Mini 1634 - English Premier League Mafia (Game over)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It certainly would be a good fake-claim.

Let's take the claim out of the situation.

If somebody can tell me how Ollie is scummier, than say Yiley, or Elk, or death, or Guyett.

Seriously, how is this guy at the TOP of anybodies scum-read list?

I'll have a look when I catch up in a few hours time Ollie.

PEdit - Why has he claimed? It's 6 to lynch, no?

[Ollie]

I'd be open to hammering

Noted.

It's definitely not the perfect scum claim btw. It generally results in a policy lynch. What other role would I be as Southampon? Have you thought about that?

Any thoughts on what I produced from my PM? I take it you think that's a lie too? Would you like to analyze that for us?

Does anyone else have an opinion on my role reveal? A ridiculous lack of actual in depth discussion going on about it.

There is such a thing as fake claims. Mods give them out all the time.

humour me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think this is accurate

Ollie (4)-

BROseidon

, 4burner,

theelkspeaks

,

deathfisaro

Whiskers (1)-

, Yiley

Yiley (2)-

BlueBloodedToffee, Ollie

deathfisaro (1)-

Guyett

Guyett (1)-

massive

Not voting (2)-

Red Arrow, Whiskers

L oh fucking L at this wagon.

Bolded could all be scum. Doubtful that all 3 scum are on this wagon though...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Guyett, why you not voting Yiley?

[Ollie]

I think this is accurate

Ollie (4)-

BROseidon

, 4burner,

theelkspeaks

,

deathfisaro

Whiskers (1)-

, Yiley

Yiley (2)-

BlueBloodedToffee, Ollie

deathfisaro (1)-

Guyett

Guyett (1)-

massive

Not voting (2)-

Red Arrow, Whiskers

L oh fucking L at this wagon.

Bolded could all be scum. Doubtful that all 3 scum are on this wagon though...

People just rock up, stick a vote on me, then bugger off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ollie does not need to be lynched toDay, for pretty obvious reasons.

He can be sorted at a later date.

4burner, vote Yiley please.

[Guyett]

VOTE: Yiley

Can we discuss death?

[Mario Balotelli]

Votecount 2.5:

Ollie (4)-

BROseidon, 4burner, theelkspeaks, deathfisaro

Yiley (3)-

BlueBloodedToffee, Ollie, Guyett

Whiskers (1)-

Yiley

Guyett (1)-

massive

Not voting (2)-

Red Arrow, Whiskers,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is in 4 days, at 2pm GMT on Saturday 10th January 2015

[Guyett]

I think this is accurate

Ollie (4)-

BROseidon

, 4burner,

theelkspeaks

,

deathfisaro

Whiskers (1)-

, Yiley

Yiley (2)-

BlueBloodedToffee, Ollie

deathfisaro (1)-

Guyett

Guyett (1)-

massive

Not voting (2)-

Red Arrow, Whiskers

L oh fucking L at this wagon.

Bolded could all be scum. Doubtful that all 3 scum are on this wagon though...

my money is on 2 being there

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would agree with that.

IMO, it's elk > death > BRO

[Whiskers]

Whiskers

, read 4burner's posts here as if he's talking about you...

@Ollie

- Comes in swinging, takes a tone I really don't like, and then tries to game a Mod on a site he's only pretty just freshly joined? Unless he knows them from offsite or something similar. Basically I'm thinking scum due to Whiskers/Liverpool/Mod stuff ala Guyett. And never actually voted Whiskers despite agreeing with the anti-whiskers stuff from memory. Votes BRO over very little, comparatively.

Comes in swinging... so what? That's not alignment indicative of anyone. Tone again means nothing, he doesn't know me. Guyett does, he's not seen anything in these things. Trying to outguess the mod isn't alignment indicative either. Last part is flat out wrong as you know. So this is fluff/wrong. From that....

He doesn't know you, so tone is one of the few things he has to go one-- same goes for the rest of us. The tone you took was very queen-ish. It's not alignment indicative, but it sets people on edge. Prepares them to distrust you.

The fact that Guyett "doesn't see it", doesn't help you, but we'll get onto that later-- more importantly, players other than Guyett think there's something up.

Trying to outguess the mod isn't alignment indicative in and of itself, but it's generally regarded as bad play, not very useful, filler. Not only were trying to "outguess the mod", but the fact that you were trying to guess how Nexus, specifically, would behave, without knowing his tendencies, made it even less likely you'd be able to do it with any amount of accuracy. Even if you guess correctly by random chance, there's no way to use it since you don't have good logic getting there.

The point is that it was a waste of time.

But ultimately, that's what this first read of 4burner's comes down to: you spent some time playing a game of "outguess the mod" which you could not win, and you're haughty without having deserved the right.

