Open 616: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

The name is obviously a lie

[lilith2013]

VOTE: randommidget

I'm really confused by this name. Is it Rando midget or Random Idget. I think Rando is an awesome name therefore I vote for the former.

There's two m's.. so it spells Rand Ommidget!

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Diego for misspelling

[lilith2013]

VOTE: randomidget for calling L-1 when it's like L-4

[lilith2013]

o.O

okie then...

[lilith2013]

@lilith on a scale from 1-10 how anxious does it make you feel when someone votes you? Be honest with me.

Probably like a 2 for having 2 votes on me. We have plenty of time left so I'm not worried.
I'm confused because Fire/Vedith voted me for "reasons X and Y," and I can't tell whether they're just trolling or not? I don't think I've played with Fire before so.. I guess it's just trolling.

[lilith2013]

you are killing me

Hi do I know you

[lilith2013]

I don't think I've played with Fire before

Fire has no way of scumreading me. If the hydra were voting me seriously this early, it would probably come from Vedith because I have played with him before. Also, from what I know, Fire and Vedith have similar playstyles (e.g, unserious/trolling). Therefore, I doubt Fire's vote on me was serious or had any reasonable basis. --> trolling

It had nothing to do with him not sharing reasons.

[lilith2013]

Fire has no way of scumreading me. If the hydra were voting me seriously this early, it would probably come from Vedith because I have played with him before. Also, from what I know, Fire and Vedith have similar playstyles (e.g, unserious/trolling). Therefore, I doubt Fire's vote on me was serious or had any reasonable basis. --> trolling

It had nothing to do with him not sharing reasons.

You are completely wrong here. Neither of us troll, you just need to be a player who plays here often to know that we try to make the game that little more enjoyable.
Also, if anything, FB is most likely the serious head.
Concerning FB scum reading you, of course he can believe that you are scum, it might be wrong, or even right but he can suspect anyone as higher scum right now.

-Vedith

In my view, trolling = not serious. Not necessarily a bad thing. I do think you both are not always serious and use a lot of sarcasm, which is trolling to me. In terms of being able to scumread me, I seriously doubt Fire would be able to say right off the bat, while I was obviously RVSing, whether I was scum. Because we haven't played together before.

Who on Diego's wagon do you think is scum?

[lilith2013]

I believe I've read through one or two of his games, which gave me a general idea of how he behaves and his posting style. As I only have one finished game onsite, I doubt anyone would know enough about me to know my playstyle.

What kind of play would lead you to form a legitimate reason to vote someone you'd never played with before?

[lilith2013]

I believe I've read through one or two of his games, which gave me a general idea of how he behaves and his posting style. As I only have one finished game onsite, I doubt anyone would know enough about me to know my playstyle.

What kind of play would lead you to form a legitimate reason to vote someone you'd never played with before?

I'm pretty sure he saw the game where I was in with you. So yeah, even after 1 game you can pick up peoples traits. I personally disagree, but some people like to see a persons first few pages of a game, compare it to another of theirs and judge. But I think we have hit base enough of who knows what, who can and can't be wrong etc etc etc.
Do you really think that saying it in a game is beneficial?
Hey guys, if you do 'this' I will call you scum, if you do 'that' I will say town...

-Vedith

I was actually asking from a theory standpoint. I usually struggle to form reads D1.

[lilith2013]

You can replace out if you can't contribute the time. I don't think anyone is going to object if we can get an active player in your slot.

Sharky, do you actually have views on anyone that you can share, or are you just trying to discredit anyone you can?

[lilith2013]

Well since I'm town, I think we should lynch Apricity.

@Apricity, are you scum? Just admit it, you'll feel all fresh and relieved after all.

why apricity over not_mafia

Cause Not_Mafia's not mafia. Duh.

I'm gonna swiftly escape the Diego wagon to avoid suspicion now.

VOTE: Diamond

Smooth.

Any reason you unvoted Diego other than to get off the wagon? Has your view on him changed since you voted him?

[lilith2013]

My vote on random was also during RVS. Somewhere on page 1. As I said, I struggle to form reads D1 so he's pretty null to me. Do I need to unvote? What's the convention here. (The way I play, we usually leave our votes on people until we find a new person to vote. Not much unvoting that happens.)

[lilith2013]

You can replace out if you can't contribute the time. I don't think anyone is going to object if we can get an active player in your slot.

Sharky, do you actually have views on anyone that you can share, or are you just trying to discredit anyone you can?

I don't think it's fair to ask someone to swap out, but it's fine to tell them to contribute more imo.

