Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[innocentvillager]

Hey sorry prodge, am busyt his weekend will post monday.

[Vaxkiller]

@reso

So like I wrote before, I really believe that 2 of the following 3 people are scum - hiplop/innocentvillager/Vedith. I can't in good conscious vote for yourself or Ryan and I don't think Mav's infractions warrant lynching either (hes commin in at the last moment to save me... even tho earlier int he day he thought the opposite of me). It's hard to lynch someone who has your back... but he does have some explaining to do. So the following people are the only ones I can vote for, and I'm putting them in the preferred order and listing their infractions as I see them. I'm also going to paraphrase my posts so it's not so long, but I will provide the link to the post in case you need to check for details/fact checking.

1. hiplop

In day 1 I posted this: 481 The point of the post then was about cobalt agreeing with what hiplop floating the idea of myself being scum. What I should have been concentrating MORE on however was WHO started floating the idea out there, starting the setup for later in the game, which I also point out in that post. He just says, "I think hes scum but I cant say why". When you post something like that it begs to be proved, it puts the idea into peoples heads to look for a reason! Cobalt was quick with a response, that something seemed off with me, and I jumped all over that, but now I'm in his situation, and I understand it.

TLDR Instead of saying I seem scummy, he says he thinks I'm scum but can't say why, which to me gets people looking for anything.

His day 1 vote was SO LAZY, outlined in my post here: 590 He literally says "Vote cobalt, interested in this" later on he says... oh yeah I have a scum read on him. No explanation. This is going to be pretty typical for him too... until hes found out later, he posts ALOT, but now that I'm likely going to be voted its another dryspell.... It this post I also point out he never gave us the research he promised. LATER on he gives us a few drips about how he looked real hard over his games (how can I believe that without posting more thoughts than he did?)

HIPLOP DOES NOT SCUMHUNT

- Feel free to read, it's not taht long: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Slip #1 Post 644

Would prefer to remain quiet on that for now

WTF

My first thought was wtf, why? Why would he reveal??? He has to be fishing, right? Is it too subtle? No everyone has to see what that means. I immediately didn't believe him, then I questioned
myself and was not sure. To me he claimed and I posted 647 ***IMPORTANT*** I am only saying the next part because reso pointed out to me Mav thought differently in the begging of the day, proving I'm wrong*** I was hoping someone else would just come vote and not claim because that would prove everything. To me Mav did this, but I was also worried he just voted because I came in and said this!!!! 648 Thinking the same about me.

Slip # 2 post 750 Here he accidentally quotes Vedith.. maybe it really was an accident... or maybe he was looking at his scum buddies posts to see how he thought... The reason I do not like this is because he has 0 interaction with Vedith except in one post:

In post 682, Vedith wrote:
This is a lynch because he's holding information back from us even when he is at L1. Town HipLop knows better than that.

Town hiplop knows to not say anything that doesn't need to be said and town vedith should realize that. Cool? COOL.

This post seems off. It almost seems like some scum cross talk, but even if you don't believe that, Vedith asks who hiplop thinks we should vote for. Hiplop does not respond to him, but votes me. Vedith joins in voting for me after innocentvillager.

Vedith - Incoming tomorrow morning hopefully

Been up for almost 2 hours typing this out and I'm tired. I will pick up on Vedith tomorrow and add my 2 cents about innocentvillager now. I would much rather see a Vedith Lynch than innocentvillager at the moment, but that can change if he starts talking and not reading the game....

MOST of what I do not like about innocentvillager has to do with his interactions with hiplop which are odd (two people yelling the that other is town....) He has done little scumhunting, but more than hiplop. They also like voting together for the same reasons! (Reasons: "Feels scummy") God help us if innocentvillager is just running off an early hiplop townread and not reading the rest of the game to know whats going on and just following what he does....

[Vaxkiller]

Hey sorry prodge, am busyt his weekend will post monday.

You mean day 3.... sigh.

[RyanK]

@hiplop

: Add Vaxkiller's post to what you have to respond to.

@reso

: Hammer 24 hours before day 3 is over, reso, unless you would prefer a MyLo tomorrow.

