NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Yates]

Hey guys. I just received confirmation I'm taking over in this slot. Let me read the game and get back with thoughts.

[Yates]

First, you must post the secret town password.

Zuzu's Petals. There. Now an angel got its wings.

I'm only on page 8 and I'm already tired of reading this game. Some of these posts make me sad.

[Yates]

Pages 1-3

- RVS. *shrug*

Page 4

- pisskop vs zek is of note on ths page. Just a really weird exchange. I can't tell if this is scum fake distancing, bad attempts at trying to get someone to "trip up" on something silly, or just something I can't comprehend.

Also a special scum point for Gooner for this unnecesary theory post. This is an up and coming reliable scum tell for me - easy way for scum to look like they are contributing while not actually taking a position on a person or argument.

Page 5

- Anyone else finding Elyse difficult to read? Oh good, I'm not alone.

Page 6

- @Nikanor - Nice = Town? Is this what you are saying??

Post 133 jibes with me. I won't be voting tman today.

Pages 7-8

- What am I even reading? I'm taking a break.

[Yates]

vote zekrom

the more we extend this day the more Im wondering the point in this whole vig shot deal. I dont trust him to do whats right if he's town, which I have never really felt and I don't see the big advantage of doing it is.

Wait. Why would Town be worried about a vig claim? Why wouldn't you let scum worry about Zek? The way I see it he's either the vig, as he claims, or he is scum and the real vig is [properly] not countering. You know why? Vig's counter claim with a shot in the night. Bottom line; if Zek is scum he is likely killed tonight. If Zek is NOT scum, he is NOT killed tonight and proves his role in the morning.

Am I missing something here?

FoS: Porochaz

It's the weekend and I'm doing a lousy job of catching up but in reading backwards this popped up as crazy.

[Yates]

How does it feel to know that you have to cut part of a post out when you reply in order for you response to fit? Does it feel bad? It should.

Stop it. If he is changing context, you have an argument. If he is making his point more obvious by using fewer words [ie. being concise], you have no argument. I do this ALL THE TIME. In fact, I just did it.

[Yates]

So what idiot's fault is it that we're not lynching this.

that would ut, who wants to keep zekrom around in order to shoot the claimed doc.

If UT is scum - why does he need Zek to shoot the claimed doc. Can't he - you know - do this himself?

[Yates]

FORMERFISH TO FRY

CAN ANYONE WHO APPRECIATES PUNS PLEASE GET ON THIS

Olympic Judge gives this a 4.5 for style and 6.0 for execution. You did not qualify to advance to the medal round.

[Yates]

Prepare to qualify.

The argument you're implying here is outrageous. Truly, truly outrageous.

This quote, however, was way more subtle and an awesome/unexpected 80's reference [even if targeted towards little girls].

Nailed the execution and landing on a high degree of difficulty trick. The judges are impressed.

[Yates]

I don't like it when I can't predict the vig.

Need to know if you guys should block him tonight or let his shot go through on Town?

[Yates]

But, he has to choose. Are you suggesting he use random.org or something?

if that ^ is what the rest of the town wants

Come on, guys. Can we pretend we know how to play this game?

Look, you are supposed to breadcrumb your shot. You blew that chance. Now you have to straight up name 2 people and shoot one of them. Easy enough? Good.

[Yates]

We need to establish a set pool of 4 at most and then make sure Zek sees it and understands he is to kill these people and no one else.

Yeah. That number needs to be 2. Two is the number.

[Yates]

Zekrom: Please kill Gooner. I have information that says he is scum.

Is this serious? I'm not going to read the whole game. Spare me the drama and tell me.

[Yates]

VOTE: sthar

(1) Because Elyse's Post 972. In particular, sthar's interaction with mollie strikes me as scum trying to get into the good graces of a player they think will go to bat for them if convinced.

(2) Because sthar's Post 1009 looks like scum trying to push -reasons- to lynch a player other folks have already voiced a willingness to lynch. It looks that way because sthar's reasons are really quite bad (pointed out why below), but he gets the double benefit of looking like he's actively scumhunting (e.g., "look at this effort!") while being able to fall back on the fact that plenty of other players have already also stated Marquis suspicions (e.g., "alas, I, like all those other town, were mistaken").

- sthar uses quotes isolated from their context to concoct a scum motivation for their content while ignoring the ongoing discussion to which these posts were responding.

- sthar mischaracterizes what Marquis's posts are actually about. For example, Post 748 is talking about DeathNote, not Zekrom. And the ambivalent/sure point is based on Post 599, which speaks more to how Marquis feels about Fish than Zekrom.

- sthar thinks that finding fault with believing a vig-night-kill plan can actually survive scum fuckery even though scum are fully aware of what that plan is amounts to scumminess because... unclear. I am apparently unaware of sthar's extensive knowledge of all those times that scum haven't screwed an early-game, out-in-the-open town's night action plan, so that expressing doubt as to its success is no longer a "legitimate reason" to not champion such a plan.

I like you. I'm going to sheep you. I hate your NK choices but this is good work.

VOTE: sthar

[Yates]

If we limit it too low then Scum know more about who Zek will kill.

Yeah? And? Then TOWN will know who a TOWN Zek will kill. And he kills from a Town list not created by him. Isn't this the whole point of a "leashed" vig?

I'm cool with RCB and Gooner.

I feel like one gives us more information than the other but I'm not going to politick my choice.

[Yates]

Z-man. Who did you target.

That did almost nothing for me. Liking Marquis less, UT less.

Cabd

Why Cabd? Why not Marquis - you know, the counter wagon to the lynch on Town??

[Yates]

I'm having paranoid thoughts about despy putting in double 1-shot vigs. From what I've seen zek's level of shitness doesn't actually correlate to his alignment, so I'm not convinced by yesterday.

What?? Is this really a thing??

Look, at this point Zek is pretty much one of three things:
1. fake claiming scum
2. an SK
3. the worst vig ever - all but guaranteed to target Town EVERY NIGHT ALIVE

Which of those three do you want to keep alive right now? If he flips 1 or 2 we're good. If he flips 3, we lynch fake claiming Cabd and nail scum tomorrow.

Optimal play is obvious:
VOTE: Zek

@Mod - I'll be V/LA until Tuesday. Hopefully knee deep in powder!

[Yates]

Are all these posts going to be overwritten when the site is restored this weekend?

[Yates]

Since it appears we're not getting our posts back...

Yatesy is doing that thing he does as scum where he's focusing on calling things bad/weird/wrong rather than making alignment judgements.

I call bullshit. You were mod in one of my Town games. You should know what this play means. Hint: it isn't scum. You also have the benefit of knowing this isn't for show on the off chance you would just happen to replace in. Finally, you've been my victim how many times now? When have I ever done that as scum?

Fake meta is fake.

FOS - serra

[Yates]

So Nik...

