people always expect creative bussing as scum in this setup, but their optimal play is to try and get to 4:6 and just ram home the last two mislynches with brute force. i don't know if i should be announcing whether that is scum's optimal play, but they
8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER
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Hoopla
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my first action in this town as cement is to announce that this game hinges on the success of our first two lynches. this is a poorly designed setup where the better you start doing as town, the more you are rewarded for it (a successful lynch of scum not only gives us more information, but also an additional mislynch), and the worse you are doing as town, the harder it is (ie; it is virtually impossible to win this game in a 4:5 lylo as it requires every townie to be right and willing to follow a lylo voting structure. 4:6 is also really hard).
people always expect creative bussing as scum in this setup, but their optimal play is to try and get to 4:6 and just ram home the last two mislynches with brute force. i don't know if i should be announcing whether that is scum's optimal play, but theyprobablyknow this already, so we should play in the way optimal to scum's optimal strategy -- and that requires discussing it. with this playerlist, i see a lot of 1v1 page-clogging and people vying for town leadership (we already have talks of town blocs). this worries me because the fallout of these fights always serve as a catalyst for people to just vote whoever else, and if we're close to deadline at all, we will scramble and people like greyice and ABR will try and bully the town into their decision. We need to aim for the D1 lynch to occur a couple days out from deadline to be safe. And we also need to talk about alternate voting schemes for 4:5 and 4:6 days, because we can't win it normally (the town has to essentially nail the whole team). The importance of the D1 and D2 lynch is critical to our success -- so lets try and work together.-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Yeah, I'm fine with that, because I know why. Come on here, this ain't either of our first rodeos, and I actually have a track record of figuring out your logic, even if I got lynched for it (for some truly terrible play as well, to be fair) in the first team mafia.
But if our house lands on someone who isn't the wicked witch, it may be a very nice house, but it's not very effective. You really sure Silver is the choice of the day? Because let me tell you, I am not.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Oh god don't TELL them optimal play.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Hoopla
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Also I consider this game lost if it hits 6:4 or 5:4 with 90% certainty. My goal here is a day 1 scum lynch, with day 2 as backup (6 of 7 is slightly easier than 7 of 8).
That's why I need decent wagons, not this half baked "lets lynch silverwolf" bullshit.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Hoopla
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In post 277, GreyICE wrote:Oh god don't TELL them optimal play.
you're underestimating the collective knowledge of the scumteam. four people in this team and then a crew of teammates with eyes on the game. scum already know how to play optimally.-
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Hoopla
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In post 276, GreyICE wrote:But if our house lands on someone who isn't the wicked witch, it may be a very nice house, but it's not very effective. You really sure Silver is the choice of the day? Because let me tell you, I am not.
i haven't figured out my vote yet. just wanted to be on a wagon while i get going.-
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ZZZX Survivor
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In post 267, Metal Sonic wrote:you mean you havent asked him yet????????
he was on site chat like half an hour ago
town points on you dropped a little bit.....
I understood what he ment. I doubted you will get what he meant. so i wanted him to explain it on yo level (as indicated frm my post)
also its about his posts and stance "(his paranoia on ABR and approach on him is genuine is that's really enough to put him as strong townread.)" as the tldr versionImplosion: I see ZZZX wasredacted. For shame, people. For shame.
The Bulge: ZZZX is ZZZX
Get to know a ZZZX: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=58733-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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In post 280, Hoopla wrote:In post 277, GreyICE wrote:Oh god don't TELL them optimal play.
you're underestimating the collective knowledge of the scumteam. four people in this team and then a crew of teammates with eyes on the game. scum already know how to play optimally.
But not from a graphic discussion. You can have all the discussions you want in your little caves, but when it becomes gestalt wisdom then it's much easier to internalize. People still panic and follow the flow, I've watched scum bus when they actually had equal numbers to the town because of the force of panic.
Regardless, is what is. I'd have preferred to find scum and THEN trust in my ability to direct the house, but here we are. Terms have changed. We can play by your rules. Although I still like my vote.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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ZZZX Survivor
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In post 273, GreyICE wrote:Sotty wagon is all town, Kagami/Silver wagon is all town, MS wagon is... okay, why is that actually still a fucking thing? Remove my wgeurts town read, that wagon is a dumpster fire.
