LoL eSports Discussion

[BROseidon]

Dat tiebreaker.

KREPO ANIVIA OP.

[BROseidon]

[BROseidon]

C9 is the only NA team with a shot at keeping up with the Koreans.

But even that is probably a stretch. There are a lot of systemic issues with how NA/EU teams approach the game that will continue to prevent them from keeping even with the Koreans.

[BROseidon]

C9 is the only team in NA that has a chance at worlds. The Koreans are too stronk.

Also, fucking Faker...

[BROseidon]

I know. Hopefully Faker will make it so we can see more epic Zed plays.

[BROseidon]

EG curse?

I honestly think their team is fine right now. Europe as a whole has been struggling, and I think it has to do with how they practice >.>

[BROseidon]

EU is just the weakest region right now. Both EU and NA have a lot to learn from how the Koreans train, but I think C9 might be able to keep pace with the Korean teams right now. It's actually a little scary how quickly C9 has improved over the past year.

[BROseidon]

SKT T1 is probably going to win.

It's also a little jank that Black Sword gets to go over KT Rolster B, given that KT Rolster B is the much better champ right now. It's like a team starting a baseball season going like 70-30, then going like 20-42 for the remaining games. Still get your bye for doing well at the start, but you're probably still going to lose.

[BROseidon]

You got into the second split.

[BROseidon]

Oh shit.

ggnore.

[BROseidon]

You forgot the part where faker is a god.

[BROseidon]

SHUT UP OMG VS SKT T1 IS ABOUT TO START.

[BROseidon]

Fizz is a solid pick vs. Ahri given the context of nothing actually countering her. She has even or better lane matchups against almost everyone. The fact that Fizz theoretically wins that matchup pretty solidly makes him a good pick in theory. In practice, though, Fizz is a risky as fuck pick b/c the matchup goes south really fast if the execution isn't there (which it hasn't been today).

[BROseidon]

Lovelin is playing insanely well.

[BROseidon]

But again, we're seeing the WEAKEST qualifiers from the Asian regions vs the BEST qualifiers from EU. If all regions were equal (big if) Fnatic should stomp the round robin.

Except because of the way the qualifiers work this isn't really true.

OMG and SKT T1 won the most recent seasons in their leagues, but didn't get byes because of the fact that performances from like 9 months ago matter. It's sort of like baseball; the scariest team in the playoffs is not the one with the best record, but the one that's hot going at the end of the regular season.

[BROseidon]

but it's simplest to accept seeding and not reevaluate until outcomes are set

Except plenty of sports don't do this, and the different regions having different systems means that we need to draw different parallels.

NA/EU is a lot like football. Because the relevant season was so short, the seeding coincided with current team strength pretty solidly.

China and Korea play out more like baseball. Because the measured duration is so long, the overall "best record" can (and often does) get decided early, and by the time that team reaches the playoffs, they'd have become weaker. That's what's happened with NJ Sword and to a lesser extent Ozone. SKT T1 is the "hot" team coming in, which means that they're the team to be more afraid. of.

Hell, even tennis, which SEEDS TEAMS BASED ON RANKINGS, doesn't follow the seeds to the letter in terms of expected strength because of how rankings in tennis work (tournament points that last a year from each tournament+delays on when seeding happens vs when a tournament happens).

[BROseidon]

I don't actually know how that works because basketball bores me >.>

[BROseidon]

So it's actually just arbitrary.

[BROseidon]

Russian Bootcamp OP.

[BROseidon]

I don't think putting Shyv into the 1v2 with a Xin jungle was a smart choice vs Zac and Aatrox. Diamond couldn't dive top or hold turret bot. While Diamond made great use of his time with the early counterjungling, I don't think that it was optimal vs playing standard where they would have been able to control both top and bot (Shyv's early laning is terrifying and MF/Sona beats Varus/Leona if Sona doesn't get hit by Zenith Blade).

Also, Yellowstar was amazing on Leona.

[BROseidon]

Zyra is really broken right now.

Oh wait, she's never not been broken >.>

[BROseidon]

It's looking pretty solidly like OMG/SKT/Fnatic/Gambit at this point. I don't think TSM can handle faker or lovelin, and the Europeans have been looking crazy strong.

[BROseidon]

C9 lost 1-2. The third game was kind of a stomp, but to say C9 played below the world level is taking it a bit far.

[BROseidon]

This game.

Is a stomp.

[BROseidon]

It'll be close, but you have to give the edge to Royal because impact and Poohmandu are the two weakest players in the finals

[BROseidon]

XDG is a far better team than like 75+% of people give them credit for.

