Mini 1782 Game Over

[Titus]

Yeah, is no one going to comment on my thoughts on Maxous?

[Ircher]

Vote Count - Day 2 VC #6

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (0) -
Huntress (1) - Max
Froot (0) -
Johnny (0) -
Max (1) - Titus
FA_Q2 (1) - Plain
Shaddow (0) -
Plain (0) -
Lowell (1) - FA_Q2
Rosh (2) - Huntress, Lowell
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (5) - Shaddow, Froot, Mhsmith, Johnny, Rosh

Deadline

Day 2 will end on May 2 5:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-05-02 17:30:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Shaddowez requested replacement.

[JohnnyFarrar]

VOTE: Max lego

[FA_Q2]

Faq's 1395 seems rather fabricated to me, and trying to snowball a wagon would be a something I'd expect from scum at this time of day. Lowell was right when he suggested his general unhelpfulness up to this point makes him the easy wagon to jump on, so his would be a good choice for scum looking to make one of the wagons the frontrunner.

0The interesting thing about this statement (and your vote) is that applies equally to what you just pulled. Further, you avoided anything I have actually stated, utterly ignored the case I put forth and essentially said I am scum because I voted loewll. Not even a question or a challenge for me to answer.

Very poor vote :/

[FA_Q2]

Not very keen on Lowells push on Rosh for asking him about his stance on clumsy. It feels like he is misrepresenting rosh and it is a rather weak reason. It does not help that he makes the proclamation rosh is scum and then does not continue to engage with rosh after he responds. Rather, he posts that he would have killed Nos if he were scum. Why go there and ignore Rosh's push back?

No but seriously if I were scum I definitely would have killed Nos. So yeah she's right about that.

But anyway, I'm not, and didn't, and actually the fact that she thought about this in this way says more about her scumminess than mine.

Why?

Why you 'definitely would have killed Nos?' This statement really does not make sense.

VOTE: lowell

Eh, what can I say. I was feeling truthful at the moment.

Still, try to see through the awkwardness of it and to my obvtowniness. I know this is asking a lot. Be strong here.

That is hard to do when you continue to avoid addressing things that have been said to you.

[Froot Loop]

To point out that scum/town neighbor wouldn't come out. And if town, they should esp not come out.

I just don't see that motive in this:

The possibility that her neighbour being scum is pretty high after her NK, imo. I doubt the neighbour would come out, as either alignment.

I would read this and think that the main objective was to emphasise how likely it is that the neighbour is scum. There's no reasoning given why you think it's unlikely the neighbour would come out, unless it's because they're scum.

What if there was something useful in the thread? This kind of conversation is making it harder for a town player to contribute and I think the probative value of this conversation is nil so it's not worth it. It's creating and cultivating an aura of suspicion which is unnecessary. I think that's something which is often done by scum players.

@Titus - I agree that Max is still scummy. He's voted for Huntress before so this is going back to a previous thought. He seems kind of apathetic and isn't responding much to the suspicion on him. This is subjective, so I don't think it's AI, but it's not doing anything to change my opinion.

on a related note, given that we're talking about Nos (sort of), does anyone want to claim being her neighbor? It's obvious that someone was her neighbor;

I haven't played much with neighbor mechanics before

, so I don't know if it does or doesn't make sense for anyone to step forward on that front. If you presume she was an

SPK

, then it seems reasonable that she may have said something interesting or useful in neighbor chat that's worth sharing with the board.

(my bold)

We just came out of a game with like 8 million neighbour mechanics. That didn't give you an idea of how they can be played? What's an SPK?

[FA_Q2]

^do you think he is playing at not understanding then?

[Froot Loop]

Maybe he hasn't played with neighbours in many other games but there were so many neighbourhoods in that game that I came out of it with a feeling of loads of different ways they can be played in different situations. The neighbourhoods were a little bit different than it would be in this game (everyone was in a neighbourhood, some neighbourhoods/PTs which were created were public, so people knew who was going into them.) He was also a mason in that game and had two scum members in his neighbourhood.

