Newbie 1707 - Game Over

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 1.4

KaladinStormblessed (0) -
Simoyd (0) -
AlpacaAlpaca (0) -
SethYazura (3) - Simoyd, wgeurts, AlpacaAlpaca
Murph (0) -
Hoppic (1) - RedCoyote
Raskolnikov (0) -
wgeurts (0) -

L-1

RedCoyote (4) - Raskolnikov, Hoppic, Murph, KaladinStormblessed

Not Voting: SethYazura

Activity Notes: Raskolnikov and Murph are V/LA until Monday

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Tuesday May 31st at 7:30 pm PDT which is in (expired on 2016-05-31 19:30:00)

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

RC is an awful lynch, look how everyone has piled on without explanation of why he is actually scum. Hell, just lurched at it opportunistically!
Seth has actually got cases on him and provides information regardless which way he flips. What does RC have? I haven't seen a single case and the way people are piling on passively is dodgy.

You won't like this as you don't seem to like pre-flip analysis, but as it is I don't want to lynch seth because the only partner I really see him having is redcoyote, and in that case I'd be lynching red instead (who could potentially be with several).
As it is I don't actually know if red is definitely scum, and what makes me hesitate is that he's against hoppic (and somewhat kaladin) who happen to be the two people left I have almost no read on, and I can't make a realistic comparison yet with the content imbalance.
You may think it's TvT but at this point that would mean 1-2 of my strong townreads are straight up wrong and I really doubt that.

[wgeurts]

Hoppic or one of the lurkers are possible partners too.
Or anyone playing a good game and bussing.

Pre-flip is a big no, always.

[Raskolnikov]

I find hoppic/seth hard to buy, and I'd put past most newbies any half-decent day 1 bussing without daytalk.
The only people I'd think are capable would be red who's defending him anyways and the obv pick for partner, and you but I've went over and highly doubt it.

Theoretically if seth is scum he has 3-4 people questioning their scumread on him of which at most 1 is scum, and in a hypothetical world where seth is scum and redcoyote isn't then town-red is hard-defending scum and heavily misreading the game.

[Raskolnikov]

When I'm back sunday I'll go into more detail (I'm summarising everything atm) but even right now I don't think I'll be voting seth at day's end.

[Hoppic]

This is awkward phrasing. He would think the same thing as town, if he was town... rather than that he did think the same.

Seems like a scum slip to me.

In what universe is this a scum slip? I was explaining why I considered that post to be town sounding.

You said,

"This strikes me as a town mindset. I guess because I think I would wonder the same thing as town."

You

think

you would wonder the same thing as town? It sounds as if you are just guessing what you would think if you were town, which means you're not town.

Had I not included that comment, I suspect you would've attacked me for being "too vague" and "not backing up my reasons", yeah?

I don't think so?

Easy way to slip in a reactionary, WIFOM vote.

I know that WIFOM stands for wine in front of me, but what are you referring to here?

[Simoyd]

Just wondering why would you vote someone without intent to lynch, I mean you have said that you think that he is the most scummy out of everyone and than you voted him because he doesn't have a vote yet but you don't have any intent to lynch him? Shouldn't voting for people be reserved for actually wanting to lynch them. Like its open to change the vote later but why vote without intent.

This strikes me as a town mindset. I guess because I think I would wonder the same thing as town.

In what universe is this a scum slip?

This universe. What universe are you in?

If you would wonder the same thing as town, then why didn't you wonder that? The wording demonstrates that you think you're separate from town. You could have said "I missed that and agree". You could have said "I think the same thing [as town]". But you said you WOULD wonder the same thing as town implying that there's a condition, as if to say "I would wonder the same thing as town, if ...". I think the "..." here is what I've asked above: why didn't you wonder that? What is the condition? True, this could just be ego ("I would wonder the same thing as town, if I was a filthy pleb like you guys, but I'm amazing at this game"), but I don't really find the rest of your posts to be notably egotistical. I'm trying to understand what a town motivated condition here would be. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth by adding to your sentence, and I'm not trying to over-focus on one sentence. I'm just providing this big explanation because hoppic and I see it and you seem to be missing it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you chose that wording?

[Simoyd]

So I have some concerns about you, hoppic:

Weak Sauce

Alpacalpaca's only made one post so far, so it's hard to get a read just from that but it seemed strange to me that the post would be all about assessment and have no questions. Also, idk. It's easier to read people when you know what they're like a bit.

Why do you think it is wierd that alpaca has no questions? It seems that you only have two posts so far with questions about other people (125 and 232). 124 and 306 are defensive clarification questions, so not the same thing. 231 appears to be rhetorical as there was no follow up? I'm not trying to say you should ask more questions. I'm wondering what makes you think Alpaca's post is wierd?

Lurking / Not taking a stance / Feeling out the crowd

In posts 104, 107, 108, 109 - you really seem to be goin back and forth on your opinions. 109 explained this as a typo, but the wording in 107 "actually" demonstrates that the view posted here is different than 104. This series of posts gives me bad vibes. Additionally:

@Hoppic: Raskolnikov has posted a lot. Does he not stand out a bit too? What do you think?

