Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[Klingoncelt]

Haschel Cedricson is my top town read by far. VeeGee needs to generate content or things are going to go badly for him, regardless of what his alignment is.

We have 9 days. A lot can happen in that time.

[Accountant]

Town has no reason to sit on their asses after being asked to generate content.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I detest wallposts.

You're going to like me half the time and hate me half the time!

Hey gob, give me a four-or-five-word read on the following players: stoz, texcat, Accountant.

VeeGee, you may do this as well.

[Radja]

DAY 1, VOTECOUNT 7

VeeGee (5)

-

Accountant, vijay2vasandani, SamX, stoz, gob

gob (4)

-

texcat, VeeGee, havingfitz, Hopkirk

St Constantine the Hermit (1)

-

St Constantine the Hermit

stoz (1)

-

Dessew

Not Voting (2)

-

Haschel Cedricson, Klingoncelt

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on September 5th at 08:00 PM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2015-09-05 08:00:00).

Mod Notes - None

[Radja]

St Constantine the Hermit has been prodded. This is his first prod.

[Accountant]

I detest wallposts.

You're going to like me half the time and hate me half the time!

Hey gob, give me a four-or-five-word read on the following players: stoz, texcat, Accountant.

VeeGee, you may do this as well.

I'll do it too.

Stoz: Nothing special, no clear read.
Texcat: Solid content, probably town.

[gob]

I detest wallposts.

You're going to like me half the time and hate me half the time!

Hey gob, give me a four-or-five-word read on the following players: stoz, texcat, Accountant.

VeeGee, you may do this as well.

stoz: Town read, he is very helpful in his 9 posts and i can tell he is reading the game and keeping up.
I think his posts like #208 really show he is on the town side of things.

texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)

Accountant: Town, i think my quick statement of accusing her of OMGUS was wrong before. She has been trying to better town in a way that is apparent, however, there is one thing i want to note.

She hardly took a stance on me in her large wall-text post.

i can understand that its day 1 and all but i really find this interesting as i thought the post itself was interesting but her final statements did not leave clarity on her stance.

[Accountant]

Gob, I think you're most likely scum, and if you aren't then you're fucking around and need to stop. Is that clear enough for you?

[Accountant]

did not leave clarity on her stance

In addition: this is the hottest BS I've heard so far in this game, given that I literally gave percentages for what your alignment was.

[Accountant]

stoz

I don't like leaving people as "no clear read", so I'm going to go ahead and take a closer look at stoz's ISO.

He has nine posts total, three of which are fluff. Six content posts in an eleven-page game is eye-brow raising, I think, but can be forgiven if the posts themselves are full of good, meaty insights. Let's take a look.

#93:
States that Trivium's question could be town, then says that it could also be scum. Concludes that it's a null tell. This seems like he's just trying to pretend to analyze, this point gives absolutely no content and could be summarized as "the RVS is a null tell for me", which is hardly an amazing discovery. Votes an inactive, which is fine at that point in the game.


#122: Took a stance on gob's reads list, even if it was a mild one like "I don't think it shows he's scum". Pretty standard, average post, just commenting on mod vote counts and such.


#137 and #166: stoz puts pressure off SamX, shifts it onto VeeGee. This does tell me something about his thought process, but he hasn't come up with any original ideas so far, having mostly agreed with vijay about VeeGee. I do not agree with Dessew's statement that he's been fence-sitting, commiting to VeeGee is a pretty clear indication that he's picking a side.

#208: This to me is stoz's saving grace. It's an original idea and after reading it I felt genuinely convinced of a possible Dessew buddying Gob or vice-versa(which was only reinforced after they both agreed that each other were scum). I agree strongly with gob that his feels very townish to me. I can imagine scum!stoz writing this, but it's not as obvious as town!stoz writing this.

#232: Promises to address the rest of Dessew's post.

Remember to make a note if he fails to do this.

Overall read on stoz: town. #208 was a strong town post and the other two, while not exactly the meatiest of posts, had nothing overly scummy about them. I don't think he's a particularly strong town or obvtown, but I do think he's town.

[gob]

your final reads were nearly 50/50 (it was 40/60)

That is not clarifying that is sitting on the fence. Im not fucking around.

[gob]

Why are you so upset about me calling you out?
Do you have something you're trying to hide?