(It literally finished today - Micro 600)

He's definitely got an idea of how neighbour mechanics work and how people can play in them. My reaction is that he presented this as an excuse to question or introduce the idea of the neighbour claiming.

[Titus]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Roshar]

I would read it and think, ' I better not come out'.

I didn't consider the value of the conversation, mainly because value to me would mean a PR result. One they wouldn't get at that point. If there's another form of value to be gained, please enlighten me.

No, this kind of conversation is a realistic view of how a neighbor would be viewed imo. I didn't follow it up with a, 'don't come out if you're a town neighbor ' but it was clear I thought that wasn't clever.

Except I did provide a reason why town neighbor wouldn't come out.

It's exactly the same reason that scum neighbor wouldn't come out.

The Nos NK.

While you don't think the neighbor would be considered suspicious, others clearly thought so. Your refusal to consider that others can have a different opinion is really frustrating. I've clearly explained to you how I came to that thought process and you said it was subjective and that we disagree. Then you return again to point A that this is done by scum. If I was scum and neighbor was town, I'd hope they'd come out to throw shade at them. Not emphasize the fact that I think they'd be considered suspicious.

Like, if this was day three, and Nos had used their ability, then I'd probably think it's okay to take the risk of coming out as town neighbor with Nos' results. But I can't see the value of taking that risk with no results.

[mhsmith0]

Maybe he hasn't played with neighbours in many other games but there were so many neighbourhoods in that game that I came out of it with a feeling of loads of different ways they can be played in different situations. The neighbourhoods were a little bit different than it would be in this game (everyone was in a neighbourhood, some neighbourhoods/PTs which were created were public, so people knew who was going into them.) He was also a mason in that game and had two scum members in his neighbourhood.

(It literally finished today - Micro 600)

He's definitely got an idea of how neighbour mechanics work and how people can play in them. My reaction is that he presented this as an excuse to question or introduce the idea of the neighbour claiming.

Fwiw that was my first neighbor game, and it was anything but normal. I'm not sure the "everyone is in a neighborhood and this is known" situation compares well to a closed format game with a neighbor. I'd thought it interesting if nos had something interesting to say, and if so that might be useful to put into thread. As far as stuff like "how likely is it the other neighbor is a town pr", "how likely is it the other neighbor was mafia", etc. I don't really know.

I'd say it's plausible that nos was killed by a mafia neighbor, but it's hardly a given. One if those "suspicious but not condemning" sorts of things, at least off the top of my head.

As far as whether neighbor should claim, I thought it a reasonable question to ask.

Ps "spk" = strong player kill, I.e. The mafia goes after someone good in night one barring effective pr hunting. Since I haven't played with most of the people here (loop in completed game, I think no one else in completed games), I don't know how well nos compares to the rest of the group.

Pps im rereading, will try and have more useful thoughts tonight.

[a plain farmer]

I'll try to comment on some other things tomorrow, but for now I'll address a couple things directed to me:

Faq's 1395 seems rather fabricated to me, and trying to snowball a wagon would be a something I'd expect from scum at this time of day. Lowell was right when he suggested his general unhelpfulness up to this point makes him the easy wagon to jump on, so his would be a good choice for scum looking to make one of the wagons the frontrunner.

What is about FAQ's post which makes you think it was fabricated?

The way FAQ contends that Lowell is scummy is rather implicit and oblique. "Why go there and ignore Rosh's push back?" and "This statement really does not make sense." are things he could say to let readers piece together in their own minds why Lowell is scum, giving FAQ the benefit of the doubt, and allowing him to say that he's town and he was merely a little bit lazy with that post.

Then consider the circumstances: the day is winding down, his vote made Lowell the largest wagon, and Lowell is a rather easy vote at the moment. It reeks to me of subtly trying to direct the town towards a mislynch.

