Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum,

especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

Right, me asking after whether your teammates have actually been legitimately scumhunting and trying to figure out the game instead of telling you who you should pretend they want you to push is me just trying to justify a vote on you.

I don't think they are even reading the game, man!

I get snippets of "I think X" and that's about it.

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum,

especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

no quil. I was town reading you on d1. they all said, on d1, before shit got all fucked ip, that I was wrong about you and should look closer. so I did. and I agreed with them, all things I have posted in the thread. the case on you is mine.

since d1, their involvement has gone to nil.

The biggest issue with quilford is that

I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum

, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened. I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

THEY were not the ones who convinced me, Mina.

quil did.

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and

my

whole team

thinks he's scum, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

never lied about my team mates involvement.

they were never hands on with this game.

it was always small comments.

I knew anti/TTH were scum reading quil. never knew why.

sthar is the only so far who has gotten back to it.

And of course the second quotes all come after Mina, Patrick and I started putting pressure on her to explain why her team thought I was scum.

I love the attempt to make a false contradiction out of this. None of this is a lie.

Anti, TTH and Sthar all went "HEY QUIL IS SCUM, YOU SHOULD POKE THAT SHIT" and so I did. I've said multiple times now that the reasoning I've given is mine. I'm not sure what lie you think is in there when it's all the truth.

[Quilford]

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

Uh, it seems pretty unambiguous to me. Where is the ambiguity.

Not to mention that if it was an ambiguous miswording she would have said so on one of the other two times I pulled her up on it. So don't try and invent some bullshit now.

--

ETL, the bolded bits contradict each other. Unambiguously so in the second pair of quotes.

[Metal Sonic]

Yep. I didn't. I think you'll find that I did not really bother to read many people in depth that Day, because I was arguing with ETL and attempting to lynch BPC/Brian.

Most certainly not. Thanks for finding a convincing excuse to IGNORE the SOLE SLOT YOU HAD AS A NULL READ who just REPLACED IN THE GAME and FLOODING THE GAME WITH CONTENT TO ANALYSE

Let's take a look at what the others have done:

Spoiler: conftown Mina

There's no need to be unpleasant.

Now it's less a question than a comment--my question would have been "where are all the town reads in your catch-up?" But I wanted to see what you'd come up with when you weren't tailoring your posts toward appeasing me. Apparently, your one town read is Quilford. Can you restate why?

I liked serra's replace-out, actually, and frankly wish your contributions blinded me with towniness given you make some decent observations and you're one of the only people playing the game. But I feel as though your catch-up overall was scum-motivated. The vast majority of your observations were:
1) pointing out small reasons of varying quality to call people scummy.
2) complaining about how the one person we've already lynched, Alchemist21, was apparently more town than every single other player in the game except for Quilford. (I've always thought the "chastising players for the lynch" scumtell was overrated, but you're so attuned to every piece of blinding innocence from our top suspect D1, and yet can't see similar signs coming from most living players?)

Most people's reads tend to be more holistic and evolving, as opposed to "here are a bunch of posts justifying why I could vote out 2/3 of the game." (You say, "I could vote this person just so they wouldn't be in LYLO" or "I could be persuaded to vote this person" multiple times as reactions to single posts.) The closest thing to a big-picture read is Patrick, but he's not in your lynchpool not because he's town, but because he hasn't "done anything scummy."

And with all these reasons, your vote is on someone essentially for lurking?

And I almost regret posting this, because it's giving people a case to latch onto instead of doing any of their own scumhunting.

Spoiler: JF's alleged partner

Espy says (don't worry guys this absence has been site wide) and that irks me. Also makes it clear he's doing ISOs in alphabetical order. If small scumreads keep piling up I'm going to vote him just for the pleasure of not dealing with him in a potential lylo situation.

this whole thing is fuckin terrible yo

first of all... what exactly irks you about having a site-wide absence that can be verified? is it the fact that it's not something you can pin on me to push a mislynch?

second, ISOs in alphabetical order... are scummy... how...? that's how people are fucking listed in the drop down box. it's how i've done it for years. suddenly it's a scum point? man.. scraping the bottom of the barrel here, aren't you?

third.... justifying a scum read on "i dont want them in lylo" is as shitty a cop out as it gets.

