Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[pisskop]

Votecount 2.08

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Burning Crystal

- (4) Aneninen, Mad King Ashnard, chilledtea, davesaz

kaintepes

- (2) xtoxm, Almost50

Aneninen

- (2) acryon, Burning Crystal

Almost50

- (1) Ranger

chilledtea

- (1) kaintepes

Ranger

- (1) kop

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Not Voting

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With 11 Alive it takes 6 to Lynch!
Day 02 Deadline is (expired on 2016-03-21 11:30:00).

[chilledtea]

UNVOTE:

I am still not sure. But they make sense in a way.
Like I still don't like their reasoning regarding their assumption of 2 kills. But ultimately it was indeed a vote on the basis of a couple of posts, and in my experience it is best to wait for some time.

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxm, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

[Almost50]

No offense, but what is the point of this post?

I'm saying I'm town reading BC AND Anen and do not wish for either to be lynched today. I could check on either by night to verify they're town. Need I phrase that any clearer?

Although I know you're not going to announce your target (nor do I want you to reply to this beyond acknowledged), I think checking me is the best for the town.

Well, acknowledged. I still haven't decided which of you two I will be protecting/investigating tonight though.

And if you want me to be on the lynching wagon, you need to come up with someone else. I'm not lynching Anen today.

[acryon]

No offense, but what is the point of this post?

I'm saying I'm town reading BC AND Anen and do not wish for either to be lynched today. I could check on either by night to verify they're town. Need I phrase that any clearer?

That's kind of a big ask for the town to not pursue the two biggest wagons for the sake of a possible investigation by you if and only if you even live, which seems unlikely.

[davesaz]

@Almost,

Me being protected is also frankly pretty easy to deduce.

First, Kuroi likely jailed his scumread.
Jailing a bodyguard claim in this setup is stupid, like I mentioned.
So, I was jailed.

There's a missing kill (which I explained above)

That leaves either a) both scum kills shot the jailor or b) I was shot and protected

Both scum shooting the jailor with terrible reads makes zero sense.

Thus, I was shot and protected.

Except if we have WW then both teams have RB's. One of them could have RB'd the other team's killer.
Or you could be scum, and jailed, but you knew it was coming so your partner killed Kuroi.

The lack of a kill + probable MB + Kuroi scumreading you and presumably jailing you does

not

clear you as town.
I could imagine a newer player making that logic mistake, but a hydra of two very experienced players?

[Almost50]

That's kind of a big ask for the town to not pursue the two biggest wagons for the sake of a possible investigation by you if and only if you even live, which seems unlikely.

Fine. Then you go ahead and lynch either of them w/o me. I can't stop you, but I'm not voting people from near the top of my list. I mean, I have SIX other players I could go for before I vote BC, and Anen is even higher than them on my list.

[KainTepes]

WE NEED TO START LYNCHING CHILLEDTEA,, HE IS SCUMMY,,

[Burning Crystal]

@Dave, That's not the argument I was making. Did I say I was confirmed town? No. I didn't. The only reason this is an issue is people were arguing that my intelligence was a scumslip.

Sure, a kill block might have happened though.

Is it likely? No. With you crumbing and Almost crumbing, that's likely where the blocks went.

Being in jail and having the wagons like they are just makes me likely town and not a scumslip like scum are pushing.

[Ranger]

1288 is a good post.
I don't think Burning Crystal is groupscum.
There's the obvious chance of Serial Killer, but definitely not groupscum.

[Ranger]

I am still not sure. But they make sense in a way.
Like I still don't like their reasoning regarding their assumption of 2 kills. But ultimately it was indeed a vote on the basis of a couple of posts, and in my experience it is best to wait for some time.

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm. I will set aside BC for now.

All of ^this is me right now.
(The only part I cut was the acryon townread.)

VOTE: Kop.

[davesaz]

I'm saying I'm town reading BC AND Anen and do not wish for either to be lynched today.