Do you believe someone alignment is different because his voting was not what you agree on?? I find that mostly a town point as scum doesnt like to stand out on those kind of stuff.Implosion: I see ZZZX wasredacted. For shame, people. For shame.
The Bulge: ZZZX is ZZZX
Get to know a ZZZX: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=58733-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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In post 284, ZZZX wrote:In post 273, GreyICE wrote:Sotty wagon is all town, Kagami/Silver wagon is all town, MS wagon is... okay, why is that actually still a fucking thing? Remove my wgeurts town read, that wagon is a dumpster fire.
Do you believe someone alignment is different because his voting was not what you agree on?? I find that mostly a town point as scum doesnt like to stand out on those kind of stuff.
It's not about "disagreeing" it's about how they're voting.
For instance, Silver is a wagon I don't agree with, but the people on it are town. Look at their reasoning.
Look at the votes on MS please:
In post 37, Empire wrote:Vote: Metal Sonic
In post 18, Metal Sonic wrote:i looked at this playerlist and i decided to not put any tokens lol
Playerlists were revealed after token submissions and alignments were assigned. So how did you come to assign your tokens after the fact?
(Nacho, you better be town here and make this way easier for me.)
In post 61, Seraphim wrote:I'm here.
Vote: Metal Sonic
If I can make this happen, it will save me me so many headaches.
In post 139, wgeurts wrote:This bugged me so much I've decided to respond to it:
If you didn't pick this up from the posts I made I'll explain this again:MetalSonic wrote:1. GreyICE and ABR performed exactly the same actions, apart from voting different people and having a different name. Why exactly did wgeurts phrase his post in such a manner: "We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." a general sweeping statement "all info is relevant" while not addressing the personal aspects of why he voted ABR.
I don't know ICE however I've played 4+ games with ABR as scum and town. We've had a tendancy to clash in nearly all of these games which led eventually to the mis-lynch of him or me. I wanted to avoid this again so I decided to provoke him into playing out of his usual style. I'm hoping that doing so will lead to play that will reveal his alignment clearly to me. It was a reaction test you can say and two: GreyICE seemed to be making a joke, knowing ABR I however wasn't sure. If you read I also stated it was fine if he just explained it was joke RVS reasoning. In a nightless all info counts, I'm also wanting an explanation for Nacho's vote.
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Now:
VOTE: MetalSonic
I do believe I also stated to ZZZX scum would pounce on the stuff you've pounced on as a sort of slayers gambit. You've attempted to falsely frame me, as expected from scum.
That's a fucking dumpster fire, ZZZX. Like, actual fucking dumpster fire.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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ZZZX Survivor
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i just felt wge vs metal was full of paranoai. but i see your point... I am not sure tbh.Implosion: I see ZZZX wasredacted. For shame, people. For shame.
The Bulge: ZZZX is ZZZX
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Hoopla
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In post 279, GreyICE wrote:Also I consider this game lost if it hits 6:4 or 5:4 with 90% certainty. My goal here is a day 1 scum lynch, with day 2 as backup (6 of 7 is slightly easier than 7 of 8).
I agree with this. I haven't thought much about the right way to play those days to give us something better than a 10% chance, but off the top of my head: if the D1 and D2 lynch are town, the D2 lynchee chooses the lynch for D3 (or picks their towniest player and they pick during D3 and everyone sheeps). The scum-bloc is too powerful on these days. An honest gamble from a lynched townie is better than playing the setup normally and letting scum manipulate D3 and D4.-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Essentially turn the game into a vengeful? I'm down with that. It's got to be better than trying to put together an all-town wagon.
Fine, if there's 3 or more scum alive and we need every single townie on a wagon to get a scum lynch, I will vote for whoever the last lynched player said, no matter how stupid I believe it is, unless it involves self-voting in LyLo.
Lets just not go there though.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Hoopla
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In post 288, GreyICE wrote:Essentially turn the game into a vengeful? I'm down with that. It's got to be better than trying to put together an all-town wagon.
The skillset of all townies required to orchestrate a lynch against scum playing optimally on D3/4 is just way too unrealistic for them to all have. Turning it into a vengeful after D2 is surely better odds, because there is guaranteed no scum manipulation. We're gonna sacrifice accuracy compared to a good scumhunter's choices, but there is too high a chance that they're scum to blind trust a good player. Let the guaranteed innocent person choose, even if it seems stupid.-
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Hoopla
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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In post 289, Hoopla wrote:In post 288, GreyICE wrote:Essentially turn the game into a vengeful? I'm down with that. It's got to be better than trying to put together an all-town wagon.
