Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille
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thenewearth Mafia Scum
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If anything its the IC's job to teach you the basics
Its my job to let you see what happens when you do stupid stuff-
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shannon Mafia Scum
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I have some questions about this postIn post 251, 0x40 wrote:Here are my reads so far:
Jibs: Seems to be extremely overconfident in some of his reads, putting shannon at 31% scum for very minor reasons, and townreading Rocnix at 19% scum for seemingly no reason at all. He thinks policy lynching is a good enough of an idea to bring it up, which is insane from a town perspective. Lynching based on policy rather than lynching whoever is the most scummy is extremely anti-town. He wants Chrimi to not get replaced and doesn't give a good explanation why. 32% scum.
Chrimi: Isn't really scumhunting much, is very selective in the questions she chooses to answer, selfvoted during rvs, votes implosion for some strange reason, anddoesn't seem to have much of a read on anyone. 30% scum.
thenewearth: Pretty much all her posts are completely useless.Seems to have basically no reads whatsoever on anyone, and has done next to no scumhunting. 27% scum.
shannon:Doesn't seem to have any reads on anyone either, but seems to at least trying to scumhunt. 23% scum.
implosion:Hasn't really given much of a read on anyone since post #33, but that's kinda understandable considering that not much has happened in this game so far. 23% scum.
AstralFlare: Is supposedly working on a readlist that will be posted today. Been actively scumhunting. 22% scum.
PenguinPower: Makes a reasonable case against Chrimi in #110. Has a readlist that makes sense. 20% scum.
Rocnix: Has a readlist that's almost identical to PenguinPower's. Not much else to go by. 23% scum.
1) Why is Implosion excused for not having reads ('kinda understandable considering that not much has happened') but for everyone else it's a negative?
2) How is TNE 'pretty much useless' at 27%, and yet me, implosion, rocnix are at 23% with seemingly neutral reads? Is 4% a significant margin for you?
3) Penguin gets credit for a reasonable case and gets 20%, but people who are not giving reads are only on 22% or 23% ... again, is 2 or 3% really significant?
Isn't this list just a way of saying that everyone is about the same, but you think Jibs and Chrimi are slightly scummier ... I guess I think that the words and %s don't match up.
Finally - aren't you town reading everyone based on this? If no one is more than 50% scum, aren't we all town? So isn't this list kind of ... meaningless?-
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AstralFlare Goon
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AstralFlare Goon
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I said she was anti town because she dodged questions and didn't support her claims, not because I disagreed with her. Also her tendency to shove aside anyone who FoSed her as asinine didn't make her look any more townie. Towns try to advance the game, not keep it at a standstill. That's changed since, and I'm glad.In post 257, implosion wrote: FTR I really do strongly disagree with the characterization of Chrimi as an anti-town VI. She's providing a lot of reasoned content, and just because you disagree with that content does not make her a VI, or anti-town. This refers to both AstralFlare and 0x40. And I really do think in both of these cases it is mostly just disagreement.
Seeing as I forgot to do so last post,
UNVOTE:-
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AstralFlare Goon
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PenguinPower He/Him.pengHe/Him
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Sorry for the absence...work-related situation came up. So...didn't get answers to all my questions, but there's been enough interaction that I think I can make some reasonable reads based off more than gut. Here we go...
0x40:
Spoiler:
AstralFlare:
Spoiler:
Chrimi:
Spoiler:
implosion:
Spoiler:
Jibs:
Spoiler:
Rocnix:
Spoiler:
shannon:
Spoiler:
thenewearth:
Spoiler:
Votes look like currently:
Chrimi: AstralFlare; 0x40
thenewearth: Rocnix
Jibs: shannon
Rocnix: implosion
0x40: thenewearth
Not voting: Jibs, Me
Based on my reads VOTE: Rocnix
p-edit:
Looks like AF posted his reads.-
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AstralFlare Goon
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kk point by point rebuttal.
You can read tone from text. You can tell from the choice of words and the sentence length whether someone is happy or angry, indignant or afraid. You can tell from how much they write whether they're being defensive or not. You can tell from all of these whether someone is town or scum. Here's a helpful tutorial: http://literarydevices.net/tone/.
I was referring only to the *tone* of that single line.