Zekrom: Please kill Gooner. I have information that says he is scum.

Is this serious? I'm not going to read the whole game. Spare me the drama and tell me.

[Yates]

Maybe I will vote Nikanor.

Man Serra is so scummy though.

Yup. Agree with both of these. I want Nik to respond to 1622 before placing my vote.

[Yates]

Both times, actually, and in your town games, there was significantly less content which was just filler calling people wrong without saying anything about their alignment.

Hogwash. I'm not going to self-meta but I disagree. I also disagree with your assertion that I'm not taking a stand in *this* game. PLUS, you are accusing me, of essentially this, yes?

Also a special scum point for Gooner for this unnecesary theory post. This is an up and coming reliable scum tell for me - easy way for scum to look like they are contributing while not actually taking a position on a person or argument.

So you are trying to claim that I'm scummy for doing something I'm calling a scum tell as if I wouldn't know? Whu? I'm not sure what your game is here, but you aren't making sense. And the fact you should know how to read me by now is more than a little disconcerting.

In rereading you in ISO, my bigger concern at this point is your hedgey [http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p5703842]post 1446[/url] where you tried to pretend you were for a Zek lynch in 1445 then immediately backed out in the span of 19 minutes because... "paranoia?" Explain, please.

Bottom line: I'm voting you or Nik today. I feel more confident in my Nik-scum read because I admit to some confirmation bias on my Serra-scum read but - you know - "paranoia."

[Yates]

short version of why Nik is scum

Zekrom: Please kill Gooner. I have information that says he is scum.

Is this serious? I'm not going to read the whole game. Spare me the drama and tell me.

Post 1023 is rubbing me the wrong way. There appears to be a disconnect I'm *still* waiting for him to clear up.

[Yates]

So Nik...

Zekrom: Please kill Gooner. I have information that says he is scum.

Is this serious? I'm not going to read the whole game. Spare me the drama and tell me.

It wasn't serious.

VOTE: Nikanor

[Yates]

Is Page 41 (where Nikanor's Post 1023 is found) from Day 1?

Yes.

This doesn't make sense, Yates.

I realize that now. I was thinking that was from day 2. Just realized in my response to GC it was still Day 1.

Meh. I still don't like him and don't have a better vote.

[Yates]

Guess I could vote Marquis - if only to stop the annoying bitching.

[Yates]

I could also vote PereV.

[Yates]

then get the fuck on with it. sooner or later you're going to have to have opinions

I had stronger opinions before the post loss. There's something missing now and I can't remember what I saw. So yeah. I'm a little annoyed. I've also got 3 or 4 people I would vote and there was... something... I didn't like about Nik from a post that got deleted and I just can't remember what it was but that's what really got me onto Nik-scum. So I have an opinion - I just can't substantiate it as well as I want.

[Yates]

Marquis is reading more as frustrated town who is impressed with his Day 1 play and does not understand why others don't see it.

How do you distinguish between that and scum looking for town-cred? Serious question and not facetious.

Whether or not you've forgotten when nik posted that, what scum motivation would nik have for that post?

Initially, I thought I had that marked as him possibly faking a scum result. Seems way less likely to be a faked result if it was day 1. You see where scum have motivation to fake a result had that been D2.

The part that remains *kinda* scummy is the directing a vig thing. It is, however, less scummy since the motivation is just as likely because Cabd was a 2nd scum suspect as because he is scum trying to target town. I still subscribe to the theory that being wrong =/= being scum. Motivation is key.

[Yates]

What bothers me about you are throwaway comments like "What am I even reading? I'm taking a break." in 907, and posts like 1148 where you just describe why someone is wrong and somehow translate that to a potential scumread, without considering scum or town motivation.

I finally see what you are saying. You realize I'm a replacement player, right? 907 was my 1st content post - and I hadn't even finished reading the 900+ posts from before I replaced in. Ditto 1148 - I'm still trying to get caught up at that point. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of crap but I actually never finished reading day 1. And frankly I'm not going to at this point. *shrug*

[Yates]

So the current wagon is on mala because she didn't quick hammer? Is that the basic gist?

[Yates]

Fancy reading the thread before posting?

Simmer down. What am I missing?

[Yates]

That'll do.

Right. So this is your case:

Mala is lurking
Mala voted for mollie instead of Zek
Mala claimed she would vote Zek but didn't because "no quick lynch"

Am I missing anything else? I mean...

1. Mala has claimed to be sick thus not posting. I have been sick thus not posting. *shrug* Is this uncharacteristic for her? I'm not sure I've played a whole game with mala and if I have I don't know her meta. Outside of meta, I read this as null.

2. Do you know something about Mollie's alignment the rest of us don't? Point being - just because she didn't vote for Zek [or was even wrong about his newb label] doesn't mean she's wrong about Mollie. I'm not scum reading mollie but wtf do I know?

3. I'll give a minor scum point for the no quick lynch claim - but only because Zek ended up being scum.

@pisskop

- Do you have anything outside of meta on Marquis [and possibly the bitching]? One game isn't super convincing.

[Yates]

Well he had already claimed

Well yeah but hasn't Marquis "claimed" IC? Or are you talking about the counter claim? I need to recheck the timing on that.

However no, my case really has fuck all to do with any of the reason you just gave.

That's what it looks like based on 1762. At least, that's what I infer from the posts you are quoting. Though I will admit I see where you may have thought I glossed over your scum defense point with the "wrong about his newb label" statement.

The case is that she lightly defended Zekrom all day 1 with the case of "he's new, let him off..." then changed her stance day 2, but didn't put any money where her mouth is. ie. expressed suspicion on someone but voted someone else

Yeah. Like I said, being wrong about a read isn't the same as being scum. Calling someone scummy for questioning a case is scummier than actually challenging a case that doesn't look legit. With that in mind; how do you differentiate between scum defending and someone legitimately questioning a case?

From her earlier stance, it was a bit of a 180, scummy due tot he circumstances in that Zekrom was obviously going to be questioned due to the missing nightkill.

This is another part of your case I have a problem with. You are trying to make it sound like not taking a hard stance on someone on day 1 and then acquiescing to a lynch on that same person later on day 2 is somehow scummy. Reads evolve, dude. I know you know that. So this makes me wonder WHY you would pretend that's somehow a valid point.

Frankly, this looks more like a tunnel than a case. Tunnels are bad because they make it hard to determine alignment on either player for the rest of us.

She tried to distance herself from him but lead another wagon,

one in which she didn't make a legitimate argument for

but kept enough of a door open to lynch her partner if she needed to.

The bolded is what really catches my attention. A simple ISO clears that up in a jiffy:
First, 1145 is clearly an OMGUS vote. Whatevs.

Second, 1233 shows a Mala tunnel starting on Mollie. [look familiar?]

Third, 1326 is a meta argument. Agree or disagree with the read, it's a legitimate reason for a vote.