The skillset of all townies required to orchestrate a lynch against scum playing optimally on D3/4 is just way too unrealistic for them to all have. Turning it into a vengeful after D2 is surely better odds, because there is guaranteed no scum manipulation. We're gonna sacrifice accuracy compared to a good scumhunter's choices, but there is too high a chance that they're scum to blind trust a good player. Let the guaranteed innocent person choose, even if it seems stupid.
That actually was me seriously agreeing with you. If we whiff on day 1 AND day 2 then it'll be impossible for day 3/4 to be scum lynches without a plan like this.
Of course my real plan is not to whiff on day 1+2, but as a backup, I like your plan.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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wgeurts They/ThemPokédexThey/Them
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Instead of doing this sentence by sentence I'm going to explain why each section of MS's posts on me is false and scum.
Spoiler: The Shred"i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts" -Davsto
"let's have 2 rules against wgeurts" -DeathRowKitty
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Kagami Jack of All Trades
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Seraphim she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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Seraphim she/herJack of All Tradesshe/her
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wgeurts They/ThemPokédex
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wgeurts They/ThemPokédexThey/Them
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In post 295, Seraphim wrote:I feel much more confident about MS-town though.
Why?"i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts" -Davsto
"let's have 2 rules against wgeurts" -DeathRowKitty
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EddieFenix Goon
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In post 261, GreyICE wrote:
Eddie is either not reading what I'm saying or pretending not to. He's used that to ignore the rest of the game.
The assumption train just keeps on a chuggin. This is your 2nd post that tries to look town. Your post on Sotty reeks of attempted salesmanship. MS hit the nail on the head in commenting on it.
I came into the game with 2 reads to make sure to keep an eye on, MS and ZZZX. MS's wagon is so obviously bad that any idiot with half a brain could see this.
In post 258, GreyICE wrote:In post 234, EddieFenix wrote:In post 231, GreyICE wrote:You didn't bother to read past the first line of the post dude. That's just sad. That's just completely and utterly sad.
It's like bargain basement benmage.
I read that entire post, and you're assuming things. That's what's sad. Completely and utterly sad.
You read the entire post, and decided the most important thing was the question at the fronf, and that tokens were worth ignoring despitehard evidencethey weren't?
What did you think of Sotty's inconsistencies? Anything? Do you have any thoughts at all on it? Because as far as I can tell all you're doing is revving a giant chainsaw.
I think Sotty's "inconsistencies," as you so put them, are under my microscope and I'm keeping a very keen eye on them as we move forward. If you're going to say I'm "chainsaw defending" them, you better bring a case to the table then that.
In post 289, Hoopla wrote:In post 288, GreyICE wrote:Essentially turn the game into a vengeful? I'm down with that. It's got to be better than trying to put together an all-town wagon.
The skillset of all townies required to orchestrate a lynch against scum playing optimally on D3/4 is just way too unrealistic for them to all have. Turning it into a vengeful after D2 is surely better odds, because there is guaranteed no scum manipulation. We're gonna sacrifice accuracy compared to a good scumhunter's choices, but there is too high a chance that they're scum to blind trust a good player. Let the guaranteed innocent person choose, even if it seems stupid.
Let's focus on TODAY. We're not going to try and plan for something like this when there's plenty of time to discuss everything. Even then, there's no way in hell I'd follow along with this plan. No chance in hell.-
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wgeurts They/ThemPokédexThey/Them
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Obviously an unjustified "OMGUS", he fails to refute any of my defenses and has now resorted to ignoring me and just saying I'm scum.In post 153, Metal Sonic wrote:There is no Metal Sonic wagon, there is only 'wgeurts OMGUS'. He's caught scum who is trying his best to retaliate right now. I don't think he knows who he's up against.
Don't know why ser and zar are voting him, but they are on the right wagon.In post 269, Metal Sonic wrote:sadly, some people cant see the obvious
In post 255, quadz08 wrote:Metal Sonic (3) - Zar, Seraphim, wgeurts
thats why they need shepherds like us to guide them to the light
or, they could be scum."i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts" -Davsto
"let's have 2 rules against wgeurts" -DeathRowKitty
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