NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[Rubicon]

Why do you want him to full claim?

[Rubicon]

It's a big game. Why not an Investigative + Protective combo? Plus whatever I am.

Mafia had a Traitor. I am not vanilla. Doesn't sound balanced unless there's 5 scum.

5 scum sounds reasonable.

[Grib]

No comment.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: RationalMadman

[PointYBagelS]

Why do you want him to full claim?

I don't necessarily. I want to know if he did.

The answer appears to be no.

[Rubicon]

RationalMadman replaced Kitz on April 25th and made 12 decent posts in a short period of time, ostensibly catching up. People had been saying kitz was "meh" and not contributing much, so seeing some new content from the slot was a good sign. However once people stopped talking about him RM's contributions dropped off.

The following quotes are everything he's posted since, over a period of 2 weeks.

The issue for me with the Klingon BW is that the people hopping on it are all my scumreads or null reads.

It's not that I particularly townread klingon, it's that the people attacking him are all outside of my town circle.

what's the vote count?

VOTE: bellaphant

I like this bandwagons for 2 reasons.

1) peace and rubicon are voting them and both seem towny enough to me.

2) If klingoncelt was looking for an easy bw to get attention off him, i bet he'd bus so when he dies they look towny.

Not sure but IF they are i'm certian they'd bus their death smei-clears bella.

Because my townreads arevoting them and a null read is too who is being bw on.

yay for bandwagons VOTE: klingoncelt

I really don't like how his posts are just bandwagoning, sheeping, and a little bit of half-hearted white-knighting to KC while still doubtcasting her.

[RIP]

Why are we role hunting grib... Let him alone and deal with him if he survives night.
There's no reason why we should bother, he killed a scum.
Let him try to take out one more

[RIP]

I won't ask questions.
Let me find my own stuff.

[RIP]

Hello everyone out there in Apocalypse-land

I am Taly, and this is the first time I've replaced into a game. ._.

I've re-read pages 1-15, and skimmed through pages 16-35 - where all the replacements in the world gathered around this game.

Still on catch-up/what-the-fuck-am-I-doing-mode but here are my current thoughts:

1)

I didn't find Elusives entrance in the game to be very productive, I did however get town-vibes from how they've followed up some thoughts in D1. I'll have to read more and ISO her for a solid stance.

2)

Glad Boonskies died and flipped mafia. My only experience with him was in another game where he was town, that really didn't do much to help anything. The wagon on him D1 was a bit weird, but I understand it.

3)

Dear god, House. Why do we end up in games together all the time.

4)

Don't like many posts from Kling and Dave in D1, I'll ISO for a firm position.

5)

I think Nero *might* be town... Partially going off of what I see from his persona, but meta isn't always credible. So far this is gut reading, but it may change once I get to D2 in catch-up. I don't like his "read their role pm" explanations, though. It irks me, and it comes off as dismissive.

6)

Some of Peaces early posts rub me the wrong way.

7)

VCA:

Davesaz
Vampirate
Ricastle
Nero Cain
PointYBagelS

All these names have been on both mislynch wagons thus far. Not screaming scum on any of them yet but this does not look reassuring.

I don't like his "read their role pm" explanations, though. It irks me, and it comes off as dismissive.

Well I could say that (now) I've lead a scum wagon on d1 and have likely found scum in House and maybe PB. If I asked you why you are town what would you tell me?

Yeah, I'll give you some credit for not pressuring scum but creating a wagon on them, and then leaving it for a town wagon.............

Would you like to give me a case on House at least - since you've 'found scum?'

Also - why am I town?

Well, telling you "read my role PM" isn't really insightful. I am town however, mostly because I wouldn't spend an hour trying to catch-up with half a thread that I replaced in randomly and then post my current thinking on things I know little about if I were scum.

So yeah, you're getting me at very low filter. ;P

I question how genuine he is, in seeing how he expresses himself in posts. I think it's personality, trying to be polite. But it still would have pinged me if I wasn't his slot.

So her posts feel insincere to you and you think she was trying to make people feel good about her by being polite?

Yeah, that is a good summary. But I don't think it is necessarily scummy, as I've said - I believe it to be their persona. Even if they were faking AtE, I would be a sucker for thinking it is more likely town - unless substance proved otherwise.