I can't really understand what she (?) is saying. A few players in this game are like that for me: raskolnokiv, you a bit and Murphy. Maybe others. I can understand individual words and sentences but overall I don't get it.

I think murph and I were very clear. It really seems like you were lurking and scared to take a stance at this point. What is the town motivation here to not understand when asked to provide an opinion? I'd say it could be newbishness but later (227) you demonstrate that you can make a pretty solid deep read, so I'm a bit curious about this inconsistentcy. More evidence of lurking and fear of taking a stance is shown here:

I haven't gone back and reread the game yet so I haven't quoted particular parts.

that's post number 229! I feel like that's pretty far in. I don't think it's valuable for town to be posting opinons and analysis without having read up at that point. Sounds like it's really just more fear to take a stance, and trying to feel out what opinion will draw the least attention. How do you think this helps town?

This mostly is clear, but some things are hard to understand, such as, murphy definitely thinking and being a tiny bit scary...

Lets face it. The murph trane was crap at the start, and was still crap at the time your post here. This seems like parroting to me. Basically your analysis was that you agreed with a shitty trane and then you posed a rhetorical question (which I also mentioned above). The focus here wasn't that you didn't understand what raskolnikov said, but more that you demonstrated you didn't value understanding what raskolnikov said. Your response to parrot his opionions and post the rhetorical question still doesn't really take any kind of stance. What is your read on Rasko?

What do you think about what I said in post 227? Is it a scum slip?

Although I agree with your read, this again seems like you're feeling out the crowd and seeking validation before really jumping on it. I don't think I'm an authority in this game, and if you have a problem with something RC said, then why do I need to agree with you? Is there a reason other than more pressure on RC? There was no question from you in 227. Why didn't you just clearly outline the issue up front to him to potentially get his response instead?

One last thing: In post 231 you analyse the first part of Rasko's post 72. Then you have some revelation in post 233 about it. What made you chose this part (not the second half of 72) to analyze? How is this valuable to town?

The seth trane

My first post wasn't forced, it's not an attempt on humor either, I made it sound strange on purpose.
If we don't lynch Murph now, we are just going to lynch him later because of how dangerous he sounds.
How about we lynch him now and start from there.
VOTE: MurphVOTE:
UNVOTE: wgeurts

What do you mean about Murphy sounding dangerous? Dangerous how?

You jump on the seth trane, but only after rasko, murph, alpaca, and yogurts. So it's a pretty safe bet this won't draw attention at this point right? You also agree with his RVS seeming forced in post 103. I don't think your RVS vote is any more or less forced, as you provided two distinct reasons for your RVS vote. What exactly do you think is forced in his post? What words or topics sound forced? What really bothers me is:

From what I've observed so far only the ppl who has made the analysis of scum so far are town.

Who do you mean and why do you think they're town?
Does it bother you that a lot of people see you as scummy?

The first question is ambiguous. I'm getting vibes here that you're asking how to be a better town. Only scum is concerned with pretending to be town. The second question though is way off. If the answer is yes, then what? If the answer is no, then what? How does this help town? Why did you ask this? It sounds like "does it bother you that you're town, your strategy is crap, and you will be lynched instead of me?"

Your very next post after 127 is 227. During this time the seth trane derailed and exploded into the "slayer's gambit" junk. And your first post is to step away from seth in fear, which continues in post 228 (Note that I'm not sure I would agree with what seth says in 244. I think the whole thing is WIFOM. Scum could do either; be scared, or wagon on). But when I ask about it you gave me this:

Nothing Seth has said has made any sense to me and he seems really anti-town. I think he's probably scum, but redcoyote is a stronger read right now.
No, the slayer gambit explanation makes no sense. If you were doing that, why would you say so? Everyone's voting this early in the game, and the votes are not too serious so it doesn't make sense for timing either.

So if you don't believe the slayer gambit, then how do you explain seth being less of a read than RC? Why would a townie act like scum, and say he's doing the slayer's gambit and not be doing the slayer's gambit? How is that a worse read than what you have on RC?

---

@Hoppic: I'd like to hear your thoughts on the above

[Simoyd]

I have some stuff on hoppic for when I'm not on my phone.

@wgeurts: Is this still incoming? Also, like murph, I would like to hear your opinion on 111.

[RedCoyote]

I'm here. I think the town would be remiss to lynch me on D1 for a number of reasons, most of all being that I'm willing to be controversial and it's easy to jump onto my wagon without putting much independent thought into why it is you're lynching me (see: Ras, Murph, Kal).

[RedCoyote]

Does anyone happen to be online right now?

[Simoyd]

yes

[RedCoyote]

This is awkward phrasing. He would think the same thing as town, if he was town... rather than that he did think the same.

Seems like a scum slip to me.

In what universe is this a scum slip? I was explaining why I considered that post to be town sounding.

You said,

"This strikes me as a town mindset. I guess because I think I would wonder the same thing as town."

