Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[TobyLoby]

Like, use quotes. Chaos has a small iso. I want to see all the quotes of his that you read as obvscum.

[farside22]

I really hate the too scummy to be scum mentality.
I said it once (not here) I will say it a thousand freeking times.
There is a difference between giving reads and making bad comments and lying down doing fucking nothing.
One is bad town, the other is skating by scum.

And which category do you put Chaos in?

The second.

He sure as he'll isn't bleeding town.
If bel flips town who is scum? Who is scum besides bel?

[acryon]

Acyron, explain in your own words the instances where Chaos has looked obvscum to you.

I already said some of this in other posts, but I'll give it a go all in one place.

Post 2, 63, we have the first one that started it all. Strawman via non-existent Mr. Blonde wagon. Also included a blurb about Farside's early play that everyone had already said.
Posts 3, 147, and 4, 185 both promise reads that night and don't deliver. Not scummy necessarily, but worth noting.
Post 5, 236, says how he now sees how his initial vote and reasoning could seem scummy, but then says the wagon on him is pretty bad. Once again promises reads that night and doesn't deliver.
Post 6, 294, says that he now thinks Farside is town, after everyone had pretty much already left that wagon. The rest of this post is the most town of his posts, as he seems to be providing his own ideas against the Skelda wagon and for a NakedJogger one. That being said, several people had mentioned his unoriginal content at this point, so this can easily be written off as trying to avoid looking scummy. Additionally, his reason here for the scum-feel on Jogger is almost exactly the same as the one for AFF later, and they aren't particularly good.
Post 8, 307, says he is waiting on replies from NakedJogger, but then never mentions Jogger or the replies again.
Post 10, 500, was already addressed by me, but again never gives any real details on the defense of Beli or why the wagon was bad. Votes Skelda for similarly weak reasons.
Post 11, 511, I don't buy this scum giving up thing he is saying. When has this ever happened? Maybe after a couple days of heavy railing, but never quickly like this.
Post 12, 568 Vote: AFF. Nothing in-between, and the reasoning isn't nearly enough to warrant a Town-read-->Vote transition.
Post 13, 571, actually isn't terrible.
Post 14, 572, again has a very vague defense of Beli, and a vague explanation of what he thinks scum is up to.
Post 17, 630, now backtracks on his AFF and says in two different places that he might have been mis-reading. This post is waffle city.
Post 18, 631, now backtracks and says he can see how people have scummy vibes on Beli, but does sort of stick to his defense of Beli still. The second part isn't bad.
Post 19, 638, asks scrambles why he thinks he is scum, but he literally just said that he can see how people feel Beli is scum.

[acryon]

I didn't necessarily indicate which are scummy, but pretty much everything I said that isn't followed by a comment about it being ok or good you can assume is bad.

[TobyLoby]

I just want to make this clear and I will come off as a little meanie toby. I am being a meanie, but not being mean spirited.

I asked for obvscum posts by Chaos and you give me like every post man.

[TobyLoby]

including one you called him previously initially townieishie on.

i just feel like you have been arguing a chaos scum along with a chaos town.

[acryon]

I just want to make this clear and I will come off as a little meanie toby. I am being a meanie, but not being mean spirited.

I asked for obvscum posts by Chaos and you give me like every post man.

Maybe that tells you something about his post history.

[acryon]

including one you called him previously initially townieishie on.

i just feel like you have been arguing a chaos scum along with a chaos town.

I have pretty much always been arguing that Chaos's posts are generally scummy, but I am admittedly somewhat torn between, as I said before, scum and newb/inattentive town.

[TobyLoby]

Chaos is way too scummy to be scum.
even now given day 2 he should have at least altered his play a bit, but he's still saying suspicious things. Like hia exchange with me for example.

This.

Like I read this and it's saying, "I think Chaos is town."

Way too scummy to be scum is how way too scummy scum stay alive.

Agreed, but it's also how newb/inattentive town get killed.

I read this as arguing for a Chaos town read.

I really hate the too scummy to be scum mentality.
I said it once (not here) I will say it a thousand freeking times.
There is a difference between giving reads and making bad comments and lying down doing fucking nothing.
One is bad town, the other is skating by scum.

And which category do you put Chaos in?

this is you questioning farside on her obv Chaos scum read.

but before this you've been leaning Chaos scum today.

no sense, man. one of the few people who think chaos is town and argues it comes in and suddenly you're like "iiidddkkkkk."

[acryon]

I am being devil's advocate here. I have been part of towns that lynched obvscum that were actually town enough times to be very cautious of it. Like I said, I'm not 100% sure which side I stand on at the moment, which is why I want to discuss both sides of it.

[acryon]

The "This" was me partially answering the question of yours about Chaos looking obvscum.

[acryon]

I'm not trying to push an agenda; I am trying to have a discussion so I can reconcile the issues I have in my mind regarding Chaos that I'm sure are shared by others as well.