VOTE: johnnywhatever

Spoiler: Patrick

JohnnyFarrar: I appreciate that you've contributed more so far than serra did for the entire game. Can you talk me through why you're able to make that many scathing comments about my play and somehow have me as the second to bottom on your list? You call me lame and boring several times, you don't like my attack on Alchemist, you think my metadive on him was useless, you don't mind ETLs vote on me, you think I'm posting in a way that doesn't tell you anything about my alignment. You don't seem to mind being abrasive, so why be political about this?

Spoiler: your "top scumread"

Bah.

VOTE: serrapaladin

Clarify your read on serra at this point.

I'm gonna vote Serra too, can we just talk about shit for a bit though?

Who do you think partner would be if Serra is scum Mina?

You too.

Disappointed that was the one kill that didn't make Patrick confirmed town.

Where is this coming from? Did you actually expect Mara not to flip tracker there?

Shos said quil unvoted to prevent frustration hammers and hammered later on the same page.

Yes. I wanted a response from ETL, she was threatening to hammer out of frustration, so I unvoted. Then she answered me, so I hammered (because Mina had voted in the meantime).

I feel like you skipped part of BB's issue here. There was time left in the day and players had said they'd like to make catch-up posts. Why not wait for that at all?

BPC uses a lot of exclamation points and Quil is cutesy, and I want to look into their metas to see if these two things are as pronounced in their town games because psychology blah blah blah

have you done anything on this?

BPC's unhappiness with Mina's townread on my slot seems weird to me, given that BPC wasn't particularly advocating for my scuminess. Simple disdain for others' townreads reads as scum to me.

Why does this read as scum to you?

(I've started skimming old BPC ISOs. Given my extremely limited sample size so far, if there's an alignment-relevant pattern beyond "his tone always sounds scummy to me!", I haven't seen it yet, although I haven't got to the part of his scum games where he's supposed to start lurking.)

How did this searching go? Also, I don't know how you don't notice my lurking in all games here

BPC is so hard to read guys

Thank you

My problem with BPC is lurking in a sense but it's more for the opportunistic time he lurked toward the end of the last day phase. Showing up and being all "yeah I'm down for a Alch lynch" and then taking no initiative beyond that looks like "I'm here but want no accountability" to me.

Yes, I've been lurking. There are a number of personal reasons for it but never-the-less, my feelings towards the lynch yesterday as it was happening was pretty much meh sure. I had a few bits where I pointed out things I took as scummy from alchemist and had been fine with the lynch for the just of the day. If I were in the game more at that point, I would have been fine hammering.

(leaving aside I don't think BPC and I make much sense as a scumteam, anyway).

Yes, this. I don't understand where patrick is coming from with that and that;s about the first time this game he's said something questionable. I'm chalking it up to half assed read coming back but I would like to hear more on this.

Spoiler: bbmolla

I'm honestly pretty okay with either a BPC/Johnny lynch

The Johnny read is a lot because I dislike his read on me because it reads as "Look at all this stuff that indicates this player is a bad player, so he must be scum"

I actually might lean BPC a bit more, because BPC seems kind of robotic.

Example of when I called your bad play scummy?

7) JF, read on BBmolla. Explanation for why it's not a town read on BBmolla. Go!

My read is "This man ain't said anything useful, and now that he was so wrong on day one everyone's ok with him barely posting anything on day 2 because he's sad or something." I've seen nothing even close to content come from him (much less anything townie), and unlike Patrick he doesn't even seem to be playing to win.

Why is he town?

Did I say that was scummy at any point during that? Or are you one if those people who thinks null tells don't exist?

I don't find it fathomable that anyone can have a null read on me at this point

like wtf

Well start contributing and I'll start reading you like a grown up

"I post a lot which means I contribute a lot. There's no way that someone could be conflicted between thinking I'm scum who faked being super confident on a shitty town wagon and using that as an excuse to stop posting when he flipped townie and thinking I'm just town who's clearly either too busy or too bad to be playing this game." - BBmolla 2015

is being an ass hole a town tell for him or something

Spoiler: fantastic "demoralised town" quilford

a GRAND TOTAL OF FOUR

I don't particularly like the way Espy switches from talking directly to people to talking in general at everyone here.

Why don't you like it?

Given that Mina had just accused BPC of 'posting a lot like scum', what more support do you envision ETL needing as scum before beginning to push BPC?

My vote ain't anywhere.

I am in full on waiting mode, yeah. I want stuff from BPC.

Where's your head Quil?

Oh yeah, I'm not answering this right now (or any other questions) because it's 5:50 am and I only woke up coz I needed to pee.