Any particular reason you're town reading Aneninen?

[davesaz]

The only reason this is an issue is people were arguing that my intelligence was a scumslip.

Is that just Aneninen, or was there someone else?

[davesaz]

I've had thoughts of BC as town for quite a while, but needed to get a better handle on the motivation for setup talk.

VOTE: Aneninen
I was going to wait for answers but then realized I'm on the tail of the day plus I might be busy later tonight.
Fireworks are more fun anyway.

[Almost50]

I'm saying I'm town reading BC AND Anen and do not wish for either to be lynched today.

Any particular reason you're town reading Aneninen?

As I said, I tried to read the thread from the beginning under the assumption Anen was scum. It didn't fit and I couldn't bring myself to buy it no matter how hard I tried to force it. Anen just can't be a member of any scum team.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

[Aneninen]

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

Apart from the facts you've refused to move your vote and your gameplay is very different to the town-play I know...

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

You've distanced yourself from your... other head. Seems legit.

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

So, have you just assumed a three-member scum team? And you have that idea because...?
Also, six scumreads. Wow.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame them for your inability to scumhunt.

Who else is vote-parking? Oh look, BurningCrystal and ...Acryon. Isn't it interesting?

Unchanged except for the maybe-need for one extra person as scum. {acryon, Kop, Almost50, Burning Crystal} is where I'm looking at. So if Almost50 were removed, then I'd assume either we're in a 3-scum setup or I'm townreading one scum.

Actually I've started thinking she's town.
Firstly, compare this read to BurningCrystal's. They seemed to know a 3-player scumteam (Aneninen, ChilledTea, MKA), whereas Ranger was talking about possibilities.
Seconly, because of reasons I'm not allowed to detail.

[Aneninen]

Isn't it strange that you're still bringing that up whereas you're BLATANTLY ignoring that others have made similar speculations. Eg. BurningCrystal's Setup post was absolutely not scummy, was it?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

Apart from the facts you've refused to move your vote and your gameplay is very different to the town-play I know...

So you're suspicious of things titus has done. Lovely.

You've distanced yourself from your... other head. Seems legit.

I've got Anen and MKA as scum with Chilledtea, Ranger, Kain and Kop as PoE possible scum.

So, have you just assumed a three-member scum team? And you have that idea because...?
Also, six scumreads. Wow.

@MKA, Bullshit on us starting it. We had a scumread on you. That doesn't justify a petulant attitude where scumhunting stops. Yet, that's perfectly convenient for you. Vote park someone you have a history with and blame them for your inability to scumhunt.

Who else is vote-parking? Oh look, BurningCrystal and ...Acryon. Isn't it interesting?

Unchanged except for the maybe-need for one extra person as scum. {acryon, Kop, Almost50, Burning Crystal} is where I'm looking at. So if Almost50 were removed, then I'd assume either we're in a 3-scum setup or I'm townreading one scum.

Actually I've started thinking she's town.
Firstly, compare this read to BurningCrystal's. They seemed to know a 3-player scumteam (Aneninen, ChilledTea, MKA), whereas Ranger was talking about possibilities.
Seconly, because of reasons I'm not allowed to detail.

[acryon]

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Because you were the first to run with it, as I said. Some people can't help being followers. You, on the other hand, know better than to lead people there.

Some clear hyperbole from me, but I think things like my 1234 make clear that I'm, not here to tunnel or lurk.

Apart from the facts you've refused to move your vote and your gameplay is very different to the town-play I know...

You'll see in most games that I make mention of the fact that my playstyle adjusts based on the town culture, not alignment. And also keeping my vote on the same person =/= tunneling.

[Aneninen]

DID YOU READ MY POST ON CHILLEDTEA,, I TOOK A LONG TIME TO WRITE MY OPINOIN INTO WORDS,, WHAT DOY OU THINK???

Kt , you want to sort Anen and annoy your scumread?
*points to Anen wagon*
I don't bite if you're town.

