very similarly. (And this is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about foundational play, though in this case I was able to pick out a specific thing: types of questioning.)

Basically SD and Zai have similar playstyles to each other and to what I think emerald has/is developing as well. Your playstyle is a bit different.

[Malakittens]

Man the first spoiled tab reminds me of the case you decided to build on me in Donner Party on ER. Just the title, but not the context.

/conflicted.

[goodmorning]

I really loved that style of cases. I should do those again.

[goodmorning]

I did one in N1426 too but my one on you in O524 was better.

[Neater Plastic]

So, I had an idea. Instead of using ISOs to judge the players, I decided to do a search on everybody's names to see what other people have had to say about them. Here is a compilation of people's opinions on each player. I hope I didn't miss too many thoughts.

Spoiler: Huntress

Malakittens thinks Huntress is town, or at least claims to. At the start, emeraldemon and I thought she was contributing nothing while pretending to actually contribute something, but since then she has stopped acting like that so much. There doesn't seem to be much suspicion against her at the moment.

Spoiler: emeraldemon

goodmorning thinks that emerald's posting style is suspicious, I think that she means the per-player questions. A lot of what I came up with here was responses to emerald's inquiries and accusations, rather than actual accusations against him.

Spoiler: D_Cobbz

We all know the case against D_Cobbz, I think. He contributes very little and sheeped TierShift in a very suspicious way for a while - can't tell if that's still going on. I couldn't search him properly because it seems that he's often referred to as "DC", which I can't search for because it's under four letters long.

Spoiler: TierShift

GM and Huntress sparked some serious discussion by voting for TierShift without an explanation. It seems that this was their purpose, not suspicion, although Huntress claimed that TierShift looked suspicious early on, see 44. There is some suspicion that TierShift is scum partners with D_Cobbz. Although this is mostly D_Cobbz's fault, emeraldemon is somewhat suspicious about TierShift's response to DC in 86 because it seemed "like tiershift wants to distance from d_cobbz but doesn't actually want people to pressure him."

Spoiler: goodmorning

emeraldemon liked GM's response to him not mentioning that Malakittens modded 1436, but this post actually brought some suspicion to them both because it seemed, to quote Tier, like "a way to make goodmorning look townish while at the same time distancing [himself] from her." pirate mollie seemed to strongly believe that goodmorning was scum, but she didn't give very... intelligible... reasons. TierShift thought that GM looked suspicious because she wasn't giving out much information, and seemed too defensive. However, he changed his mind when she said that she was just waiting and gathering evidence. emerald seems to agree with TierShift. Malakittens, however, it suspicious of GM because she thinks that GM is "grasping."

Spoiler: Rothwell

Lurker, lurker, lurker. Wherever you look, that's what Rothwell's being called, because we have little else to see about him. He has received many pressure votes. Some people have shown that they believe in the possibility of Rothwell being a lost newbie as he claims, but suspicion against him is growing.

Spoiler: pirate mollie

A wagon on mollie got started around the beginning for reasons that nobody answered my question about, although emeraldemon thought that it was strange that mollie didn't confirm. After mollie and Mala had a discussion about goodmorning, I decided that mollie seemed suspicious because she was too intent on GM being scum. Malakittens seemed to disagree, but then she conceded that perhaps I was right, although she didn't say that she thought mollie to actually be scum. TierShift doesn't like mollie's posting style, and although he didn't say that it seemed suspicious in itself, he did say that she needed to produce more content.

Spoiler: Malakittens

I decided that Mala was probably town pretty early on. She read Huntress as supertown, which Huntress found slightly suspicious, and then admitted that this was buddying. Some people are suspicious about the relationship between Mala and me in this game, since I said she seemed town and appeared to sheep her (which, I might add, was not what I was actually doing). It seems like suspicion against Mala in this game is composed of thin layers, and she doesn't have much opposition.

I won't do one for myself, you can look that up on your own. People probably wouldn't trust it, anyway.

[Huntress]

What conclusions do you draw from all that? It looks like a classic case of IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis).

More comments on that and the other stuff later but for now:

Vote: Neater Plastic

[Rothwell]

Spoiler: Rothwell

Some people have shown that they believe in the possibility of Rothwell being a lost newbie as he claims, but suspicion against him is growing.

For future reference, I never claimed this.

[TierShift]

GM, your case so far is that emeraldemon has asked some not very in-depth questions to every player? Wouldn't there be examples of this being done by town players?

Still, I do agree that both NP and ED might make some more useful analyses and ask some real questions.

[goodmorning]

GM, your case so far is that emeraldemon has asked some not very in-depth questions to every player? Wouldn't there be examples of this being done by town players?

It's not impossible, but this isn't only about the questions but also the type of player that's asking them.

[emeraldemon]

Dear goodmorning,

I wasn't really sure how to respond to your case, or if I should even respond at all. I'm inclined to think that if you're town, you'll figure me out eventually and I shouldn't waste time defending myself. But in the end I figured you'd prefer some kind of response, so maybe this helps.