[reso]

Remind me to never again to put myself in a position where I am the hammer vote. Because this is stressful.

Vax, I really like the first part of your hiplop case, about hiplop not scum hunting. I honestly wasn't looking at activity like that. I was just thinking about who was talking and who was not. This is basically what I meant when I said, "All opportunities for interactions have been wasted away...", hiplop. On one side of the vote, we have someone who does spend the time to post and attack, and on the other side of the vote, upon reinspecting hiplop's ISO, I will agree with you in that he's taken a very passive basically-non-existent approach to scum-hunting.


IV is mostly null, but leaning scum. There is not much in his posts that ping my affiliation radar. His vote on Phantom in Day 1 felt genuine, as it happened before Maverick blew the case on Phantom out of proportion. But that's all I have on him in terms of positive reads, unfortunately. I'M VERY HAPPY THAT YOU POINTED OUT IV, because the one negative read I have on IV (the one that I literally realized right now) is his vote on you in #734. Immediately follows up with:

I have a lot more investigating to do (I haven't really ISO'd anyone yet), but for now I'm liking Vax for scum. Mav and Vedith I will need to sort later.

And further accentuates his thoughts on you with:

Yeah Vax is pinging my gut scumdar so hard.

Not a single reason for his vote on you, to this moment. I... just don't get gut feeling votes. Why put a vote on someone if you can't get people to see your PERSPECTIVE on it? Either you vote with good reason, or you don't. There is no motivation in helping fellow townies if you aren't able to explain your vote because I am certainly not going to jump onto a wagon for a 'gut feeling', for a reason-less 'he be pinging me gut scumdar so hard.... YARRRRRRRRRRR ME MATEYS' post (I apologize to any and all pirates that read that; I am not pirate-ist). This applies to hiplop's un-explainable vote on you as well. I just don't understand their train of thought.


I've already shown you what I thought about Vedith. I've gone as far as stating that if I think another possible scum pairing besides you/Maverick would be hiplop/Vedith. But I will await your post about him.

I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY MADDENING THAT BOTH THE PEOPLE I WANT TO QUESTION WON'T BE HERE UNTIL DAY 3.

Hiplop, any rebuttals?

[reso]

I'll hammer within the last 12 hours, because I am also awaiting a response from hiplop.

[RyanK]

...
Not a single reason for his vote on you, to this moment. I... just don't get gut feeling votes. Why put a vote on someone if you can't get people to see your PERSPECTIVE on it? Either you vote with good reason, or you don't. There is no motivation in helping fellow townies if you aren't able to explain your vote because I am certainly not going to jump onto a wagon for a 'gut feeling', for a reason-less 'he be pinging me gut scumdar so hard.... YARRRRRRRRRRR ME MATEYS' post (I apologize to any and all pirates that read that; I am not pirate-ist). This applies to hiplop's un-explainable vote on you as well. I just don't understand their train of thought.
...

Also, to add on to this, innocentvillager is a very analytical player, and would show everyone his analysis on why someone is or isn't scum. Even if he doesn't have that much time, he would at least state a reason. In fact, he even admitted he didn't have one when he voted.

...
Since you agree with hiplop that Vaxkiller is scummy, please state why.

I told you I couldn't really put a finger on it, much like hiplop earlier. That one post I just quoted is an example of some of the gut scummy things he says. When someone ends something with "Then again, maybe it is just all wifom OMINOUS DOT DOT DOT" it looks like they're just outing reads to say stuff without actually scumhunting and it looks insincere.

...

@innocentvillager:

After you're a little more free, please give us more reasons to believe that Vaxkiller is scum.
This is not of any value to me, but I'm stating this anyway as most people would be oblivious about it. innocentvillager and hiplop voted each other at the start of the game.

[RyanK]

...

@innocentvillager:

After you're a little more free, please give us more reasons to believe that Vaxkiller is scum.
...

On second thought, there's no reason for us to believe Vaxkiller is scum. Hammer hiplop away, reso within 12 hours before deadline. As the within implies, you could do it later than that.

[reso]

Oh. He did address his problem of his lack of reasoning with his vote on Vaxkiller. I didn't see that.