And I'm accused of tunnelling.
Dafuq.

Do you know what's going to hurt?
Even if you and Acryon manage to lynch me, you'll look terrible after my flip. Your plan, namely, quicklynch me before I kick in crumbled into dust long ago. My flip will show that I haven't been lying.

You don't think Burning Crystal is scum?

Nope. I think they're leaning town. KT is my top scum read actually. I think all his posts are meant to distract and shed doubts.

Why? This goes for both of the questions.

@KT, Because he's more concerned with his own hide than scumhunting. He basically yells poop at any argument he disagrees with and OMGUSes anything with a pulse. A wagon with myself, Almost and Dave (all pretty likely town) voted him. The response was to immediately wagon our slot. Anen hasn't done much in giving reads or propelling the game forward. All he's done is cry scumslip and attack credibility. He's letting others attempt to fill in what this mysterious scumslip is (hint: it doesn't exist). That's what Anen and MKA have done all game long. They've just sat back and let others fill in the blanks.

For a U-turning like that people get killed in civilized galaxies if it happens IRL. YOU've been discrediting me all the time and you're accusing me of doing so.
Also, you named the people voting for me wrong.
One other thing. You've been doing basically two things. (1) telling how scummy I (and MKA) am by repeating the same pigeon poop over and over and (2) speculating over the Setup, which is a well-known scum strategy to look like doing some scumhunting instead of doing so. (Titus, I bet you remember JK9++)

They say they are vanilla town as well. Considering that, unlike you, they should have zero information regarding setups. Instead they are rolling in setup guesswork. I just can't see vanilla giving a damn about setup, unless it actually mattered.

^^
So, ChilledTea has too noticed point (2) above.

CHILLEDTEA IS SCUM!!!!!!! VOTE CHILLEDTEA,,
VOTE: ChilledTEACUP

Why?

@Almost,

Me being protected is also frankly pretty easy to deduce.

First, Kuroi likely jailed his scumread.
Jailing a bodyguard claim in this setup is stupid, like I mentioned.
So, I was jailed.

There's a missing kill (which I explained above)

That leaves either a) both scum kills shot the jailor or b) I was shot and protected

Both scum shooting the jailor with terrible reads makes zero sense.

Thus, I was shot and protected.

c) You wanted to send the Nightkill and Kuroi stopped it.
However, the whole post is speculative and un-confirmable. But leaving out that possibility stands out blatantly.

@Almost,

There's a spot on the Anen wagon waiting for you.

Although I know you're not going to announce your target (nor do I want you to reply to this beyond acknowledged), I think checking me is the best for the town.
:nod:

Just lynch them Tomorrow if they manage to get me lynched Today. DO NOT FORGET sentences like that.

That's kind of a big ask for the town to

not pursue the two biggest wagons for the sake of a possible investigation

by you if and only if you even live, which seems unlikely.

Notice.
At that point BurningCrystal had 3 votes, Kain and me 2–2 votes.
That's how misrepresentation of the facts work.

1288 is a good post.
I don't think Burning Crystal is groupscum.
There's the obvious chance of Serial Killer, but definitely not groupscum.

No, that was a speculative post. They act as if they were scumhunting but apart from tunnelling and speculating they're doing nothing.

I've had thoughts of BC as town for quite a while, but needed to get a better handle on the motivation for setup talk.

VOTE: Aneninen
I was going to wait for answers but then realized I'm on the tail of the day plus I might be busy later tonight.
Fireworks are more fun anyway.

What sort of answers were you waiting for?
How did you get your BurningCrystal townread after this post:

The lack of a kill + probable MB + Kuroi scumreading you and presumably jailing you does not clear you as town.I could imagine a newer player making that logic mistake, but a hydra of two very experienced players?

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Because you were the first to run with it, as I said. Some people can't help being followers. You, on the other hand, know better than to lead people there.

