Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[T S O]

Unless you get in PRs, which is different, and I'm not getting into).

Don't give her any ideas...

[MTD]

MTD, the lurking was intentional and strategical to relieve pressure though. And admittedly too.

yes... but as I said, I have no problem with the reason she provides. I mean, yeah, that's something scum might do, too, but so might town, and in this case I don't find the scum explanation to be more probable (as I have already said probably)

[T S O]

Do you have a problem with her later attributing it to non-intentional inactivity?

[MTD]

Yes. That is something I do have a problem with, I just stumbled across that and it does seem strange.

[Riptide]

She said that he was town for blind aggression. She also said he leans scum because of his aggression. Either this is a contradiction or fence sitting disguised in wording.

What? don't you ever have arguments for scum and for town on a person?

Still. Lurking is not town. Ever. (Unless you get in PRs, which is different, and I'm not getting in to)

Already said that, lurking is null.
Arguably lurking under pressure, as TSO said, may in general be more probably scum, not sure about that though.

Yes, I do. The difference is someone saying "Player A is town because of his aggression, but scum because of post whatever" and saying "Player A is town because of his aggression, but scum because of his aggression"

I agree lurking is most often null, but trying to pass it off as town is ridiculous.

[MTD]

Yes, I do. The difference is someone saying "Player A is town because of his aggression, but scum because of post whatever" and saying "Player A is town because of his aggression, but scum because of his aggression"

Looks more like "Player A is probably town for blind aggression, but it might be faked, so I also lean towards scumreading him, so null"
But yeah, that point TSO turned up just now makes me unsure.
I will do another readup on her tomorrow, have to go to sleep now.

[Elyse]

@TSO
I went town->null->town on Cho. I didn't like the post I said I didn't like and then I thought his most recent post outlining his concerns about Jargonaut seemed very townie. I don't necessarily agree with it, but he's taking the initiative and trying to find scum, something Riptide has continued to fail to do.

Also, why does confirmation bias make someone scum?

[T S O]

Pretty sure confirmation bias is something to do reading your scum role PM and thus knowing others are Town.

I could be wrong here.

[T S O]

I'll respond to you further tomorrow, Elyse, I'm falling asleep here.

[mnemonicdevice]

Wow. I am not caught up on this.
Will make a long catchup post by weekend at the latest.

[Elyse]

Ok.

I thought confirmation bias is when people pick out certain things that confirm what they think is true and ignore what doesn't support their idea. So I think that makes them town actually.

[caledfwitch]

Replace me out please. I can't commit to this, sorry :/

[Elyse]

Before you go, are you scum?

[Burning_Earth]

Someone please engage me. Apathy is starting to infect me.

TBP - Do you have any other thoughts besides on Cho?

- Dice

My point exactly.

Also I'm back to townreading Cho.

@TSO
I went town->null->town on Cho. I didn't like the post I said I didn't like and then I thought his most recent post outlining his concerns about Jargonaut seemed very townie. I don't necessarily agree with it, but he's taking the initiative and trying to find scum, something Riptide has continued to fail to do.

Also, why does confirmation bias make someone scum?

barn these posts

[Cho]

I'm on my phone with only a bit of time to spare, so no quotes.

Elyse is right about confirmation bias. I think at times it also goes a bit further than just ignoring what doesn't support the tunneling, but instead actively trying to read everything they say as coming from a scum perspective rather than trying to actually analyze it from either perspective.

I already explained, once again, that there was a period where I lurked prior to my "list" post. In my next series of posts after that, I mentioned that from my "list" post to that point, I was inactive. Please actually read that.

Riptide, I like wordplay. So when T S O said my lurking made me a scumfuck, I copied that and changed town to scum. Because a good part of that post was a direct response to T S O.

Yeah, I'm saying he's town for his aggression and then scum for his aggression. I typed that out as I thought about it. As I see it his aggression can be seen as town and insulting other players like he did doesn't exactly make friends. In other words I feel like scum have more of an incentive to buddy.

Right afterward, I said that I couldn't just say he was town because of that and that he could still be scum because of meta reasons and that hyper aggression for him is not a concrete town tell. I've played with him before.