Yes, because I'd selfvote and claim scum in my first post in order to look unscummy and blend in.In post 60, AstralFlare wrote:To clarify, it makes it seem like you will only do stuff because that will make you look unscummy.
I never voted you because you didn't vote by page 3. That was just a question. I voted you because you were dodging questions, not supporting your claims, and calling everything you didn't like asinine.
Yet I'm scum for not voting by page 3, right? :bIn post 103, AstralFlare wrote:Penguin has done well, nothing, but I don't think that's uncommon for a game five pages in?
Page four? Let me see what page four was about... Oh right, it was mine and implosion's disagreement. Let's see what you have to say about that:Chrimi: To be honest she sounded very much like outraged townie in her play at the end of page three. Which was fairly solid to me in terms of tone as well as content. But then I completely disagreed with everything she said on Page 4. Her tone shifted as well to become even more defensive, going from outraged townie to afraid scum. I'm happy with where my vote is right now, at least until she continued dodging and stopped supporting her wildest claims. (eg end of 99) (More on this later.)
Tone I already talked about. You can disagree with someone, while simultaneously dodging their questions and changing your tone? I don't get you at all here.
Ohhh, right. My disagreement with implosion, which took up most of page four, was based on a meta disagreement. But of course, at the same time, according to you, I was dodging and my "tone" was changing from outraged townie to afraid scum.On Chrimi's vote on imp: This is OMGUS. It seems from her explanation that this was purely based on a meta disagreement.
Riiight.
I was saying I didn't think this was a good assumption, so I was asking people who are more experienced than me at the game if this is standard.
"Please discredit her playstyle!"[/spoiler]Other SEs, what do you think of this:
Here in Mafia, when people ask questions, it's generally to try and help find scum. So I usually answer questions with the assumption that they think whatever action they're questioning me about is scummy.
VOTE: AstralFlare-
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Chrimi Mafia Scum
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So TNE is more open-minded in the sense that she's okay going against thread sentiment.. Yet my read on shannon being town, which is also against thread sentiment, is closed-minded?In post 266, Jibs wrote:Hello Chrimi!
Tne is apparently tunneling shannon, which is open minded in terms of being wildly at odds with thread sentiment. I guess it's closed minded in the literal sense that she refuses to change her mind.
I don't mean to discount your reads, especially when I'm reading the game so poorly. I will definitely keep af and pp in mind as possible lynches. If you are town, I think it is likely that we will need your vote in order to lynch scum, and I am very happy that you took the time to post a read wall.
If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.
It sounds more like you're just confbiasing anyone that thinks shannon is scum because you think shannon is scum.
I post a real case full of content and an in-depth readslist, and this is all you can say about me? :LIn post 267, shannon wrote:6. Chrimi (SE) - Still think she's frustrated town.
He hasn't said anything about this being a reaction test, stop giving him an out. He's not "pointing fingers at everyone and putting pressure" like you seem to think he is. He's hard tunneling a single player because he doesn't understand that having alts is NAI, same with not wanting to share said alts. You're giving a looot of credit where it isn't due.In post 277, AstralFlare wrote:0x40 as town. That's the surprise done with. His style is really confrontational and provocative, far far more so than I would expect from scum. He says he's played lots of IRC mafia. I've played a lot of IRC werewolf. I can say that one of the most common plays I see good town doing is pointing fingers at everyone day one to add pressure. This is the famous reaction test, although I have doubts about how efficient it is in a slower forum format. This is also what he is doing now. Nitpicking, but 108 and 114 are good. This hammering for concrete info is good town play. I have doubts about him wanting everyone's alts, but it can't be denied that his 254 is good.
While I agree with fence-sitting, him re-evaluating you after I told him you're definitely scum and posted a case is super town of him.Implosion as very weak scumlean. I don't know. On reading his ISO, his recent posts seem waffly. 182 in particular. It is flippy floppy sit-on-the-fence, with him looking unwilling to really commit to anything, while simultaneously trying to reserve the "it's late and I'm sleepy" backdoor if he gets called out. In fact, after another readthrough I seem to notice he's just following the flow of the game, following the majority, lynching someone when others do, townleaning someone when everyone else does. Like right now, he says he's re-evaluating me, after Chrimi voiced her opinion that I was scum. His posts thus far have also been more I agree/I disagree. There's a lack of question marks. Not sure if this is a playstyle thing, but even if it is I think he should be more active in scumhunting.