[BROseidon]

Also, I'm not gonna count EG out yet; they're still adjusting to two new members, and the XDG stomp was largely pick-driven (EG picked shit solo lanes and got wrecked. Shocker)

[BROseidon]

Don't know why teams are playing Yasuo top, though. He gets wrecked by a lot of tops, but has a lot of good match ups mid.

[BROseidon]

Hey, Yasuo is getting LCS play. Why?

Incredible counter. Watch him against Gragas, Gragas can't land a single Q (and if the Yasuo player is fast enough, ult). Statikk Shiv makes him a godlike splitpusher, with 40% crit. Think Tryndamere, but with a better dash.

He completely turns every notion of how ranged plays against melee in lane on its head. Also combos well with Vi. IMHO overrated at the moment, but still a hard counter to things like Gragas mid.

(also I'm not going to argue the fact that Godwater is an amazing support. He simply is. There's no counterpoints, it's like someone saying "SKT1 is overrated" or "Sion top is a good pro pick")

Might have to revise my opinion on Dig. They showed signs of actually having some sort of team strategy and real life. I haven't seen that... since season 2, frankly.

Yasuo has a lot of very strong match ups in midland. Grag isn't the only one.

Also Yasuo+Vi/Malph=free kills

[BROseidon]

Sure. By the same token, he has a lot of pretty bad ones (he doesn't have the same burst as other melee midlane champions, so it seems like melee fighters/assassins like Akali, Riven, and Kha'zix can take him for a ride). Overall I think he's a great counterpick to certain things, but he's not "ban 100% of the time" level that he seems to have developed in EU (mostly because I think teams aren't sure they can handle him yet).

Nintendude seems to have done a better combo by just using Yasuo+Shyvanna, because then you don't have to be playing Malphite (he's only really usable on support, and imho there are better supports)

The Yasuo bans are weird. They shouldn't be happening. I think you're right that it's a "we don't know how to deal with this" sort of thing.

And I think Yasuo+Vi/Shyv/Lulu is more popular than +Malph because, yeah, nobody wants to have to play Malphite because lol Malphite.

[BROseidon]

Shows how much the pros value slight differences in power over comfort picks nowadays.

[BROseidon]

Good. Snoopeh should have retired a year ago, he needs to be gone. He was bar none the worst jungler last split.

Uh...

Snoopeh was statistically the 3rd best jungler last split relative to his team (i.e., if you're gonna ascribe EG's issues to any player, Snoopeh's probably the last one you pick).

[BROseidon]

Here's the article explaining the numbers behind it:

http://gentlemangustaf.files.wordpress. ... aphic5.jpg

[BROseidon]

Also, FANTASY LCS WHO WANTS TO GET A LEAGUE GOING.

[BROseidon]

In the EG games I saw, it seemed like Snoopeh was frequently not on the same page as the rest of his team. Once I remember there was a 4 v 3 or so bot lane at midgame, and he tower dove as Kha'Zix, but no one followed him or reacted, and he just kind of died. It was super salient in part because I'd just watched a C9 game, but it stood out to me.

There's a lot that could be going on there, and it's hard to know w/o listening to their communications what happened. EG definitely had shot-calling issues, and the games where they won were usually ones were Snoopeh could get off a few early ganks for Innox/Pobelter and let those guys mechanics all over the place (seriously, the fact that Pobelter is mechanically as strong as he is while he's been in high school is pretty terrifying). They're shot calling when they're behind is probably the worst in NA, if not in the pro scene in the major regions.

It's sort of bizarre watching it, given that 3/5 members of this team used to play on the team that was known for playing the turbo-long game.

[BROseidon]

It also looks like we'll only be able to have 5 people in a league

[BROseidon]

Okay, screenshot posted by a friend who works at Riot indicates that EU and NA are combined for the purposes of this.

[BROseidon]

Guys, do I run Impaler or Meteos in my jungle slot for next week? Two things to consider:

1) If C9 has their shit together, Meteos does great b/c of how C9 spreads their money.

2) C9 has Curse and LMQ next week (both of whom have been looking really good), while SHC has CW and Gambit (lol)

[BROseidon]

Made the last minute switch.

In my real league, my lineup this week is Kev1n/Impaler/Overpow/Creaton/wewillfailer/Woolite/Mil vs. Balls/Dexter/Bjergsen/Altec/Aphromoo/Selfie/Dig

I think I'll win that, but that's contingent on Millennium having a good week vs. Alliance and Fnatic.

