Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[davesaz]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

This whole angle is meh. I don't see anything wrong with trusting your townreads.

There were two parts to my post. See my reply above.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

V O T E C O U N T

2 . 1 0

[/b]

(2)

Netherspite -

Bulbazak, Malakittens

(L-3)

(2)

davesaz -

T S O, Xayzeck

(L-3)

(1)

T S O -

davesaz

(L-4)

(1)

acryon -

Aquanim

(L-4)

(3)

Not Voting — Shinobi, acryon, Netherspite

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch

Mod Notes;

• acryon is V/LA until 29/12
  
• Bulbazak is V/LA until 29/12
  
• Netherspite is V/LA until 06/01

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-31 23:20:00)

[/b]

[acryon]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, Dave; there are people in this game who want to lynch TSO and those who don't, and I doubt you'll shift anyone from one camp to the other.

In other news,
VOTE: Acryon
I think I like this more than Nether today.

I still think the play today is a combination of Lynch/Vig/Role-check/JK on me/TSO/Nether/Shinobi. I think it is so much much better than us not discussing it, which it seems no one is interested in doing for some reason. This way, we clear/kill literally every person with suspicion on them. I obviously prefer not being lynched, and I would think me bringing up a plan that would almost 100% make me lose if I am scum would be enough to make me one of the non-lethal targets, but either way I think this plan needs to happen. Otherwise we risk double-stacking or leaving it up to the bias of the PRs.

Assuming we're not PR's ...?

I think there is a better chance of it working out than it not. Either way, it seems silly to just play this one-dimensionally when we have 3 PRs vs 1 scum. We should at least be considering and discussing some deeper strategies, even if mine has holes.

[T S O]

There are enough PR's that they'll close it out - they have last night's results too.

[davesaz]

We could do something like, you know, lynch scum. That thing you're not even trying to do!

[T S O]

My vote is very clearly on you, dave.

[Aquanim]

My vote is very clearly on you, dave.

Do you even understand the concept of trying to persuade other people to vote for your preferred lynch?

[T S O]

-Avoiding Pasch wagon

Why is this a reason for being scum? Just summarise it.

-Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)

My push on you ...wasn't particularly halfhearted, it reflected the fact I was busy as exams were on during at that time. I made that information public - you know that - why are you pushing it as a scumtell again?

-General lack of scum hunting otherwise

Generalised bull like this will get you nowhere but the noose - I am sure you would like to tell me that you have been scumhunting night and day while I lie in the scum parlour with hookers and wine, but it's simply not true.

1. Distancing, of course. How hard can that be to figure out?

2. And after exams finished? You could have been digging up all the scummy things I've done and trying to convince others. Unless, of course, you can't find anything I've done that was actually scummy.

3. I'm pretty sure you're not doing

that

. But are you even looking at what other people have been doing? Suppose it's not me, who else might be scum? Compare how I have 3 people who might be scum, I'm digging at the one I think is more likely to be scum but also pursuing other angles. And I have reasons to town read the people I'm not interested in lynching today, and they're more than just meta. You're trying to say I'm not scum hunting?

Let's break this down.

1. Being wrong on Paschendale is not a scumtell. You will get nowhere trying to push that it is. I was wrong on Pasch. I hadn't read the game - I had every right to be wrong. Even if I -had- read the game, I might still have thought he was town. I didn't claim I was 100% sure of Pasch being town - I asked for a Pasch case - I didn't get one.

Fact: this is not a scumtell - this is a accusation which is completely independent of my alignment.

2. Your bullshit attack on me -is- a scumtell, actually - but while we're here, let's discuss Paschendale backing you to the hilt for no reason.

Spoiler: Pasch protecting dave

I don't understand the votes on Davesaz. Someone wanna talk about that and make a solid case there?

What really has me concerned is that I have yet to see any good explanation of the Dave wagon, but every time I ask for clarification of the case on him, it's simply ignored.

Why Dave? I've found the cases on him so far very thin. What would you cite as evidence against him?

Anyone else find it fishy that Acryon is v/la until exactly after the deadline is over? He's basically parked on this unfounded Dave wagon that no one will defend.

He tried to build a scumread on me out of RVS joking, he never supported his vote on Dave (a case that no one has actually explained yet.

Dave is the best wagon today. When I pushed him, there was a general non-response. That makes me feel better about doing so.

Can you please explain why? I really have no idea why anyone suspects him.

The only ones I absolutely wouldn't lynch are Nether, TSO, and possibly Dave because he looks like the target of scum attacks since still nobody will explain why they're scumreading him. He's null at worst.

3. This is a joke - the

only

thing you have done today is lurk - push my mislynch - lurk - push my mislynch. Your "interactions" with other people go "Oh, hey, please ignore your meta read on TSO and vote him because ???". I mean, if this thing you're quoting is what you expect to convince people with, your scumplay needs a lot of work.