Then I said I would decide to list him as a null read, but that I hoped he was scum. If you want me to explain this too, it means that I hope in the end I was initially right to vote him.

To summarize, in my list post I recognized that my vote was probably OMGUS, but I liked it because I didn't like his play. He wasn't in any danger of a lynch, so you could call that me being in limbo.

In the same post I said why he could be town, why he could be scum, and that a null read was easier for me to settle with.

You can't say I'm contradicting myself on my T S O read. I'm not.

[Cho]

That's a lot longer than it felt like.

Something I forgot: when you put pressure on town you can't expect them not to feel it. I avoided posting so quickly after that initial push. So what?

Asking "why would town lurk under pressure" as if the no brainer answer is "they wouldn't" is ridiculous.

Feeling the pressure to look town, and not to "scumslip" so people have something to attack me with, right now.

[N]

Searching for replacement for caledfwitch

addax

noun
a large, pale-colored antelope, Addax nasomaculatus, of North Africa, with loosely spiraled horns.

Vote Count 1.07

toolenduso

(0)

The Betting Pool

(0)

caledfwitch

(1) MTD

mnemonicdevice

(0)

Jargonaut

(1) Cho

Dunhamganger

(0)

MTD

(0)

Elyse

(0)

T S O

(0)

Riptide

(4) mnemonicdevice, Burning_Earth, Dunhamganger, Elyse

Cho

(5)

T S O, Riptide, Egg, toolenduso, The Betting Pool

Burning_Earth

(0)

Egg

(1) caledfwitch

Not Voting

(1) Jargonaut

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-05-03 21:42:05)

[N]

Rubicon replaces caledfwitch

[Jargonaut]

Ok.

I thought confirmation bias is when people pick out certain things that confirm what they think is true and ignore what doesn't support their idea. So I think that makes them town actually.

This is correct... TSO what exactly are you saying? I think Cho was saying that

you

are suffering from confirmation bias against

her

.

I think what MTD is saying about the "contradiction" is definitely correct. That is, it doesn't exist. How MTD phrased it is very clearly what she said if you look at the post:

a)

I really want to bring myself to scumread him

i)

but I reluctantly think he is town for the blind aggression

1)

and yet I am also leaning toward scumreading him because I know he can be hyperaggressive to form a façade of towniness when he is scum.

a)

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

[Rubicon]

Yo.

[Burning_Earth]

yo.

What amazing content: the word yo (btw thanks for replacing in so quickly)

Also, please vote riptide kkthnx

[Jargonaut]

Uh, what exactly is your case on Riptide? They answered your points a while back in 148, and I don't think you've said much else about them being scum.

[Rubicon]

yo.

What amazing content: the word yo (btw thanks for replacing in so quickly)

Also, please vote riptide kkthnx

Content will come in the morning, still catching up.

[Rubicon]

decided to stay up and talk a little about the Cho-TSO thing. Will post thoughts about other players tomorrow (and decide who to vote), but want to see how those two respond to this.

I am 100% confident that Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are Town for their votes. Accordingly, they are now Town Day 1 Unlynchables.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MTD

This post comes so close to being something I approve of, yet somehow falls so short.

You state here that you were deliberately exaggerating your reads on these players:

3)

I'm "backing off" because I made an RVS statement meant to come off as a strong read, even though I knew myself that it wasn't concrete at all. I don't particularly like this point either because I'm both going to be called Scum for using the buzzword, and called Scum for admitting it was a buzzword.

You must have known this whole series of early posts would attract attention. So why did you want that attention? What were you hoping to achieve by making exaggerated statements like this?

As a result, Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are exempt from much of my suspicion for today, provided that they don't royally fuck up, of course!

What are your current reads on Elyse and mnemonicdevice? (I won't bother asking for your current read on Cho. )

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball? Regardless, you'll never be conftown, because you're being quite mean right now.

Cho, please explain this comment.

I can't find any context for it, and when asked about it earlier, you never responded.