I clearly stated that you were town, but mentioned that you were fence-sitting (to a degree)
You made it seem like you were giving a statement but in the end you simply said "They are town or mafia"

It was more of a suggestion for your future posts.

[Accountant]

Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting. Because the way I see it a 20% more likely chance of being mafia than town is pretty big, especially 11 pages in on a guy who's been messing up all my reads with his incomprehensible posts.

[gob]

Im not calling your reads bad dude, but if you were town you would have straight up stated in the clear that "gob is mafia" not be wishy washy about it.

[Accountant]

Why would I? I'm not confident you're mafia and theres no reason to lie to town about my reads confidence. Especially not on the eleventh page.

[gob]

Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.
No matter how you look at it, you cant blame me for calling you out.

[Accountant]

This is going nowhere fast. Im going to step away and let others give their input. Suffice to say that when I write up a gigantic megapost talking about your pro and anti town attributes and give you a 20% chance higher of scum than town I don't feel its fencesitting.

The reason why scum likes to fencesit is because they can be flexible and throw their support behind whichever wagon gains the most popularity as they like. This is directly contradictory to me locking myself in with hard numbers about your alignment and possible role.

[stoz]

@stoz: If gob was mafia defending his buddy, would he really do it as blatantly as declaring Dessew his top town? The "subtle" defense of gob by Dessew disturbs me a lot more though.

Yeah it is definitely a one-way thing now. To borrow your formatting, scum!gob is trying to distance himself from Dessew and town!gob is being setup to be lynched when scum!Dessew flips.

I agree that we need to lynch VeeGee, but we definitely should not hammer early. To be clear, I'm autolynching anybody that quickhammers VeeGee, even if VG turns out to be scum.

That's playing against Town's win condition. It's also narcissistic.

I'm precommiting to this in order to deter people from quickhammering in the first place. Note that mafia also has reason to quickhammer other mafia at L-1. It makes them look good and also allows them to cut short the day.

It is easy to

accidentally

quick-hammer someone and then ask for forgiveness later. I agree with Accountant's stance.

stoz has virtually done nothing, which is fine by itself. The suspicious part is his tone. Example:

At first I thought Trivium's question was quite good, because it would force scum to declare if they are going to be active or lurk when they have less information on the game.

Upon thinking about it some more I realised that if Trivium was scum it could be a great tool to use to help forward a lynch on someone town who gets busy in real life.

Overall I'm going to have to treat it as null.

A meticulous piece of analysis of nothing with no real conclusion at the end. The time & energy he seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable. The rest of his iso is better in the sense that he's more active, but he has just moved away from the total nihil, in the direction of one of the already established & discussed to death.

I agree this wasn't my best post, but I haven't been fence sitting, I've been sharing my observations and opinions when able.

Example? I haven't seen you put anything new into the game. The only thing you mentioned the first time was a past experience of yours. You used it not to join a dead-on-arrival wagon.

Example: I took steps to get SamX into the game more, by voting and also by drawing out who she thought was town when she couldn't make any scum reads. I think you seem fixated on my post #208.

I'm actually quite concerned with gob and Dessew defending each other. In #184 gob described Dessew as "my top town" when Dessew's contributions at that time were:

#79: "I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding the alignments of [Haschel and Hopkirk]." and clarifies a mistake gob made.
#138: "First of all, let's not get carried away [with gobs list]"
#161: "Why [is VeeGee voting] Gob? Why not vijay?"
#182: "The time & energy [stoz] seems to devote to fence-sit is truly remarkable"

Almost everything has been about putting gob in a positive light.

Where? I called him town in 190, is that it?

I do not see how you can think I only mean post #190 when you have quoted my own examples right here! Again though, in post 138 you tell people not to think gob is scum and in 161 you try to redirect VeeGees vote away from gob. Yes if you read gob as town then I understand you don't want him lynched, but (and especially when I made the post above) the majority of your contributions seemed to be centered around showing gob in a good light, which looks really scummy.

If I had been voting or expressing suspicion of gob I really would believe Dessew was the gob defence force, so Dessew's vote on me is the only part that doesn't stack up. Perhaps Dessew is looking to start a counter-wagon that won't look like OMGUS?

Please, let's not adopt the habit of taking rhetoric questions. Do you think that or not?

I think it's a possibility. What I

do

think is that your interactions with gob look scummy and I'm trying to work out how that fits within the larger workings of this game.

A humble suggestion: make one post.