Mostly because politeness and agreeability gets town to band together and steamroll the scum and shit. It also makes the thread actually pleasurable to read.

>>>>>>>>>>

Ooh, the Klingon wagon is catching my interest. Plus, Klingon was already on my list to look at

Skimmed through Klingons ISO, and partially started reading the brutal murder of Skold Part 2 - The Skolquel

Klingons D1 performance isn't fruitful. Especially the entrance, which was just RQS over things irrelevant to the game. We now know Boons is mafia, so let's see her interaction with Boons and see if it is congruent to a possible partnership.

136 Seems a little weird. Boons - being a mafia traitor - takes a shot at another possible scum candidate with a vote that isn't even serious?

But then Klingon makes a vote on someone completely different than Boons? Is this RVS? Klingon already made an RQS which proved to not tell anything. Her comment "oh wait" seems a bit frivolous.

I've seen scum in 2 different occasions make pot-shots at each other in RVS for town-cred, and I've seen scum also make a noncommittal vote on something irrelevant and then pass it off as if it were "oh, silly me." Not liking Klingons position at the moment.

Her next 2 posts involve saying she's not really active, and re-reading quite a lot. 422 and 425 >>> Says she is inconclusive on Garmr but doesn't really interact with them to form some type of consensus.

A lot of her next posts seems to be saying she is re-reading players, but then never really says anything about them. She even reiterates they she is still inconclusive on Garmr but doesn't do anything about it. She does however, respond to posts that are directly towards her. Which tells that she may be a bit more focused on her position than the progression of the game currently. Seeing how she has also commented that the game is stalled 734 and 19 I'm not liking what I'm seeing - She also seems to have defended Boons' wagon quite a bit 427 as an example - and passes it off mostly because it is likely meta.

If a person is scummy, despite meta - then they're scummy. They need to lock their shit up and stop expecting people to townread them for it.

I also find that a lot of Klingons reads are ambivalent, and based partially off of meta.

Err, should re-read and look deeper into her recent posts, but so far - I'm not liking D1 performance. I haven't seen a giant stride towards doing something, and I feel like her reasons for voting people such as Dave or Skold weren't entirely explained. Her interaction with Boons didn't seem very genuine, even though Boons was a Mafia Traitor.

Also, Creative was the person killed last night, and did scum-read Klingon as said. So I believe Ricastle might be onto something here.

I'm still not done looking all throughout Klingons ISO, but I'm not getting town-vibes.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I'm liking this vote - Qs for Klingon:

1)

What are your currents thoughts on: Ricastle, Dave, Grib, and Peace?

2)

Give me 2 quoted/linked reasons explaining why I should be townreading you. You did mention that you weren't going to be a "mislynch" this game. 887

3)

Why did you go for the Skold wagon instead of the Vampirate in [post=919[/post]?

This posts are super long but damn she has some really good stuff. I like you.
I'm gonna say town for sure here. That's probably the best case of klingon I seen

[RIP]

I need to find the creative reads since he was killed. Taly seems to think he was pushing Kling, so let see

[RIP]

First to talk, first to die!

VOTE: kitz

So now that RVS is over, can i vote on

Gribs

for realzies now?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gribs

Pointy

,

Errant

townies

Boonskies

reacted very poorly to the RVS thingy, lot of people throwing scum on him, the wierd thing is that no one tried to defend him, wich may indicates that he is town.

I'm in guys!

VOTE: jbomber732

Elusive

Spoiler:

My issue with Ricastle is that I didn't like his reasoning for voting Skold and now I don't like or follow his reasoning for voting Klingoncelt. I have to look at Klingoncelt's four games that he linked to further ascertain whether or not what he's saying is congruent with the actual games which will most likely happen this weekend.. I've actually pointed out the reasons I found him to be odd. If the logic doesn't make sense to me then I pursue it until it does or the player with the weird logic can better explain or stops with the misuse of logic.

I actually, haven't taken any heat off of KlingonCelt in the sense that I've asked her questions and asked for her a reads posts with reasons (as well as Nero a reads post with reasons and I want Houses' read on KC particularly since he knows her better). I've also asked a couple of other players questions that are pending to be answered.