So I've got my scumteam as Guyett/Ollie/Yiley, which I'm scarily confident in for a D2 read. But everyone else is basically town bar a few nulls, so let's see how this shakes out.

He's scarily confident that the 3 of us are a scum team, not just one of us, the 3 of us. Early on day 2.

Exaggeration exists in all players. Obviously if one of you flips town, he's not going to hold onto the idea that you're all scum together. Why is this much worse than being confident of just

one

scumread you have?
But sure, you can say this is confirmation bias or posturing or whatever. Nobody else is worried about it though. Not even me.

Plus,

you keep talking to Guyett

. So. I don't know what you want from me.

This is the worst point ever. To not scum read me for conversing with other players would be a start.

This is an easy one: he was talking about how much you complained for being linked to Guyett.

You complained a ton, said it was a huuuuge stretch, but then kept talking to Guyett, asking her questions or trying to get her to agree with you. No matter what you say, you were buddying up. It wouldn't have been such a big deal, except that you

made

it a big deal.

Oooh look so not only does 4burner have his scum team locked in but his lynch order is now decided...

Right, that'll do. VOTE: Ollie because you started bad, then just got worse. Guyett can wait til tomorrow. Yiley the day after.

This doesn't have to do with anything. It's just him saying you moved up on his to-lynch list. The rest is nothing more than reminding us that he has other reads.

How am I supposed to reason with this guy?

Reason about what? Trying to get him to change his read? Address his concerns, but also appear rational and logical. Make sense when you're making an attack or accusation or case, and take note when someone challenges it or tells you you're wrong-- accept criticism and learn. Don't freak out when someone votes you, or makes a link between you and Guyett.

And ultimately, go without, rather than within. Making a good attack makes you look better than putting up a good defence. It's risky, it takes alertness and a show of good thinking. It implies willingness to take responsibility for being wrong. It shows you're selfless and always trying to scumhunt and help town, even if you may be in danger yourself. It erases any sign of a guilty conscience, demonstrating your confidence that, because you're town, you'll never be lynched.

You'd pick all of this up in a newbie game. You're sort of already expected to understand this by now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Guyett, what was that self-voting about?

[Guyett]

Guyett, what was that self-voting about?

frustration

[BlueBloodedToffee]

With what?

You had 2 whole votes on you and you were hardly being hounded.

Whiskers frustration, I could understand.

Ollie frustration, I could understand.

Guyett frustration, makes little sense.

[Whiskers]

I need to catch up thoroughly but I have skimmed.

Can someone clarify who is on Ollie wagon please because Ollie is town as fuck.

Still waiting for you to clarify why you think Ollie is town at all. Guyett's explanation is "offsite meta," which I would think shouldn't sit well with you, but...?

I think this is accurate

Ollie (4)-

BROseidon

, 4burner,

theelkspeaks

,

deathfisaro

Whiskers (1)-

, Yiley

Yiley (2)-

BlueBloodedToffee, Ollie

deathfisaro (1)-

Guyett

Guyett (1)-

massive

Not voting (2)-

Red Arrow, Whiskers

L oh fucking L at this wagon.

Bolded could all be scum. Doubtful that all 3 scum are on this wagon though...

Also, why BRO scum? Why death scum? Like, I'm not just asking to be contrary, BRO is a townread and I don't get a lot of trouble out of death. What's your problem with 'em?

Ollie does not need to be lynched toDay, for pretty obvious reasons.

He can be sorted at a later date.

4burner, vote Yiley please.

They're still not obvious.
How many people do we get to "Sort at a later date"?

And, not that I want to put him into the running ATM-- but what about Elk? What does

everybody

think about elk?

[Guyett]

With what?

You had 2 whole votes on you and you were hardly being hounded.

Whiskers frustration, I could understand.

Ollie frustration, I could understand.

Guyett frustration, makes little sense.

I get a little weird like that every now and again. Self voting isn't alignment indicative for me.
I guess if it was anything it was frustration at the lack of interest towards the Liverpool thing which I have dropped entirely now and people acting stupid towards Ollie.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Still waiting for you to clarify why you think Ollie is town at all. Guyett's explanation is "offsite meta," which I would think shouldn't sit well with you, but...?

I don't care much for Guyett's reasoning for town-reading Ollie. If I was scum-reading Ollie, there would be a problem.

I'll clarify it when I catch up but it's pretty much down to his scum-hunting. You can now add the scuminess of his wagon for why he is town as well.

Also, why BRO scum? Why death scum? Like, I'm not just asking to be contrary, BRO is a townread and I don't get a lot of trouble out of death. What's your problem with 'em?

BRO!scum is currently gut. I'll try to go into more detail during catch-up because I hate 'gut' reasoning for reads this far into a game.

Death!scum I have stated. You don't 'get trouble out of death'. What does that even mean?