GOODNIGHT

so most certainly "I WAS TOO BUSY SORTING ETL AND BPC TO BOTHER ANALYSING AND GETTING A TOWNREAD ON A FUCKING NULLSLOT WHICH HAD 9 POSTS"

from those 9 posts, MINA HIT BULLS-EYE SCUM

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UTTERLY SHITE VCA

Right. So "utterly shite" it caught at least one scum? Are you kidding me right now?

I have used VCA successfully since like... forever. Since Faith plus One, hydraing with mastin, where she taught me how to use it effectively and to recognize when leaning on it could be disastrous.

You continually trying to discredit the analysis because it points not only to JOHNNY but to YOU is fucking incredibly scummy.

p-edit: posts.

[Metal Sonic]

What happened to 'that's a nasty contradiction, you have my attention'?

well, yeah I got on a computer before you gave me an answer

you never really gave me an answer. just a bunch of quotes which I had to make out the meaning myself.

[Quilford]

so most certainly "I WAS TOO BUSY SORTING ETL AND BPC TO BOTHER ANALYSING AND GETTING A TOWNREAD ON A FUCKING NULLSLOT WHICH HAD 9 POSTS"

from those 9 posts, MINA HIT BULLS-EYE SCUM

Cool. I don't know if you've noticed, but the username attached to all the posts with the catbug avatar is not "Mina", and therefore you shouldn't be expecting it to find scummy the same things that Mina is finding scummy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, the bolded bits contradict each other. Unambiguously so in the second pair of quotes.

lol except they don't? Again, and again, and again, I am going to continue to repeat to you what has always been true, my impression of your play at the end of the day made me think you were scum. It was and always has been my reasoning. What exactly is the contradiction? Nothing has changed.

p-edit more posts...

[Metal Sonic]

honestly, i don't believe vca either

but carry on

[Quilford]

well, yeah I got on a computer before you gave me an answer

What answer? The contradiction is a contradiction is a contradiction. In the earlier post, she says that her teammates especially scumread me for my actions around the Johnny lynch. In the later post, she says that her teammates' involvement dropped to nil past Day 1. They cannot be true both at once.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I haven't been making any points about what ETL's team has or has not been doing

Now who is lying?

I seem to recall and ultimatum thrown my way regarding my team mates behavior, and not mine.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

[Metal Sonic]

Cool. I don't know if you've noticed, but the username attached to all the posts with the catbug avatar is not "Mina", and therefore you shouldn't be expecting it to find scummy the same things that Mina is finding scummy.

FANTASTIC MISINTEPRETATION

what i'm saying

that through serra's meagre 9 posts

it was ENOUGH for MINA TO CATCH SERRA SCUM


I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT QUILFORD TOWN WOULD AVOID ANALYSING AND GETTING A READ ON JOHNNY DURING THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES:

1) Johnny's posts violate ALL of quilford's maxims that he had been holding others by for the entirety of the game
2) mina, molla, etl shined headlights onto the shiny thing that is JF's catchup posts
3) A REPLACEMENT JUST CAME INTO A SLOT WHICH WAS EITHER SCUMMY AS FUCK OR NULL AS FUCK with 9 posts. CERTAINLY SOME ANALYSIS OF HIS ENTRY POSTS WERE IN ORDER.

and we get these superior analysis from "scumhunting is #1 for determining alignment" quilford

Spoiler: these are fantastic reasons to townread someone

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

Johnny for town imo

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Not to mention that if it was an ambiguous miswording she would have said so on one of the other two times I pulled her up on it. So don't try and invent some bullshit now.

Ho-ly shit.

I HAVE.

EVERY TIME.

[Quilford]

I haven't been making any points about what ETL's team has or has not been doing

:eek:

Now who is lying?

I seem to recall and ultimatum thrown my way regarding my team mates behavior, and not mine.

Yeah, the second sentence in that quote, which you have conveniently left out, puts the first one in context.

[Metal Sonic]

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

exactly. you tacked it on there becausse it was your reasoning. the "my teammates were scumreading quil" was a separate clause.

no thanks to your shitty wording, quil has some ammo to shoot you with.

thank you savior metal sonic

[Metal Sonic]

Not to mention that if it was an ambiguous miswording she would have said so on one of the other two times I pulled her up on it. So don't try and invent some bullshit now.

Ho-ly shit.

I HAVE.