I can definitely agree @ the lack of question marks though.
Scum build awful cases very often, in fact if a case is awful that is usually because it's wrong. The real thing you want to look for is if a case looks like it's coming from genuine town scumhunting, or if it's coming from scum trying to make up reasons to get someone lynched.Chrimi is town. Lol. This is based on her 259 readlist and her tone over the past few pages. I don't think scum would build such an awful case on me as well. More on that later.
It's called a joke. And while her posts are small and not huge on content, this is:TNE as very weak scumlean until I get that Shannon case. It's been 6 posts. She's switched her opinion from totoro-san big that it's Shannon/PP, but now has her vote on 0x4x? I'd like an explanation. Her average postlength looks to be about 30 words, and she hasn't posted a readlist yet. Not helping town.
1. Per her meta
2. To be expected in most games who are this far into Day One
The abnormality in this game is how much content the rest of us are posting with so little information to go off of, really.
Now this just pings scumteam for me hardcore. No real specifics at all or information, like the rest of your reads had. "He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing" even after making a case on me, tunneling into it before suddenly switching to someone else seemingly out of the blue before I even posted a readslist?PP as uh, null? I can't tell what you guys find so scummy about him. He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing, his short exchange with Chrimi felt pretty meaningless.
You're misunderstanding.In post 278, AstralFlare wrote:
I said she was anti town because she dodged questions and didn't support her claims, not because I disagreed with her. Also her tendency to shove aside anyone who FoSed her as asinine didn't make her look any more townie. Towns try to advance the game, not keep it at a standstill. That's changed since, and I'm glad.In post 257, implosion wrote: FTR I really do strongly disagree with the characterization of Chrimi as an anti-town VI. She's providing a lot of reasoned content, and just because you disagree with that content does not make her a VI, or anti-town. This refers to both AstralFlare and 0x40. And I really do think in both of these cases it is mostly just disagreement.
I haven't changed at all.
I wasn't calling people asinine for FoSing me, and I didn't dodge any questions. I didn't make any claims to support, because I was too busy dealing with several players (mostly 0x40) telling me that I was scum forhaving alts.
You saying I was anti-town was totally misrep, and now you're misrepping why you did it in the first place. Yuck.
kk point by point rebuttal rebuttal
Spoiler: rebute that shit-
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Jibs Townie
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Hello af!
Thank you for posting your readslist, I will post my reads in a second. It feels like you don't like to change your mind without seeing new information, and you think that it is scum indicative when other people do this... and it is.
To help you understand where I'm coming from, I've never played forum mafia before, but I have played a lot of Avalon irl. This is a game where one town player has essentially complete information, and the rest of town just tries to find and sheep that player while building a town circle. Right now, I have no idea who mafia is, but it feels like some players are reading the game better than others, so I'm trying to find someone with good reads and latch on. I don't know if this is actually a good way to play mafia, but getting a good lynch day 1 seems difficult anyways from the games I've read.
The point is, three different people called me out on my rocnix read, and it's not possible for scumteam to be you+pp+imp. I don't think you would change a read based on people disagreeing, but I 100% would.-
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Jibs Townie
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Hello folks!
I have some reads for you people. I don't have the time or energy to maintain my wall of percentages--maybe I will make a new one after we see some flips.
Right now I am living in two worlds. In the first world, imp is mafia going after easy lynches. He casts suspicion on Chrimi early on stuff that he knows is NAI, hoping that it will snowball into a lynch because newb game. He scumreads 0x40 "contingent on his play in the near future", and then takes forever to actually make up his mind on 0x40 being town. He buddies me on my crappy pp push. And finally he sees rocnix's weak looking filter and places a vote.
In the second world, imp is town, those easy lynches are actually just players who look scummy, and rocnix is the scummiest person here. Her read on pp in 184 looks kind of made up: why does she only meta pp and tne in that post? It could be that town!rocnix POEd down to tne vs pp, but then why not say that? It feels more like she figured out two players she wanted to scumread, figured pp was the easier target, and bsed an argument based on his meta. In general, there is not a lot of push from rocnix's play. Not a lot of follow through. It feels more like scum wanting to be pro town than town trying to solve the game.