They're still not obvious.
How many people do we get to "Sort at a later date"?

And, not that I want to put him into the running ATM-- but what about Elk? What does

everybody

think about elk?

Well, I'm not saying why if it isn't that blatantly obvious. Ollie's alignment becomes pretty apparent at some point in the game, so...yeah, let's not lynch him toDay.

I could lynch Elk.

[Guyett]

I'm happy to lynch from within {Yiley, Bro, Death, Elk}

[BlueBloodedToffee]

^^^^^ is a fucking good lynch pool.

[Guyett]

I will not lynch within {Ollie, BBT, RA, 4Burners}

Whiskers and massive are kinda null

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Whiskers is town.

Massive is probably town (still hesitant on this one)

RA is still scummy but is by no means my top scum-read any more.

[Red Arrow]

I'd be open to hammering

Noted.

It's definitely not the perfect scum claim btw. It generally results in a policy lynch. What other role would I be as Southampon? Have you thought about that?

Any thoughts on what I produced from my PM? I take it you think that's a lie too? Would you like to analyze that for us?

Does anyone else have an opinion on my role reveal? A ridiculous lack of actual in depth discussion going on about it.

There is such a thing as fake claims. Mods give them out all the time.

humour me.

you really need me to humour you on the fact a lot of mods give out fake claims to scum :/

Sorry, I don't even know how to respond to that right now lol.

[deathfisaro]

Death

, so why the fuck are you asking for a modkill if you think it's unlikely? Pointless post then & you could have asked the mod via PM. The slot is also statistically more likely to be town so you're scumming the place up with this mod kill bull shit. Why are you objecting to me saying there should be a replacement so badly?

Why ask for it? Because it's unlikely to happen unless people ask for it. Have you never filed any sort of appeal? Do you not understand how criminals are brought to justice by trials and stuff?
If I get raped, the rapist isn't going to suddenly get arrested if I just sit at home, be merry and drink tea. I have to report the crime (which I did) and have to appeal for a penalty (which I did). If you missed it here's a recap.

Elk's last post in this thread was on 25th. Made 1 post in 9 days. Meanwhile on 28th night, 29th morning, 30th afternoon and night, 31st morning and afternoon he posted on other threads on this site.

Now convince me how a town would AFK and eat prods to help his team win the game, even when he had the time and effort to log on the site and post in other games? You can't, because that's plain scummy.
And yet you freaked out at me bringing up the idea of modkill. You said scums should do everything they can to protect their buddy from getting modkilled and you're the only one trying one's best doing it.
"Statistically more likely to be town"? EVERY SINGLE PLAYER is statistically more likely to be town until town loses the game, your logic would disable any player from voting. You keep digging your grave deeper and I have zero idea how some people read you as town.
I find the slot scummy, I'd gladly let him modkilled so we don't waste a lynch on him and therefore possibly kill 2 scums in 1 day.

[deathfisaro]

Why Yiley over elk? 2 day active lurking deserves to die over 9 day active lurking?

The difference is that elk wasn't "active lurking."
And it pisses me right the hell off that elk just waltzs back in here after all this time to dump a single, solitary, second post on this game, instead of being replaced. He should have been replaced long ago. But no, he shouldn't be modkilled. He should be replaced with a competent player-- this town is rather lacking in them, at the moment.

Okay I guess I didn't know the definition of active lurking. I thought it meant you're active on site but aren't posting. I thought my definition was right because what Ollie said below.

So to clarify... His last post on the site was in this thread, he hasn't been posting anywhere else. He hasn't posted in here in almost 2 days but he's been on & off the site at least twice in that time. He is actively lurking like fuck.

I was in a game where we had a no lynch. I rounded up 4 players exhibiting this behaviour of staying away from the thread but being on the forum & 3 of them were scum.

He means you're not posting but are active on site. And even has a 75% catch rate to back up his definition of "active lurking". So I thought he knew what he was talking about.

Semantics aside (the only important part about that "active lurking" jibberish is that Ollie and I have the same definition of it), the main reason for me voting Ollie is in his contradictions between his strategy and his action.
Using the Ollie quote from 405, Yiley shouldn't be the first one to eat the lynch but elk.
Because

elk hasn't posted in here in 9 days but he's been on & off the site at least 6 times in that time. He is actively lurking like fuck

.
And yet Ollie goes for Yiley instead. Logic much?

[Whiskers]

Usually modkills end the day, death.

Of your list, Guyett and BBT, I'm down for lynching Yiley and Elk. But elk is a policy lynch a much as anything.

preedit

Has

Elk been on the site 6 times over the course of those nine days? I wasn't aware of that.

To my knowledge, Elk had been completely absent from the game, from the site, all of it, for the nine days. That's not active lurking. If Elk has been active elsewhere during that time, then sure, he's active lurking.