Finally, in trying to read Mala in context [specifically 1326], I noticed that tman is playing pretty much the same game as mala only - to his credit - he has been posting. What I mean by "same game" is that he was pretty dialed in to Marquis on Day 1 [tunnel] and only moved to the Zek wagon in post 1345 because it had more traction. I point this out because I think we share a Townish read on Tman

.

Actually, finally FOR REAL, I hate that you made me defend a lurker by questioning the legitimacy of your case. I also have a slight Town read on you but that read is anything but solid. Just because I'm lazy and/or don't remember; what are your reads on Nik and Marquis?

[Yates]

chainsaw moar, yates

I think you don't know what a chainsaw is.

[Yates]

Whats the alt of Maquis?

Wait. Marquis is an alt? This would be good info.

mebbe you shld teach meh

If you are going to accuse me of something, at least know what you are accusing me of. A chainsaw is defending a scum buddy by attacking your scum buddy's attacker. This is a very good example of precisely why I'm questioning the legitimacy of this wagon. People are throwing crap around on what looks like an easy lynch that's gaining traction and I'm going to call you out on it. If mala get's lynched and flips scum? Fine. I'll probably look bad for it but whatever. If mala gets lynched and flips Town, I want to know who is the scum on the wagon because it isn't

always

the driver.

I still think Marq or nikanor are good lynches as well.

What do you think of mollie and RC?

PS LET'S LYNCH FUCKIN MALA OMG

Are you off the Marquis is scum kick? Also, do you know Marquis' alt? Also also, what's your opinion on RC?

Basically, I'm voting in the Nik, Marquis, and newly minted scum suspect RC [check ISO posts 53-65 for reason] pool. I'd only vote mala to prevent a no lynch but I'm not liking this wagon, obviously.

I also want to hear more out of Green Crayons and Elyse. I find myself nodding my head a lot when they post but they don't post enough.

[Yates]

stop fishing for that, it's incredibly bad form.

Really? I was unaware. My bad.

[Yates]

jesus christ ut you cannot tell me that you missed like an obvious thing like this

Well... aside from knowing wtf I'm talking about, there's a wiki link.

RC is town. The best we can do with her is try and convince her to vote with town.

Based on what? You are rapidly becoming a scum read for me mainly because of proclimations like this with absolutely no backing.

VOTE: Malakittens

There is a lot of resistance to her wagon which IMO is a good sign. Most of the resistance is talking about why she isn't scum rather than why she's town, which is another good sign.

Can you provide specific examples of what you're talking about?

That's actually a good point and the first thing anyone's said that has me reconsidering my mala read. You'd think a mala mislynch would be easier [though I recognize my role in preventing it]. I'm the only one that's actually questioned the

case

on mala - maybe Pere to a certain degree - and yet she isn't lynched yet. Some people aren't voting mala for reasons yet unknown and no one has really presented a stronger scum read, myself included.

What claim are we talking about?

Did you mean the IC claim?

I am an Innocent Child!

apparently the ! was necessary

...or the counter claim?

I'm the actual fucking oneshot vig. I tried to shoot him last night, fucker's probably mafia bulletproof.

I didn't reverse my read of Marquis at that point, and I wasn't defending Zekrom the previous day.

Fair enough. I guess you weren't defending Zekrom but you weren't making a Zekrom case either.

As an aside - I apologize in advance for any gramatical or spelling errors. I just had a Firestone Walker Succaba and a Lawson's Finest Maple Tripple. And I'm okay with that since they were both off the charts amazeballs.

[Yates]

Screw it.

VOTE: Mala

Tomorrow look at *MY* lynch pool.

[Yates]

Someone give me a 10 word post on why we're wagoning mala

Read this post then read this post. Ten word answer.

[Yates]

(1) I'm not saying it isn't a good point, I just want specific examples that motivated Elyse's comment for future consideration before we see Mala's alignment.

(2) Why should we think a Mala mislynch would be easier?

(3) So if Elyse's point is a good one (your words), and you're claiming that you're pretty much the only person who she could be talking about in making her point, why shouldn't we lynch you tomorrow if Mala flips scum? If Mala flips town, why isn't your observation a duplicitous, self-serving statement -- that is, you were the lone voice of reason speaking out against the misguided Mala-wagon?

(4) Why are you voting Mala?

1 - Fair enough

2 - A mislynch on a prod dodger IN GENERAL [ie. not just because it's Mala] is typically pretty easy in lieu of a solid scum suspect or lead.

3 - If she flips scum I'm sure I'll be lynched tomorrow so I'll worry about that if she flips scum. If she flips Town I don't care if you think my observations were "duplicitous" or "self-serving" so long as my actions enable me to figure out who the scum driving the wagon is. I note that you phrased this as a "heads I win, tails you lose" sort of question. Were you aware of this when you were typing it out?

4 - Lack of options in a game with marginal activity and 1 day left.

[Yates]

Nika looks incredibly bad for leaking daytalk knowledge. I think that means mala isn't scum, at least not with Nika. Further, if mala is a scum-encryptor, I wouldn't expect her to also enable daytalk for other QT's, so that'd be a strange thing for her to add.

I'd be more comfortable with this for today:
VOTE: Nikanor

Serra or Nikanor?

/flips coin

VOTE: Nikanor

[Yates]

Good job player of this game.

Thanks. I try. Is there some strong reason you think I should be voting Serra over Nik? To me, it looks like *NIKANOR* has more 'splainin to do than Serra.

[Yates]

Additionally, if I told you right now that UT and I were Bulletproof Mason Lovers, would you believe it?

What was the point of this? I think I'm missing something.

Man Serra is so scummy though.

Agree or disagree: Nick scum flip = probable Serra Town?

[Yates]

I think it has something to do with him asking the wrong questions (such as his question to Marquise in 1986)

Once Marquis answers the question you won't be able to say this and expect anyone to believe it.

Nikanor scum buddy detected:

Look you might be right that nik is scum. I'm just pointing out that your reasoning is flawed

I agree that Yates' questions seem "off."

Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

[Yates]

Additionally, if I told you right now that UT and I were Bulletproof Mason Lovers, would you believe it?

What was the point of this? I think I'm missing something.

[Yates]

Marquis has been just saying stupid bullshit all game

I'm not arguing that point but I'm assuming there is a reason Marquis requoted one of her "stupid bullshit" posts - THAT "stupid bullshit" post to be specific. I would really REALLY like her to answer the question before I tell you why that post is important to me rather than to undermine the whole process.

I'll give it 12 hours or just make assumptions and explain myself.

[Yates]

I'd rather not claim anything at the moment so stop trying me to get to confirm (or deny) anything

But YOU are the one that posted that! You are obviously trying to hint at/communicate SOMETHING... And if it's what I'm about to accuse you of I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there. I don't buy it and I will hang you if you go down that road.

