Newbie 1723 - Game Over!

[Skold]

Well hurry up then. Seriously I'd much prefer having a barrier between when we actually lynch and the deadline.

[rb]

List your top 2 scumreads.

[Dirty Harry2]

thenewearth.
Post links to your games as scum and town.
I want to see if you exhibit the same attitude there as you do here.


vecna - we should not lynch D1.

Rb - is my only town read.

I wish Errant would push more on his surface-level-town scum-reads.

Nacho I believe is holding back - thus, on the wrong side of null.

[Franky]

I decided to reread my yesterday interaction with Skold:

Question:

What I'm curious about is why you don't see that earth has been acting very scummy too?

Answer: None.

My thoughts: The fact that Skold didn't answer this by just saying he did notice it feels like he's ignoring a reference to his scum buddy.

Question:

are you going to pretend you didn't notice until this very moment that Earth haven't been answering ANY questions since beginning of game?

Answer:

Just took a cheeky wee tour of your ISO. None of those were worth answering. Probably slipped into the back of my mind because those weren't questions actually worth bothering with. ''Does RQS have to be scum or town'' - why would anybody waste time with this. Especially after an IC wall on the theory of RQS.

My thoughts:

• Can't understand why my ISO is important. Several people asked TNE questions, and I specifically capsed the word ANY so that Skold understands I'm not only talking about my questions. Skold ignores this and finds a way to not answer the question.
  
• Skold chose the one question that is meant rhetorically as an example for my questions not being worth the time, and frames it in a redundant light when it was a response to the very post that was right before it from TNE, which was TNE's subtle attempt to associate me with E_is_cool when I voted her before him with a bs RVS reason and D1 hasn't even started yet when she made that post.
  
• He also somehow misses the opportunity to comment on the most pointless of my questions, which is a plain question about TNE's age that came out of nowhere.

Is it a coincidence that you only started addressing this after I asked you why you didn't notice earth has been acting scummy?

Answer: None.

My thoughts: He probably ignored this because he has noticed she's been acting scummy and he's an arrogant prick. Or because it's an inconvenient question that he can paint as dumb. Notice that Skold would have motivation to ignore this even if Earth isn't his scum buddy as it would frame him as someone who isn't putting effort into getting reads.

Why did you avoid answering that question yourself when you're going to join earth's wagon for not answering question btw?

Answer:

I could go through all of these but these questions weren't directed at me.

My thoughts: This makes me think slightly that he mistook my reference to him not answering my first question to him not answering the questions I asked TNE, but I quickly realize that would be an incredibly dumb assumption to make because I phrased it as "that question", so there was no possible mistake. This is his second attempt to misrep what I'm saying, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt once more and try to question him on these things. I also don't see why he would miss that I'm pointing out his hippocracy over ignoring questions when he's dissing Earth for exactly the same thing.

Question:

If your opinion is that she isn't acting scummy, why did you ignore my question about that fact instead of criticizing the reasons I have for voting her, which I've also been displaying since the beginning of D1?

Answer:

1. Never said she wasn't scummy, said your case sucked.

My thoughts: I start my sentence with "if" and he assumes I think he said anything clearly... And why is he narrowing down my case against Earth to the only thing that he addressed which is her not answering questions?

Question:

Forget the beginning of D1, why aren't you scumhunting me like your life depends on it right now?

Answer:

2. I am scumreading you because you've shown weird interactions with Vecna (I'll quote below in a second) and because this case is really bad.

My thoughts: He literally answers me asking him why he isn't scumhunting me by confirming that he's scumreading me............................... WTF?!

Question:

And let's suppose for a second that you know for a fact my questions have no value, which you don't btw because only I know why I asked any question, why are you ignoring all the questions earth ignored that aren't in my ISO?

Answer:

3. Because I only read your ISO because I'm not here to dismantle your case on TNE I'm here to decide if it's scummy

My thoughts: I would say Fair enough if I had short term memory, but I don't and I remember that he was criticizing my statement that

she didn't answer anyone's questions

.... and his phrasing sounded like an attempt to frame me as scum, so this answer is another load of convenient horse shit.

Question:

Which part of my posts gave you the impression that I'm only scum reading her for avoiding to answer my own questions?

Answer:

4. Never said that

My thoughts: Then how the hell will you decide if my case is scummy if you don't look at the rest of my case?!!!!!! the horse shit stench is getting stronger.

Question:

And why would you interpret "Does RQS have to be scum or town" as anything other than a rhetorical way of showing the flaw in earth's reasoning about e_is_cool?

Answer:

5. IDK why it's a bad question, it's a bad question. And most of your questions read like they're impossible to be answered because they read like they don't fit in this thread.