EVERY TIME.

why dont you help yourself help me by requoting those posts to shut quilford up

im busy looking for more pertinent things

[EspeciallyTheLies]

honestly, i don't believe vca either

but carry on

yeah that's fine, but i do and i like it and it works for me so i will use it. i'm not an havent asked anyone to take it and use it. i've only ever offered it to show my thought process.

the act of discrediting it as quil has done is only an attempt to sweep the conclusions under the rug.

p-edit: ok.

[Quilford]

What you are saying is 'why didn't you vote Johnny for his bad catchup if you voted Alchemist for his bad cases, because they were both summary instead of analysis?'

What I am saying is that this is because Alchemist flipped town, so I wasn't inclined to lynch people for posting things that were summary instead of analysis.

You are somehow understanding that as me saying I dropped the entire concept of scumhunting entirely.

You're still doing this MS

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no thanks to your shitty wording, quil has some ammo to shoot you with.

yes but my shitty wording is not a new thing. it is very well known and documented and easily looked-up evidence that i hae a hard time explaining myself.

like, my thoughts are a jumble and i type them as they come out. this was something quil tried to pin me with on D1, and accused me of being scum for NOT perfecting my posts, to which my argument was ... why the fuck would i do that? i'm not concerned with whether i sound scummy or not, i'm concerned with getting my thoughts in the thread.

[Metal Sonic]

What you are saying is 'why didn't you vote Johnny for his bad catchup if you voted Alchemist for his bad cases, because they were both summary instead of analysis?'

WRONG.

you never expressed discontent or nervousness with regard to his posts

you never once expressed "hey! this guy isn't scumhunting, but I may be wrong"

you never clarified further or 1v1'd with JF, which you should have done, to ease your if-you-were-town paranoia on him

there are so many questions that I would have asked JF if I were put in that scenario as town.

considering that you came up with the same questions when bombarding alchemist

i was pretty surprised you didn't have the same thoughts when JF came in

zero. zilch. nada. "oh he's town. because he's assertive. LOL"

[Metal Sonic]

NONONONONONO

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD THOUGHT'S PROCESS ON TOWN:

Why has NO ONE commented on what MS's posts say about his alignment?

Euuurgh. It's hard.

- I like them because there are a

lot

of them. Like, we just had a posting marathon. I'm not sure scum could put in such sustained effort.
- I like them because his thought process is clearly visible across all of them.
- I don't like them because a lot of the analysis seems simplistic or belaboured.
- I don't like them because he doesn't seem open to rereading the game or reconsidering his reads.

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD HAS HIS THOUGHT PROCESS ON SCUM

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

[Metal Sonic]

its SO easy to call town town, quil

its difficult to push town as scum

and it's even more painful when you have to call someone that you know is scum, and would read him as scum if you were town, town

[Quilford]

What you are saying is 'why didn't you vote Johnny for his bad catchup if you voted Alchemist for his bad cases, because they were both summary instead of analysis?'

WRONG.

you never expressed discontent or nervousness with regard to his posts

you never once expressed "hey! this guy isn't scumhunting, but I may be wrong"

you never clarified further or 1v1'd with JF, which you should have done, to ease your if-you-were-town paranoia on him

there are so many questions that I would have asked JF if I were put in that scenario as town.

considering that you came up with the same questions when bombarding alchemist

i was pretty surprised you didn't have the same thoughts when JF came in

zero. zilch. nada. "oh he's town. because he's assertive. LOL"

Can you just not comprehend the concept that Johnny was not on my radar? As I've said for the millionth time now, I was pursuing ETL and BPC/Brian. I was PRETTY confident that BPC was scum and, if you've read Day 1, you'll know that when I'm confident in someone being scum, my focus tends to narrow a bit.

[Metal Sonic]

You are doubting the validity of my arguments because of the provenance? That's not even legit and quilford also knows it. How many games have you played with quilford?

This is my first game with him. Does that mean I can't try and read him? Have you played with him before?

I dunno, probably because if you are scum you win. By stonewalling quilford, if ETL dies today then I die Tmr. If quil dies today and is town then ETL dies tomorrow

This isn't an answer; you declared great paranoia of me immediately after my spat with ETL. I want to know why.

This is my first game with him too. So apart from you having to eat up Day 1(which I argue is the reason for your strong and wrong townread on Quilford), what else makes your read on quilford better than mine?

I have played at least 7 games with ETL.

Yes, it is a result of the spat with ETL. It was a direct result of ETL's points against you, in fact.

Patrick, I have responded to you more than 12 hours ago on phone.

If you require clarification, ask me quick before i go to bed

[Quilford]

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD HAS HIS THOUGHT PROCESS ON SCUM

(n = 1)