I drafted Mil super hard b/c we drafted during week 1, so Mil was playing well, and they're games always are high scoring, so...

[BROseidon]

I also really wish I had Selfie, since SHC is playing 2 teams with that have bad solo laners :/

[BROseidon]

Why would you have a jungler in flex, unless you got some bullshit like Shook+Amazing or something?

My flex is gonna be Woolite or Pobelter all season. I did end up screwing myself over a bit not taking a mid till round 3/4, but even then I fucked up taking Overpow over Kerp.

[BROseidon]

(I didn't take Kerp b/c I'd gone Kev1n/Creaton for my first 2 picks, and was afraid of overcommitting to Millennium)

[BROseidon]

This game is not going the way I wanted it to go :/

[BROseidon]

Cowtard destroyed my fantasy league this week. :[

I would have won, too, given how well Kevin and Creaton did :/

[BROseidon]

Curse is the blue turtle shell of NA

[BROseidon]

So Immunity didn't win the Oce wildcard spot...

AGA probably won't be making worlds...

[BROseidon]

WOOLITE!

[BROseidon]

I want to root for Gambit b/c they have an Armenian, but it's just so hard when they're so... blah.

[BROseidon]

I'm a Millenium and EG fan.

One of my teams might go to worlds.

[BROseidon]

Although now that Snoopeh is benched, I'm strongly considering joining the Dig bandwagon.

[BROseidon]

My fantasy teams like this game, given how many Mil players I run.

[BROseidon]

Damn, the Wolves ate their Wheaties this week. Holy shit.

[BROseidon]

I've never liked C9 all that much.

They bore me :/

[BROseidon]

Dat team fight, mang.

Every time people say that Cop's not that great, I facepalm. The guy's a beast and has always been a high point for Crs.

[BROseidon]

And Crs gives up 2 turrets because they can't play like they are ahead when they are ahead (the gold difference doesnt matter at this point, and they have a much better scaling comp)

[BROseidon]

Col's team play is really strong, and Crs's is looking fairly weak

[BROseidon]

Nevermind Crs is brilliant and I'm just dumb.

[BROseidon]

And Crs fucks up again.

[BROseidon]

Wtf is this shit

[BROseidon]

If they hard engage into Cop, they're fucked.

[BROseidon]

Westrice/Kez/Bubbadub are doing a really great job applying pressure on Cop to keep him off Robert/Prolly.

[BROseidon]

This is also the longest competitive game in NA history at this point.

I wonder if they've beaten the CLG.EU record.

[BROseidon]

This game.

Is the worst.

Westrice literally doesn't hurt Dominate.

[BROseidon]

Dominate would have won the 1v1 because he'd have more healing.

After like 30 minutes of them bashing each other.

[BROseidon]

Quas needs to find an ult onto Robert.

[BROseidon]

Also, Dominate should have probably built damage, given their team comp.

[BROseidon]

wtf was that.

[BROseidon]

That game made 0 sense.

[BROseidon]

Longest game I could find from CLG.eu was a game vs. M5 that went 74 minutes.

[BROseidon]

There was a pro scene before LCS.

Game times were, on average, a lot longer, because CLG.eu existed. They consistently took games to 50+ minutes because of how absurd their playstyle was, combined with how the season 2 mid meta and jungler meta made the game move a fair bit slower.

[BROseidon]

Reck has a thing for Westrice.

[BROseidon]

I can't see the argument for Robert. All the other 3 are arguable, but not ones where I'd say it's super definitive.

It's not like any of them are Snoopeh.

[BROseidon]

EG outpicked C9, imo. Nunu pick doesn't synergize well with the rest of the team's picks (none of the champs benefit much from bloodboil. Lucian is one of the worst ADCs to put it on). Yasuo doesn't have knockups to work with for his ult other than his own (Thresh mostly peels with his). Only saving grace is that C9 has advantage across all 3 lanes, which might make later team comp issues irrelevant.

[BROseidon]

lol jk Hai's Yasuo is sucking in lane.

[BROseidon]

Oh wow Pobelter.

Wow.

[BROseidon]

Pobelter looking way off today

[BROseidon]

3 huge misplays by Pobelter so far :/

[BROseidon]

Enjoy this classic:



Wicked, Froggen, and Diamond on their signature champs. The bans are also great.

[BROseidon]

Altec is god.

[BROseidon]

Pobelter, not so much...

[BROseidon]

Ryan Choi making an appearance in the Challenger scene.

Lol it's OP.

[BROseidon]

lollllllllllllllllllllllll.