My town reads are Chrimi, 0x40, and af. All these players are playing in a way that makes sense to me. Chrimi is focusing on players who interact with her and trying to read her wagon. 0x40 is playing a role, but it feels more like a town role than a mafia role. I would love to hear 0x40's thoughts in the postmortem regardless of his alignment. Af looks at how peoples' reads evolve and reads based on that, cf his readlist entries on me, imp, tne.
I am suspicious of imp, rocnix, and tne. I feel like town!tne ties up the shannon narrative before trying an unlikely policy attack on 0x40. If tne is town then I kind of feel bad for undermining her here, but I don't think 0x gets lynched today.
I am unsure about PP, but I believe him when he says that he is making an effort to avoid playing antitown. That feels genuine, regardless of his alignment.
I think we can lynch after resolving peoples questions on tne and, perhaps, me. I don't think we are likely to lynch scum, but we have a lot to go on going into D2.-
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Jibs Townie
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Hello rocnix!
I wouldn't say this is a scumtell on its own, but "trying to help town" combined with "not really going after scum" usually reads as scummy. Probably one of the more common ways to get scumread before we have any flips.In post 269, Rocnix wrote:(Also, I'm trying to avoid alienating people, because I definitely need information and clarification from the more experienced players, and will continue to need that throughout the game. Asking for opinions is a way to get more info from people without offending them, though based on people's reactions I'm guessing it's not as useful as I thought it was, so I'll try to be a bit more aggressive.)
This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I don't think town takes my bs association this seriously.In post 271, Rocnix wrote:
(For reference, he was talking to Chrimi)In post 266, Jibs wrote:If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.
Okay, I have to question this. Not the fact that he considered me a viable scumpartner for Chrimi, but that he couldn't give evidence.
Stop undercutting yourself here! You have the basis of a good case on me. Try to go back through the thread and find places where I've pushed easy lynches and scumread easy targets. You have a narrative where I have scum agenda Day 1: that's a rare and powerful line of attack.On page 1 I unvoted her when she complained about being at L-2, and throughout the argument about the alts I was suspicious of 0x40 and read her as a frustrated townie. IMO this would bereally easyto interpret as newbie scum messing up an attempt to bus and then defending their scumpartner. So, I'm not seeing the narrative (or lack thereof?) of town!Jibs. Care to explain?
(Is this a better level of interrogation?)
I feel like you need to vote me if you want your push on me to have any power--I only have two votes so far, and one of them is shannon's trollish "scumteam=imp+jibs" association vote. I think omgus pushes always start off from a disadvantage, so you really need to convince the thread that you think I'm scum. I think trying to recruit people would help, as would talking ominously about how the lynch is imminent. Your best bet for recruits are probably Af and pp, but maybe you could get tne on board.
To be honest, the fact that your vote is prodding tne while you are scumreading me is more of that "helpful to town rather than solving the game" feeling.-
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Rocnix Townie
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0x40 attacked Chrimi, who was under a lot of suspicion at the time, which read scum. 0x40 expanded his attack to thenewearth, who hasn't been participating and wouldn't have a good defense if 0x40 were able to make a case, which read opportunistic scum. 0x40 attacked Jibs, who had support as a contributing member of town, which read OMGUS. My read changed because my information changed.
My confidence levels are low in everything I do here.I'm trying to imitate what helps town because I don't know what else to do -- Jibs involved me by asking for readlists, so I tried to involve others by asking for readlists. Implosion says that null reads are scummy (implying that they're unhelpful), so I try and take stronger viewpoints. That is the context of my actions. That will continue to be the context of my actions until I learn how to play this game.
Spoiler: Jibs' latest post
The lack of detail there was NAI; the town!Jibs narrative was "slightly too lazy to read through the whole forum". I was trying to imitate shannon's reaction gambit, but no one else cared, so it looks like that didn't work. I find it interesting that you encouraged the push rather than defending yourself (ie, Mafia!Jibs is trying to get Town!Rocnix to make an easily dismissed case, or Town!Jibs is trying to get mafia!Rocnix to slip up and recruit their scumpartner). I also find it interesting that you did so in a way that even I would notice ("talking ominously" is not the most subtle of phrases).
In 37 and 38, Jibs joined Chrimi's wagon and brought up meta as an argument.
In 67, he noticed shannon's gambit and jumped off the Chrimi wagon. He followed up on shannon's behavior in 109.