Riptide

, yes, of course! Their votes and posts simply looked so comfortable. It certainly doesn't look like scum forcing themselves to play along with town's "true RVS" game, as may happen when scum are trying to choose whether to place their first vote on a teammate or not!

Of course, this isn't a concrete towntell, as I've already explained. But I like their votes, and so far I like Elyse's style!

Was this serious?

If you're scum, this looks like you're deliberately creating WIFOMy interactions with Elyse and mnemonicdevice in case your over-the-top posts get you lynched. I don't understand why you, if town, would be doing this, but feel free to explain it if you can.

But while I'm not allowing myself to completely exclude those players, Elyse in particular, from potentially being scum, I

am

allowing myself the small luxury of feeling like I can trust them for the time being. (Meaning, I'm not going to bother myself in trying to envision scenarios where they could be scum, at least for Day 1.)

Why not? As an approach to the game of mafia, what do you gain by ignoring certain players during Day 1? (This is a serious question.) It's ironic because the more you say you're ignoring those players the more I want to hear you give detailed, concrete thoughts about them.

MTD:

I tend to see a vote without explanation in RVS as a good thing, shockingly enough, as I also think scum are more likely to overanalyze every early move they make. I know that in my own early non-replacement scum games, I deliberated over where I would place my RVS vote, what kind of joke I would attempt to use to explain it, and so on. Seeing a naked vote is refreshing. I won't deny that the repeated questioning on this point and player in particular is making me less confident on my stance there, but that was what I saw at the time.

I have trouble believing you think naked votes are a town tell.


--

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball?

Assume non-multiball until proven multiball is my mantra regarding this.

Your top scum suspect suddenly demands to know why you think the game is or isn't multiball, when neither you nor anyone else has mentioned multiball previously.

You don't call them on this at all, and instead act as though you

did

in fact say something about multiball which needed clarified.

Please explain the thought process behind that for me.

Pretty sure confirmation bias is something to do reading your scum role PM and thus knowing others are Town.

I could be wrong here.

This makes no sense. You've been calling Cho scum all game. You should not have read

"certain people are determined to use every new post you make as a way to further their confirmation bias"

and assumed the accusation was that you know she's town. If you did interpret it that way, you should have responded by asking how she could possibly get that idea -

not

by saying "so you think I'm scum then??"

On the other hand, if you

are

scum and

do

secretly know Cho is town, and are tunneling her as a strategy and not reading her actual defenses in detail, it's not surprising that you misunderstood.

[T S O]

hiya Rubi, did we play in a Large together one time? You seem somewhat familiar.

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball?

Assume non-multiball until proven multiball is my mantra regarding this.

Your top scum suspect suddenly demands to know why you think the game is or isn't multiball, when neither you nor anyone else has mentioned multiball previously.

You don't call them on this at all, and instead act as though you

did

in fact say something about multiball which needed clarified.

Please explain the thought process behind that for me.

I don't know, really. I just didn't want to get into a discussion about multiball because I felt it could give her things to talk about which weren't related to the Unlynchables. So I cut the discussion off before it could give her the chance to move onto it and away from her own scumminess.

I thought about it a while later and concluded I probably should say something about it, but when I did, tool had already commented on it, so I felt no need anymore.

Pretty sure confirmation bias is something to do reading your scum role PM and thus knowing others are Town.

I could be wrong here.

This makes no sense. You've been calling Cho scum all game. You should not have read

"certain people are determined to use every new post you make as a way to further their confirmation bias"

and assumed the accusation was that you know she's town.

It took me a while to mentally get exactly what you're saying here, but when I did, I came to the same conclusion as before. I don't see what's wrong with my thought process here.

TSO's brain: "Confirmation bias = Scum"
Cho: TSO has confirmation bias.
TSO: Didn't you say you weren't calling me scum?

is a paraphrased version of events, as far as I can see.

If you did interpret it that way, you should have responded by asking how she could possibly get that idea -

not

by saying "so you think I'm scum then??"

But, if I interpreted confirmation bias as her calling me scum, and she said I had confirmation bias ...then she would be calling me scum, so my reaction makes sense?