-Vedith

I wasn't asking him to replace out, I'm just saying that's an option for him if he knows he can't contribute the time and can't get interested in the game.


ASP: how was 86 opportunistic?

[lilith2013]

Just so you know guys according to meta asp will tunnel me then flake day 2.
I am now joining any games with vedith and jester in.
I'm getting gut scum on lilith. Reminds me of New scum in newbies.

@Lillith - Talk to me about Random

I haven't seen you take a step over there for a while, and that is where your vote is.

-Vedith

Talk to me about lilith.

Please explain how you have a scumread on me. You have a gut scumread on me so why aren't you voting me?

Cause Not_Mafia's not mafia. Duh.

I'm gonna swiftly escape the Diego wagon to avoid suspicion now.

VOTE: Diamond

Smooth.

Any reason you unvoted Diego other than to get off the wagon? Has your view on him changed since you voted him?

Can you answer my question, Jester?

[lilith2013]

You see, I forgot there was only the doctor in this setup as a PR, so the odds are astronomical of actually lynching him. And besides, what kind of IDIOT wouldn't claim doc if he was about to get lynched.

Can you explain what you mean by "the odds of actually lynching the doctor are astronomical if the doctor is the only PR"--wouldn't the odds of lynching a PR be even higher if there were more PRs? Wouldn't the odds of lynching doctor be just about even with the odds of lynching any other person in this game? How does our chance of lynching doctor go up as the number of PRs goes down? What is this post even.. Is this supposed to be a crumb or something?

[lilith2013]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

Here we have your scumreads. Do you disagree that you called random, itle, and sharky scum or leaned scum on them?

I answered your questions, besides the one about the vote on Diego, which I have nothing to base it off of. I haven't seen anything scummy, and the same people who are trying to lynch him are now trying to lynch me. That leaves nothing to be said.

13 posts after you said you saw the interaction between random, itle and sharky as scummy, you say you have no scumreads.

Nobody is acting scummy enough to merit my vote currently. The only ones I'd consider are Jester and MOHIS, and neither or them are strong enough.

PEdit: statement about single player... Hmm

If Jester plays aggressive town, I will almost guarantee he's town.


I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's all I got.

PPEdit: None of them are strong enough.

Where did your scumreads random, itle and sharky go?

[lilith2013]

Can we get a vote count?

[lilith2013]

Just so you know guys according to meta asp will tunnel me then flake day 2.
I am now joining any games with vedith and jester in.
I'm getting gut scum on lilith. Reminds me of New scum in newbies.

@Lillith - Talk to me about Random

I haven't seen you take a step over there for a while, and that is where your vote is.

-Vedith

Talk to me about lilith.

I don't have much on her.
Says that she is bad on D1 which concerns me as I disagree, but I feel if she is scum, she will slip up.

-Vedith

I'm flattered you think I'm not bad on D1, but seriously, I'm pretty usually pretty useless.


Jester and Diamond, are either of you going to answer my questions?

[lilith2013]

You see, I forgot there was only the doctor in this setup as a PR, so the odds are astronomical of actually lynching him. And besides, what kind of IDIOT wouldn't claim doc if he was about to get lynched.

Can you explain what you mean by "the odds of actually lynching the doctor are astronomical if the doctor is the only PR"--wouldn't the odds of lynching a PR be even higher if there were more PRs? Wouldn't the odds of lynching doctor be just about even with the odds of lynching any other person in this game? How does our chance of lynching doctor go up as the number of PRs goes down? What is this post even.. Is this supposed to be a crumb or something?

I'm saying that the odds are stacked against us lynching the doctor, which is a good thing, thus, I voted. One of my many reasons to not vote on D1 until the end is that I think it's the highest chance to lynch a PR.

Why didn't you say this last night?

[lilith2013]

I feel like Oprah's about to go fucking ham on this game, and if you lynch me while I'm asleep, then she definitely will.

I will be asleep for the next 8-9 hours, so don't lynch me while I'm gone. If I'm taken to L-1, please get off me so I can have a last will and testament if you still want to lynch me. If you still deem me lynchable after that statement, then by all means do, but I won't be held responsible at that point.

PEdit: Wrong, itlepip, there's a much bigger reason for it.

In the time it took for you to tell us not to lynch you because reasons, you could have explained.. That post is shorter than this one.

[lilith2013]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

Here we have your scumreads. Do you disagree that you called random, itle, and sharky scum or leaned scum on them?

I answered your questions, besides the one about the vote on Diego, which I have nothing to base it off of. I haven't seen anything scummy, and the same people who are trying to lynch him are now trying to lynch me. That leaves nothing to be said.