[Yates]

we could just wagon Marquis to L-1 to make him claim

This may have merit...

Why are we wagoning Serra over Nik, again? Because he didn't mention flipped scum in his reads?

[Yates]

@L-1

Nik needs to claim

Townie.

[Yates]

intent yo
pedit shuddup you

It took you 49 minutes to type "intent yo?"

[Yates]

yeah I could do elyse

Why elyse? I'm kind of reading her as Town. There are too many people playing scummy right now and she doesn't crack the top 4.

Also, iirc Marquis *still* has some 'splainin to do.

[Yates]

Yates, I'm not claiming anything for you.

will you claim at L-1

Let's find out!

VOTE: Marquis

Put everyone at L-1 and make them claim

Good idea. Lets put everyone that fake crumbed a role at L-1. Here's the list of people that did that for you to choose from:

1. Marquis
/list

K if UT isn't happening, even though it should

VOTE: Yates

No Thanks. Yates is my only conf-Town.

PE: ^^ Ditto Serra-scum

[Yates]

so why are you not voting serra, yates?

I need info out of Marquis. She appears to be claiming mason. If so, I'm calling BS.

[Yates]

Are you kidding me stop trying to get the mason to cc a crumb that isn't even that

I'm not? YOU are the one crumbing mason. I am saying you are NOT the mason and the REAL mason has no need to cc because your crumb is not believable. Are you going to own your crumb or wait until lylo to make something up based on known flips?

[Yates]

Also, who gives a fart if the mason gets forced to counter you after you fake claim? Our mason is effectively an IC at this point and if your scum buddies want to waste their NK on an IC then bully for them as long as it catches you.

[Yates]

yates is openly trying to out the masons and then saying the mafia won't kill them

Where am I doing that? False accusation is false. I *specifically* said I was *not* outting the mason and that the mason had *NO NEED* to counter.

Are you unconcerned with the fact Marquis *IS* claiming to be the mason? When - you know - she's NOT the mason?

[Yates]

is marquis doing that?

YUP.

Additionally, if I told you right now that UT and I were Bulletproof Mason Lovers, would you believe it?

What was the point of this? I think I'm missing something.

[Yates]

Further reading:

Spoiler:

I'd rather not claim anything at the moment so stop trying me to get to confirm (or deny) anything

But YOU are the one that posted that! You are obviously trying to hint at/communicate SOMETHING...

And if it's what I'm about to accuse you of I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there. I don't buy it and I will hang you if you go down that road.

Yates, I'm not claiming anything for you.

will you claim at L-1

Let's find out!

VOTE: Marquis

Put everyone at L-1 and make them claim

Good idea.

Lets put everyone that fake crumbed a role at L-1

. Here's the list of people that did that for you to choose from:

1. Marquis
/list

[Yates]

Bottom line:
- I'm accusing Marquis of fake claiming mason.
- I'm saying I can prove it *without* the REAL mason needing to counter.
- I'm saying that it's scummy to fake claim mason.
- I'm trying to make her hard claim something she's *trying* to soft claim in order to remove wiggle room.

PE: Then WTF is up with that quote that - btw - YOU requoted after the mason flip? Huh??

[Yates]

stop looking at one word I said in RVS

For reference - post 1975 was

NOT

in RVS. So nice attempt at a misrep.

[Yates]

j

f

c

So no answer, then?

[Yates]

the 1 game I played with him when he was scum he put forth effort and made sense at a time when it was weird to do so.

Everything I say *ALWAYS* makes sense - in my head.

[Yates]

This is legit frustrating.

[Yates]

Okay. I'm a dunce.

UNVOTE: Marquis

I wasn't seeing the forest for the trees.

[Yates]

VOTE: serrapaladin

Should have listened yesterday but my bromance precluded me from doing it.

[Yates]

We are lynching between Yates and Marq today and I am starting to lean Yates.

Well then you better get explaining because as far as I'm concerned Marq isn't getting lynched as long as I'm alive. And my lynch won't go through either. So you're going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Yates]

my fuck it would have been so much more effective if I had not screwed up the vote tags

Truly.

[Yates]

blood and thunder

let none remain

What?

[Yates]

your lynch won't go through? do tell.

In due time.

In the mean time, why are YOU voting Yates? I'm not going to let you pretend it's because you think I was trying to out the mason. It's clear I was role fishing - but only Marquis and Marquis knows why so...???

[Yates]

fuck it.

Also seems like a - well -

not good

reason for joining a wagon. Care to elaborate?

[Yates]

Why does Serra keep escaping the noose

Easy answer? He has people helping him.

[Yates]

Why does Serra keep escaping the noose

Ho-ly-Crap... I could hug you.

Serra-RC scum team! Book it!

[Yates]

Alright - I'm going to bed. I expect to see cases when I wake up. And you're going to want me to claim before you do something terrible so don't do something terrible while I'm sleeping.

[Yates]

Aw hell naw.

Ha! Touché. How long have you been walking around with THAT in your back pocket?

I am so confident on Mhork right now

I'm targeting Ms M tonight

. This information is important.

See the difference? In that game, I hinted at having a PR. Ironically, that's why I initially thought Marquis was scummy here. I didn't say "my lynch won't go through" like I did last night. My concern last night was getting run up so quickly without so much as a case. If you were Town, I would have expected you to say something yourself given the complete lack of information my mislynch would have given you.

Also, it's not like this would be the first time I made a bold prediction like that as Town, would it?

Spoiler:

I will sig bet you that you can not get me mislynched within the next 72 real hours. This is a limited time offer so get to work. Chop chop. If I'm not lynched by this time Saturday night, you lose.

Instead of wasting everyones time with a lynch that I can 100% guarantee will not go through, why don't you tell me what you think of Plum?

Bottom line: you are rolefishing me. I'm not going to take the bait. If your scum-padres want to know my role you will have to get them to vote me up to L-1 or shoot me tonight.

[Yates]

Where is everybody today?

@RC

- I have a response for you but I don't feel like cluttering up the thread until after Serra is lynched. It's a pretty sweet post that shows you why you're wrong, demonstrates how you are illustrating cog-dis, and finally explains how I uncovered the secret RC-Serra link. So stay tuned.

[Yates]

@Yatesy: me today and you tomorrow?

TBQH - I think it's going to be you today, RC tomorrow, profit??

As noted in my post above, she's going to need to explain some stuff...

Spoiler:

@RC

- What's funny about this:

I did VOTE: because of

so the current wagon is on mala because she didn't quick hammer? Is that the basic gist?

Is that you are doing exactly what I did *in the same post*

I'm curious though. Why did everyone jump on the Yates wagon?

My motivation throughout this game has been to determine why people are voting the way they are. You will notice I tend to do that with flash wagons that have votes without a lot of people explaining THEIR votes. Case in point:

Why are we wagoning Serra over Nik, again? Because he didn't mention flipped scum in his reads?