The rest of the forum is vaguely in recent memory, and Jibs has been townish in general there.
...Yeah, there's no case based on "places where [Jibs has] pushed easy lynches and scumread easy targets."
My conclusion is that Jibs is teaching me how to play the game here (thank you!). He basically told me to go support my arguments and listed a couple common scumtells. Maf doesn't gain anything from turning a suspicious townie into something more competent, so Jibs reads town.
I'm being kicked off the computer, so I'll leave my vote on thenewearth for now and reevaluate when I get back.-
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Chrimi Mafia Scum
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New players take that kind of stuff seriously. He took my "Spooky, I don't want to be at L-2!" seriously as well. (Which is what lead to me saying it was a joke.)In post 285, Jibs wrote:
This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I don't think town takes my bs association this seriously.In post 271, Rocnix wrote:
(For reference, he was talking to Chrimi)In post 266, Jibs wrote:If you are scum, your partner is......... Rocnix! Idk why.
Okay, I have to question this. Not the fact that he considered me a viable scumpartner for Chrimi, but that he couldn't give evidence.
It's definitely NAI for Rocnix.-
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Rocnix Townie
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Jibs Townie
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Hello 0x40.
I guess I should reply to your points on me.
That doesn't make me mafia.In post 251, 0x40 wrote:Here are my reads so far:
Jibs: Seems to be extremely overconfident in some of his reads,
My reasons were fine.putting shannon at 31% scum for very minor reasons,
This is a good point.and townreading Rocnix at 19% scum for seemingly no reason at all.
I think policy lynching is a terrible idea, which is why I said we can't do it.He thinks policy lynching is a good enough of an idea to bring it up,
As I said, I think it will be even harder to read a replacement. Nobody in the thread, except for you, wanted Chrimi to get replaced--there cannot be 8 scum in this game.He wants Chrimi to not get replaced and doesn't give a good explanation why. 32% scum.
I think you would do your whole schtick, with the twisting peoples' words and "you will explain this" tone, as either alignment. I am leaning town on you right now mostly because of af's read, but I would feel a whole lot better about you if you came back into the thread and started telling people I was mafia =/
There is still time to post while we are waiting for tne to say something alignment indicative.-
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0x40 Goon
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Acting like you know more about people's alignment than you should is a scumtell, because only scum could really know everyone's alignment at this point.In post 289, Jibs wrote:That doesn't make me mafia.
The reasons were valid, but very minor. Certainly not something that should add up to 31 scum%. Did you have any other reasons to scumread shannon at that point that you haven't mentioned?In post 289, Jibs wrote:My reasons were fine.
You said that policy lynching me "might be nice," and "absolutely cannot afford toIn post 289, Jibs wrote:I think policy lynching is a terrible idea, which is why I said we can't do it.right now" seems to imply that it could be a good idea later. Can you explain why you even bought up policy lynching if you think it's such a bad idea?-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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I mean, this is sort of true. But you ignore the things I've done that haven't been following at all (notably both of my votes). I'm reconsidering you because there was a case on you that I haven't read yet and it's possible that case has substance. Would you rather I be obstinate, and unwilling to change my opinions?AstralFlare wrote:Implosion as very weak scumlean. I don't know. On reading his ISO, his recent posts seem waffly. 182 in particular. It is flippy floppy sit-on-the-fence, with him looking unwilling to really commit to anything, while simultaneously trying to reserve the "it's late and I'm sleepy" backdoor if he gets called out. In fact, after another readthrough I seem to notice he's just following the flow of the game, following the majority, lynching someone when others do, townleaning someone when everyone else does. Like right now, he says he's re-evaluating me, after Chrimi voiced her opinion that I was scum. His posts thus far have also been more I agree/I disagree. There's a lack of question marks. Not sure if this is a playstyle thing, but even if it is I think he should be more active in scumhunting.
I'm willing to accept the characterization of my play as waffly. It's just a byproduct of me not being confident in things yet.
As for Rocnix's case:
I wouldn't say I was scumreading her at that point. I was suspicious enough that I would have voted her had she not been at L-2, but I thought there was a decent chance that her response to me would diffuse my suspicion.In posts 78, 79, and 80, Implosion scumreads but does not vote Chrimi (who is at that point at L-2), and explains why we should wait before voting to lynch her. Regardless of whether Chrimi turned out town or scum, Implosion can say he acted correctly.