13 posts after you said you saw the interaction between random, itle and sharky as scummy, you say you have no scumreads.

Nobody is acting scummy enough to merit my vote currently. The only ones I'd consider are Jester and MOHIS, and neither or them are strong enough.

PEdit: statement about single player... Hmm

If Jester plays aggressive town, I will almost guarantee he's town.


I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's all I got.

PPEdit: None of them are strong enough.

Where did your scumreads random, itle and sharky go?

Can.. you.. answer.. my.. question?

[lilith2013]

Random, do you still have a gut read on me as newb scum? Why didn't you vote me/if you still think I'm scum, why are you not voting me now?

@Diamond: you said their interaction was just ridiculous so you thought they were scum. Has that changed? If not, why would you disregard what you thought about it at an earlier point in time?

[lilith2013]

Diamond, you're not even pretending to try to scumhunt. If you think one of those three are scum, then at least try to question them or something. At this point I'm ready to lynch you, jeez.

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

[lilith2013]

He was at L-2? Diego unvoted him.

[lilith2013]

I don't know if I can make this any clearer:

you're not even pretending to try to scumhunt.

I'll take my vote off you when you actually start doing something other than say "gaiz plz don't lynch me"

[lilith2013]

How are you going to get better at it unless you try? Hell I'm pretty bad at it myself, I'm still a noob, and I'll be the first one to admit it. That doesn't mean I refuse to put effort in. I'm doing the best I can with what I have, and through trial and error, and experience, hopefully I'll get better at it. If you're town, your attitude is really hurting us here. Scum wins much more easily when town is apathetic about finding scum--aka scumhunting. If actions are what you're better at, why don't you look at our votes? We have plenty to look at.

Pedit: Agreeing with Jester, our words in this game basically are our actions, since nights are so far apart.

[lilith2013]

We've had at least two wagons already that you can analyze, Diego's and yours. Do you have anything to say about the people on those wagons?

And I meant noob as in n00b, not newb. I'm not new to mafia either, and I still suck at it too. But I'm consciously putting in effort to ask more questions when I see discrepancies. I think it's great that you know what your strength is, but when you say "I don't scumhunt. ever," that really limits your capabilities.

Pedit: actually I believe it goes regular games --> theme games. Newbie games require more experience to mod as well.

[lilith2013]

Aside: Can we not call anyone noob or newbs in this, it really bugs me whenever someone calls someone else a newb especially when they are not, its shameless attempts at discrediting/superiority shit. We all have varying experiences of mafia, that doesn't make you more right than someone else if you have more.

-Fire

Not sure if this was directed towards me--but for the most part I was calling myself a noob.

Random, do you still have a gut read on me as newb scum? Why didn't you vote me/if you still think I'm scum, why are you not voting me now?

Hi random, mind answering my question?

[lilith2013]

I have a very very tentative scum read. Not enough to be worth acting on, but I will happily join your wagon if it you or most of the players.

Just trying to figure you out. It seemed like you were scumreading me without bothering to vote me (i.e. trying to get other people to lynch me instead) which is a pretty strange/scummy thing to do.

Shitposting when a wagon builds on you isn't a towntell. It's just as easy for scum to freak out over a wagon. Actually I think it's more likely for scum to freak out, but it'll depend on the person whether they'd freak out more as scum or as town.

Jester, question for you: what made you change your mind about Diamond?

[lilith2013]

I just gave the lurkers.

Not sure on Diego, but everyone else seems to scumread him.

I think the wagon died because everyone agreed he wasn't scummy enough to lynch.

Jester is pinging me, and I'm not sure I like it.

Jester is also pinging me a bit. He's casually hopping on and off wagons and not even trying to be discreet about it. This might be a scum strategy to seem as innocent as possible.

My Other Face is Scum reminds me of Shinobi from my last game.

Is that a scumread or townread?

Randomigit seems like sorta obvi-scum to me, I don't know why others can't see that.

How so?

Lilith reminds me of someone I'm encountering in another game, and is a town-read, so I have a town-read on her.

Okay

itlepup can go either way, tbh. He seems polite, which can be either town leader, or a scum among less town-like scum. He's a null read for me, as in I don't know what he'll flip for now.
Nobody else has posted enough to be noteworthy.

Itle is also null for me.

Pedit: scratch the question about MOHIS.

[lilith2013]

Well it was Vedith who voted you and Fire who said you were town/unvoted you.

I'm not sure what I think of them. They're a little more serious than I was expecting from them.

[lilith2013]

Everything Randomigit has done has seemed to be trying to run town off the rails. He/she hasn't said anything of value, and seems to cause chaos whenever they post.