So not only are you wrong about my intent with that post, but I also find a lot of cognitive dissonance in why you claim to find me scummy versus how you are playing your current hand. However, if you think I defend my scum buddies, feel free to vote Serra since I "defended" him yesterday [which led to the Nik mislynch]. He'd just be the third scum wagon I happened to fall onto.

As a side note, since you didn't ask, I'll just TELL you why I think you're scum with Serra. I had an epiphany yesterday when I was ISOing Serra to see who was "helping" him [outside of myself - as quoted above]. Then I ISOed you to verify something that stood out. You hadn't mention Serra even ONCE in your ISO [not until your last post TODAY]. And it's not like he didn't have heavy pressure on him yester-game-day. You couldn't find one thing to comment on? Similarly, Serra has mentioned you all of ONCE in his ISO:

UT, RC, Marquis, Ythan are all town from today.

That's it. No explanation. You're Town for no reason. And you are never mentioned again. I think that's weird. Don't you?

[Yates]

Make a list of the people I have mentioned in my ISO. I guarantee it's less than half the living players.

Well, that's a problem in itself.

Spoiler:

That said, here are some people that got run up to 4 or more and how many times you mentioned them:

UT - well - you tunneled on UT right off the bat [tons of mentions]

Zek - mentioned 6 times - mostly like this:

I will NL over a zekrom lynch.

Until you flipped on him when he was the obvlynch.

sthar - mentioned 6 times

marquis - mentioned 9 times plus your fake dayvig target

mala - mentioned 3 times

nik - mentioned twice

Serra - zero

[Yates]

Guys, I'm going to be LA for a bit. Had a little accident involving a mandolin making breakfast this morning. I have what's called a "partial amputation" of my right thumb and can't really type all that well. I'm reading and will post but my posts will need to be short and sweet.

[Yates]

Actually, can we lynch RC if Serra flips scum please?

[Yates]

Wow. That escalated quickly...

Intent to Hammer

[Yates]

Dear NS,

Please confirm you understand my

Intent to Hammer

.

<3 Yates

[Yates]

I'm not really following the Ythan-GC thing - nor do I really care right now.

Where the hell is NS? He's due a prod, right? We need a claim.

[Yates]

drop the hammer

Monday night. I just realized like 1/2 the game isn't posting. Let's assume this is some long weekend excuse and give him Monday to get caught up or hanged.

[Yates]

do you think his being at L-1 has anything to do with his not being caught up? What are you getting at right here?

NS, RC, and pisskop all haven't posted yet. It would be nice to hear from RC and pisskop. Then you kind of have to give NS a chance to claim so we can do the fake claim tango. It's only been 2 days. *shrug*

I wouldn't be SUPER pissed if someone else hammered but yeah, I agree with DN - it would be nice to hear from everyone first.

[Yates]

It's quite simple

Is that why you aren't on the NS wagon? Or do you think NS is town?

[Yates]

Dear Kagami,

Welcome to the game. I'm going to hammer you today. Please claim.

Love,

Yates

[Yates]

I guess I'm scum, then.

VOTE: Kagami

On the plus side, now you don't have to read.

[Yates]

UNVOTE: Kagami

Meh. It was worth a shot. Got a claim out of him anyway.

[Yates]

Yates, same question.

...the point of a claim is to avoid lynching town utility. What was the point to you?

Same. I'm fine with lynching a VT claim. I unvoted because Mollie appears to be "doing stuff."

can some1 unvote plz

We have 9 days so I'm not in a rush. Are you?

[Yates]

I would lynch her and definitely don't want to be in endgame with her (

or RC slot

)

Re: RC slot - Bulba is the new RC and has two content promise posts. I think the slot is broken.

[Yates]

In the GC/Ythan argument

What's your read on Ythan? I start thinking he's Town then he does something derp like the GC/Ythan thing or trying to rush a lynch on a replacement.

[Yates]

That's not really a good thing, and would be a very bad thing if I were a more valuable role.

If you were a role of any value, and you were getting lynched anyway, what does it matter? I'm sure you've played mafia on this site before. Also, now you are tied to a VT claim so if a tracker or watcher or something like that exists in this game you better be home every night. AND you can't pull any LYLO shens with any authority later. So, there's that.

PE: I was literally asking for your Marquis, DN and Ythan reads in this post. What about your reads on me and GC?

[Yates]

Hey Elyse, what makes you say this?

Ythan looks better and GC looks worse after Kagami's flip.

[Yates]

Wait. Never mind. I misread that and thought I saw something. I am p-sure I'm town reading scum. This bothers me.

Nacho - why are you voting Elyse?

Marquis - why are you voting DN?

I have a pretty strong town read on 3 of the 4 people above so I'd like to start here.

[Yates]

Yates: Yates's play has been bothering me. He's been focusing on issues that the average town player would know better than to focus on. He focused on Nikanor's fake day guilty. Why? Anyone who has played any sort of mafia knows that was fake. Why push it and ask if it was serious? Same thing with Marquis's fake claim in RVS. That's obviously fake, but Yates pushed it as something serious to get Marquis lynched. He focused on my slot during the last day phase, suddenly expecting me to read a 100+ page game in under a week. Essentially, Yates has been trying to find little things to force a lynch on. He's not actually trying to scum hunt, just to look like. But it's the fake soft claim that nails him. Did anyone else catch him softing mason on d4? I will admit, that gave me pause. Until I went back through the ISOs. It's true that Poro never really mentions him, but Yates actually did something that no mason partner would ever do: He FoS'd Poro early in the game. How could Yates be Poro's mason partner if he's trying to say Poro is scum? That is ludicrous. And watch him say he never was trying to claim that, even though he was trying to lynch Marquis on the basis of a fake mason claim and constantly said that he would never be lynched and we would be sorry if we did lynch him, all of which points to him being mason. And let's not forget all those times he went mason fishing beforehand.

I have 8 minutes to type this post...

1. Re: Nikanor - Why would I question a claim? Is this something I actually have to answer?
2. Re: Marq - Same as above plus:
3. Re: Softclaim - "And watch him say he never was trying to claim that [mason]" - I was never was trying to claim that. I was intimating that I know who the mason is and that it isn't Marquis. Being that I know who the mason is and being that I thought Marquis was claiming mason, why *wouldn't* I focus on that? While I'm not going to out the real mason, I can show you why I know Marquis

isn't

the mason:

Back to the game,

Marquis Im leaning scum

, but Malascum, I'm coming for you.

"Leaning scum." I will admit that if I were a mason with Poro, something like that FoS you pointed out [contrary to your purported opinion, btw] would be TOTALLY in line with me distancing from my mason buddy in order to make the two of us harder to figure out in the event one of us got killed. Of course, we'd also work out a way to verify in the event one of us needed to claim later. This is something I expect to see if/when the real mason is forced to claim.