Two things here. One, defending yourself is a part of the game, and does itself move the game forward because it helps others form reads on you. Two, I personally as a player tend to focus on defending myself whenever there are any existing attacks against me that I haven't refuted. I've had games as town where I've been just completely unable to get into the game and wound up lurking as a result, and the only way that I really managed to stop lurking was when there was pressure on me. I just don't like being incorrectly read as town.In 84, Implosion tells Chrimi why her accusation against him doesn't make sense. He's defending himself rather than moving the game forward.
I disagree that town is more or less convinced that she's a frustrated townie (or was at that point) - at that point (at least I think at that point) both AF and 0x40 were scumreading and pushing her.In 156 Implosion takes the opportunity do dismiss his fight with Chrimi as irrelevant, now that town is more or less convinced that she's a frustrated townie.
I mean, a townread would accomplish the same thing here. I also don't think I would be particularly scared of giving a full scumread on him here if I were scum - he wasn't really being arbitrarily OMGUS-y, he was tunneling Chrimi for the alt thing.Implosion gives null reads on 0x40 and Chrimi. Implosion corrects 0x40's assumprions (who is only at L-3 but is definitely not popular), but reads his play as NAI. 0x40's OMGUS behavior means that, if Implosion voted for him, Implosion could expect a kneejerk reaction, so the null reads are again the safest response.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
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Read Chrimi's case on AF. Most of the points she makes are decent in the sense that they're pretty strong evidence of him being scum if she's right about how she's interpreting them, but it looks to me like Chrimi is interpreting pretty much everything AF has said in a scummy light, or like she's assuming worst intentions. In particular calling post 59 a misrepresentation and her interpretation of him saying "Other SEs, what do you think of this" both strike me as looking at the worst possible reason he could have said those things - the former to me is not even really a representation at all, just an opinion, and the latter obviously could also just be AF wanting a second opinion. The strongest point she makes is that he called her scummy for not voting but didn't call PP scummy for not contributing content, but his response is reasonable and again just makes me think that it's a difference in how they're interpreting the game (like Chrimi said she views questions as implying scumreads, while it sounds like AF doesn't).
So I'd still call him town. I see where he was coming from on the Chrimi read and I also like him 180ing and now calling her town since the reasons for his scumread have faded, so I'd expect him to re-evaluate her if he's town.-
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0x40 Goon
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When did I ever say anything about policy lynching you?In post 255, Chrimi wrote:0x40, next post: "We should policy lynch Chrimi for not giving her alts up"
I'm posting in this thread not because I want to be nice to people and make friends or whatever, but because I want to win the game. I want you to replace not because I want to be rude, but because I think it would benefit town more if you did.In post 255, Chrimi wrote:Yes, telling a player you wish they would replace out is fucking rude.
Let's just agree to disagree on this one. I don't think convincing a VI that they're a VI is really worth the effort.In post 255, Chrimi wrote:I consider myself a pretty decent player.-
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Jibs Townie
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- Joined: July 30, 2016
- Location: Chicago
As mentioned above, I acknowledge that my 19% townread on Rocnix in 181 was a bad read with bad reasoning, and I can definitely see how that could read as TMI. I haven't posted any other strong townreads. If that's your reason for scumreading me, I'm okay with it, but I still think you have to consider other players.In post 290, 0x40 wrote: Acting like you know more about people's alignment than you should is a scumtell, because only scum could really know everyone's alignment at this point.
I don't see how you could feel that my 31% scumread on shannon was tmi without shannon's flip, especially when you seem to be reading her as town in 251.
The reasons were valid, but very minor. Certainly not something that should add up to 31 scum%. Did you have any other reasons to scumread shannon at that point that you haven't mentioned?In post 289, Jibs wrote:My reasons were fine.
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Mainly it was just overconfidence due to this being my first time playing this game. I also added a couple points to try to make my push feel stronger. It's really hard to pressure someone with a 29% read. In the future, I don't think I will give percentages--better to let people wonder.
