Open 567 - Pick Your POWERRRR!!! - Abandoned

[zMuffinMan]

(1) Muffin's not obvtown according to my reads

thn ur reads suck lolol

[Hershey Kiss]

How could you know it was in anger. The only way I can think of that you'd know is if you are scum with him and he said something out of thread

. . . . .

i'm going to let you think about this for a minute until you understand how little sense this actually makes

How's he know then?

[zMuffinMan]

ok let's make it simple

how exactly do you imagine that played out in the scum QT?

sala: "gosh darn it, i am just so mad that town mislynched today. gosh darn it. i can't put up with a town that plays this badly. i am replacing out because it infuriates me when scum wins games"

or something like that?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

hmmm..

unvote

more tomorrow going to bed now

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

"I expected this person to die, but b/c they didn't this OTHER person is town, so because my main scumread is dissipating I'll just vote a random lurker."

^ That is basically my reasoning on saki vote.

I think me being jittery on elmo is just paranoia.

I think voting regfan because he used role logic to lynch zzzx is stupid. I'm not saying he didn't do it as scum, or that his play says town fully, but assuming what he did is so terrible it makes no sense as town so he MUST be scum, regardless of the rest of his play... Does this look familiar to any of you? Seriously, think this through a bit more. At least come up with some reason not based on him lynching zzzx that regfan would be scum. Eight people thought that reasoning was good enough. They can't ALL be scum.

I think hephaestus's wagon all but disbanding is a little weird...

Oshi. I've just gone and confused myself. I have really BS reasoning for why anen/heph could be part of the scumteam and now it's kinda throwing me off that ucttriton has that as his scumteam for legitimate reasons. Uh. Yeah...

[Regfan]

Muffin re; Post 897 (A) it's actually not "that awful an idea", Hoopla, Faraday and Zito used it in one of the first PYP's and it single handily (Though they were probably good enough to win anyway) won them the game because no one wanted to consider that scum would double up. Think about how many people in this game have already said "If we lynch a scum in the 4's the rest are town", there's lots of scum motivation to follow through with the plan and my issue with Siv is all his posts around his number pick feel awkward and forced. (B) He never said anything about doubling in this thread and likely didn't expect anyone to go look for his past QT. Just promise me if Heph if lips scum Siv gets focused on more.

Regfan, regarding your post at the bottom of the previous page, I'm reading who I think can be scum.

I have you and Anninem and Hephaestus, all for various reasons.

And as I disclaimed to gameplay, I see him as a bro (because I get his frustrations as being a large volume poster with 0 participation otherwise) and I've confirmation biased him as town, but that doesn't mean I think he wouldn't be worthy of a vig shot if one exists in case any of Reg/An/heph is wrong, and I let scum gameplay have a win over town Anatole.

Anninem, so because I didn't vote Heph, it means I am scum? The logic in your eyes is, that because I'm not putting my vote on my scummiest read, that I'm lying about something, and thus we enter LAL (which I saw someone write in this game a while back)

I think heph is scummy, as much as you and Regfan. If you read my meta, I'm willing to spread votes on all my scum reads to get reactions.

It's one basic way of hunting, to spread suspicions amongst all your reads. The whole shake a tree theory.

The problem again is that you haven't commented on my play at all other than pushing ZZZX, if you have a scum read on me or want to place a vote down on me you'd have to at least have to have some opinion on my posts, my replace in reads, my posts since, anything but that's missing from your posts making the vote make no sense. And sure "voting to get reactions" is one thing but voting on a wagon that makes your strongest scum reads wagon weaker doesn't make sense, by voting me you increase the likelihood that Heph lives through the day and if you have a strong scum read on him that's not something you'd want. Your wikis kind of outdated/hard to grab stuff from so can you link me to any games you've replaced into in the past please.

Oshi. I've just gone and confused myself. I have really BS reasoning for why anen/heph could be part of the scumteam and now it's kinda throwing me off that ucttriton has that as his scumteam for legitimate reasons. Uh. Yeah...

What "legitimate reasons" has he stated? His scum read on Anen has two parts 1) Gut (Which is hardly something to agree with) and 2) The ZZZX push (Which in this exact post of yours you state is a stupid reason to suspect someone). Throw your BS reasoning at me btw, want to hear it.