4. Re: fake mason claims and why I would pursue them - You know who else didn't like fake mason claims??

VOTE: Marquis
Me and Pirate are the actual masons. Lynch this please.

What happens when you decide to blatantly cut sentences to make cases?

unvote, vote

radiantcowbells

Bulba

Anyway,

RC

Bulba is probably a good place to put a vote.

5. Re: my "focus" on your slot yesterday - this is the sum total of my laser focus on your slot:

Re: RC slot - Bulba is the new RC and has two content promise posts. I think the slot is broken.

No one expects you to read the whole game. I *would* expect you to at least look at the deadline wagons, though. Doesn't seem like a stretch to expect - oh - ANYTHING after a full week. Somehow Kagami and Nacho managed to post content...

6. Re: lack of activity from your slot - You know how many scum wagons your slot has been on? It shouldn't take too long to count to zero. Conversely, I killed the Mafia RB and the Mafia Encryptor. So for a non-contributing slot to wonder why I - as someone that has contributed reads, advanced the game, killed scum, and actually scum hunted contrary to your bs accusation - would have the gall to call your slot "broken" is laughable.

VOTE: Bulba

More later but I'm fired up right now.

[Yates]

Back...

So to clarify point 3. There's a difference between calling someone a scum read and using an FoS. You typically don't HARD distance from your mason buddy by claiming to have a scum read on them because it makes verifying the claim in the event of your death nearly impossible. An FoS? Sure. That can be brushed off but not a committed scum read. That's why I was calling shens and absolutely NOT "mason fishing" as you claim. Besides, that's pretty much the dumbest thing you could say. When's the last time you actually saw scum blatantly role fish? This isn't Road to Rome and I'm not a noob. Grow up.

And to expand on point 6 [and sort of the noob comment in point 3] - unless you think scum have nothing but PR's, don't you think scum Yates and his buddies would rather bus a goon than an RB and an Encryptor? Again, not a noob. Check my scum games for examples in - oh - probably EVERY scum game I've ever bussed in... Oh - ANNNNND the only reason I wasn't "on" the Kagami wagon is because I got off to allow Mollie to "do stuff" and Kagami got hammered before I got back.

With that off my chest, I'm actually going to pursue the lead I just dropped in that last point. Time to see who actively pushed counter wagons on Zek, Mala, and Kagami/NS/EPM slot.

[Yates]

I'm inclined to believe scum would much rather keep Mason speculation to their QuickTopic

This much is true. That said, as the events of the game unfolded I had no way of tying your mason statement from day 1 to Poro [or ANY mason that might or might not have existed] until Poro flipped mason. And, of course, he didn't flip mason until after *we* lynched the mafia encryptor. *shrug* But anyway, you were part of that discussion so you know exactly what I was thinking and can at least verify that I was right to pursue that line of questioning. Which, I think, is the true irony here. Bulba is trying to paint my inquiry as a mason fish while it was in fact calling out what I had perceived as a fake claim. And not acting on that information is what would have been detrimental to Town, imo. What a joke.

[Yates]

Yup: Elyse, tman, Marq, GC.

Ok. Obligatory

INTENT TO HAMMER

. I haven't actually read the case yet because I'm still bothered by something...

[Yates]

What's bothering me...

Bulba? Seriously? You said this???

Nachomamma8: I want to believe town, mainly because I have a hard time thinking he'd replace into a scum slot with 2 buddies down, and then bus another one, especially when Kagami could have turned that slot around. However, this is Nacho, and I don't want to rush into a town read prematurely.

And then ignored looking at where my slot was on each of those wagons??

So, you don't think Nacho would replace in to a scum slot down two players BUT you *do* think I would bus a third scum PR???

What I wouldn't do for a bullet...

[Yates]

I haven't actually read the case yet

Oh he replaced pisskop. I'm cool with this.

[Yates]

Oh he replaced pisskop. I'm cool with this.

Nope. My bad. I was thinking of another game.

Is it for the marquis tunnel + soft defending scum?

[Yates]

Can you talk to me about Bulba for a sec? Am I conf biasing here or is his attack on me... uh... inconsistent with how he's claiming to read people?

[Yates]

I mean, I know that was his intention now but at the time, I read his interaction as intention to counter claim.

That's my point, though, DN. Bulba wasn't even in the game during that conversation. He had the luxury of replacing in after all the dust had settled and is still acting like he perceived that as a mason fish. Between that and his stated reason for obv-Towning Marquis while ignoring the fact I did the same thing? Yeah. It's not adding up. It looks like someone trying to fabricate reads when logic is applied in such an inconsistent manner. He came in, saw most everyone is obv-Towning Marquis, then decided to also obv-Town Marquis. Town read for the "wrong reason?" That pings hard.

[Yates]

Look at all these people who are on multiple scum wagons. Take a cookie.

Couple of comments on this:

1. If you are referring to me? I agree with you - mostly. However, I'm referring to the post counts in an effort to point out a logical inconsistency in Bulba's arguments. I'm not using the count to build a case on anyone.

2. That said - unless one of you, Elyse, or Ythan are scum? Take a look at how much bussing has been done by this scum team. Zek. That's it. And Zek sealed his own fate Day 1 so Mala p-much HAD to bus. Now, I bring this up not because of the VC per se but as evidence supporting the prevailing theory that the scum team is likely comprised of less experienced scum. That's really a note more for myself but one of those things that really stood out to me during a reread because I wasn't buying the "noob-scum" theory or understanding where it was even coming from. I'm reconsidering my position on this.

[Yates]

It's 9:02 AM my time. I'll give Nacho until lunch [~3 hours] to claim. 14 hours from intent is more than enough time to come up with a claim.

[Yates]

Yeah. I like to give people time to claim.

VOTE: Nacho

[Yates]

I'll be posting my response to Yates later when I don't have to worry about my computer crashing in the middle of writing a giant wall.

Looking forward to it.

[Yates]'s scum, and there's no inconsistancies to my reads, as my response will show.

Please be sure to hard commit to your "Yates is scum" case. I suspect it will be especially convincing given you have already voted and unvoted another player so early in the day phase.

[Yates]

It looks like today is the day Yates will have to prove his Towniness so let's get this show on the road...

Leaning voting Ythan or Yates today honestly

Is this because you actually think we are scum or because you think the current surviving players will be willing to vote for us?

This would not have pinged as loudly for me if you had posted this before tman's read list in 2662.

I'm looking at your ISO and see nothing suggesting a case on me - like ever - yet you keep

saying

I might be scum or I could be scum and I keep ignoring it [mostly] because you never seem to back it up. And your impression of me seems to change based on how the rest of the game is reading me. I'm calling you out on this because I don't like it and it feels fake.