Can you give some examples?

[lilith2013]

For someone who says they're bad at scumhunting, I don't think you're doing badly at it.

I do think random meant gut reads. I was supposedly gut scumread for him.

[lilith2013]

It's a learning process for all of us, Diamond.

I have a very very tentative scum read. Not enough to be worth acting on, but I will happily join your wagon if it you or most of the players.

Just trying to figure you out. It seemed like you were scumreading me without bothering to vote me (i.e. trying to get other people to lynch me instead) which is a pretty strange/scummy thing to do.

Shitposting when a wagon builds on you isn't a towntell. It's just as easy for scum to freak out over a wagon. Actually I think it's more likely for scum to freak out, but it'll depend on the person whether they'd freak out more as scum or as town.

Jester, question for you: what made you change your mind about Diamond?

Tbh I should have voted yoy back then. That was a mistake on my part. As a rule I don't lynch people based off of vibes day 1.

Why should you have voted me back then? Are you saying you're still scumreading me, or that you should have voted me to get a reaction earlier on? Were Sharky's and MOHIS's reaction tests not enough for you in that respect?

[lilith2013]

I'm getting gut scum on lilith. Reminds me of New scum in newbies.

Also please elaborate on how I remind you of newbscum in newbies.

[lilith2013]

Also, Vedith, why are you posting each message separately? Are you trying to build up your post count? That's suspicious as fuck.

It's called phone posting and I had a lot to catch up on. It's easier this way.

-Vedith

Multi-posting on phone is terrible and when you're switching between pages doesn't even work sometimes (very annoying). He also has another head who could up their post count if that was something they were worried about. I don't think it's something that would concern them though.

Well it was Vedith who voted you and Fire who said you were town/unvoted you.

I'm not sure what I think of them. They're a little more serious than I was expecting from them.

The difference with my solo account, if I piss people off, it's down to me. I'm not looking to discredit FB's name while in a hydra. Take that as you will.

-Vedith

Being serious isn't a bad thing. It just threw me off guard, so I'm not sure how to read you.

[lilith2013]

Diamond: There are two scum factions, so even if you're town, both factions could be jumping on you as an easy target.

Vedith, that is what I'm saying. I don't think you or fb particularly care about how much you post, so you quoting things separately is not suspicious. I'm agreeing with you.

[lilith2013]

He didn't say only if I were scum. He said EVEN if I was scum.

Who are you referring to?

[lilith2013]

I'm a bit busy right now, sharky, but I'll answer you in a sec.

Also, you answered your own question, at least partially.

PEdit: I can look at wagons extremely well. Since there aren't a lot of actions in this game, wagons will have to be the main source of my work here.

So what's your opinion on Sharky's wagon? particularly in conjunction with yours and Diego's?

[lilith2013]

I would appreciate if duppin would post more than a measly 15 times.

Why no mention of Random (11 posts), Apricity (7 posts), ASP (4 posts), Wanderer (3 posts), or NM (3 posts)? Why do you care about duppin?

[lilith2013]

I'm a bit busy right now, sharky, but I'll answer you in a sec.

Also, you answered your own question, at least partially.

PEdit: I can look at wagons extremely well. Since there aren't a lot of actions in this game, wagons will have to be the main source of my work here.

So what's your opinion on Sharky's wagon? particularly in conjunction with yours and Diego's?

Please answer.

[lilith2013]

Vote count Day 1.5

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

Apricity

- 1 - duppin - (L-6)

DiamondSentinel

- 1 - lilith2013 - (L-6)

Diego1487

- 2 - Apricity, Not_Mafia - (L-5)

itlepip

- 1 - Sharky5x - (L-6)

My Other Head Is Scum

- 1 - A Simple Plan - (L-6)

Not_Mafia

- 1 - Diego1487 - (L-6)

Sharky5x

- 4 - randomidget, itlepip, DiamondSentinel, My Other Head Is Scum - (L-3)

Players not voting: The_Jester, Wanderer-nl

Mod notes

Not_Mafia has been prodded

Then directed towards sharky:

You say scummy things, but you are also working to help town, it seems.

Why are you voting him if you think he is working to help town?

[lilith2013]

Why were you voting him*, as you just changed your vote.

[lilith2013]

I would appreciate if duppin would post more than a measly 15 times.

Why no mention of Random (11 posts), Apricity (7 posts), ASP (4 posts), Wanderer (3 posts), or NM (3 posts)? Why do you care about duppin?

Random is another, but the other 4 have done nothing of interest, so I don't mind them for now.

.. implying that, in contrast, duppin has done something of interest? What was that?