But still, even now, ever since Day 1, still nothing concrete on your suspicions? Still just a 'gut feeling'?

[RyanK]

Oh. He did address his problem of his lack of reasoning with his vote on Vaxkiller. I didn't see that.

But still, even now, ever since Day 1, still nothing concrete on your suspicions? Still just a 'gut feeling'?

He didn't give us a reason with that reply, whcih means he didn't have a reason.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm running out of time here so this is going t be quick. If the hammer still has not been executed later tonight I will post more, but I will not be home until later tonight.

Vedith - Vedith day 1 seemed kind of a null read (excusing Rusty's posts, which I think everyone is taking them as NOOB scum/town WIFOM arguments)
Day 2 he votes for me early on, citing I was gunning for 0x40, and look, now hes dead, it must be Vaxkiller! No one was buying this, Mav pointed out, if anything, this most likely proves I'm town, but could also be considered WIFOM. Shortly after I began voting for hiplop, Ryan jumped on and BOOM Vedith jumps on too. But his post is REALLY odd - But lest back up 1 post.

Ryan posts here 594 about his thoughts on hiplop. 1 good thought about, how if hiplop really didn't want a hammer to happen why didn't he unvote why he collected his thoughts? (I agree with this, but I don't this its vote worthy) Ryan's 2nd thought is hiplop was if he will post a few times a day and hasnt... so he lied.... This really isn't a lie in my opinion, and seems like a silly reason to vote someone over. It would be simialr if someone said their favorite food was pizzza and we caught them later in the thread saying they just LOVED hamburgers.

So know Vedith comes and and agrees with Ryans thought about hiplop "lying" and votes for him here: 595 To me this post is REALLY weird, it has a number of possible outcomes. I think Vedith wanted to vote for his scum buddy early on in the day using some bad logic so he could jump back off later (to me the first train in a day rarely gets lynched)... and if for some reason hiplop did get lynched, he would be seen as more town.

Time goes by and hiplop finally speaks, he then uses this message to tell Vedith to back off, and that hes actually alive and wants to participate in this game now!

Town hiplop knows to not say anything that doesn't need to be said and town vedith should realize that. Cool? COOL.

Okay, so in your point of view, who should be lynching today?

Vedith asks hiplop who he should vote for. Shortly after hiplop votes me (for no reasons given) then innocent villager votes me (for the same reasons) The Vedith jumps on.

When I asked Vedith for reasons, at least he provides "something" His post can be found here: 812

I don't unstand the post one bit to be honest. I read ALL his posts before I asked him why, and I was confused. He has some weird logic in there... but at least hes not saying that "He thinks im scum" like inno and hiplop.

588 In this post he blames me for 0x40 death.
621 He says I'm distancing... but doesn't say from what.
760 He says I'm lying for saying hiplop was trying to prove his own innocence by showing innocentvillager's "innocence"

I have a few other random thoughts but I have to go, but one more thought on hiplop/Mav before I go.

A few other unaddressed thoughts - Mav never answers Hiplop, he seems way to busy tunneled on cobalt (can't argue with that, but he should be looking elsewhere as well) I wanted to point this out for future reference, If your scumbuddy asks you a direct question, I would say you are likely to answer it thinking they have some sort of plan, but MAV ignores him. If Hiplop flips scum in the future, I think this makes Mav more than likely town.

I hope to have some time later, but I understand you have stuff to do and can't wait forever.

[Firebringer]

Dragon Training Tip #23. Robotics. Dragons don't like having robotic attachments on them. Most have some kind of allergies to electronics and wiring. So they don't take it kindly to you putting all that tech on them. Also it puts unneeded distractions to a dragon. Say if you have a try on the dragon and start playing the real housedragon of berk. Dragon will try to stop flying and watch. Bad bad bad. You will crash

Vote Count 2.08

Reso (L-4):
Vedith (L-4):
Vaxkiller(L-1): hiplop,innocentvillager, Vedith,
RyanK (L-4):
innocentvillager (L-4):
Maverick1102 (L-4):
hiplop (L-1): Vaxkiller, Maverick1102, RyanK,

Not Voting (1): Reso,

With 7 Alive, It Takes 4 to Lynch

Day 2 Ends In (expired on 2016-08-15 02:00:00)

Mod Notes: I have returned!
Innocentvillager getting prodded

[reso]

Dear Mod,

You forgot about RyanK's vote onto hiplop in #817.
Thanks, and have nice day.