0The interesting thing about this statement (and your vote) is that applies equally to what you just pulled. Further, you avoided anything I have actually stated, utterly ignored the case I put forth and essentially said I am scum because I voted loewll. Not even a question or a challenge for me to answer.

Very poor vote :/

I did leave you a thing to chew on:

I'm still interested in the answer to this question, btw, even though he seems to have moved on:

@Fack: Is the Johnny vote because of the "threatening"? And is it really worse in your eyes than what you saw Titus doing?

[mhsmith0]

Since it sucks to be ignored...

I think Maxous is flailing scum here, looking for things to attack. He sees that his initial offer on Lowell is gaining little traction, so he sheep's the first case stated by someone else on Huntress. His big deal is Huntress didn't comment. Yet, Maxous completely ignored the allegation by Lowell that Roshar was fishing for votes on him.

I dunno to be honest. This is starting to turn into the recursive commentary...

Huntress doesn't comment on it
Max doesn't comment on it except to criticize huntress for not commenting on it
You.. actually you had commented on it, and are now also criticizing max for not commenting on it.

I mean, I guess I can see the argument you're actually making here about just looking for something to attack. Especially in the context of max specifically avoiding getting into the weeds on the player he'd been voting, which does seem pretty odd (and specifically more odd than huntress posting essentially a "I'll be back later" note).

Max, what is your opinion on the allegations made by Lowell against roshar?

@smith - I'm surprised you didn't get what Roshar was talking about. I think this post is a bit shade-throwy. You're implying (I think) that Roshar's post doesn't have any content.

What do you think Roshar was talking about? I didn't know what she was talking about since she basically said that she was NOT talking about Lowell. Maybe it was just a question of if nos pr slipped/crumbed? It wasn't clear to me, but you're representing that it was clear to you.

As far as whether it had content, Iirc the issue was it pinged me a bit that she was possibly trying to get us to think about nos's death in a particular way (although it was more of a guess than anything tangible... And I'm not even sure where she wanted us to go with it even if it was an attempt to influence thinking). So I was trying to get her to explain where she was going with that a bit more.

[Froot Loop]

@smith - That's fair enough, there were so many neighbourhoods in that game it is different but what I was getting at is the way different people responded to being in a neighbourhood. I refused to give my colour (each neighbourhood had a colour,) for example, while other players were more open about it. There was also discussion about the implications of the neighbourhoods so I would have thought that would contribute to an understanding of the mechanic.

As far as the PR/scum likelihood, I don't know either.

About the Roshar comment, I understood that she was saying that maybe Nos crumbed.

@Roshar - I'm not questioning your opinion and I'm not questioning that the neighbour could be viewed with suspicion. I'm questioning that this has been mentioned in the thread three times and it's speculation and won't lead anywhere. I don't think speculation is helpful and I'm more worried about it when it fosters suspicion because that's what I think is done by scum players.

I didn't consider the value of the conversation, mainly because value to me would mean a PR result. One they wouldn't get at that point. If there's another form of value to be gained, please enlighten me.

Do you mean about the conversation in the neighbourhood? You want me to try and come up with possible valuable things that could have been said?

If I was scum and neighbor was town, I'd hope they'd come out to throw shade at them. Not emphasize the fact that I think they'd be considered suspicious.

WIFOM

I really don't want to get bogged down with more speculation because I don't think it's helpful.

[Froot Loop]

Titus, I responded to you as well

[Maxous]

@Titus - I agree that Max is still scummy. He's voted for Huntress before so this is going back to a previous thought. He seems kind of apathetic and isn't responding much to the suspicion on him. This is subjective, so I don't think it's AI, but it's not doing anything to change my opinion.

well, what do you want.
I'm trying to explain to people to lynch the lurk-scum but everyone is being a backseat driver nitpicking

how

i'm trying to push the read.
Somebody explain why they think she's town then.

Max, what is your opinion on the allegations made by Lowell against roshar?

roshar is still town, response still makes me believe that.
not sure about lowell, i'll come back to him.

sidenote: If Lowell is town I think APF is scum based on APF's vote earlier. Just my feeling.