I would love to, but I keep ending up out of the house all day for he past week or two

And with PAX Prime coming up, that's gonna stay for now.

I think this is a massive problem, and the main reason I won't change my vote off VeeGee is because I don't want inactivity to be a get-out-of-lynch free card.

@VeeGee

, do you need to be replace out (again)?

I don't post much on Day 1, I'm checking out everyone else.

I'm one of those "Day 3" players, by then I should have a very accurate reads list, regardless of game size.

Don't we all wish we could get a free pass to Day 3 with tons of information from flips and night actions to go on. I find day 1 the hardest but not doing enough got me lynched day 1 in my last game (I was VT).

Haschel Cedricson is my top town read by far. VeeGee needs to generate content or things are going to go badly for him, regardless of what his alignment is.

We have 9 days. A lot can happen in that time.

In my last game we drew it out right down to the wire and it was terrible. Not everyone was online and other people were being stubborn with their votes, it was really hard to co-ordinate. In my opinion we need someone stating intent to hammer at least 3 days before the deadline, maybe earlier if VeeGee can't be relied on to respond in a timely manner.

stoz

#232: Promises to address the rest of Dessew's post.

Remember to make a note if he fails to do this.

Addressed

Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting. Because the way I see it a 20% more likely chance of being mafia than town is pretty big, especially 11 pages in on a guy who's been messing up all my reads with his incomprehensible posts.

I think Accountant is town, mostly because she seems to be taking more and more stances on players, which as scum would give her less room to manoeuvre. There is enough going on that Accountant didn't have to read my ISO, but she chose to anyway.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Hey guys, let me catch up please

[SamX]

Okay, so I would like everyone who reads this post to post a quick(one sentence) read on me, plus an addendum about whether you think I'm fence-sitting. Because the way I see it a 20% more likely chance of being mafia than town is pretty big, especially 11 pages in on a guy who's been messing up all my reads with his incomprehensible posts.

I think I've posted something for you earlier. But nothing has really changed since then. Still biggest town. Also don't think you're fence-sitting. You probably have a good chunk of quality posts for D1, and you're definitely not undecided...

[Hopkirk]

Dessew
“I have a case you refuse to comment on.”
I commented upon it. You did what you accused stoz of doing twice. If you’re serious then you should think you’re scum.
“Then your bitching about those questions is irrelevant, too, I presume. I didn't comment because there wasn't anything to comment on.”
Everyone else in the game was discussing things/taking stances. Not doing that is the definition of fence sitting.

@Samx: “I think Dessew is leaning town for me. He gives constructive criticism”: Why do you think helpful fluff is town behaviour? Hiding low content with it is a favoured tactic of scum.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry about the formatting, a bit busy. Doesn't affect the content though.

Gob
“BTW HopKrirk, im not ignoring your criticisms in the slightest, they are just being asked by others as well, so when i answer them i dont feel the need to repeat myself.”
If I don’t think my questions have been answered then I’m not unvoting.

(Gob) 242: This is just weird. He goes through several of klingon’s posts, and says literally nothing positive. He ends with
“In the end i believe Klingoncelt is Town. He has done enough to put himself in the lime-light but he is really doing nothing.”.
This does not sound like a reason for a townread.
Then look at 256.
“texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)”
Why did he make a case for a townread instead of a scumread that he claimed to have? Why not even mention the scumread until asked?
“but if you were town you would have straight up stated in the clear that "gob is mafia" not be wishy washy about it.”
“Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.”
This is a misrep.

[VeeGee]

@VeeGee

, do you need to be replace out (again)?

I'll be free today and possibly monday, as well as after school starts for me (lunchtime and all that).

[Dessew]

Ok I don't know what you've done here Dessew, but I wanted to point out to everyone that you've mangled the quote and I did not say "Nope, doing nothing is not fine by itself." and certainly not in post 93. It's also makes it funnier when you tell Hopkirk "clearly, there's no reason to devote time to teaching BBCode."

Haha, yeah, sorry, I quoted that from vijay. I have a talent to screw up things at the best times possible. :D

I disagree with your statement about my wording. The question"by what metric are vijay's posts half-assed, particularly when compared to the posts of half the players in this game?" clearly demands an answer that actually talks about vijay's posts, and gob's response comes across as an intentional question dodge.