I'm a bit busy right now, sharky, but I'll answer you in a sec.

Also, you answered your own question, at least partially.

PEdit: I can look at wagons extremely well. Since there aren't a lot of actions in this game, wagons will have to be the main source of my work here.

So what's your opinion on Sharky's wagon? particularly in conjunction with yours and Diego's?

Please answer.

I don't know who all was on it. Could you tell me that real fast?


PEdit: School had just ended, so I was afk for a sec.

Anyways, that makes sense now. That wagon looks quite scummy to me, tbh, and it almost seems like scum are trying to make me look bad. I'm not so sure about it now, but there are 2 scum factions, so that might be the case.

the VC is literally in my 376

[lilith2013]

Um..... Which wagon are you talking about? He was the first one to vote you because you refused to contribute or participate during RVS. Then he voted Apricity, who has all of one vote.

[lilith2013]

Hopping on a wagon generally implies that there are already people voting the wagonee...

[lilith2013]

Vote count Day 1.5

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

Apricity

- 1 - duppin - (L-6)

DiamondSentinel

- 1 - lilith2013 - (L-6)

Diego1487

- 2 - Apricity, Not_Mafia - (L-5)

itlepip

- 1 - Sharky5x - (L-6)

My Other Head Is Scum

- 1 - A Simple Plan - (L-6)

Not_Mafia

- 1 - Diego1487 - (L-6)

Sharky5x

- 4 - randomidget, itlepip, DiamondSentinel, My Other Head Is Scum - (L-3)

Players not voting: The_Jester, Wanderer-nl

Mod notes

Not_Mafia has been prodded

Then directed towards sharky:

You say scummy things, but you are also working to help town, it seems.

Why are you voting him if you think he is working to help town?

Why were you voting him*, as you just changed your vote.

Please answer this too.

[lilith2013]

Oops, I didn't realize I hadn't posted in so long.

My vote is still on Diamond and will stay there until I am convinced someone else is scum.

[lilith2013]

Not 100%, but there are times when I get the feeling of "how can you be so stupid that doesn't even make sense" with him. (When I'm playing mafia with my friends, that's a pretty strong indicator they're scum. I don't know how well it translates into forum mafia.)

Even if diamond is town, I would be okay lynching him at some point, if not today, because I wouldn't want town!him to face lylo if this is his playstyle. And I think scum would want someone who is mislynch bait to survive so if we don't lynch him he might survive to lylo.

[lilith2013]

Please explain why.

[lilith2013]

In regards to Not I think we have better scum suspects today

Suspects plural? Who are your scum suspects, other than Sharky?

[lilith2013]

@itlepip My reads haven't changed since the time I posted them.

Where were these reads? You've posted reads between then and now, but here you say your reads haven't changed since you posted them--I just went through your ISO and can't find anywhere where you posted these reads before this post. Can you point me to them?

Diego: I've been leaning scum on Random. Diamond is either stupid or scum. Townreading you, townlean on ASP. I was townleaning itle and MOHIS but may need to rethink that based on ASP's analysis. May scumlean Sharky based on his response to the above. Jester was pinging me but I feel better about him now (null).

[lilith2013]

He doesn't even explain why and you're ready to vote Diego?

VOTE: random

[lilith2013]

@lilith Random wants it to come off as bored townie that wants the day to end (hence 489).

Sounds like you think Random isn't town and wants to seem town.

[lilith2013]

You using the words "wants to come off as (bored) town" seems like you're saying you think he isn't actually bored town. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant wishywashyness.

[lilith2013]

Where am I being shady? Are you just saying this because I voted you?

[lilith2013]

The rest of your sentence is irrelevant wishywashyness.

It's not like his post was literally the one above mine and anyone could see the rest of the sentence, or anything.

[lilith2013]

Mainly for a reaction, however the timing of the push on me (not the push itself) was suspicious. It seems like she was worried her buddy was going to be flash wgonned and tried to set up a counter. I overexaggerated the extent of the sxumminess though.

Given that I've been scumleaning you for the past few pages, and given that you jumped on a wagon for no reason that I could see, I decided to finally vote you instead of letting my vote sit on a wagon that has long since died.

[lilith2013]

Well here was the chain of events:
Random: let's lynch somebody.
Not_mafia: Diego
Random: Yes! Diego!
votes Diego

You gave no indication that you thought Diego was scummy, and didn't ask for an explanation from NM as to why he thought Diego should be lynched. I'm not seeing an "obvious" reason for you to immediately jump on this wagon. You were voting Sharky because you were scumreading Sharky, why would you not try to push that scumread?