~Thanks

[hiplop]

@hiplop

: What are your reads now?

town: maverick, reso, innocent are my strong reads. Leaving scum as ryanK, vedith, vaxkiller. Chance I'm wrong on maverick. Fairly confident in reso/inno

[hiplop]

My first thought was wtf, why? Why would he reveal??? He has to be fishing, right? Is it too subtle? No everyone has to see what that means. I immediately didn't believe him, then I questioned
myself and was not sure. To me he claimed and I posted 647 ***IMPORTANT*** I am only saying the next part because reso pointed out to me Mav thought differently in the begging of the day, proving I'm wrong*** I was hoping someone else would just come vote and not claim because that would prove everything. To me Mav did this, but I was also worried he just voted because I came in and said this!!!! 648 Thinking the same about me.

If this isnt *blatant* rolefishing, I'm not sure what is? This is scum trying to make sense of a puzzle they don't have all the pieces for.

[hiplop]

His day 1 vote was SO LAZY, outlined in my post here: 590 He literally says "Vote cobalt, interested in this" later on he says... oh yeah I have a scum read on him. No explanation. This is going to be pretty typical for him too... until hes found out later, he posts ALOT, but now that I'm likely going to be voted its another dryspell.... It this post I also point out he never gave us the research he promised. LATER on he gives us a few drips about how he looked real hard over his games (how can I believe that without posting more thoughts than he did?)

If a hammer hadn't been dropped immediately, I may have swayed off of phantom? The guy is mislynch bait. I 've seen it happen a whole lot. Yeah, my vote there

was weak

. I specifically asked for no hammer so I could evaluate his play

[hiplop]

Slip # 2 post 750 Here he accidentally quotes Vedith.. maybe it really was an accident... or maybe he was looking at his scum buddies posts to see how he thought... The reason I do not like this is because he has 0 interaction with Vedith except in one post:

its a common quote bug on the site. If you press quick reply it'll just quote things sometimes. This is a blatant misrep, trying to spin something that isn't there. Mudsligning and throwing shade is really the only goal of comments like this

upon reinspecting hiplop's ISO, I will agree with you in that he's taken a very passive basically-non-existent approach to scum-hunting.

I disagree strongly. I have found very clear, strong townreads I'm not willing to waiver on. I really do believe vax is scum. What he is doing here does not benefit town in any universe. Seriously, it doesn't.

[hiplop]

^ To me, this reads of survivalism of the scum variety. Trying to shift attention to anyone but them. Obviously a wagon on me has bearing considering 3 people are here.

I feel like vaxkiller's buddy may already be voting me, so can't rely on them to hammer. Hoping if they swing it to someone like IV, they can grab townreso to vote with them

@people, thoughts on this post?

[hiplop]

What is the reason, and why is it wise not to dwell on the hypothesis?

All it does it benefit scum, give them information they don't particularly need. Am I being ballsy? Yes. Is it for purpose? YES.

Your reasonings aren't, placing an opaque wall in front of what you think of the game.

I think it is

very

clear why I believe vax is scum.

This is PoE from here. Never lynch in reso/mav/inno and its a win.

I'm fine with being lynched, tomorrow. It will be obvious why. All I can say. If you really think I'm scum, I'll lay down and let myself die tomorrow (day 3).

Your lack of response to questions of your actions doesn't benefit the town at all, preventing us from understanding your actions, which is what a scum would want to do.

Don't understand what you're saying here. Clarify?

Maybe you mis-worded it. It's alignment fishing. He's just saying that it is illogical that if you're a town PR, you wouldn't make it so obvious you're one.

Also, how could you not make assumptions. We can't be sure whether someone is scum or not.

Huge difference in alignment hunting and role hunting. Town doesnt need to know where the PR's are. Scum does. Ya feel?