My thoughts: Horse Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Question:

Why did you have no issues with earth trying to frame e_is_cool in the beginning by deliberately ignoring the subtleties of everyone's criticism of her read on him? Like seriously, you're the only one mate.

Answer:

6. I do have problems with TNE's argument against e_is_cool. I made my own case, read my ISO or don't even talk about what my stances are.

My thoughts: Ok this one is 100% my bad, but I'm glad I made this mistake because it helped give him an excuse to use the stupid argument again and resulted in this bonus answer.

Bonus answer:

Overall: WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS? WHAT THE ACTUAL CRAP FRANKY? Like seriously, why do you think TNE didn't answer these questions? Because of my post here. I'm not responding to you anymore this is stupid.

My thoughts: Me making a mistake about the reaction to earth voting e_is_cool in the beginning can be put aside for a moment, but why is he getting so worked up over something he could have pointed out as an answer to my very first question? And why is calling that one reference to TNE being wrong and one other vague statement that he's "not liking TNE" a case? Why is he over exploiting my mistake and blowing it out of proportion? And if by any distant chance he's town, why is he acting so chocked that someone he scum read in this very post would be misreping him?

Question:

1) Where are these quotes? And why aren't you pursuing your scum read on me? Is it because I said I'll be revising my read on you?

Answer:

1. Had a look into it and it basically hinges on Vecna being scum. Since upon actually thinking I concluded there is no way scum would do this for at best 2 for 1 me and TNE for himself and only a slight chance of TNE and Vecna both being scum with TNE being the bus to confirm Vecna so working from that assumption is stupid.

Vecna is most likely town

, we'll just have to see if his strat is worth thinking about in future games or is just a gimmick that works occasionally.

My thoughts: I like my explanation better. He was overloading me with horse shit because my questions struck a nerve, and he took my first slip and used it to get me to back down instead of scumreading me for it, and as soon as I backed down I became town in his eyes, because I was always town in his eyes. And why is his vote still on Vecna if he miraculously thinks they are town now?

Question:

2) You state you're scum reading me, and then you react like there could be no scum motivation behind me misreping you? In the same post?!!!

Answer:

2. ''react like there could be no scum motivation behind me misreping you'' I didn't say that. Or act like it. I said ''where are you getting this'' because the questions sucked regardless of alignment. How does saying your questions suck imply I don't think you're scum? Franky's questions are being very surface level and not telling whatsoever. IDK if he's getting want he wants from them but I don't like this behavior.

My thoughts: He did act like it.

VOTE: Skold

[rb]

Gotta be honest, it's really bad we have people with a single townread. Usually you can at least get 2 or 3 decent townleans on people and avoid them for a lynch D1 to increase your odds of hitting scum. I normally wouldn't talk about stuff like this, but since I'm like the ONLY townread for multiple people in this game it makes me a likely NK.

But this is exactly the kind of game Cop is built for, and in this particular game I think their efforts are best directed towards the middle of the pack players who are null reading right now. Use your own judgment, but from my POV we need to be able to sort through the players who are mostly non-contributors. People can argue about optimal Cop strategy all they want, but remember that my point is about

this specific game

and I think that's what would give us the best chance of winning. Also because scum reading null for an entire game is a very real thing, happens a lot that they never quite end up as townreads or scumreads, they just sit and coast and that's what this game is potentially turning into (nullscum game).

No idea if we have Cop though. Sucks if we don't since I can't see much else busting this game open right now... unless the scum really are in Vecna/Skold/Earth then I'll just fucking lol. And yeah, that could be turned into an argument to put a read on one of those 3, but I don't think it is for this particular game since 1 of those 3 are gonna die today - and a confirmed alignment flip from one of them will tell us a decent amount on the other two imo (if people don't go full retard).

In case I die tonight, my reads are:

Scum

Skold
Earth

Nullscum

Errant

Straight up Null

Nacho
e_is_cool
Franky

Slight Townlean

Vecna
Dirty Harry

Yeah, I don't have any strong townreads which is awful.

Also I think it's good for everyone to provide a reads list prior to deadline so that whoever is NK'd leaves behind a trail of town-confirmed reads. Doesn't mean they're right, but at least you don't have to second guess the motivations which is something in and of itself.

[rb]

Not sure if that's L-1: don't hammer yet please. Nacho hasn't checked in, we really need to hear from him as he's IC. I mean he could be a scumbag but right now I'm not reading him either way so I want his input.

[rb]

UNVOTE: Skold

Just so it's abundantly clear: my vote is going on the Skold wagon and I'm not risking a No-Lynch here. I just don't want this day ending with so many players not having given input.