1) Those saying muffin is obvtown, what looks genuine about his place regarding the rolecop claim? To me, it looks like he knew ZZZ was town and wanted town cred.

2) Reg, I have Anen as town too, but I don't see where the ridiculously obvious part comes in. Can you explain that a little? I liked your points about Saki.

1) I think the manner in which Sal claimed was very unlikely to come from scum, I also disagree with his defence of ZZZX being a bad thing, I think if his idea was that he wanted to try and grab town cred he'd have been less likely to instantly replace out after the lynch went through, also found a few of his interactions with me to read as town. As for Muffin himself, his reads and thoughts seem to mirror me in a lot of places (Just not Siv) so it's strengthened my town read there, that said I wouldn't call the slot "obvtown" by any means.

2) The sheer amount of effort Anens put into scumhunting alone is a huge town tell, scum need to seem active sure, but they don't need to devote the mount of time has to researching and thinking through things especially when he's not been under any pressure at all. As for specific posts his reconsidering of Game and reasoning behind it in Post 353 is a massive massive town tell and I don't see things like Post 406, Post 442 (Especially this one, holy christ I'd consider him conftown for this one alone) and Post 810 coming from scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

The BS reasoning is incredibly BS. It was basically a joke. I didn't expect there to be any chance of it having validity, and that uct agrees with the conclusion kinda threw me off.

By legitimate, I mean reasons he believes. Doesn't mean I believe them.

Also decided that regfan sheepaging is totally a good thing to continue with

VOTE: hephaestus

[Flubbernugget]

@Flubber, 855 – why do you think the Vigilante is the most useful role for both factions? I disagree with other points too (a Jailkeeper is just as useful for the town, a Doc is almost useless for the scum). You've left out the following roles: Vengeful, Redirector, Fruit Vendor/Neighbourizer.

Because it's a free kill? I don't know. It's a gut thing. Setup theory is one of my weakest points. Maybe that's why I can in no way see role cop as pro town.

Maybe it was a wk? Look, my thing is that it looked way too informed. And what's with all this "hurr durr hes scum but u dnt vote him" bullshit?

You only get one vote.

Excuse me, what does "wk" mean here? What does the underlined part mean?

Wk is white knight. And I can't vote for Heph and Elmo at the same time.[/quote]

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber, it's not fluff I was trying to get. I'm trying to explain why I think Anatole had no business being lynched. That being said, it is indeed the case I am working off of; to me I saw no reason to lunch that ZZZX slot, and it was a convenient lunch. Role picking, while it CAN flop between alignments, is a worthwhile thing to use to hint in pick your power.

And good news is that I think you have townie reasoning going on there, as in it didn't look like a manufactured answer. Have a town card.

Okay but you still haven't answered my question or explained why Anatole/ZZZX shouldn't be lynched.

[hephaestus]

technically scum wasting a rb/jk on a vig shot isn't a big deal (since vig is hardly the most threatening PR in this setup unless he's hitting scum but even then scum are in a bad position if that's happening so it isn't likely to save them), the only issue is if they got redirector (but even then it's relatively easy to figure out who the redirector is at a mass claim so that's inherently risky in itself)

So essentially Sala went " hm let me pick this useless power role and make it

even more

useless!" That's what you're saying?

your scum read is dumb and not even well thought-out

You didn't even address half of what I said, twice

[hephaestus]

Heph, you said in your post that Regfan's wagon could not have been a scum gambit. Was anyone implying that it *was* a scum gambit?

I find it odd you'd use this to defend Regfan. I'm just trying to see your line of reasoning to give Regfan a town read.

If Regfan is scum what he did would be a gambit by default? People are scum reading him in part for driving the wagon on ZZZ but you're basically following this logic

In theory, it's possible that he tried to get the Rolecop as a scum and he realized that the rolepair had been taken by a townie. In this case he wanted to "out" the Backup so as to get a good target for the Nightkill.

and that's just a ridiculous unnecessary risk for scum, I mean you don't need to drive a mislynch D1 because a town wagon will probably pop up by itself and you don't need to rolefish between a total of two possibilities (the other of which is probably also a power role) and for a role that probably doesn't even have a power yet.