[T S O]

Then you have that absolute goon Aquanim randomly sniping at me while not really taking many stances against me after he realised his grudge lynch isn't convincing anyone. He is townreading you because ...he's never actually told us why he's townreading you, actually, but never mind that.

[T S O]

Bulba, Mala, Xayz, can you guys PLEASE be more active because this game is so easy to close out but I can't do it with you three prod dodging.

[Aquanim]

Well, my proposed plan would be very simple:

lynch Acryon, shoot Nether, jk and rolecop can do whatever they damn well please

It has the advantages that Nether's already claimed so there's no chance of hitting a PR, not directing the JK means that scum (if not JKd themselves) cannot easily avoid shooting the protected person, and having somebody be both JKd and rolecop'd isn't a disaster.

[Aquanim]

Then you have that absolute goon Aquanim randomly sniping at me while not really taking many stances against me after he realised his grudge lynch isn't convincing anyone. He is townreading you because ...he's never actually told us why he's townreading you, actually, but never mind that.

Well, no... my case is convincing four people. Not my fault you can't count. For the record that's three more than your case on me.

And no, I've never gone into much depth about my townread on dave. I don't see the point unless I think he's actually in danger of getting lynched.

[T S O]

So, you won't justify your townread on dave. Got it.

[Aquanim]

So, you won't justify your townread on dave. Got it.

That's actually not what I said, work on your reading comprehension.

I said I'd justify it if I thought he was in actual danger of getting lynched.

[Aquanim]

Do you see how annoying it is TSO when somebody just flings random insults at you with every post they make?

Maybe you should consider not doing that in the future.

[T S O]

No, your "not until he gets lynched" is a ploy where you don't actually have to do it until it doesn't matter.

[Aquanim]

No, your "not until he gets lynched" is a ploy where you don't actually have to do it until it doesn't matter.

I'm trying not to insult you this time... but this just makes no sense. It's not what I said at all.

If I think dave is likely to be lynched today, and the arguments presented why that should be so do not convince me, I intend to explain why he's a less likely lynch to flip scum than the person I'd prefer to lynch (probably Acryon at this point). In that case it would be my expectation to be able to move the lynch to somewhere I liked it, hence it would "matter".

[T S O]

Why do you feel you're above giving reads when asked for them?

[Aquanim]

Why do you feel you're above giving reads when asked for them?

Because I'm town, everyone but you knows it, and I'd much prefer to see what other people have to say without having my opinion to sheep.

[Aquanim]

That being said, in other circumstances this game I've quite happily given reads when asked. I'm sure you can find some instances in my ISO.

[T S O]

You believe you're town, therefore you don't have to do town things.

This is a really great attitude - I think I'll adopt it.

[Aquanim]

You believe you're town, therefore you don't have to do town things.

This is a really great attitude - I think I'll adopt it.

nonono. EVERYONE ELSE believes I'm town. There's a huge, huge distinction.

I'd discourage you from this, but the fact is I'm not sure how you could do less town things than you're doing already, so I don't really give a damn.

I'm done talking with someone who deliberately misinterprets every post I make. Anyone else want to have a chat?

[davesaz]

TSO: I'm doing other things besides pushing you. Are you even considering anyone other than me?

My scum reads are TSO

and Nether, and I gave an intent to hammer Nether if it turned out to be necessary

. Was more comment needed?
I don't believe that the self vote and subsequent townie noises make Nether town. In fact I've fairly recently seen someone else act very similarly and flip as the last scum.

So what happened to nether wagon.

I for one gave it time to see if anyone else would be revealed as more scummy,

but would be perfectly comfortable with going ahead with lynching Nether if it came to that

. Christmas seems to have killed activity so we didn't really gain anything yet.

We could almost no-lynch and let the PRs work it out, if it weren't likely they would choose the same target or the vig might kill one of the other PRs. But I'd rather get the information from a lynch to help them decide what to do.

[davesaz]

And this post is lurking? Really??

Time is running out to get something going.

I'd consider TSO and Acryon to be good choices.
If scum isn't one of them, then we still had a pretty good case on Nether and I think we're possibly letting him off too easy.
Beyond that we get into reasonably good town reads but a lot of people have faded more than I'd expect from just Christmas down time.

Mala and Shinobi are somewhat borderline. They act townish but it's easy to see scum maybe getting by at that level.
To get to scum being Aquanim or Bulba they'd need to be playing for an epic gambit to get town cred in endgame, against a really powerful town.

[T S O]

I want this guy, but I will hammer this other guy.

Is this really the peak of you interacting people? That you'll hammer? Wow!