You said that policy lynching me "might be nice," and "absolutely cannot afford toIn post 289, Jibs wrote:I think policy lynching is a terrible idea, which is why I said we can't do it.right now" seems to imply that it could be a good idea later. Can you explain why you even bought up policy lynching if you think it's such a bad idea?[/quote]
I brought it up to head off crap like 273, 274, and 275. If you had continued to tunnel Chrimi for several more rl days without posting any other legit reads, I would have considered PL, and I think you would do the same in that situation.
Your posting here is good, but it feels a little bit like you are going through the motions. I would like to see you either push me harder using other stuff I've posted (I mean look at my readlist in 284 ffs, that's like a flashing SCUM AGENDA sign) or explore other options besides me and Chrimi.-
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0x40 Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: July 17, 2016
Pretty sure I answered this when you asked me the first time. I've played a good amount of irc mafia, but this is my second game of forum mafia. I'd say I'm about as experienced as an IC, but not as familiar with the site meta, and not as used to the much slower pace of forum mafia compared to irc.In post 280, PenguinPower wrote:You never answered my question about your prior experience, so I'm going to assume you have prior experience and go with-
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AstralFlare Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 187
- Joined: July 1, 2015
Fair enough. I can see where this comes from. I was just stating some of the reasons why I townread him, and wasn't trying to decrease pressure on him. This is very town from you though.In post 282, Chrimi wrote:
He hasn't said anything about this being a reaction test, stop giving him an out. He's not "pointing fingers at everyone and putting pressure" like you seem to think he is. He's hard tunneling a single player because he doesn't understand that having alts is NAI, same with not wanting to share said alts. You're giving a looot of credit where it isn't due.In post 277, AstralFlare wrote:0x40 as town. That's the surprise done with. His style is really confrontational and provocative, far far more so than I would expect from scum. He says he's played lots of IRC mafia. I've played a lot of IRC werewolf. I can say that one of the most common plays I see good town doing is pointing fingers at everyone day one to add pressure. This is the famous reaction test, although I have doubts about how efficient it is in a slower forum format. This is also what he is doing now. Nitpicking, but 108 and 114 are good. This hammering for concrete info is good town play. I have doubts about him wanting everyone's alts, but it can't be denied that his 254 is good.
Does your case on me looks like it comes from genuine town scumhunting, or is it coming from scum trying to make up reasons to get me lynched? I think it's the former, although very misguided.
While I agree with fence-sitting, him re-evaluating you after I told him you're definitely scum and posted a case is super town of him.Implosion as very weak scumlean. I don't know. On reading his ISO, his recent posts seem waffly. 182 in particular. It is flippy floppy sit-on-the-fence, with him looking unwilling to really commit to anything, while simultaneously trying to reserve the "it's late and I'm sleepy" backdoor if he gets called out. In fact, after another readthrough I seem to notice he's just following the flow of the game, following the majority, lynching someone when others do, townleaning someone when everyone else does. Like right now, he says he's re-evaluating me, after Chrimi voiced her opinion that I was scum. His posts thus far have also been more I agree/I disagree. There's a lack of question marks. Not sure if this is a playstyle thing, but even if it is I think he should be more active in scumhunting.
I can definitely agree @ the lack of question marks though.
Scum build awful cases very often, in fact if a case is awful that is usually because it's wrong. The real thing you want to look for is if a case looks like it's coming from genuine town scumhunting, or if it's coming from scum trying to make up reasons to get someone lynched.Chrimi is town. Lol. This is based on her 259 readlist and her tone over the past few pages. I don't think scum would build such an awful case on me as well. More on that later.
Now you're the one taking pressure off someone else. Why are you defending her? SHe has been really unhelpful, and you should helping to put pressure on her so we can tease something out.
It's called a joke. And while her posts are small and not huge on content, this is:TNE as very weak scumlean until I get that Shannon case. It's been 6 posts. She's switched her opinion from totoro-san big that it's Shannon/PP, but now has her vote on 0x4x? I'd like an explanation. Her average postlength looks to be about 30 words, and she hasn't posted a readlist yet. Not helping town.
1. Per her meta
2. To be expected in most games who are this far into Day One
The abnormality in this game is how much content the rest of us are posting with so little information to go off of, really.
He explained that, and I accepted it.
Now this just pings scumteam for me hardcore. No real specifics at all or information, like the rest of your reads had. "He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing" even after making a case on me, tunneling into it before suddenly switching to someone else seemingly out of the blue before I even posted a readslist?PP as uh, null? I can't tell what you guys find so scummy about him. He hasn't done anything really attention grabbing, his short exchange with Chrimi felt pretty meaningless.