[Maxous]

lemme put this way.

I didn't get a town-read on Kain Tepes' posting.
I thought Jeanne11's posting was poor.
I don't like Huntress' posting.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Not very keen on Lowells push on Rosh for asking him about his stance on clumsy. It feels like he is misrepresenting rosh and it is a rather weak reason. It does not help that he makes the proclamation rosh is scum and then does not continue to engage with rosh after he responds. Rather, he posts that he would have killed Nos if he were scum. Why go there and ignore Rosh's push back?

No but seriously if I were scum I definitely would have killed Nos. So yeah she's right about that.

But anyway, I'm not, and didn't, and actually the fact that she thought about this in this way says more about her scumminess than mine.

Why?

Why you 'definitely would have killed Nos?' This statement really does not make sense.

VOTE: lowell

Eh, what can I say. I was feeling truthful at the moment.

Still, try to see through the awkwardness of it and to my obvtowniness. I know this is asking a lot. Be strong here.

Ew don't tell people what to think about you.

Y'all circlejerked more NKA this last page huh? Did anybody learn anything?

Let's get this Max wagon going.

[Titus]

Titus, I responded to you as well

Where?

[Froot Loop]

@Titus - I agree that Max is still scummy. He's voted for Huntress before so this is going back to a previous thought. He seems kind of apathetic and isn't responding much to the suspicion on him. This is subjective, so I don't think it's AI, but it's not doing anything to change my opinion.

[Dierfire]

We continue to search for a replacement for shaddowez. If we still have no replacement by tomorrow I will start sending requests to players that I have previously observed replacing into Mini Normal games. If you have suggestions for players who should be on that list, please send them to us!

I think we got a replacement now. Deadline stays as-is unless the replacement asks for extra time.
~Ircher

[Roshar]

@Roshar - I'm not questioning your opinion and I'm not questioning that the neighbour could be viewed with suspicion. I'm questioning that this has been mentioned in the thread three times and it's speculation and won't lead anywhere. I don't think speculation is helpful and I'm more worried about it when it fosters suspicion because that's what I think is done by scum players.

I wouldn't call it speculation. I'd call it an association. That's where we disagree.

I didn't consider the value of the conversation, mainly because value to me would mean a PR result. One they wouldn't get at that point. If there's another form of value to be gained, please enlighten me.

Do you mean about the conversation in the neighbourhood? You want me to try and come up with possible valuable things that could have been said?

I want you to back up your idea that there is some value to be had that doesn't involve a PR result. Hypothetical situations. I'm taking into consideration that I've never played a game that involved a neighbor and that there may be value I haven't considered

If I was scum and neighbor was town, I'd hope they'd come out to throw shade at them. Not emphasize the fact that I think they'd be considered suspicious.

WIFOM

I really don't want to get bogged down with more speculation because I don't think it's helpful.

Neither do I really. But you kept asking persistently about this. So, meh.

[Roshar]

Max, what is your opinion on the allegations made by Lowell against roshar?

Yo,

Mhs

, what is your opinion on the

allegation

(singular) Lowell made against me?

You've been stating recently that you've found me off for one reason or another, and you've stated you'll embark on a re-read of my ISO. You haven't held true with that.

sidenote: If Lowell is town I think APF is scum based on APF's vote earlier. Just my feeling.

@

Maxous

, can you explain how you came to this conclusion.

Also, can you respond to my post 1417.


@

Titus

1419 was for you.


@Lowell

1423, please.

[Roshar]

well, what do you want.
I'm trying to explain to people to lynch the lurk-scum but everyone is being a backseat driver nitpicking

how

i'm trying to push the read.
Somebody explain why they think she's town then.

It's not a matter of thinking she's town. Just that there's so little from that her absence reads actual inactivity. And it can look really opportunistic to point at her.

[Titus]

@Roshar, the him in my post in 1417 is Clumsy. Poor pronoun usage. Context of my post should make sense now.