The first time you call me scummy is in post 2159 during the Yates-Marquis debate surrounding her "fake claim." And you vote me the next post when that's an easy/popular opinion. When I press you on it in post 2165 I am summarily ignored. Ultimately my wagon collapsed and I never really followed up on the people that voted me for no reason but that vote looks hella-opportunistic in retrospect.

Once that support goes away, I'm suddenly an afterthought scum read in post 2209? Really? I guess I was under the impression I was a super scum read from 2159 but since you never qualified your read nor quantified the strength of it, perhaps I'm being hyper-sensitive?

Oh wait. I'm not. Because suddenly you accuse me of being "a great vote too" in post 2599. So I guess I'm scum again? And what's crazy is that you claim your scum read is based on my "fluff posting back when

was pressuring a mason claim out of Marq" as if no new information ever came out between posts 1986 and 2598 - SPECIFICALLY post 2153 wherein Marquis herself reveals "Yates is really really right yet really really wrong" regarding my accusation of her fake claiming mason.

And finally in post 2636 "He is trying to state that he knew Marq wasn't a mason but that whole interaction that day phase just came off as him preparing to counter claim Mason if Marq was going to stick to her trololol fake claim." This is totally fake. How could you POSSIBLY hold this opinion?

My reason for questioning the above? THESE posts happened:
post 2141 "I *specifically* said I was *not* outting the mason and that

the mason had *NO NEED* to counter

."
post 2147 "I'm saying I can prove it

*without* the REAL mason needing to counter

."
post 2603 "I can show you why I [knew] Marquis isn't the mason: 'Marquis Im leaning scum' from poro"

I mean... you say that but.... is [Marquis] really [Town]?

I mean, you know no one is going to vote Marquis, right? This post looks terrible and much like something I would expect to see from scum setting up their LYLO lynch.

[Yates]

This is kind of important - does ANYONE think scum intentionally no killed last night?

[Yates]

Interesting....

How is that "interesting?" You basically created a false dichotomy by claiming you'd vote Yates

or

Ythan and MYLO/LYLO is likely tomorrow. What would you expect?

And before you try to discredit my reaction by saying you were "leaning" towards us - use of the word "leaning" may as well be replaced with "intending." So let's just avoid the whole semantic argument please. It's been a long game and will just create clutter.

I already stated that I wasn't going to vote Marq but that doesn't mean she is confirmed clear town

I get that. But it reads to me as "I'm not going to vote for Marquis

today

. And it's reinforced when you say things like "if I am put in some sort of 3 way lylo with her and anyone else, I am going to be hard pressed to not lynch her" in post 2676. So you see why I'm not loving this?

There are exactly two confirmed Town as far as I'm concerned - based on events - and Marquis is one of them. The other is the mason. I've known the identity of the mason LITERALLY since Poro's flip. And it's pretty obvious. And I could prove it in advance of the mason claim if I ever do live to mass claim stage. And that's part of why your accusation that I was "pressuring a mason claim out of Marq" rings as hollow.

Why is it so important?

Maybe is not really a great answer to a yes/no question. What is your "gut" feeling on the matter? The importance is pretty obvious; a need to explain a no kill and possible answers to that result.

[Yates]

I don't see why scum would purposely no kill with potential masons around

Agreed. Plus Town PR's still in play. They are going to find themselves painted into a POE corner.

is there a chance they forgot to kill?

Highly doubtful. 48 hours is plenty of time to agree on 1/7 or 1/6 players - especially when there is Town consensus on 1 or 2 of them.

If we massclaim and find no PR that could have prevented the kill, then we could start looking at people who were inactive at the time.

I think this point is likely moot. Guess we'll see.

How many scum are left? 1 or 2?

Best guess is 2. I don't think 4 scum and a survivor makes a lot of sense. Ultimately, I guess it depends on the power of the last scum role/roles. RB and strongman are pretty powerful. Encryptor's strength depends on how much value you place on scum day talk. But even with that, 4/21 seems light.

[Yates]

Happy Easter!


I'll be caught up tonight or [more likely] tomorrow. [Skimmed the post above. LAWL! Not even sure it's worth responding to. But I will...]

[Yates]

Nurse - now doctor. FTR - I was not self-aware. Matias and I received a VT role PM.

No protection N1
N2 - Marquis
N3 - Marquis
N4 - Elyse
N5 - Elyse

Marquis's claim was obviously RVS BS.

Was it? So I guess post 1975 was RVS, then?

BULL.

Which part? The part where I go on to show you in post 2603 how I knew Marquis wasn't Poro's Mason buddy or the part where I said my lynch wouldn't go through and it subsequently didn't?

You do not distance from your mason partner.

Which is my point, yes? I'm saying there's a difference between distancing ["leaning scum"] and trying to blur the line a bit ["FOS"] so the connection isn't obvious.

for someone trying to argue that you weren't setting yourself up for a mason claim, you are beginning to set yourself up for a mason claim here by trying to convince us that Poro could have absolutely been masons with you and have been "distancing" from you

Is that what I was doing? Or was I simply illustrating the point above?

Except I ALWAYS read the full game when I replace in.

Well aren't you special. And how's that working out for you? Seems like a HUGE overreaction to an accurate observation on a slot. You might have cause for paranoia if I was pushing to lynch the lurker slot at

any point

during this game. But this? It looks like an attempt to find evidence to fit the "read" as opposed to the other way around - at best. Really, it looks like a massive misrep and an outright lie to me - especially in regards to the "pushing for a PL here" comment. With the exception of a lulzy "I might lynch Marquis just to shut her up" comment way early in the game [which was a joke but I'll be generous and say you can mischaracterize that as a PL push], where do you see me pushing for policy lynches? I'd like specific quotes please and thank you.

your actual contribution to the scum lynches were minimal

Regardless of how you want to "perceive" my contributions to those lynches, I was part of them. You claimed to have a Town read on someone for being part of ONE of those lynches and called me scummy in the SAME POST even though I was part of TWO. I'm not using the fact I was a member of those scum lynches as proof I'm Town - I'm using that to challenge your logic. So don't try to misrep my case by taking those statements out of context.

This is what discrediting looks like.

Yup. That's what discrediting looks like. I'm saying your "read" [claiming 'Yates is scum because blah blah misrep'] and your actions ['vote tman'] are not in alignment therefore you have discredited yourself. Nice job.

[Yates]

Secret nurse is normal?

Yup.

[Yates]

Aren't you prepared.

Only since - like - post 2165 or so. In case I had to claim to prevent a mislynch.

[Yates]

these townreads are too strong to ignore

I empathize. The 2 scum are in Bulba, Ythan, tman, or GC. Of those 4? I have had pretty good town reads on GC and tman all game [which likely means one of them is scum that beat me]. My read on Ythan has probably changed more than for any other person in any other game. It's like reading posts from a disconnected hydra! As a result, I wouldn't be surprised by a flip in EITHER direction. My concern with voting Bulba is that his slot was an empty slot the whole game so really there isn't a ton of information to work from there. I've been hating Bulba's posts but since they've been tunneling on me I have to recognize that there's a lot of confirmation bias in how I'm reading his slot.