Oh, yes you've changed from
You're misunderstanding.In post 278, AstralFlare wrote:
I said she was anti town because she dodged questions and didn't support her claims, not because I disagreed with her. Also her tendency to shove aside anyone who FoSed her as asinine didn't make her look any more townie. Towns try to advance the game, not keep it at a standstill. That's changed since, and I'm glad.In post 257, implosion wrote: FTR I really do strongly disagree with the characterization of Chrimi as an anti-town VI. She's providing a lot of reasoned content, and just because you disagree with that content does not make her a VI, or anti-town. This refers to both AstralFlare and 0x40. And I really do think in both of these cases it is mostly just disagreement.
I haven't changed at all.
I wasn't calling people asinine for FoSing me, and I didn't dodge any questions. I didn't make any claims to support, because I was too busy dealing with several players (mostly 0x40) telling me that I was scum forhaving alts.
You saying I was anti-town was totally misrep, and now you're misrepping why you did it in the first place. Yuck.
to 259Jibs, congratulating implosion on getting me to say something about alignment, as if we were into the game enough that I had been avoiding it for any particular amount of time, is asinine.
implosion attempting a serious case on me before page 5 is asinine, hence why I don't take his case seriously at all.
Penguin assuming that an SE telling him that information doesn't benefit town is somehow scummy, is asinine. I'm telling you that alts don't benefit town much as an SE, regardless of my alignment.
0x40, I do have a good reason, and you whining about it when having alts isn't game related in any way is asinine.
Jibs, assuming shannon is scum because she has literally nothing to go on because it's page five is asinine.
Astroflare is just being asinine in general, especially with the misreps after I explained that one is a fucking hydra.
In one you were lashing out at anything you disagreed with, in another you were providing actual discussion.
[/quote]kk point by point rebuttal rebuttal
Spoiler: rebute that shit
I don't see any value in continuing this part of our discussion. I would rather be analyzing the posts of people who are currently null for me and asking questions rather than defending myself over nothing.-
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Rocnix Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 27
- Joined: July 31, 2016
Implosion's defense makes enough sense as town. We were reading the situation differently, so he responded in ways that didn't quite make sense to me.
UNVOTE: Implosion
VOTE: thenewearth and this time I'm going to leave it there until she does something. AstralFlare, you care about this too, so hold me to that.
Shannon, I have a bit of an oddball question for you (or anyone who would like to throw in their two cents): Who do you think is in the most danger of being nightkilled?-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
- Polymath
- Polymath
- Posts: 14664
- Joined: September 9, 2010
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: zoraster's wine cellar
And now I want to call rocnix townier. That's a really, really weird 180 to make if she's scum. She just got a case on me and I think it's not that hard to rebut what I said if she's scum and wants to keep pushing.
I'm actually ironically gonna join the tne wagon for now, I know I called her gut town just a little earlier but I think some pressure on her right now will be beneficial - her unexplained vote on 0x40 is a bit troubling, particularly if it's the obvious justification of him pushing on the alt stuff which imo is a bit one-dimensional to push on without further explanation. She hasn't really said anything of substance in the past couple of days. She's implied some stuff wrt shannon but never really explained it or followed up on it, and has been getting bogged down in the 0x40-Chrimi interaction even after she pointed out that it's probably best to ignore it.
Unvote
VOTE: thenewearth
I think I'm starting to get a better handle on reads this game. I actually think Rocnix's push on me was somewhat town and her backing off has cemented that it looks to me like it's coming from a genuine interest in finding scum. AF is still town, Jibs is still town, 0x40 is likely town. Chrimi is moderately townish at this point as well I think, or at the very least the way she's been playing the game is enough for me to not really be interested in lynching her today. shannon still has a little bit of towncred but we'll see how the game plays out because I'm not confident on her in any capacity yet. Penguin/tne are where I think I'll focus my efforts for a bit unless I see good reason to look elsewhere. I am interested in what tne was looking at with respect to shannon.-
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implosion he/himPolymathhe/him
- Polymath
- Polymath
- Posts: 14664
- Joined: September 9, 2010
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: zoraster's wine cellar
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