The facts are that I don't have enough scum games to really self-describe my scum meta but based on what others have said, its a sharp departure from my town game which is a mixture of fluff and aggression - more or less of each depending on the players in the game. I'm trying hard to not have a meltdown or be provoked by scum or derptown although that's a WIP.

Do I question people who are taking leadership roles but who I personally believe aren't the best town leaders? Yes, definitely. Have I tried to shut down players as scum? Nope, but again I don't roll scum enough or have opportunities to develop a scum game so far so I don't know what I'm capable of.

This is my town game, and if I feel like a player is anti-town or making bad choices I will try to figure them or shut down what sounds like nonsense.

What are your reads in this game so far? Or what do you think of Bellaphant? Who do you want to question?

Town:

Rubicon
Nero
Ricastle
Elusive
Davesaz

Null or weak town read:

Errant
Boonskies
Pointy
RationalMadman

Scummy:

Klingoncelt
Peacebringer

People who are not listed i don´t know what to think so far. If you ISO me i have posted what i think on different times on the game

I think

Bellaphant

is not pushing anywhere just defending on attacks, i haven´t read anything visbily scummy from her tho.

I questioned

Davesaz

a lot, and i questioned you just now, when i want to question someone again, i will do it.

Sorry you rolled scum this game.

VOTE: Xayzeck

That list he posted has very similar reads to house. Kinda weird

He pushed klingon and PB jelly time a lot. Then xaycheck? Guy and then died.

I agree that mainly Pb and KC will benefit from his death?
Was he being read as Obv town? Cuz that's important to know

[Grib]

Creative was kind of a weird kill, imo. I had a light townread on him.

[Klingoncelt]

Does traitor knows who is scum team?

yes. My current tinfoil theory is that he knew Celt was scum and voted her to get the scums attention and thus they shot him night 1.

Nice Captain Flawbvious theory, so unfortunate that you're wrong. I'm not Scum.
BTW if Scum killed him, wouldn't Boon still be alive? We have ether a vigilante, a PGO, or and SK in the game.

I need to know what was he thinking. It's importsnt to me.

I can't envision how this is helpful to town. Who cares what the previous occupant of your slot thought.[/quote]

Nero, why didn't you go after any of the other replacements for checking out their predecessors, particularly Taly?

You really want that Megalo/House/RIP slot to appear to be Scum, whether it is or isn't. Why is that?

You've been making a lot of noise this game, but as yet haven't said anything useful.

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

It's on!

@Shinobi - Has Boons been prodded?

Honest ta gawd I'm ready to vote for him. Something like 14 posts the whole game, none of which say anything useful.

Looking for a PL, eh, scummy?

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Parking my vote back where it was. Sorry, but there's no way she's not scum.

I like dat Klingon vote.

Trust the boon. His reads are usually pretty good. Vote Klingon.

I never pushed Nero; there was no Nero vs Boon. I think he's town. Nero's one of my strongest town reads.

House v Nero is TvT.

He deff had a hard on for klingon. I can see traitor starting by voting klingon when she prob hasn't posted as to give a clue.
If Kling is scum she would pick up right away and convert him to scum.
Was he ever converted? How do we know if he was?

If he were converted, he'd still be alive.

I didn't really pay any attention to Boon's attacking me. Boon is Boon, he's very silly so I ignore him lots.

[Klingoncelt]

...

Boons is hard to figure out. I thought he was Scum, then figured he might actually be a PR.

The good news is that he's gone.

I'm sad we lost Creative, but at least he was a VT, not a PR.

Why were 2 people killed?

Ok so I don't see anything about Kling that tells me she's town. She's not Obv scum either but she is not game solving and just fluffs a lot.

I also find weird she has boon as town even thought he's really tunneling her.
She even points out that wago img him is bad... As he is still building a wagon on her.

Then when he dies she thinks he could be a PR... A PR that's calling u scum...
Why would u ink he is PR if he's Obv wrong if u are town?
Ur trollish style always ping me, btw.

VOTE: klingon

"Why would u ink he is PR if he's Obv wrong if u are town?"

What, PRs can't be wrong?

I can tell if someone's game is "off." "Off" can come from 3 things: 1) They have some serious real life shit to deal with, 2) They're Scum, or 3) They're Town and trying to hide their PR-ness.