Wow-wow-wow, are you someone from our government? You're spreading bullshyt in the similar way.
This ALONE shows that you're NOT interested in reading the game, forming reads, you're simply after me because you're after me period.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand let's ignore the fact that I was the one who started scumreading you on Day1.
Had I done something similar you'd done, I'd have accused of OMGUS-ing by now.

This game would be a perfect illustration for an encyclopaedia for "Double standards".

[acryon]

That's kind of a big ask for the town to

not pursue the two biggest wagons for the sake of a possible investigation

by you if and only if you even live, which seems unlikely.

Notice.
At that point BurningCrystal had 3 votes, Kain and me 2–2 votes.
That's how misrepresentation of the facts work.

If you were reading the thread you would know better than to suggest you and KT had equal wagons based on overall sentiment. Just because the votes haven't been placed, it is clear you and BC were the main two.

[acryon]

Because you are the one that decided to run with it and entertain it. Responsible thing to do as town there is not speculate, because it takes us down a path that may be irrelevant. Instead you seem to fully embrace it without question.

Erm, I had one single post about it. And some players jumped onto me because of that. Others have posted plenty of things about the same topic. Your answer still doesn't explain why you don't bother about all those players.

Because you were the first to run with it, as I said. Some people can't help being followers. You, on the other hand, know better than to lead people there.

Wow-wow-wow, are you someone from our government? You're spreading bullshyt in the similar way.
This ALONE shows that you're NOT interested in reading the game, forming reads, you're simply after me because you're after me period.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand let's ignore the fact that I was the one who started scumreading you on Day1.
Had I done something similar you'd done, I'd have accused of OMGUS-ing by now.

This game would be a perfect illustration for an encyclopaedia for "Double standards".

Maybe that's because one of us is scum and the other is town. That tends to be a good reason to treat people differently.

[Almost50]

Why? This goes for both of the questions.

Let's forget about "gut feelings" for a minute, ok?

WHY would scum!BC point out a missing second kill? Why not keep it under wraps until N2 when we get surprised by the "fact" we have two killers not just one?

Also it does add up. I mean if she was scum she probably WOULD have speculated/anticipated she was going to be jailed, so why would she send a kill herself?

The answer to the second question is: She's the SK, which brings us back to the first question: WHY out herself to town? Hell, why make herself so obvious to the SCUM TEAM??

P.S. I keep referring to the BC slot in singular form. I hope that doesn't bother them.

Now as for KT: He didn't st○7rt using caps until later into the game. When he did it started to show many of us were getting annoyed with it (and the fact he didn't know how to quote properly). Eversince he decided it was best to do just that.

Also everything he posts is like .. hollow.. shallow.. empty.. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it adds absolutely nothing to the game. If I were to post like that I wouldn't last for an hour, so why give him a pass for it is really bugging me.

Overall, "something" is not right with KT. Was it the distancing with EE early into the game? Was the buddying attempt with BC? Was it the fact he called them Titus rather than Burning or BC? Is it the fact he claimed to be an aggressive player and has yet to show any sort of objective aggressiveness? Is it bc he automatically scum reads anyone who scum reads him? Is it EVRYTHING I said and some more?? I simply don't feel good about this slot.

Also, my top scum reads are KT, followed by both Kop & chilled. KT is voting chilled, and chilled is on Kop, while KT is being voted by xtoxm whom I'm reading as town. If all 3 suspects were at the same level I would've still voted the one being voted by a town read of mine rather than either of the two currently being voted by suspects of mine. However, this isn't even the case as KT IS my top scum read, so that's why I'm being a little stubborn there. I could go for Kop as a compromise if KT is a no-no kind of thing, but someone has to come up with some new invention for me to vote outside of those 3 today.

[acryon]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning CDT.

Happy with my vote.

[Ranger]

Anen, you have a few points in 1315/1318 that I'm pretty sure even I could defend against, and I'm not Burning Crystal. I'll let them respond to them, but needless to say: I don't think you're right, here.

[pisskop]

tg