[curiouskarmadog]

Okay let's talk game once more.

Few things.

a) Why do you think a (scum) Chaos voted Skelda the defender over Beli the whatever?
b) What is farside's scum motivation for voting for (scum) Chaos when the wagon was waning?

Baby me through this.

I think beli is town.

From Chaos' view: at the time of Chaos' vote, beli was leading. IF Chaos votes Skelda (another town) it doesnt really matter. At the time it looked like beli was going to be lynched. When Beli (town) flipped town, Chaos can come in day 2 and keep his vote on Skelda (town) and not have to participate more than saying...I still think skelda is town. Plus...if Beli did get the lynch yesterday and flipped town...it was obvious that I was hell bent on the Skelda lynch. it would have been easy sailing for Chaos (Scum).

Farside is playing strangely this game. She is saying things that I wouldnt expect a veteran to say. That aside.

From Farside's view.

Farside (scum) votes CHoas (scum) and just doesnt leave the wagon...for nothing. She does like my case against Skelda (which by the way I still stand by, town flip or not)...she doesnt join the Bel wagon...she keeps her vote pat. Why? She doesnt have her votes on anyone town...it doesnt raise suspicion. If for some odd ball reason Chaos (scum ) does get the a lynch...then she looks great.

so in the night Farside/chaos scum team off someone who wanted to kill chaos (dryfit)..farside can come back and put her vote back on Chaos, without actually doing anything else in the game...and there is less pressure on Chaos. after Bel (town) was so close to getting lynched yesterday, it would now be easier to get him lynched.


I think, Chaos should be the lynch today.

[curiouskarmadog]

EDIT: farside did hammer Skelda

[curiouskarmadog]

actually going back to confirm when chaos voted I did note this.

now to not tunnel vision again, lets play devil's advocate.

if Bel is scum, and chaos is town.

454

Chaoslord54: (2) Snugglyduckling, Farside22
Belisarius: (5) Amy Farrah Fowler, NakedJogger, scrambles, Skelda, acryon
Skelda: (4) Curiouskarmadog , RoyalApe, Belisarius, Dry-fit
acryon: (1) Ranon

Not Voting: Chaoslord54, TobyLoby

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Bel leading Skelda 5/4

Chaos votes Skelda in 500.

5/5 tie.

Acryon changes vote 514

6/4 now skelda

Toby then add to the pile quickly in 516

7/4 Skelda

Then farside with the hammer


curious Toby, given that (Bel=scum) analyzes who looks bad?

I will answer it....Acryon does..and you some what...

lets play shits and giggles for a second though, why a Dry Fit kill? lets say Bel and Acryon was a team together? I know it is WIFOM...but when I play scum, I love it when town chalks up a night kill to WIFOM. When I am scum, and dealing with a silly or inexperienced town, I always kill for a reason......(please insert: "or you could be scum now, saying that to blah blah blah" here). Bel/Acryon have no reason to kill Dry fit, when most likely coming out today he was going after Choas (town) today...that would just make their job harder.


Still Chaos is the way to go today.

[curiouskarmadog]

given the above theory (Bel is scum, maybe on a team with Acryon) this vote count seems off.

Vote Count 2.03

Farside22: (1) NakedJogger
Belisarius: (4) Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon, TobyLoby, scrambles
Curiouskarmadog : (1) Belisarius
Chaoslord54: (2) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Snugglyduckling, Ranon, RoyalApe, Chaoslord54

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-26 16:55:00)

Mod Notes:
Ranon has a few more hours to pick up his prod or I will start looking for a replacement

[curiouskarmadog]

Still Chaos is the way to go today.

I could also go a farside lynch as well.

[curiouskarmadog]

Farside...thoughts?

Farside is playing strangely this game. She is saying things that I wouldnt expect a veteran to say. That aside.

From Farside's view.

Farside (scum) votes CHoas (scum) and just doesnt leave the wagon...for nothing. She does like my case against Skelda (which by the way I still stand by, town flip or not)...she doesnt join the Bel wagon...she keeps her vote pat. Why? She doesnt have her votes on anyone town...it doesnt raise suspicion. If for some odd ball reason Chaos (scum ) does get the a lynch...then she looks great.

so in the night Farside/chaos scum team off someone who wanted to kill chaos (dryfit)..farside can come back and put her vote back on Chaos, without actually doing anything else in the game...and there is less pressure on Chaos. after Bel (town) was so close to getting lynched yesterday, it would now be easier to get him lynched.


I think, Chaos should be the lynch today.

after this post, am I scummier to you?

[farside22]

@ckd: I agreed with you, but said it wasn't a scum tell.....I thought? I'll look back later.