[Franky]

Post count:

Vecna (3) – Earth, Skold, Nacho
e_is_cool (0) -
Harry (0) -
Skold (2) – parabola, Franky
Franky (0) -
rb (0) -
Parabola (0) -
Earth (2) – Vecna, e_is_cool
Nacho (0) -
Not Voting (2) – Harry, rb

[rb]

Stepping out to do some grocery shopping and I'll be back in a couple of hours-ish.

[Franky]

Corrected Post count:

Vecna (3) – Earth, Nacho
e_is_cool (0) -
Harry (0) -
Skold (2) – parabola, Franky
Franky (0) -
rb (0) -
Parabola (0) -
Earth (2) – Vecna, e_is_cool
Nacho (0) -
Not Voting (2) – Harry, rb, Skold

Missed Skold's unvote.

[Franky]

My reads:

Scum:
1) Skold, Earth
2) Parabola

Null:
Vecna
e_is_cool
Nacho

Town:
rb
Dirty Harry

[e_is_cool]

Why are we even giving out reads right before night? It'll just tell scum who to kill.

[rb]

I personally think it's better than everyone's transparent so that when we get our two flips, we then have their reads to work off and we can see how those reads compare to the players left in the game. Speculating over how our actions may or may not affect the scum team's strategy is pointless. They might kill someone on their case, they could cop hunt or they could just kill off the least active members to leave the smallest trail possible. Or they could do something else, who knows.

Whatever they do though, we can only figure out motivations if the player they kill leaves behind a decent chunk of their thoughts.

If it makes you uneasy then don't do it.

[Skold]

Question to everyone else : Does anybody to expect me to even read that wall of actual fucking nonsense and reply to it? Because I don't want to put in that effort when it will cause another page of Franky spewing stupid shite but if it's expected I will.
@rb idk if I actually have any scumreads. I

[Skold]

Well that post wasn't finished. Bit rude site. Let's try that again
@rb idk if I actually have any scumreads. TNE looks bad for not answering questions (side note to Franky: The real questions not yours) but I have no confidence that she will flip scum. I've seen town be as stupid as Franky is right now so I really don't care about that. Vecna in my mind is cleared as town for this game but if he flips scum I'm never going to trust anybody who does that ever again. e_is_cool looks pretty bad for general inactivity, not actually contributing etc. So yeah, e is about as far as it goes. This was mostly a stream of conscious post so idc if it will come out well.

[rb]

Tbh I didn't even read that wall because it's formatted horrendously and it hurts to even try. I don't know what's so hard about referencing post numbers and then just sticking post tags around them.

[Skold]

Vote: TNE

I'm going to be deliberately ignoring this thread for as long as possible. Hopefully the entire rest of the day. Massive headache (I entirely blame that Franky wall, jesus h christ) so this is in case I don't come back. Also because I might not come back and because I don't want you waiting on a PR claim that isn't coming - I'm a VT.
General advice: That just there was really bad and you shouldn't ever do it but I'm lazy and sick of this thread, and of Franky and of this Vecna reaction test. This whole game is a literary Mecca on how not to play mafia imo.
pedit: THANK YOU. JESUS IF YOU WANTED ME TO REPLY MAKE IT LEGIBLE FUCK SAKE.

[rb]

Skold, if you had to go with nullscum who would you go with? Let's say Franky, Errant, Nacho, E - who's the scumteam if you're picking from those 4?

[rb]

I take that frustration as NAI tbh, but if you're town - work with me. I fully agree and have expressed my dislike of how dysfunctional this town is. I'm practically praying we have a competent Cop in this game because it's the only way this stupid shit is getting sorted out. I really don't care if you don't interact with others, but you're actually finally saying shit that's in my language and I can get.

Post 441 is like the first time you've said something and I've gone, "yeah, okay I get that" and could understand your reasoning.

[thenewearth]

I'm gonna answer later

Tooth just got extracted and my head is splitting and the pain is killing me

[thenewearth]

oh right

@Mod: V/LA: Indefinite amount of time. Just until the pain subsides

[thenewearth]

Oh and btw to the person asking for my meta

No

Not gonna happen

[Nachomamma8]

I've skimmed Vecna's posting, will respond in full when I'm more awake and more sober.

[Franky]

So I spend 2 hours presenting a case against someone and people don't even want to read it....

I don't even know what to think of this. Getting tempted to ask Ircher to replace me.

[Dirty Harry2]

Oh and btw to the person asking for my meta

No

Not gonna happen

I presume it is damning then.
Thank you for your honesty.