Based on his interviews (which, granted, aren't much), he seems like he'll be fine, regardless of whether he's playing LoL or doing something else. He's one of the more articulate/polished pros (granted, they're all a shitton better than they were at S1 worlds where Elementz was literally the only one who could maintain eye contact and have a conversation).

[BROseidon]

I haven't been watching the Korean scene, but sktt1 seem to have had a hard time adjusting to the game's emphasis on rotations and making plays as a team.

[BROseidon]

Alliance is probably the strongest western team right now.

I want Millenium to make worlds. They're all so good; I just wish they'd stop making mistakes.

[BROseidon]

I'm of the opinion that it was pretty bm of Alliance to do that. Sort of like Darien going Muramana Aatrox.

[BROseidon]

I take it you didn't play sports growing up?

Sportsmanship is a pretty big thing.

[BROseidon]

No, because it demonstrated that he was continuing to try his hardest.

Getting snowball items is explicitly not trying your hardest, because those items are completely non-viable in the competitive scene.

[BROseidon]

Alliance basically said to CW, "We are so much better than you, we can fuck around and do w/e we want and still win."

[BROseidon]

I would argue that Alliance demonstrated that they are not, in fact, non-viable. It's a response to being ahead; it makes sense to buy a snowball item. *shrug*

The only circumstance in which it is acceptable to buy a snowball item is when you are doing well while the rest of your team is sucking.

Otherwise there is always a more optimal buy.

[BROseidon]

Alliance demonstrated that they are so much better than CW that they can fuck around with non-viable builds and still win. That's the bad sportsmanship.

[BROseidon]

CLG has this bizarre aversion for going for drags ever.

[BROseidon]

it's like their biggest weakness as a team.

[BROseidon]

I dont actually get f-is-for-flash, since I normally have to flash more reactively than my other summoner, which means putting it on d is easier b/c it's less mechanically intensive.

[BROseidon]

This game is the best

[BROseidon]

So close...

Also fnatic had a brilliant comp

[BROseidon]

So good

[BROseidon]

Thinkcard and Nien are playing super well. I'm impressed.

It's sad what the community did to Nien, though. Ultimately hurt CLG (Seraph isn't as good as Nien)

[BROseidon]

And baby costs CLG the game there.

Innox played that really well, though.

[BROseidon]

Not alive, Curse won.

I don't think CoL or EG need to be worried, though. I think either of them can beat CST pretty handily.

[BROseidon]

Although I would love to see a 10 team LCS with CST and CA in it.

[BROseidon]

But Rengar so stronk!

[BROseidon]

4-0 THE DREAM

[BROseidon]

C9 first.

Crs 4th.

Nothing to see here people

[BROseidon]

I'm gonna be rooting for Avant Garde to make worlds and win, which is obviously not gonna happen (they are probably the underdogs in both wildcard and then obviously super-underdogs for worlds), but still, I'd love for the wildcard regions to succeed.

Also, Riot needs to expand worlds to 20 teams and just give LA, Brazil, OCE, and Turkey spots.

[BROseidon]

Nobody in NA plays swain, though :/

[BROseidon]

Oh god Quas knows how to play Swain.

I fucking love that guy. His improvement's been really awesome.

[BROseidon]

Erectgymnast is a god

[BROseidon]

Roccat look so terrible today. What the fuck happened...

[BROseidon]

Snoopeh's article almost made me cry.

[BROseidon]

Since most people didn't start watching/playing until s3/s4, most people didn't experience CLG.eu and M5 the way us old-timers did. Instead, they know Snoopeh/Yellowpete/Krepo and to a lesser extent Wickd as a shell of what they once were.

I wonder if Froggen understands how lucky he was to have fallen in with such a great group of guys for his first team. He could have so easily gone the way of so many other talented midlaners who fizzled out after a while b/c of a lack of mentorship, good team chemistry, etc.

[BROseidon]

I wish I had Internet so I could watch the game...

[BROseidon]

I want Crs vs. TSM finals, so C9 can knock LMQ out of worlds.

I really don't want a team with no NA players making it to worlds on an NA spot. Riot needs to implement foreign-player caps for teams like a lot of soccer leagues have.

[BROseidon]

I dunno, I think LMQ have done really well integrating into the NA scene.

I love LMQ as a team, but it bothers me that there will likely be 4 Chinese teams and 2 NA teams at worlds this year.

[BROseidon]

Also, they are doing so well because the rest of the NA scene sucks. If the NA scene stepped up, then LMQ wouldn't be representing them in Worlds.

Also TSM only have two NA players, so yeah...