[hephaestus]

You've also said that your townreads weren't too "well-built".

My town reads are well reasoned I just suck at explaining them because they're often based on the way people word things and whether there's a certain flow to their logic, like I don't have to agree with them but their ideas will lead up to a vote rather than that the reasoning seems fabricated to fit whatever vote was most convenient for them. Anyway it's hard to point to and articulate these instances but they aren't baseless

As for me: whom am I buddying?

No one in particular I guess but you just seem really agreeable.. as if you're cautious about starting conflict or calling attention to yourself? I'm sure part of it is just you being a nice person but it feels off to me

[hephaestus]

As I've said being apologetic about your votes also comes into this

VOTE: Gameplay – please, don't take it as an offence.

VOTE: Hephaestus – sorry man,

Sorry friend, it is a must.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZZZX

I know it doesn't mean anything necessarily but it does stand out to me as behaviour I see a lot IRL from (generally new) players who feel guilty when playing as scum

[hephaestus]

VOTE: gameplay

[gameplay506]

Die hepha scum

[hephaestus]

[uctriton00]

why Anatole/ZZZX shouldn't be lynched.

I wasn't here for Day 1, the ship has sailed.

I can use the fact that he flipped town as evidence that he should not have been lynched but that's not going to mean much.

[uctriton00]

I don't like Venrob's play (as his vote on Anatole was really insufficiently used; all he did was say 'tis logical, unless I missed other stuff, but I'm too lazy to really care at the moment again). That's already one strike against the Regfan spot.

Second is Regfan you also were a driving force of getting ZZZX lynched for claiming role cop. I'm still in the mind that Role Cop can be a very good pro-town role, and I think it was fished out, with very poor reasoning.

And the rest is just gut reading, about how I can see from a scum perspective, the manner of tone in which you write.

With both you and Aninem pointing at heph, I do feel like a possible bus is occurring. I know that Aninem is saying that I am a heph partner, which seems like an intentional setup, problem is that the town is winning (we survived one NK) so if that's how scum "want to do it", i.e. trade heph for me, scum is playing a losing game.

Then again, if heph really is town (and is just a VI, which can explain things about his meta), then it'd be a waste.

[uctriton00]

gameplay, is heph being bussed, and is he bussing back against aninem?

[gameplay506]

gameplay, is heph being bussed, and is he bussing back against aninem?

Um ucri I am not reading anything so lol

[gameplay506]

But heph is scum. From what I've read he made me scumread him. Gonna quote some things

[gameplay506]

Null
Aafter - hmm
uctriton - not really leaning one way or the other yet
Aneninen - mild buddying, especially don't like the way he's being apologetic about his votes. but otherwise his play doesn't seem too scummy to me

Scum
Muffin - still in my scum block. I guess reading back I can see Sala just having weird reasoning/playstyle but idk why those things went completely unexamined yesterday. asked for an explanation repeatedly but never got one. don't have a read on muffin individually yet but he hasn't contributed that much and his vote on me was kinda easy tbh.
Flubber - lots of fluff and weird reasoning
gameplay - been going back and forth about him

but he has got to be scum

. also like i said his vote on me while maintaining that i'm town i mean seriously?

Like what does the bolded shit even mean. I have to be scum because? If you had a townread on everyone else I would have seen it but you have 3 (4) other null reads lol. And it is just really scummy how he says it. Reminds me of newb scum.

Also he points fingers at Muffin and Annenien mainly and still doesn't vote them. Pure wtf. In the end he votes me without even mentioning me after his reads post.

[gameplay506]

Also I don't think Ann is scum right now. He is sucky but not scum.

[Flubbernugget]

why Anatole/ZZZX shouldn't be lynched.

I wasn't here for Day 1, the ship has sailed.

I can use the fact that he flipped town as evidence that he should not have been lynched but that's not going to mean much.

So your entire case for town Anatole/ZZZX stems entirely from hindsight bias?

[uctriton00]

So your entire case for town Anatole/ZZZX stems entirely from hindsight bias?

Anatole was town even before he replaced out. His ISO screams genuine anger at the ineptness of townies working with him.