Also just a peeve I typically have people disagree with me and my reasoning. My scum views changes based on what I see happen recently.
Town bickering, scum lurking. Me showing why x is scum and either scum limping on the read or fighting depending on the player. Mostly under the radar players tend to be scum.
Like right now people debating and discussing, me, CKD, Toby and acryon.
As much as I thought acryon might be scum, he is coming across on why he thinks chaos is scummy but why he hesitates. I get that, I see a genuine thought process.
Anyone, besides Amy because I initially town read her, has played either non-commital, lurking or non participant falls under other.

Still Chaos is the way to go today.

I could also go a farside lynch as well.

Because wifom?

[farside22]

Farside...thoughts?

Farside is playing strangely this game. She is saying things that I wouldnt expect a veteran to say. That aside.

From Farside's view.

Farside (scum) votes CHoas (scum) and just doesnt leave the wagon...for nothing. She does like my case against Skelda (which by the way I still stand by, town flip or not)...she doesnt join the Bel wagon...she keeps her vote pat. Why? She doesnt have her votes on anyone town...it doesnt raise suspicion. If for some odd ball reason Chaos (scum ) does get the a lynch...then she looks great.

so in the night Farside/chaos scum team off someone who wanted to kill chaos (dryfit)..farside can come back and put her vote back on Chaos, without actually doing anything else in the game...and there is less pressure on Chaos. after Bel (town) was so close to getting lynched yesterday, it would now be easier to get him lynched.


I think, Chaos should be the lynch today.

after this post, am I scummier to you?

I think your town.
I get why you come to the conclusion, but I'm a tunneler and if someone reads scum I can't shake it till they are lynched. Also as I said I thought I said skelda wasn't scummy......
I think a player killed at night is used for wifom.


This is what I said about skelda.

CKD:

*Silently screams*

I get it. People don't agree, people may have there own view on what I said about requesting replacement at the start. I have seen it exactly twice and both times it was scum.

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

I'm going to disagree.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

[farside22]

Oh and CKD: if you decide to lynch me based on crazy wifom, when I flip town please still lynch chaos.

Sigh.

[TobyLoby]

All right I've thought about it.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Chaos

[TobyLoby]

given the above theory (Bel is scum, maybe on a team with Acryon) this vote count seems off.

Vote Count 2.03

Farside22: (1) NakedJogger
Belisarius: (4) Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon, TobyLoby, scrambles
Curiouskarmadog : (1) Belisarius
Chaoslord54: (2) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Snugglyduckling, Ranon, RoyalApe, Chaoslord54

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-26 16:55:00)

Mod Notes:
Ranon has a few more hours to pick up his prod or I will start looking for a replacement

Can you tell me how this seems off though?

Actually,

UNVOTE:

I need to think about Chaos more. I get what you are saying about Bel/acyron scum. But I can also see killing Dry-fit because they caught a whiff of him being a PR or they wanted to to add the fuel to two wagons. Question is, is Chaos at the level where he is able to realize, make the distinction, and play off the profit in saving a townie to be used as bait for tomorrow vs saving someone who had a town read on him and defended him?

[farside22]

given the above theory (Bel is scum, maybe on a team with Acryon) this vote count seems off.

Vote Count 2.03

Farside22: (1) NakedJogger
Belisarius: (4) Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon, TobyLoby, scrambles
Curiouskarmadog : (1) Belisarius
Chaoslord54: (2) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Snugglyduckling, Ranon, RoyalApe, Chaoslord54

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-26 16:55:00)

Mod Notes:
Ranon has a few more hours to pick up his prod or I will start looking for a replacement

Can you tell me how this seems off though?

Actually,

UNVOTE:

I need to think about Chaos more. I get what you are saying about Bel/acyron scum. But I can also see killing Dry-fit because they caught a whiff of him being a PR or they wanted to to add the fuel to two wagons. Question is, is Chaos at the level where he is able to realize, make the distinction, and play off the profit in saving a townie to be used as bait for tomorrow vs saving someone who had a town read on him and defended him?

The issue with that theory is neither acyron nor bel are voting for chaos.

[acryon]

Bel leading Skelda 5/4

Chaos votes Skelda in 500.

5/5 tie.

Acryon changes vote 514

6/4 now skelda

Toby then add to the pile quickly in 516

7/4 Skelda

Then farside with the hammer


curious Toby, given that (Bel=scum) analyzes who looks bad?

I will answer it....Acryon does..and you some what...

lets play shits and giggles for a second though, why a Dry Fit kill? lets say Bel and Acryon was a team together? I know it is WIFOM...but when I play scum, I love it when town chalks up a night kill to WIFOM. When I am scum, and dealing with a silly or inexperienced town, I always kill for a reason......(please insert: "or you could be scum now, saying that to blah blah blah" here). Bel/Acryon have no reason to kill Dry fit, when most likely coming out today he was going after Choas (town) today...that would just make their job harder.


Still Chaos is the way to go today.

This is interesting I guess, but you of all people should know I was pushing pretty hard for Beli vs. Skelda until I realized it wasn't going to get there. I only switched because I wasn't going to be able to post again before deadline, and I didn't want to risk us no-lynching.