CLG had 2/5 foreigners too.

Cap foreign players in a region to 2/5. Only LMQ and TSM have issues, then.

[BROseidon]

It prevents every region becoming Korean/Chinese players, since they produce the most top-tier players

[BROseidon]

Curse and C9 are hardly "trash" right now.

[BROseidon]

And TSM is good enough to probably finish 3rd in any group.

[BROseidon]

C9 will make it out of group unless they draw something really rough (china 2 Korea 3 SK, or something along those lines).

Curse will have a decent shot getting out of group if they get a relatively easy group (Sea 2 eu 2 Korea 1 would be really good for them). I think they want to draw Korea 1 so that they can't get Korea 2 or 3.

This is assuming c9 1 Crs 3.

[BROseidon]

I think it's hard to argue that c9 1 LMQ 2 Crs 3 isn't the most likely outcome right now (Crs is always 4th jokes aside)

[BROseidon]

I'm saying they'd want ssb because it means they don't have Edward/alliance and a Korean team.

[BROseidon]

Curse wants to get out of groups in 2nd place.

[BROseidon]

SKTT1 are in shambles right now. They need to either make some major roster changes, or faker should just leave.

[BROseidon]

They would have gone to worlds, and had a relatively weak showing (relatively being the operative word).

They have major issues to deal with right now, like their team actually becomin faker and friends.

[BROseidon]

I think it would be possible (unlikely, but possible) that they draw a group they would end up losing in. Alliance/OMG in the same group as skt would probably be their worst draw (OMG is the strongest non-Korean pool 2 group, and alliance is probably the best western team right now). I also don't think skt would like the alliance matchup (froggen+shook makes fakers life a lot harder, and skt have been looking especially weak bot lane)

[BROseidon]

I hate when roulette goes the way I don't want.

[BROseidon]

NA

[BROseidon]

Crs vs. C9 hype!

[BROseidon]

So much for beating SKT T1 reliably or whatever garbage GreyIce was spouting. SKT gets smoked by Shield.

SKT has a lot of issues now b/c the "Faker and Friends" strategy no longer is good. Also, they lost ground in terms of individual skill relative to the rest of the Korean scene (and as much as people praised the rest of SKTT1 last worlds, they weren't individually that incredible other than Faker. Single-lane leads being able to snowball the game in s3 was great for them).

TSM's playing great right now. LMQ also didn't play the Nunu well that game.

[BROseidon]

"Right now"=end game 1 and all of game 2.

LMQ should ban Nami.

[BROseidon]

wtf with the nunu pick by tsm

[BROseidon]

It's a really good team comp.

[BROseidon]

Holy shit Bjergsen.

[BROseidon]

Oh god WildTurtle whyyyyyy

[BROseidon]

Tank toplaners that don't punish them became meta, and they beat those.

[BROseidon]

Grag.

Before him Renekton/Irelia/Shyvana.

Nidalee still punishes him, but she's banned so much that it lets him come out.

[BROseidon]

That's impressive.

[BROseidon]

CURSE OR DIE

[BROseidon]

Voy is an incredibly aggressive player. He should be k.

[BROseidon]

I've always liked Voy a lot. I think he's been one of the consistently better personalities in the scene.

[BROseidon]

The reverse sweep to maintain the prophecy.

Of course.

[BROseidon]

They needed to take Kha away from NoName. I haven't seen him be nearly this effective on any other champ. XWX's Yas is also really good.

[BROseidon]

NoName's Lee in both games was really bad.

[BROseidon]

In all fairness, Akali's not a completely unviable pick. It's not optimal, but it's also Voy's best champ. Going back onto comfort picks in super high-pressure situations is a good way to help fight nerves (Crs was clearly falling apart after midway through game 3).

It's sort of like the KREPO ANIVIA last year. EG played out of their minds because they picked a bunch of pocket picks and just ignored the meta (Krepo was originally an Anivia player, Snoopeh went on his god-tier Amumu, etc).

[BROseidon]

I don't think that comparison stands. Krepo anivia was in a match about nothing (the last one to resolve a huge tie that would determine the placement for the playoffs for worlds). Nice fanservice, but nothing more. IIRC gambit was the opponent and it was a very high kill game. Both teams had lost the tiebreakers for second place but had to play for 3/4, again, if I'm not mistaken.

so... no, that comparison doesn't stand. Playing an odd champion which can be dealt with easier in with some teamwork may simply not be the best way to deal with pressure and it doesn't get easier at worlds. But that's not even the problem. It's that afterwards, you'll have to listen to those damn polite koreans who just wrecked curse and have them tell you that they really respected curse yadda yadda yadda, with a straight face.