So that's where I'm at.

[Yates]

Maybe I skimmed past this but Yates you have an unrevealed probable confirmed town you're holding onto right?

No? That's why I asked if anyone thought there was a chance scum no killed last night. Based on events, my reveal, and my post above it should be pretty easy to determine the probable confirmed Townie is Elyse.

[Yates]

but n6 and n7? is it still elyse, or are you purposely witholding this?

My bad. Copy pasta fail.

No protection N1
N2 - Marquis
N3 - Marquis
N4 - Elyse
N5 - Elyse
N6 - Elyse
N7 - Elyse [no kill!]

[Yates]

Yates, why did you stay on Elyse so much?

Is this something you are expecting me to answer? [Not being cheeky]

[Yates]

Good.

VOTE: Bulba

[Yates]

You and Elyse should be top picks for kills now so I don't see how you can put Elyse in any more danger...

Fair enough. I have been assuming Elyse is Poro's mason since his flip.

[Yates]

That's the problem. Simple logic should have insta-lynched Yates as soon as he claimed.

This version of nurse is EXPLICITLY normal. Trying to equate it to bastard modding or sanity is garbage scum flailing. Your ATE is also weak sauce.

The more you post the better I feel about this lynch.

[Yates]

I'm having some words with Desperado and Tierce after this game is over.

Can I come? I'll bring the popcorn.

[Yates]

You have all my info.

Bottom line; never lynch Elyse, Marquis, or DN.

This has been a fun game. Catch you all on the flip flop!

o7

[Yates]

Elyse?!

Alright. I'm going to be judging at TAP NY today. Needless to say, I likely won't be posting for the rest of the day. When I log back in, it would be super-awesome to have a better idea of what was up with the mason fake claim.

[Yates]

Elyse?!

Alright. I'm going to be judging at TAP NY today. Needless to say, I likely won't be posting for the rest of the day. When I log back in, it would be super-awesome to have a better idea of what was up with the mason fake claim.

[Yates]

Like... it would be a pretty awesome gambit for Scum to no kill then Yates claims to protect his partner.

Are you effing serious right now? Or are you claiming scum in thread??

Yeah. That would be a pretty ballsy gambit.

Suicidal

if Elyse had been countered but ballsy. And, bt-dubs, Elyse had no pressure or need to claim.

What you're suggesting would have made since if we were scumbutts and one of us was a mafia silencer or something [noted for future games btw!]. I just went and checked - Tman posted several times yesterday [in fact was first voter of the day]. So do yourself a favor and dump that dumpster fire of a thought down the drain.

[Yates]

He didn't cc me (though I didn't think he got the chance to post), but why the hell would I claim that when I'm not?

I guess I'm not understanding. You're saying all three of you were masons together, right? If so, why WOULD HE counter you? Seems like if he had seen you claim he would have ALSO claimed and said it was a 3 mason team or something... What am I missing here?

[Yates]

How they hell did mafia figure killing Tman was better then killing Yates? Did he slip up as mason or something?

3 masons.... I honestly don't know what to think about that. Rushing into an Elyse lynch seems bad when this is potentially mylo.

I am actually thinking about both of these things. It's possible they are both linked. I'm starting to think there might only be one scum left. I can expand on this if needed but based on flips I think the last scum is PR hunting and not worried about a mason or doc. I am a little concerned/paranoid that we might have an obv Town read on scum [Marquis/DN] but think the PR hunting makes the most sense. Again, I can expand on this if needed.

Point being, I'm not confident this is mylo BUT my theory is just a theory. My claim is out there. So if you guys want to talk mass claim, that's up to you.

[Yates]

I'm saying that if I was scum and was claiming mason, why wouldn't tman counter me?

Got ya. Your saying Tman would have countered you IF you were scum - not to just randomly out himself. Yes. This I agree with.

[Yates]

Ehh... if Mafia have an added kill ability, I would be willing to wager only 1 scum left then. 4 scum with decent powers against a large town with meh powers. (Although 3 masons is pretty good)

Yeah. This is

exactly

what I'm thinking. This is also why I'm not sold on the no lynch strategy. I feel like we waste any advantage we have by no lynching.

Let's say we no lynch today and tomorrow I'm dead. What did we learn? Or what if Elyse is dead? Same question? The lynch pool will *still* be Ythan/GC, imho. I just feel like this is our poop or get off the pot moment.

[Yates]

I'm still not convinced on you being town, though.

Is it anything outside of paranoia? I feel like I'd be obv Town reading me so I guess I'm not sure what your concern is.

Here's a serious question that is not an accusation at all; why are you still alive? You have hinted at being a PR and have been fairly "obv Town" consensus pretty much since I replaced in. So what gives?

Or are you saying there is a second strongman?

This is what I'm thinking. Again, I don't want to expand too much on this right now in case you guys mass claim. I don't want to give anyone any ideas. That said; certain flips suggest something about our current game state. I'll leave it at that.

...my natural thought process brought me to thinking of a Yates/Elyse combo...

especially since Tman never claimed after Elyse claimed

giving it that air of wifom that maybe he would have countered.

Put yourself in Tman's shoes. What would you do if Elyse was lying? What would you do if Elyse is telling the truth? I don't think the fact he *didn't* post after her claim necessarily means he *couldn't have* posted if he saw something he needed to post about. Frankly, I get why he would be trying to stay under the radar. Do I have that little tingle that says Elyse *could be* faking and *maybe* tman just didn't have time to counter? Yeah. Sure. I guess it's a non-zero chance. I could show you the posts that lead me to believe Elyse-Poro masons [because who assumes THREE masons??] but I think GC has already shown them. So I don't know what more I could do here. Plus, there was the no kill the other night while I was protecting Elyse. Could scum have just no killed HOPING I was protecting Elyse? I guess. I just don't think it's likely. If Elyse is scum, she deserves the win b/c I got played.

[Yates]

I want to make sure I understand your apprehension (because currently I don't).

It mostly has to do with my conviction there's only 1 scum left. I get why people think there are two. I do. But I feel like this morning's info has really solidified my opinion.

[Yates]

Guys, I'm likely going to replace out due to a death in the family.

Since it's so close to end game, I'll post if I can until replaced.

Sorry. Good luck.

[Yates]

Fun fact: my role reveal was an accident. I was writing up a possible scenario to float in scum chat. Then I typed in my response to a different post. I accidentally copy and pasted the WHOLE THING instead of just my response.

Had to stick with it at that point. Kudos to Anti for pulling it off. Apologies to Anti and DN for putting you guys in that spot to begin with. We got lucky with our PR hunt kills. 3rd Mason would have ended the game for us.