Boon is Boon, as I've said already. For him being "off'' is typical. Not that he was voting me, but that he was not looking much at

anyone else

was a bit strange. I think it might relate to another game, he hosted, I was Town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60635

[Klingoncelt]

Why do you think Peace is able to defend his buddy but Celt can't defend her buddy?

I have said I think KC is town, it is not absolute certainy and if you folks want to run her up and lynch her, not a problem. I think there are other directions to go that would be productive.

So if KC comes up town, as I suspect what will that tell you? Where will you go at the point?

I bet it will tell everyone that there's Scum on my wagon.

[Klingoncelt]

Said buddy being? House? When did that happen exactly?

That's kinda the whole reason that there's so much pressure on Celt. Like she was treating me and House differently even though we are responsible for the same thing. You even made a post about this bro so I'm a little surprised that you asked. IMO that's just as much as a defense job as Peace calling her an egg.

I've known House since 2011 on another site. Fuck yeah I'll treat him differently than someone I've had next to zero contact with.

[Klingoncelt]

It's a big game. Why not an Investigative + Protective combo? Plus whatever I am.

Mafia had a Traitor. I am not vanilla. Doesn't sound balanced unless there's 5 scum.

5 Scum in an 18-player game??!

[PointYBagelS]

It's a big game. Why not an Investigative + Protective combo? Plus whatever I am.

Mafia had a Traitor. I am not vanilla. Doesn't sound balanced unless there's 5 scum.

5 Scum in an 18-player game??!

With a traitor this shouldn't be surprising.

[Klingoncelt]

Night 1 tracked KC she went no where
night 2 tracked elusive she went no where

Ok, so there are some possible loopholes if scum have a passive role. What do others thinks about this?

I do wish it cleared us completely and made us the most obvious of Obvtown, but it doesn't. I do think it should move us towards some players' Null pile, at least, though, cause seriously, I can't travel, can't visit, stuck home at night.

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5):

Ricastle, Vampirate, RationalMadman, RIP, PointYBagelS

Ricastle

(2):

Klingoncelt, PeaceBringer

PeaceBringer

(1):

Nero Cain

RationalMadman

(1):

Rubicon

Not Voting

(5):

davesaz, elusive, Errantparabola, Grib, Taly

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-23 21:30:00)

[Klingoncelt]

ricastle...
since you are out there as not vanilla, the only reason I thought perhaps you would be so stubborn regarding KC was if it was an alternative investigative that came up different, either that or ultra cocky with your reads, or scum trying to lead town. I still do not know which...

Scum trying to lead Town.

It's impossible to get a bad read on me I'm a fukkin' VT.

[Klingoncelt]

Creative was kind of a weird kill, imo. I had a light townread on him.

Umm, isn't the idea that Scum kill Townies?

[Nero Cain]

Said buddy being? House? When did that happen exactly?

That's kinda the whole reason that there's so much pressure on Celt. Like she was treating me and House differently even though we are responsible for the same thing. You even made a post about this bro so I'm a little surprised that you asked. IMO that's just as much as a defense job as Peace calling her an egg.

I've known House since 2011 on another site. Fuck yeah I'll treat him differently than someone I've had next to zero contact with.

no. Like if you think someone is scummy for X it makes no logical sense to ignore that from the other player doing X.

[Nero Cain]

BTW if Scum killed him, wouldn't Boon still be alive?

First a correction, Boons was not "added" to the main mafia team and he was not shot night one.

Nero, why didn't you go after any of the other replacements for checking out their predecessors, particularly Taly?

I think it only seems like that b/c I had a preexisting scum read on House but quote me where I claimed a town read on Taly? Why do you have a problem with me thinking RIP is scummy for this?

You really want that Megalo/House/RIP slot to appear to be Scum, whether it is or isn't. Why is that?

No, not really. I want to be right and lead town to victory. But I'm having a time telling the difference between whats bad play that was sent a green pm and bad play that was sent a red pm. To me there's not much difference.

like, I really am having a hard time seeing House as town saying

You're just showing that you want me dead regardless of my alignment, which is scummy as shit.

Any town is going to push their scumreads, he knows this AND he has seen me as town and he knows that me tunneling is not a scumtell thus I feel that its off and an attempt at manipulation.

RIP coming in and using House's reads as a starting point seems odd to me.