Have you ever played anything competitively ever?

[BROseidon]

Then you'd know that going to what's comfortable/familiar in high-pressure situations can help alleviate pressure.

[BROseidon]

Also, Koreans tend to be pretty bm.

[BROseidon]

It's that afterwards, you'll have to listen to those damn polite koreans who just wrecked curse and have them tell you that they really respected curse yadda yadda yadda, with a straight face.

[BROseidon]

In sc2 like every other Korean was super bm.

[BROseidon]

European Deft is such a talent.

[BROseidon]

Where he will inevitably get reverse-swept.

Also, for anyone interested, full set of teams and which seedings they have. Each group will have 1 team from pool 1, 2 from pool 2, and 1 from pool 3, with no groups having 2 teams from the same region:

Pool 1:

Samsung Galaxy Blue (kr)
Edward Gaming (Ch)
Alliance (Eu)
TSM (NA)

Pool 2:

Taipei Assassins (SEA)
AHQ Gaming (SEA)
Samsung White (Kr)
Najin White Shield (Kr)
Starhorn Royal Club (Ch)
OMG (Ch)
Fnatic (Eu)
C9 (NA)

Pool 3:

SK Gaming (Eu)
LMQ (NA)
Kabum (Br)
Dark Passage (Tur)

[BROseidon]

SGB and SGW are the favorites. I'd put my money on Alliance, TSM, Edward, NJWS, and Fnatic for outside favorites, and C9 and TPA in the group below that.

I don't think any of the pool 3 teams will leave pool. LMQ's internal problems are not doing them any favors, SK is outclassed in individual skill too much, and lol wildcard teams. Dark Passage will have some fun games, though.

[BROseidon]

Theoretical hardest group:

Alliance
SGW
Starhorn Royal Club
LMQ

SGW is the strongest team by far in pool 2. They're getting out of group almost for sure. Since they can't be paired with SGB, a group with them and Alliance would become very, very brutal to try to get out of. SHRC and LMQ are probably the strongest teams that can be slotted in with the pool/region restrictions after that.

[BROseidon]

Easiest group would be:

Edward Gaming
C9
AHQ
Dark Passage

Edward Gaming is the weakest team in pool 1, I think. TSM might actually be weaker, but I have a lot of faith in Loco/Regi to make that not the case. From there, C9 and AHQ are the weakest non-Chinese teams in pool 2 (I think C9 is weaker than Fnatic right now, but that's certainly debatable). Dark Passage has a lot of players who are very strong in the laning phase, but their mid game and endgame play is atrocious because of how much of a lead they normally get in the early game in Turkey. With them no longer severely outclassing other teams in laning phase, I don't think they really have anything going for them.

[BROseidon]

I also think TSM will have to get very unlucky to not get out of group. I don't think any of the pool 3 teams they can draw are particularly threatening, and they can only draw 1 Korean team from pool 2.

[BROseidon]

Both have been looking relatively weak as of late

[BROseidon]

I haven't watched a ton of the games. I've just been looking at the results and watching highlights.

Although I was of the opinion last year that SKTT1 was Faker and friends and getting carried super hard, which turned out to be semi-accurate (I don't think they dropped in skill as much as Faker being unable to snowball everything off the midlane killed their entire play style).

Also, based on what's going on on the EU ranked 5s ladder, don't expect much out of Dark Passage. They've been getting stomped really hard :/

[BROseidon]

General consensus on Reddit right now is:

Any group with SK/LMQ is a group of death. Everyone wants to draw ahq because they're by far the weakest team in pool 2. SK, C9, and LMQ are all significant upset threats to the Samsung teams because of their intelligent play and early aggression.

I am inclined to agree with most of it. Really the SK thing I disagree with; I don't think that freddy/Jesiz/Svenskeren are strong enough to be super-competitive on the world stage, and I don't know how much clever tricks can work around the fact that all three are average to above-average in their positions in EU, which means that they're not going to have fun when every midlaner is Froggen, every top is Kev1n playing at his best every game, and every jungler is either Cyanide or Meteos.

[BROseidon]

It's not that Meteos plays safe, it's that he plays a completely different style compared to jungles like Jankos who look to get very in your face from the onset.

[BROseidon]

Honestly, any group with a Korean team is 3 teams fighting for one spot. Panzer can quote me on that the next time he's not banned. SK and LMQ are the only teams in Group 3 worth fearing.

I think NJWS could get upset if they drew a hard group, but even that would be pretty outside chance.