[lilith2013]

Deadline for Day One: (expired on 2015-11-28 15:06:00)

We kind of need to get our shit together

[lilith2013]

Unofficial votecount, since our mod is prob asleep

Apricity

- 1 - snarkysnowman - (L-6)

DiamondSentinel

- 1 - The_Jester - (L-6)

Diego1487

- 2 - Not_Mafia, randomidget - (L-5)

itlepip

- 1 - Sharky5x - (L-6)

Not_Mafia

- 1 - Diego1487 - (L-6)

randomidget

- 2 - A Simple Plan, lilith2013 - (L-5)

Sharky5x

- 2 - itlepip, My Other Head Is Scum - (L-5)

The_Jester

- 1 - DiamondSentinel - (L-6)

Not voting: Apricity, Wanderer-nl

[lilith2013]

Why was Diego's jump scummy? I pretty much agreed with what he said, Diamond's 150 was indeed a massive fence-sit. Don't know if 153 reeked of nervous scum.

[lilith2013]

Because I think he's town?

We're no longer in RVS, so why is Random voting someone if he can't even express a reason for the vote?

[lilith2013]

I still think it's scummier that random just happened to jump on the wagon as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego.

[lilith2013]

I still think it's scummier that random just happened to jump on the wagon as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego.

If you find that particular reason scummy why didn't you jump on itlepip when he did that to me?
Also,
VOTE: randomidget
Until Not_Mafia tells me why to lynch Diego.

I don't remember, it might have had something to do with me arguing at Diamond.

[lilith2013]

Yes. There is no good that can come from us figuring out who the doctor is, because we as town can't do anything to help the doctor anyway, but scum would then know who to kill. Not good.

[lilith2013]

You were at L-2 at one point, if I recall. You seem very sure that you wouldn't have been lynched when you were fairly close to being lynched. Why's that?

And why did you vote Diego as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego? Because I never got an answer to that question.

[lilith2013]

Yeah I'm getting back on this wagon too.

VOTE: Random

[lilith2013]

And why did you vote Diego as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego? Because I never got an answer to that question.

[lilith2013]

Diego was getting lynched. Maybe not the next day, but at some point. This means if scum don't lynch him they get a free night phase.

And why did you vote Diego as soon as NM said he wanted to lynch Diego? Because I never got an answer to that question.

Because we needed a consensus and I correctly guessed enough people would be willing to lynch him.

Fine. Diego flipped town so presumably there's at least one scum on one of his wagons.

First wagon: Apricity, Jester, Not_Mafia
Second wagon: Not_mafia, random, snowman (duppin), Diamond, itle, wanderer, MOHIS
Who on these wagons do you think is scum?

[lilith2013]

And why is not_mafia on both of them? NM please explain why you wanted Diego to be lynched yesterday.

[lilith2013]

Hahahahaha! Oh that's rich.

If you don't think that I'm a detriment to the town right now, then leave me for later, and what do you know? I might end up useful.

The point is that you

are

being a detriment to town. You're not making contributions and you're not trying to scumhunt, you're just like "oh yeah it's NM and MOHIS" but you didn't offer any reasons why or attempt to show evidence towards that. You're not asking questions, you're not trying to analyze anything, you're not looking for scum motives, you're just sitting there telling us you're not scum. If you're town, you can be useful today just as much as you can be useful any other time this game. If you're not useful now I really doubt you'll "end up being useful" later in the game either. You said you can analyze wagons

so do that

. Or was that a lie to get us off your back D1?

I'm just assuming that itlepup is playing Katsuki-town. I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the 2 in the games that I've played with Katsuki.

That's the only thing keeping you alive, kid. You're acting scum as all-be, but so does Katsuki. So you are surviving on that alone.

Also, how does someone being scummy in a way that was similar to someone else being scummy not equal the first person still being scummy? The two people have no relation to each other??? Like something that is scummy that one person happens to do while town, is not a towntell for other people! It's still scummy!

More to the point of this game, can you explain what about itlepip was scummy?

[lilith2013]

Well we do need to lynch him at some point if we don't want town!him representing town at endgame. Maybe not today but at some point.

[lilith2013]

Do you see a scum motivation in him very obviously not contributing to the game? I feel like if he were scum, his partner would have told him to look as town as possible & try to scumhunt, or at least not draw this much attention to himself.

[lilith2013]

Sorry, assumed you meant that DS is scum. If you didn't, can you explain your post?

[lilith2013]

Why would you claim doctor and not reveal who you healed?? Who does that help, exactly?

[lilith2013]

Town would claim who isn't ice scum here.

What does this mean?