I can't really say anything about "my style". From my point of view I don't have a style: I post what I'm thinking, and what I think will catch scum. I'm not going to try to change that to fit your profile of townish behavior, I would just seem false and probably scummy. But I have to admit your fingering of the questions got under my skin a bit, since from my point of view I'm working harder on this case than anybody. I decided to go back and pull every question everyone has asked up to the point where you voted me. These are out of context, but that shouldn't matter too much if we're talking about type of question asked:

Rothwell:
(nothing)

d_cobbz:
(nothing)

neater plastic:
But shouldn't you take your vote off of her, then?

malakittens:
Why is she scum?
Why aren't you voting her then?
How much of her meta did you actually read or look up?

pirate mollie:
what do you think of gm mala
you wouldn't be her scum partner would you
r u being for real or are u trolling me
so why am I scummy again?

goodmorning:
How sure is really sure, on a scale of ("hey i just met you") 1-to10 (Innocent Child)?
Doesn't have to...?
Sorry I'm not, I guess? And what do you mean, "drops off"?
@DC: Do you have any reads so far? Anything you've seen that looks off?

Huntress:
@ Mala: Why didn't you join our molliewagon?
@ emerald and NP: What do you think about the wagon on mollie?
If I didn't really care which why would I change?
How is asking questions not contributing?
What made you "ready to let that vote go anyway"?

Tiershift:
May I ask what point that is?
Why wouldn't scum look to this 'hidden intent', which obviously isn't even there? Is this a way to make goodmorning look townish while at the same time distancing yourself from her?
But if there is a reason you voted for me, would you be as kind as to enlighten us?
And what is the reaaon you are not telling us? Don't you want to help town?
how should we pressure them to join discussion? Vote for them?
Rothwell, could you just tell us what you think of the game so far? Who looks the most townish and who the most scummy?
And could you perhaps do more to show us that you are in fact town and not lurking scum?
how do you think you will be able to participate?

emeraldemon:
@malakittens: can you explain the huntress read?
@pirate mollie: can you explain the GM read? Your explanation to malakittens made no sense to me.
@everyone: what is going on between tiershift and d_cobbz?
@d_cobbz: please provide an opinion about something.
@tiershift: does anyone else seem scummy to you besides goodmorning? Does anyone seem towny?
@goodmorning: Did the recent exchange between tiershift and d_cobbz confirm or refute your hunch in any way?
@Neater Plastic: you seem to think malakittens is town. She seems to think your read on mollie is wrong (#72). What do you think about that? Was moving your vote off huntress partially based on malakittens's read?
@Rothwell: Can you give me a reason not to lynch you?
@Huntress: Why do you think Mala has such a strong townread on you so soon? Does it seem suspicious at all?
can you help me reconcile these two posts? If goodmorning's behavior seems very scummy, is she not a solid scumread?
Does this mean I should just take your word for it? There isn't anything in your read that I would understand?
Care to elaborate on the NP read?

So goodmorning, could you do me a favor? Could analyze these other questions for me?

[emeraldemon]

Also, as long as I'm asking you questions, have you gotten any kind of read on malakittens or huntress yet?

[goodmorning]

I'm working on your previous post and will be doing ISOs after, but to answer that simply and currently: nothing yet on Mala, vague badfeels on Huntress but nothing concrete, I don't think.

Why?

[emeraldemon]

you wouldn't be her scum partner would you

Mollie. I directly 'caught' scum Goodmorning in two of her most recent games. However I didn't replace into one, but I replaced into another, but failed to get her lynched before I was NK'd.

When I say I need more time, I need more time.

Want to back off and let me have it?

malakittens seems confident she can catch you if you're scum, she also seems confident huntress is town. I said this briefly before, but in my mind that's either great news for town (if I can strong read her as town and trust her reads on you/huntress/mollie, that's half the game already sorted), or scum using confidence as a cover to push whatever agenda scum wants.

If you had also read huntress as strongly town, that might corroborate her read. But you didn't.

[emeraldemon]

I guess there's also a third option, that malakittens is town but overconfident in her reading ability.

[goodmorning]

I see.

I think it might be necessary for me to point out that I'm actually not familiar with Huntress.
mollie and I have I think three or four shared games, Mala and I have probably about the same, plus we've modded for each other.

My question here, and it's more rhetorical than anything else: Does Mala have with Huntress what I have with Zai, Safety, even ppp? like Cabd has with TIP? like I have with Guy? or is it more like what kuribo has with DGB? in between? Does it even exist?

And I know that's a lot of namedropping but basically what I'm trying to say is I don't know whether it's playstyle synergy, really good meta, a fairly strong tell, or just lots of experience with each other, or something in between.
I'm willing to believe it exists, because it does happen and it destroys your credibility if you claim it wrongly one too many times.

[TierShift]

That is one BAD defense emeraldemon...lemme break it down.
1. you don't have a style
2. collecting questions that aren't falling in the categories mentioned by GM

I'm inclined to think that if you're town, you'll figure me out eventually and I shouldn't waste time defending myself.

Is this admitting to be scum?

But I have to admit your fingering of the questions got under my skin a bit, since from my point of view I'm working harder on this case than anybody.

On what case are you working and how are you working harder on it than everyone?

insane wall of text

Why was that wall necessary?

Reaction I would expect from town is not that defensive, really not anything along these lines. I've found GM's case to be very weak so far and you could just have called him out for that, instead of defending yourself in such a hopeless way.

[pirate mollie]

i have huntress as strong town.

I still don't like gm or mala

[pirate mollie]

also re: playstyle

playstyle is not a scumtell.