[BROseidon]

Group A: Samsung White and Edward gaming get out 1 and 2 respectively. No questions, this is 99.9%
Group B: I'll say Royal Club and TSM, but SK and TPA could both put up a fight.
Group C: Blue plus 1. This is going to be a murder fight for the last spot. I will tentatively say Fnatic, from veteran power, and OMG hasn't overwhelmed me, but this is ridiculously stacked. Any one of the three could take a spot.
Group D: A 3 way deathmatch to see which team doesn't go on. I say C9 drops.

This is pretty much spot on, although I'd be less tentative about saying Fnatic and hype up NJWS potentially getting upset b/c I really want that to happen (I'd objectively put it in the 5-10% range)

[BROseidon]

^ The gospel. Although, Group C is fucking crazy, anything could happen there. SSB is pretty much a lock to get out but FNC/OMG/LMQ could be a shitshow (though on paper OMG should win, probably). I'm rooting for FNC though.

OMG's been really weak, recently.

[BROseidon]

Fnatic>OMG

[BROseidon]

I'm in

[BROseidon]

The Janna/Lucian lane is really good when you severely out-mechanics the enemy ADC and support.

Which LiftLift/Aphro do here. By a lot.

[BROseidon]

Aphro is probably still the best western support.

[BROseidon]

HECARIM

[BROseidon]

I THINK I GET WHAT KEANE IS GONNA DO, AND I'M EXCITE.

[BROseidon]

BLOODBATH TIME.

[BROseidon]

CA just can't engage b/c Saint fell too far behind.

[BROseidon]

They realized that Impactful is not LCS-level and beat the shit out of him.

[BROseidon]

TSM's regular season performance is basically irrelevant at this point.

Locodoco's coaching and the lustboy pickup have done a ton in a relatively short amount of time.

[BROseidon]

TSM also have the advantage of having individually top-tier players, unlike C9

[BROseidon]

In every position*

[BROseidon]

Wait jk I forgot turtle.

4/5 still better than 2/5, though.

[BROseidon]

Metros and balls.

Sneaky is not on the level of deft, deft eu, imp, etc, and lemon's strength is what he brings outside of straight up mechanical skill.

[BROseidon]

Even within only western players, c9's bot lane is pretty much high-mid or mid tier

[BROseidon]

Games played? Number of champs played? Which champs are everyone playing?

Also, shot-calling helps your solo queue mmr a lot, probably even with the language barrier.

[BROseidon]

Dyrus almost always goes even, and he's been doing fine vs Ackerman (who is very clearly a world-caliber player)

Amazing is world calibre on lee and Elise

[BROseidon]

Makes sense for C9 to do. They can cut corners on watching tape because they're a crazy smart team (it's what lemon/sneaky/hai bring to the table to make up for lack of raw talent). Fnatic's just been there the longest, I think. They should be doing the more tactical stuff more given that they are all individually super talented.

[BROseidon]

Way to forget Quas.

[BROseidon]

Ackerman and Balls are super good, you even admitted to the latter. Seraph is also arguably super good (and Korean, since you guys value that so much) just not clicking yet with his team and NA.

Yes, so you've listed two people out of the 8 teams in the LCS. Seraph isn't actually that good IMO. Balls & Ackerman are the only two I'd consider great top laners in NA, and the rest are all very lackluster.

I don't dislike Dyrus or Turtle as people, wtf is this shit? I just don't think they're as good as others mechanically (since apparently individual mechanics are how we judge a team).

Quas

[BROseidon]

I don't actually get why people outside the super high level hardcore people always overlook Quas

[BROseidon]

cause he plays for curse.

And is their best player.

[BROseidon]

Lcs is going to 10 teams.

After promos, there's going to be a tourney for the new 2 slots

[BROseidon]

CA and Team8/col are probably getting the two slots.

[BROseidon]

Lolllllllllllll

[BROseidon]

Sheep is leaving coast because of the rhux/goldenglue sackings

[BROseidon]

And they can't import support talent because of the new rules.

And there are no known free agent NA supports that are on sheep's level

[BROseidon]

It's also by residence, not by citizenship.

[BROseidon]

TSM also have the advantage of having individually top-tier players, unlike C9

This is laughable. WildTurtle (as you stated), Amazing, and Dyrus are not anywhere close to world class/top tier.

Metros and balls.

Sneaky is not on the level of deft, deft eu, imp, etc, and lemon's strength is what he brings outside of straight up mechanical skill.