[lilith2013]

Okay. That's what I was thinking too. We would have one person who would be confirmed not-Ice. Just confused by the way you said it.

[lilith2013]

I said, you don't speculate about the NK or talk about who the doctor is if it hasn't been revealed yet, because revealing the PR only helps scum. You already gave up the part that helps scum the most by claiming.

^^^ why would you choose randomly to heal?

[lilith2013]

Don't lump me in with random, I'm not convinced he's town.

[lilith2013]

I didn't reveal who i healed because you said it only helped scum. I healed wanderer just randomly.

You healed "randomly" as a doctor? Also, why didn't you vote NM when he CCed you?

I read NM's post as "lilith isn't ice scum because if she were ice she would push for doctor to keep quiet about confirming someone to be non-Ice." Not a CC. NM, what did you mean by that post?

[lilith2013]

Can Not Mafia say things that are more than one or two lines?

Also again I buy DS being town and would really like to not lynch him today.

You really buy that doctor claim?

[lilith2013]

You think DS is town and would fakeclaim doctor without being at L-1?

[lilith2013]

Can Not Mafia say things that are more than one or two lines?

Also again I buy DS being town and would really like to not lynch him today.

You really buy that doctor claim?

Did I say I bought the doctor claim? I just think DS is town and not that good. Really cringeworthy in fact.

You think DS is town and would fakeclaim doctor without being at L-1?

How is my question loaded? If snowman believes you're town, then he either thinks you are the doctor or you are not, and if it's the latter you were fakeclaiming. I asked him if he believed your claim. His response is "I never said I believed the claim." So if he doesn't believe the claim then he thinks you're fakeclaiming. That's a pretty straightforward conclusion to draw.

[lilith2013]

Fine. Lynch me and lose the doctor. I'm fine with it. But good riddance.

PEdit: The word fake claim if you're asking about a town-read makes it loaded.

Uh... The definition of fakeclaim is that you claim something you're not. How is that different for a townread vs. a scumread? A fakeclaim is a fakeclaim.

[lilith2013]

VOTE: snarky snowman

[lilith2013]

Snarky can you answer my questions:

1. Do you think DS is town?
2. Do you believe his claim? Why/why not?
3. If the answer to 1 is yes and 2 is no, do you think town!DS would fakeclaim doctor?

[lilith2013]

VOTE: Not_mafia

[lilith2013]

And why is not_mafia on both of [Diego's wagons]? NM please explain why you wanted Diego to be lynched [Day 1].

Please answer my question.

[lilith2013]

Idk, it just nags me when people ignore my questions.

[lilith2013]

Also I'm pretty sure he's gonna go "I wasn't actually counterclaiming, I even said that I may or may not have counterclaimed."

[lilith2013]

Where's Jester? All of his votes have been on people who flipped town except for NM. And he was super quiet D2.

[lilith2013]

There's only 3 scum left and you have 4 scum reads and like no solid town reads.

[lilith2013]

Sure. I'll talk mostly in terms of scum teams, since I don't have any super solid townreads.

NM is basically confscum.
Snarky has been pinging me pretty hard. He defended Diamond, saying he was town, then said he didn't completely believe the doctor claim. I'd like to know why he thought Diamond might fakeclaim. Also, he kept defending Diamond but never tried to redirect town onto a new wagon who he thought was scum.
Jester was pinging me D1 and I think I shouldn't have backed off that read. He's been hardcore lurking. I would put Jester and NM on opposite teams, I think.
MOHIS: at first I got good vibes, seemed like they were really making an effort to contribute; has since basically disappeared.

So my favored combinations of scum atm are NM/Snarky/Jester and NM/Snarky/MOHIS. If the former, I would think Snarky/Jester are fire and NM is ice. If the latter, I think MOHIS/Snarky are fire. I could also see itle/Sharky as fire scum. For players who scumread each other for half the game, you guys sure are on a lot of wagons together.

[lilith2013]

Are you serious right now?

Counterclaim, Diamond, doctor. Ringing any bells?

[lilith2013]

And why is not_mafia on both of [Diego's wagons]? NM please explain why you wanted Diego to be lynched [Day 1].

Please answer my question.

NM I'm gonna keep quoting myself until you answer. I want an explanation.

[lilith2013]

Also I didn't see Titus hint doctor until after you did. If she hinted doctor first please indicate in which post she did so.

[lilith2013]

@snarky: how is Sharky definitely scum and NM only probably scum on your readslist? What makes you more sure that sharky is scum than somebody who cced doctor?

[lilith2013]

Gahhhhh I wanted all my questions answered first

[lilith2013]

Who is that question directed to?