You

think

you would wonder the same thing as town? It sounds as if you are just guessing what you would think if you were town, which means you're not town.

I love this comment, because anyone with a town mindset (read: not you and possibly not Sim/Kal either) would've taken this knee-jerk reaction more critically.

If I were in Alpaca's shoes with a town alignment, I think I would've thought similarly to how he thought at that specific time. What part abotu that is hard to understand? I contend that that comment isn't hard to understand, and, instead, you deliberately tried to frame it in such a way to make others buy into the idea that there was a nefarious motive behind my relating to Alpaca. So, my attempt at trying to relate to Alpaca as a potential town-on-town discussion scared you, so you tried to put myself and Alpaca in a negative light at the outset.

Easy way to slip in a reactionary, WIFOM vote.

I know that WIFOM stands for wine in front of me, but what are you referring to here?

I'm referring to the fact that because I shined the spotlight on you, you immediately voted me and started your attack on me. I contend that that wasn't a coincidence. I think you are not interested in thoughtfully analyzing why I may vote you (as opposed to someone like Murph), and instead decided to take it as an opportunity to fire upon me.

[RedCoyote]

Naturally, I'm clouded by the bias of the votes, but I am confident there's a strong contingent of scum on my wagon. At least one, but possibly both. I think this because of Ras' reaction to my wagon (which tells me I'm not totally playing scummily this game) and because I think the scum are apt to get rid of an IC early on in the game if they think they can swing it.

[Simoyd]

If I were in Alpaca's shoes with a town alignment

I guess this explanation is okay...

[RedCoyote]

So, Sim, do you want to talk about anything one-on-one? Did you want to try and convince me to join your on Seth? Were there any posts you wanted to point me toward?

[RedCoyote]

If I were in Alpaca's shoes with a town alignment

I guess this explanation is okay...

Frankly, I don't see how you could read it in any other way unless you were intending to try and sway a quick, foolhardy lynch. I'm disappointed that you'd give Hoppic so much credit as to apply his obvious framework on me without having the independent sense to question either him or myself first.

[Simoyd]

I think the scum are apt to get rid of an IC early on in the game if they think they can swing it.

Assuming you're town I agree with this.

[Simoyd]

If I were in Alpaca's shoes with a town alignment

I guess this explanation is okay...

Frankly, I don't see how you could read it in any other way unless you were intending to try and sway a quick, foolhardy lynch. I'm disappointed that you'd give Hoppic so much credit as to apply his obvious framework on me without having the independent sense to question either him or myself first.

My credit shouldn't matter to anyone. I expect people to form their own opinions. I think the wording implies a condition, which you've provided. I'm still getting bad vibes from hoppic, but I'm not sure I would describe it as obvious.

[Simoyd]

do you want to talk about anything one-on-one

Yes. a couple things maybe. I'm concerned about yogurts. I'm wondering if hoppic and him are partners. Hoppics fear of taking a stance near the start kind of seems to me like he's distancing from yogurts. What do you think about that or is there anything on your mind?

[RedCoyote]

Red is culling two from the heard by enticing them with a security bloc.

Clearly something frightens you about Sim and Ras working together. What would that be?

---

I'm starting to think seth may be town, bad town, but still town, but RedCoyote is scummy. I'd vote him but are unsure what the totals are, don't really have time to put a full list of my opinions.

I'll keep this in mind for later. This strikes me as very scummy that you cannot be bothered to vote someone you suspect as scum because you are worried that it will make you look bad.

---

RC, I'm claiming seths thing isn't a bloody reaction test at all.

I know. You contend that his vote wasn't a reaction test, that his idea at a reaction test was conjured up because people were voting him, right?

---

I'll VOTE: RedCoyote

How fortunate that you were able to "put a full list of your opinions" in those 3 hours since your post 285... oh, wait, but, you didn't.... you simply quoted Alpaca and said, effectively, "I agree". :/

---

My credit shouldn't matter to anyone.

It matters to me given that I've went out on an obvious limb to call you town very early on in this game, much to detriment. I stand by that determination, but I'm human. If you respond to that positive gesture with hostility, I'm going to be spurned.

[Simoyd]

alpaca is still on seth which I like

[RedCoyote]

do you want to talk about anything one-on-one

Yes. a couple things maybe. I'm concerned about yogurts. I'm wondering if hoppic and him are partners. Hoppics fear of taking a stance near the start kind of seems to me like he's distancing from yogurts. What do you think about that or is there anything on your mind?

I think that's a very reasonable, very rationale partnership to consider at this time. Hoppic seems intent to focus attention on me while wgeurts seems intent to kill that same attention while not giving Hoppic any apparent negative attention for it. If I had to guess right now, I'd say that was a pretty solid guess at scum. I could very well be wrong, but we're still on D1, after all.

[Simoyd]

I've went out on an obvious limb to call you town very early on in this game, much to detriment

My credit shouldn't matter to anyone either. People should form their own opinions. Not hostile, maybe just my opinion, but I think it's most effective for everyone to maintain independent thought, even if they may settle on a wagon for some time.

(still reading rest of ur post)