Do you know what "particularly" means? Because I'm pretty sure you don't, & that's fine, because the topic here is not the quality of the English you are using, not even the quality of your posts, but wether gob is town or scum. So look it up in a dictionary & then adjust your read in the light of that.

Scum!Gob

- Dodged quite a few questions. What does he have to hide?

- Does not seem to be actively pushing a town agenda. When Haschel Cedricson posts, I get a sense that the game is clearer for me, the metaphorical outlines of players slightly sharper. When Gob posts, I'm left scratching my head. I can't think of a single post of his that left me going "yes, this post definitely helps town and is pushing a town agenda".

- Incomprehensibility. Claiming that my logic is off because I flipped reads from "gob is town" to "gob is VI or scum" doesn't really make sense. Reads should be updated as the game goes on, yes? Not to mention his ??? ramble about the setup early in D1 and his claim that his reads are always right(even when presented with evidence they aren't). After that, he claims that his reads list got town moving, although it didn't.

That seems comprehensive, I daresay, but it lacks a crucial element: how does all this point to gob being scum?

CONCLUSION:
Gob is vanilla townie : 0%
Gob is power role : 5% given his known meta for acting somewhat unbalanced as a PR
Gob is a clueless town member: 40%
Gob is scum: 60%

OH, GOD, YOU ARE RUSSIAN, AREN'T YOU? FORGET EVERYTHING i'VE EVER SAID, I AGREE WITH YOU, JUST DON'T INVADE ME IN A PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE MANNER! :D

#137 and #166: stoz puts pressure off SamX, shifts it onto VeeGee. This does tell me something about his thought process, but he hasn't come up with any original ideas so far, having mostly agreed with vijay about VeeGee. I do not agree with Dessew's statement that he's been fence-sitting, commiting to VeeGee is a pretty clear indication that he's picking a side.

The pressure on Sam was telling her that he was voting her, & he was fourth on the VG wagon. These are not scummy by themselves, but they are if you chrck his entire iso. Considering them as a sign of taking a strong individual stance is definitely a stretch. Actually, you can leave out any one of those two adjectives, & it's still a stretch.

#208: This to me is stoz's saving grace. It's an original idea and after reading it I felt genuinely convinced of a possible Dessew buddying Gob or vice-versa(which was only reinforced after they both agreed that each other were scum). I agree strongly with gob that his feels very townish to me. I can imagine scum!stoz writing this, but it's not as obvious as town!stoz writing this.

I'm a lazy bum, so I'm not gonna check it now, but iirc, Hopkirk was the first one, to make an association between gob and me, not stoz. Secondly, he's lying in that post.

Example: I took steps to get SamX into the game more, by voting and also by drawing out who she thought was town when she couldn't make any scum reads. I think you seem fixated on my post #208.

I believe I've already commented about this in this post, so I'm skipping it now.

Again though, in post 138 you tell people not to think gob is scum

I definitely didn't. Quote the part, where I did.

and in 161 you try to redirect VeeGees vote away from gob.

He hadn't said why he voted gob at the time, but he seemed to have a scumreadish something on vijay, so I asked. Like a couple of other players did.

Yes if you read gob as town then I understand you don't want him lynched, but (and especially when I made the post above) the majority of your contributions seemed to be centered around showing gob in a good light, which looks really scummy.

So this part is baseless, I suppose.
I will look at your meta, though, scream at me, if I don't mention it the next time I post.

[gob]

Sorry about the formatting, a bit busy. Doesn't affect the content though.

Gob
“BTW HopKrirk, im not ignoring your criticisms in the slightest, they are just being asked by others as well, so when i answer them i dont feel the need to repeat myself.”
If I don’t think my questions have been answered then I’m not unvoting.

(Gob) 242: This is just weird. He goes through several of klingon’s posts, and says literally nothing positive. He ends with
“In the end i believe Klingoncelt is Town. He has done enough to put himself in the lime-light but he is really doing nothing.”.
This does not sound like a reason for a townread.
Then look at 256.
“texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)”
Why did he make a case for a townread instead of a scumread that he claimed to have? Why not even mention the scumread until asked?
“but if you were town you would have straight up stated in the clear that "gob is mafia" not be wishy washy about it.”
“Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.”
This is a misrep.

well yes that is some terrible formatting.

I am guessing you are seeing something i dont see for kling since his town has been so blatant in his dickish-ness.
You cannot deny that fact.
Add that onto the other things i said and its kinda clear he is VT not giving a shit.