[lilith2013]

Welp. This is my first time playing with more than one scum faction. I'll need to look over my list again then.

[lilith2013]

Could you explain why he's fire and not ice? Who do you think ice is?

[lilith2013]

Thanks itle.

And Sharky has significantly more content than not mafia which is why I can have a stronger read. Tell me, how was diamond more conf scum than nm yesterday?

Who is that question directed to?

Still wondering who the question is directed to.

And how is NM not confscum for you after CCing a flipped doctor??? Like how can you say that anyone else is more confirmed than that.

[lilith2013]

IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER:

Fine. You've set this up yourself...


I'm the doctor. I healed someone (not revealing) last night, thus the comment.

Nope

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

lillith is not ice scum

lillith is not ice scum

It's like you read my role PM.
we should heal each other tonight.

You don't need to cover for me though.

I may or may not have claimed doctor

I didn't CC doctor

Pedit: What kind of VT says "I may or may not have claimed doctor" while we are lynching someone that claims doctor?

Titus was hinting doctor, I was covering for her

Nah, I didn't hint doctor until you did NM.

[lilith2013]

So explain again how that wasn't a counterclaim

Because Titus said nothing about being doctor until after you had softclaimed

[lilith2013]

Titus. Did. Not. Claim. Until. After. You. Had. Already. Softclaimed.

[lilith2013]

[lilith2013]

What do you call announcing "lilith is not ice scum," then?

[lilith2013]

Nope

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

lillith is not ice scum

I may or may not have claimed doctor

How is that a claim exactly?
Saying "I may or may not have claimed doctor" is not claiming doctor...

Neither is voting someone for claiming doctor

Neither is saying that someone is not scum...

So again, show me where NM claims.

-Vedith

In context it was more than a softclaim, because Diamond had just claimed doctor. If he had said it out of the blue, then sure, that might not be a claim per se. But telling us that "lilith is not ice scum" without any reasoning other than "I may or may not have claimed doctor"

while Diamond was being lynched for claiming doctor

(and I would say NM's softclaim caused about 30% of the wagon on Diamond)? That about sums up to a claim. Regardless of Titus' alignment, NM is basically confirmed scum and I don't understand how you don't see that.

[lilith2013]

I was covering for Titus

Can you say anything else

Like maybe be useful and give us reads before you're lynched or something.

[lilith2013]

Can we lynch him already

@mod: can we get a VC and a prod on jester

[lilith2013]

Okay MOHIS, explain why you are voting NM if you don't think he claimed doctor.

[lilith2013]

Seriously, where is jester?

leaning MOHIS or Snarky for one of the remaining scum

[lilith2013]

Or both, need to reread

[lilith2013]

Yes, and I'm not totally sure if I think both of you are scum. I'm waiting to hear more from jester, because I don't want to rule him out yet.

[lilith2013]

Okay MOHIS, explain why you are voting NM if you don't think he claimed doctor.

The most recent thing:

One head went and voted NM thinking it was a hammer but your other head kept defending him, saying that he never claimed doctor. The only two people who didn't immediately place NM as confscum for CCing were Snarky and you. So I think one of you two is Fire with NM.

[lilith2013]

Sorry, finals week hitting me hard. I'm inclined to think itle is town, and you haven't left so great of an impression on me Snarky. Where did MOHIS go? I'd like a response to my last post.

[lilith2013]

Are you even bothering to read this game properly, or are you just posting everything you can find that supports your predisposition to scumread me?

[lilith2013]

[quote="In post 240, lilith2013"when you say "I don't scumhunt. ever," that really limits your capabilities.

not what he say[/quote]

Um actually, that is what he said:

I will not scumhunt because I'm terrible at it, lilith. I know my strengths and weaknesses, and scumhunting, on D1 especially, is not one of my strengths. I do better with reasoning through people's actions and claims. Stop asking a fish to climb a tree. It won't happen.

[lilith2013]

when you say "I don't scumhunt. ever," that really limits your capabilities.

not what he say

Um actually, that is what he said:

I will not scumhunt because I'm terrible at it, lilith. I know my strengths and weaknesses, and scumhunting, on D1 especially, is not one of my strengths. I do better with reasoning through people's actions and claims. Stop asking a fish to climb a tree. It won't happen.

EBWOP. Quote tag fail due to koggz' missing quote tag

[lilith2013]

How was itle's attacking Diamond weak but everyone else attacking him wasn't?

[lilith2013]

why did he self-vote?

[lilith2013]

I think so........

[lilith2013]

good game all

[lilith2013]

If it's any consolation, you had me completely fooled, itle.