Meteos & Balls are both world class obviously, but Hai/Lemon/Sneaky's synergy comes from the shot calling and rotations/map mechanics. Individual player skill matters less in competitive team games than team synergy. Case in point: Doublelift.

Dyrus almost always goes even, and he's been doing fine vs Ackerman (who is very clearly a world-caliber player)

Amazing is world calibre on lee and Elise

The only thing Dyrus has going for him is his Renekton play. He had shitty games on any other top laner he tried this season (namely, Gragas, Lulu, and Shyvana). Also, saying he's "going even" in lanes versus the trash top laners in NA LCS doesn't really mean much. And it especially doesn't mean much when tons of games don't even have him GO to lane at the start.

Now that I have a computer, I can respond to this in more depth:

1) Wildturtle is not world class. We all can agree on this. Amazing can be world class – he certainly is on Lee, Elise, and probably Kha Zix, but the ease at which you can ban him out is a pretty major weakness. That said, with a lot of high-priority bans and picks outside the jungle right now, Amazing will likely see one of his 2 favorite champs just about every game. Dyrus is world class. He's the Cop of tops, except having Cop in the top lane is actually a good thing.

2) The Hai/Sneaky/Lemon synergy is great, but it's really not enough to stay ahead anymore. TSM beat them for a reason. And what's C9 going to do when they play teams from Eu/Korea that have the same level of team play, but with individually stronger players? I don't think C9 matches up favorably to even Fnatic at this point.

3) Uh, already mentioned, but you forgot his Mundo. Also, trash tops in the NA LCS?

Ackerman was at worlds last year, and got second.
Balls is very clearly a world-class top
Zionspartan is not much weaker than Balls
Seraph is hard to judge b/c CLG doesn't allow him to do anything.
Quas is

the best top in NA by a non-negligible margin

Innox and Westrice are the only tops who are noticeably weak. The top players in NA right now are surprisingly potent, and outskill non-Korea regions for the most part (Only Eu tops that I put on par with the majority of NA ones are Soaz, Wickd, and Kev1n).

[BROseidon]

Yes, so you've listed two people out of the 8 teams in the LCS. Seraph isn't actually that good IMO. Balls & Ackerman are the only two I'd consider great top laners in NA, and the rest are all very lackluster.

I'm gonna be kind of mean here.

The fact that you didn't say Quas substantially weakens your authority.

[BROseidon]

SK - TSM, Royal Club, TPA. Are they the equal of any of these teams? I can't really say they are. They're just flat the weakest team in their group.

SK has this problem where they're like C9 with an even weaker set of players. I don't know how SK does anything when none of their players are going to be strong enough to individually make anything happen, and will likely cede substantially amounts of ground (especially in the solo lanes).

[BROseidon]

I was actually thinking of saying Quas, since he does have some of the best stats in NA. However I think Quas is more of a teamplayer than anything, than a carry player.

Yes, he does the exact thing you want a top to do in the vast majority of metas.

Very few teams use top as an offensive pivot to completely take control of a game. C9 and any team with Zion are the only teams I can think of that have their playmaking on the top-side of the map (if Zion could get on a C9-level team, it would be really scary)

[BROseidon]

Unicorns should win just because of their name.

Their playing Mil?

I want Mil to stay in the LCS. If they can get a real support staff, they have a huge amount of potential.

[BROseidon]

idk if you watched the games today they had no flow together.

the korean superstars looked mediocre at best both getting outplayed by fucking INNOX and pobelter.

you could tell their communication was shit as they've been together only a few weeks. oh and sheep is gone.

but hey they were happy to be there.

In all fairness to Pobelter, the guy is an incredibly talented player. Innox could be if he practiced harder and did what Westrice did (which is try to be Dyrus but suck at it)

[BROseidon]

My picks for bracket game:

SSW
EDG

ahq
DP

TSM
SHRC

TPA
SK

SSB
Fnatic

OMG
LMQ

NJWS
Alliance

C9
Kabum

Quarters:

SSW>SHRC
SSB>Alliance
TSM>EDG
NJWS>Fnatic

Semis:

SSB>SSW
NJWS>TSM

Finals:

SSB>NJWS

[BROseidon]

oh yeah pobelter has a gobshite amount of talent.

hes just yet to have everything 100% click.

hes still crazy young though so the future is(still two years later) way bright.

We'll ignore how well he and his team started doing once they upgraded their 2 weakest positions.

[BROseidon]

Swapping tpa and shrc with the Uzi announcement.

[BROseidon]

Uzi quitting is pretty bad.

[BROseidon]

Apparently there are internal issues