I am. He's saying that townreading innocentvillager for no reason seem to be claiming an investigative role, which is what any town in their right mind would never do. Why did you give yourself away as an investigative role, assuming you're town?

No assumptions, please. Seriously. Cut this out.

[Vaxkiller]

I wild hiplop appeared!

He uses smoke-screen.

It's not very effective.

j/k glad you could make it hiplop, sad to see we wont be hearing from innocent and mav before someone gets lnyched...

Anyway, I don't have much more on Vedith. His recent posts seemed to be pushing hard on me, and it had nothing to do with anything except calling me scum, not pointing out things I did, until I asked for him to (which I address in my above post). But then I did the same back to him, none of which were helpful (like that numbers argument)

If I have to compare my 3 scum reads I would put hiplop and innocentvillager into the same category of not explaining any of their scum reads except to say (this person seems scummy), and providing almost no scumhunting and little substance to the game. Vedith actually does some scum hunting but I do not like his actions and interactions with other people in the game, explained above, and he appears scummy that way.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm fine with being lynched, tomorrow. It will be obvious why. All I can say. If you really think I'm scum, I'll lay down and let myself die tomorrow (day 3).

Then lets lynch you today, because I'm not fine with dying tomorrow, it will be obvious why.

[reso]

If this isnt *blatant* rolefishing, I'm not sure what is? This is scum trying to make sense of a puzzle they don't have all the pieces for.

I don't find rolefishing to be particularly AI. If doing so is scummy, so be it. But I've seen scum as well as town utilize it. More often than not, I feel like it's actually town that rolefishes more because the scum don't want to risk being called out for rolefishing.

I disagree strongly. I have found very clear, strong townreads I'm not willing to waiver on. I really do believe vax is scum. What he is doing here does not benefit town in any universe. Seriously, it doesn't.

I still think you're giving clear reads while giving unclear reasons. You've been giving more reasons than before, but you are keeping thing unclear by making us look for the things you talk about rather than you concisely explaining your PERSPECTIVE on things, where as Vaxkiller has made a case, and he does point out specific pieces of posts, and he does explain the context.

^ To me, this reads of survivalism of the scum variety. Trying to shift attention to anyone but them. Obviously a wagon on me has bearing considering 3 people are here.

I feel like vaxkiller's buddy may already be voting me, so can't rely on them to hammer. Hoping if they swing it to someone like IV, they can grab townreso to vote with them

@people, thoughts on this post?

As the person that asked for Vax to convince me, if by survivalism, you mean opportunism, then yes, I agree. But I ALSO ASKED FOR YOUR REBUTTAL AND WAITED FOR YOU TO GIVE A REPLY AS WELL. You answering like this is also you trying to shift attention to them and not you. I really don't understand the point you were trying to make here.



I'm running out of time. I will also be V/LA, and most likely, I won't be back until 2 - 4 days after the start of Day 3. If I'm lucky (or unlucky), as early as the morning cusp of Day 3.

VOTE: hiplop

[innocentvillager]

Fuck

hiplop is town dude

I'm pretty sure you hammered wrong

[innocentvillager]

RyanK's "case" on me from what I've seen doesn't make any sense. Ryan, feel free to quote it tomorrow for me.

I'm really disappointed hiplop was killed over Vax, but to be fair, I wasn't super active and pushing the Vax lynch so I'm partially responsible for this.

One of Vax/Vedith is scum, and I wanted to figure out who it was today by testing Vax flip, but we probably won't be getting that luxury tomorrow in lylo.

hiplop please flip scum by some miracle

[Firebringer]

Dragon Training Tip 24. Sleep. Dragons in average sleep about 12 hours per day, without this sleep a dragon would be in a bad mood or what some might call cranky.

Vote Count 2.09

Reso (L-4):
Vedith (L-4):
Vaxkiller(L-1): hiplop,innocentvillager, Vedith,
RyanK (L-4):
innocentvillager (L-4):
Maverick1102 (L-4):
hiplop (L-0): Vaxkiller, Maverick1102, RyanK, Reso

Not Voting (0):

With 7 Alive, It Takes 4 to Lynch

Day 2 Ends In (expired on 2016-08-15 02:00:00)

Mod Notes: