Newbie 1546: Binary Trolls (Game Over!)

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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:32 am

Post by Netherspite »

@Luca Blight


I won't. If you still consider me scum after I've explained you why every point of your case is BS then you're either scum yourself or too ignorant to understand why are you wrong.
I've made tons of points on why Shiro is scum, you've read it (unless you're skimming through the topic which is even worse scum tell) and I'm not going to act like a parrot.

@Shiro


Will you be online at like 1-2 hours before the deadline to hammer me to avoid a no lynch?
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:34 am

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The word used is wrong, I thought it comes from "ignore" but no, it is not :)
What I meant that you just ignore all the points made and insist on your false arguments.
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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:38 am

Post by Luca Blight »

You won't summarise your case against Shiro, for the good of the Town in deciding the correct lynch?

And yet it's my fault if you are lynched and flip Town...

You do realise we are hours away from a lynch and it will be either you or Shiro? Given you scumread Shiro, I'm surprised you aren't pushing this one little bit.
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:39 am

Post by Shiro »

I will be but I really think you are town. It kinda make me hesitant :/
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:42 am

Post by TGGC »

Seems I have to catchup again, because I have been busy at Halloween.


In post 310, JohnnyFarrar wrote:The real doc should not counter claim if he's lying. I'd rather have a living hidden doc than trade him/her for 1 dead scum.

What is that? Teaching your scum partner? You don't seem that inexperienced for this kind of advice.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6343576 - why are you still keeping the _results_ to yourself?

In post 420, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:One scum is in Tool/Johnny purely because stats say that replacements in Newbie games are most likely to be done by scum

Global stats don't say anything about this particular game. Also you would have to compare this against the time players spent in the game. A townie is more like to die early bevcause of the night kills, those townies simply replace more seldom because they have less play time.

In post 440, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
This abc) can be countered by an actual Shiro lynch
So you want me to switch my vote and lynch Shiro and if he flips scum to clear Nether?

In post 444, Netherspite wrote:I can't get rid of the feeling that lynching Shiro is a mistake. However, previous time I allowed myself to ignore the initial suspect and look for more deep and hidden motivations than there really were, it ended up with a mislynch of the wrong guy. So this time I'll stick with my initial suspect. I prefer logic over gut feelings after all.

What kind of twisted logic ist that?

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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:42 am

Post by Luca Blight »

Hold on, he's now asking his main scumread to hammer him?

Brilliant.
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:47 am

Post by Netherspite »

@Luca Blight


He was the only one posting who didn't vote me yet so I'm preparing a hammer at ALMOST the deadline while leaving enough time for me to post what I want to share with town.

Also, if our town seems to be completely not remembering what's going on in the game and we have time until BlueBloodedToffee posts anyway, I'll go back and sum up everything I consider Shiro scum for. However this will take more than a hour so you gotta wait.
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:49 am

Post by Shiro »

I am starting to feel like the only person still townreading Nether. Damn If he flips scum I will feel like a huge idiot.

@Nether you still don't get that I am town and why do you ?

@TGGC
Kinda late to the party aren't we ?
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:15 am

Post by Netherspite »

Here is my entire case on Shiro.
The key points I consider him scum for.

: As noticed by VictorDeAngelo, Shiro jumps into the discussion just in time to block a forming townread on me.

: As stated by Dyslexicon, Shiro's posts give an impression of useless fluff and echoing other stuff. I agreed to that in .

: First time I stated that Shiro does not scumhunt at all.

: As noticed by VictorDeAngelo, Shiro goes after him for lurking while he was V/LA.
Also, in I notice that his second reason for suspecting VictorDeAngelo is that he's most likely partner of scum-Carli. It's just plain stupid to look for some random lurker and call him a partner of someone you suspect as scum instead of going after that one who you list as scum.

: Despite Shiro says before that he'll most likely vote VictorDeAngelo in case he will have to vote, he now states him as null read? (noticed by VictorDeAngelo)

: After I pointed out that he's not scumhunting he performs a weak attempt to scumhunt. Perfectly illustrates my statement that he tries to adjust his play to look less scummy. (noticed by VictorDeAngelo)

: My first case on Shiro. Main points are: a) he does not scumhunt; b) he's being defensive; c) he's raging and being really concerned about being
speed
lynched when he has no votes on him and only my slight suspicion.

and : Further explaining on my first case on him.

: Shiro puts TGGC at L-1 right after he just replaced in and didn't even have a chance to post anything! He also did it exactly after BlueBloodedToffee pointed out that Shiro still didn't vote and asked him why.

===

The points I list as noticed by someone else are the points I completely agree with and thus I include them in my case.

As you can see,
Luca Blight
, my case has way more points made by myself than yours on me. This is what genuinely made case looks like.
I don't believe genuine case can consist mostly of points made by others. It means you're just trying to justify your vote rather than really believe in it.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:26 am

Post by Netherspite »

@Shiro
, what's your current read on Luca Blight? Why?
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:27 am

Post by Luca Blight »

Even just skimming your case, there is a lot of "as noticed by - ", so once again you are criticising me for something you are doing yourself; using points made by others.

My case does not consist of points mostly made by others (that counts as a lie in your book), and I could go more in-depth in my case for you if there is a need - which there isn't at the moment as you are the main wagon right now on L-1, and therefore it is you, if you are town, that needs to properly justify your reasons for voting the wagon your on, so as to convince others onto it. It really is quite simple. Before this post you had pretty much admitted defeat, even asking your own scumread to hammer you to avoid a no-lynch, so there is clearly no real need for me to go any more in-depth at this time, is there?

With that said, I will look further into your case soon after I've had something to eat.
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:31 am

Post by Netherspite »

5 out of 10 points noticed by others is way more strong case than your own.

Also, considering your second paragraph, you're perfectly happy with your vote choice and you don't care if it will be mislynch or not. You aren't trying to find someone else who would look scummy, you even don't care about your previous scum reads.
It makes sense only from scum PoV because all they want is to mislynch someone while not looking suspicious for that.
I have to disappoint you: no, you didn't justify your vote good enough to not look scummy after a mislynch.
Try better.
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:35 am

Post by Netherspite »

I'm AFK for a hour or so to have a dinner.
Hope BlueBloodedToffee will post before I'll be back.
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:36 am

Post by Luca Blight »

In post 711, Netherspite wrote:5 out of 10 points noticed by others is way more strong case than your own.

Also, considering your second paragraph, you're perfectly happy with your vote choice and you don't care if it will be mislynch or not. You aren't trying to find someone else who would look scummy, you even don't care about your previous scum reads.
It makes sense only from scum PoV because all they want is to mislynch someone while not looking suspicious for that.
I have to disappoint you: no, you didn't justify your vote good enough to not look scummy after a mislynch.
Try better.


You really are full of shit, hypocrisy and lies, aren't you?

If I didn't care about avoiding a mislynch why am I still having this conversation? Why would I request your case on Shiro (which you were more than reluctant to provide)?

I'm willing to consider a Shiro lynch as I've said a million time and am giving you ample opportunity to convince me this is the right line to go down. Stop lying, stop misrepping and stop being hypocritical because it is tiresome, pointless, deflects away from the important issue on hand and only makes yourself look bad.
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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:23 am

Post by Netherspite »

Because you want to justify your vote for townie?

I was reluctant to play a parrot. I've posted my case on him and summarized it multiple times already. Now I repeated it once again.
If you're so willing to consider his lynch then why are you "skimming" the case by your own words? Because I admit that some of points mentioned are noticed by someone else? At least I'm being fair here, while your case consisted mostly of points made of others and you didn't mention it before I pointed out.
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Post Post #715 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:17 am

Post by Shiro »

Hmmm things went silent and we only have 9 hours left
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Post Post #716 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Netherspite »

If BlueBloodedToffee will not post in a hour I'll post all the information I have since it'll be too late to make another decision for the town anyway.

@Shiro


Can't understand why did you ignore my last question to you.
Or did you miss it?
Please, provide an answer :)
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Post Post #717 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:33 am

Post by Shiro »

I missed it in between posts. I just checked cause I was like wtf ? which question.

His post do seem geniune tbh and he has some point about giving you lot of benefit of the doubt by going in depth into the conversation with you so my townie read hasn't changed though I obviously don't agree with his conclusion since I think you are town
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Post Post #718 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:35 am

Post by Netherspite »

Do you agree with his whole thought process and only disagree on the conclusion?
Or are you unable to follow him on some specific part of thought process?
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Post Post #719 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:45 am

Post by Shiro »

Can you tell us what you think Blue was doing cause tbh it doesn't seem like he is going to post today

Eh he makes some valid points but I don't think it is enough to make you as scum over the town read I had so far.
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Post Post #720 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:47 am

Post by Netherspite »

Why are you not arguing with him over this subject then?
When I see that someone is making wrong conclusions I try to explain him that he's wrong.
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Post Post #721 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:48 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 700, Netherspite wrote:
Will you be online at like 1-2 hours before the deadline to hammer me to avoid a no lynch?

More try-hard to look town.

What exactly are you expecting from me Nether?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
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Post Post #722 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:51 am

Post by Shiro »

Because those conclusions are a matter of opinion.

He sees your transparecy and openess as possibly fake and scummy while I don't. There isn't much to argue about there.
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Post Post #723 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:52 am

Post by Netherspite »

So I was wrong.
That's sad. I really thought you're as good player as you claimed.

I'll post all the information now.
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Post Post #724 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:31 am

Post by Netherspite »

So, since after my flip you'll know for sure that everything I'm saying is coming from townie perspective, I'll give you all the information I believe will help you in winning this.

First of all, some VCA (yes, I like it).

The one who I believe to be genuinely voting me as a townie who is just wrong is
Toolenduso
.
His reasoning was at least built by himself, he tried to scumhunt (he failed by choosing the wrong one but it's a townie mistake). Don't suspect him for that.

Next, I believe that there is at least one scum in my wagon at this point.
If Shiro is town, then most likely there is only one scum in my wagon.
If he's scum, then most likely his partner is in my wagon.

So who we have in my wagon at the moment?

TGGC
for BS reason:
It was more like OMGUS vote, but I can understand it after I forced him to claim

BlueBloodedToffee
for completely insane reason.
I can't find out whether he is genuinely that retarded or just scum who is faking retarded play to appear "too scummy to be scum"

Luca Blight

His vote makes more sense from a scum perspective.
He cared enough to fake a large case on me so you won't suspect him tomorrow;
And from the townie perspective he makes completely no sense: he says that he is considering changing his vote yet ignoring all the points I make, he is asking for my case on Shiro yet admittedly completely ignores it.

=============

If we try to analyze Shiro's wagon, we also can notice few interesting things:
1. His wagon is really slow to build. And it's obvious that a wagon on scum will be more hard to build than a wagon on a townie. Simply because there is at least someone else in the game who knows that it's his teammate and he will try hard to get him not lynched. He won't do it loud obviously but even using only hidden and subtle phrases here and there he'll achieve much. He can also use chainsaw defense to save his partner from a lynch.
2. His wagon consists of townies only. Why? Because my wagon was way more appealing to join for the scum as it was way more easier to get me lynched. If you still don't see it check how it went and tell me if it was hard to lynch me. I doubt it. So VictorDeAngelo and JohnnyFarrar joined his wagon instead of mine. I don't see any reason for them to do so if they're scum and they know I'm town.
To get more towncred? Really? They didn't need it. May be VictorDeAngelo needed it but he didn't look like someone who is trying to gain some towncred.

=============

Lets now discuss most possible scumteams and who are the best candidates for the D2 lynch after you'll see my flip.

The most likely scumteam at the moment is :
Luca Blight
+
Shiro
. (Please remember this moment as I am likely the first one in this game who caught the scumteam! :) )
This team perfectly fits with the game.
Look for yourself: Shiro is townreading Luca Blight all the way no matter what. He does not suspect him at any point for anything.
Luca Blight in return mentions few things that bother him about Shiro, several times he says that he's ready to switch his vote to Shiro but he never goes further.
It looks perfectly like he's faking suspicion towards his scumpartner while not really going to vote him no matter what.

Individually, Shiro is the most scummy player here and some of you agree on that.
I've already posted my case on him. I'd like to add to that: he is preparing a PERFECT excuse for the moment when I'll flip town. He's townreading me and hating the fact he should hammer me. He states it multiple times. He does not even agree to lynch me to save himself. He is so afraid of showing himself survivalistic after I pointed out he is in the beginning of the game. He was adjusting his play to appear more towny for the whole game.
As of Luca Blight, I admit I was wrong about him for the whole game. He succeeded in hiding his real intentions from town for the whole D1 up to the last discussion where he shown his real face.
Misrepresenting me, lying and calling it a misinterpretation, asking for a arguments and a case and ignoring them altogether, it's scummy enough to accuse him on his own.

Since we should have a Cop since we didn't have a counterclaim, I ask our Cop of a favor.
Please, check Luca Blight at night. Pretty please. I'm really sure it will yield us a confirmed scum lynched tomorrow.

=========

Another possible scumteam is
BlueBloodedToffee
+
Shiro
. Why? Because BlueBloodedToffee's tactic to fake being completely insane worked and no one seriously considers him scum at this moment.
So it was worth it to try.
If he is scum then yes, he's really a good player. He managed to fool everyone including me up to this point.
However, since there is no single logical explanation for his actions, I think the only possible explanation is him being the scum trying to do everything to make himself "too scummy to be scum".

=========

=========

Don't hurry yet with hammer, I think we still can discuss possible scumteams.
I won't be able to talk tomorrow so better if we discuss it now while I still can.

I'll also post what I thought on the BlueBloodedToffee intentions (the only possible case where he would make sense)
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