Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[aronagrundy]

Hey y'all, feel free to call me arona if it's easier. I had an account on this site like five years ago, but that was a long time ago and I'm a different person now. And I wasn't ever good at this game so here I am. I do know that we're supposed to random vote, so

VOTE: nn30

[aronagrundy]

Ooooh thanks.

VOTE: Titus

no lynches are bad, but so is voting for someone for legitimately asking a question. you could've at least waited for an answer y'know?

[aronagrundy]

@Titus: it's a newbie game, plus i didn't see any mafia experience in his post history. Also I'm not sure pushing for a no lynch D1 is really optimum scum strategy, so i don't know what heat you're talking about.

[aronagrundy]

if we don't lynch, we don't catch scum. Scum know this and thus favor no lynching. There's also no info to go off of to see who is right, who is wrong, and who should recalibrate.

Since this was partially directed toward me, I was trying more to say that I'm not sure I've ever seen scum try to explicitly push a no lynch D1 as a strategy. I could be wrong though.

Ooooh thanks.

VOTE: Titus

no lynches are bad, but so is voting for someone for legitimately asking a question. you could've at least waited for an answer y'know?

This is less than 20 posts into the game, and therefore should still be considered RVS, unless somebody has a good reason for a legit vote. Why do you think Titus voting nn as a possible random vote is any scummier than you voting Titus for said vote?

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

[aronagrundy]

Btw speaking of things that are weird:

Ooooh thanks.

VOTE: Titus

no lynches are bad, but so is voting for someone for legitimately asking a question. you could've at least waited for an answer y'know?

This is less than 20 posts into the game, and therefore should still be considered RVS, unless somebody has a good reason for a legit vote. Why do you think Titus voting nn as a possible random vote is any scummier than you voting Titus for said vote?

That moment when you look up and realize you're not the IC when going to quote it.

This is what we call a derp.

Hey Titus. Less derp, more towniness please. What about nn's theory of a no lynch makes you think he's scum, rather than a newb that honestly doesn't understand?

You go from describing Titus's vote on nn as "possibly random," to stating that titus has a scumread on nn. Do you think the nn vote was random or not?

I agree with the votes that algebra is getting, but for now VOTE: shaddowez

[aronagrundy]

Also just warn me if this is going to turn into a discussion on the semantics of random voting because I can't be sober for that

[aronagrundy]

Nope! Why

[aronagrundy]

Unvote

(Btw I think I was voting for shadow not Titus)

Great, so according to your own words, we're far out of RVS but you're still joking around?

Also, given your behavior towards my push, my reply details the fact you are phased. That's pretty true. Stop trying to be bigman on campus if you're town. Stop joking around. A joke is ok, but retracting a vote based on its a joke doesn't make any sense. You seem to be doing whatever it is that gets people to like you. Well guess what I like odd balls.

Then why are you trying to phase him on purpose?

[aronagrundy]

Btw i unvoted because I'm cool with shaddowez's response to my vote if it wasn't clear

[aronagrundy]

reading through the thread and I realized I forgot to answer a question:

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

But nn30 did want a no lynch. Titus quoted this post, to answer this question:

What's the math on that?

However, I believe her vote was more about this post:

I'll start us off with some strategy talk...

@arona: you didn't cast a new vote: why?

[aronagrundy]

SORRY hit submit early!
reading through the thread and I realized I forgot to answer a question:

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

But nn30 did want a no lynch. Titus quoted this post, to answer this question:

What's the math on that?

However, I believe her vote was more about this post:

I'll start us off with some strategy talk...

He was still asking about why no lynches were bad in response to algebra telling him so.

@arona: you didn't cast a new vote: why?

[/quote]
Because I was quickly skimming the thread in the morning on the bus and was specifically responding to titus's post. I didn't want to place a legit vote until I had the chance to sit down and really read the thread more closely

[aronagrundy]

As it stands, I'm still suspicious of titus. But I agree with shaddowez/algebra about nn30 so I'm fine with joining this wagon and seeing where this goes.

VOTE: nn30

[aronagrundy]

Also, titus what are your thoughts on the heat nn30 is getting (at least all you witnessed before logging out)? I'm having some trouble figuring how suspicious you think he is.

[aronagrundy]

@dunhallyn: Yeah I think it's just a matter of preference. Since my problems that led to voting shaddowez were addressed and I was fine with the reasoning, I wouldn't want to mislead the town into thinking I still thought he was suspicious.

Also,
@morningtweet: any reason you're still holding onto your rvs vote?

[aronagrundy]

I am paricularly concerned with Grundy and algebra there.

Grundy didn't understand my logic but immediately sheeps the logic when algebra is up for lynch...uhh what?

I agreed with shaddowez's logic and took issue with yours. It's not like you two had the same arguments beyond "nn30 is scummy"

[aronagrundy]

@dunn: I agree that algebra wasn't (and hardly is now) actively scumhunting and often feels like he's more just providing commentary on what's happening, but at the same time hasn't changed his behavior despite the pressure of L-1. I feel like Titus and nb30 are better lynches st this point, so I don't want to lynch him right now.

[aronagrundy]

explain inconsistent. Also algebra never scumread me so I'm not sure why you're setting up associations that don't exist

[aronagrundy]

Just because arona doesn't want to listen to your foolishness doesn't make him scum, lol

This is the only time algebra mentions me. I don't understand your logic.

[aronagrundy]

@dunn: well, I think a better way to put it is that algebra has been consistently uncooperative, which is a big reason why he's being suspected right now. It just makes me wonder if this is just his playstyle. I think he's anti-town regardless. Contrast this with Titus who I suspect mostly because of repeated gaps in her logic despite being consistent in her style.

@nn30: please explain why algebra's post 172 doesn't make sense.

[aronagrundy]

@titus: I do believe algebra is anti town (whether scum or unhelpful town) but I'm not going to dismiss every single post they make. I think 172 does make sense in the context of your case and I think it's bizarre that nn30 reacted so strongly to it.

[aronagrundy]

attempt at solving the game. Willing to bet he's stubborn town actually.

So throw me on his scum team ty

Who is the bolded part directed toward?

[aronagrundy]

I've been thinking about titus's case against me and algebra, and I'm actually reconsidering my scumread on her. The case just seems like a high risk/low reward sort of deal if titus is scum, for the following reasoning:
-One of us flips town (they lynch me or algebra ends up being town), in which case she will be immediately put under suspicion.
-algebra flips scum, in which case I stand a greater chance of being lynched but she sacrificed her scumbuddy to do so.

Of course, I think her case against me is very wrong, but I'm leaning more toward titus being town at the moment. I think she's tunneling algebra and myself and definitely going down the wrong path on my end, but still town.

@empoof:

I should explain the question I asked you in my previous post:

attempt at solving the game. Willing to bet he's stubborn town actually.

So throw me on his scum team ty

Who is the bolded part directed toward?

Everyone that is trying to solve the game :RollerCoasterEmoji:

The only person really throwing anyone on algebra's supposed scumteam is titus. It struck me as odd that you would make light of her logic even though she appears to be your strongest townread and you're currently supported her case against me.

Yeah it's probably Grundy and algebra here. Nn30 just fears being lynched as town. Grundy and algebra are inconsistent and scumread each other but vote elsewhere.

I like this headspace but I'm not there yet. I watched nn flounder and didn't read it as townie, and the aggressive tone nn had at the accusation of nn/titus felt extremely misguided. Algebra also had verbatim the same reaction I had when nn posted "the answer to the question I was asking". But Arona is sticking out like a sore thumb to me and this scum team is really logical.

Lynch aronagrundy

I'm pissed that my 2 harder scum reads (in nn and arona) aren't likely to be on the same team.

I'm seeing if arona then algebra, but not holistically the other way around with the lack of substance from algebra.
@Titus do you think lynching algebra would be preferable to arona with your current reads? Why? What makes algebra look "worse" to you? How would you convince me to get on the algebra wagon everyone's talking about.

I see a lot of problems with this post. First, a big part of titus's scumread is specifically my supposed relationship with algebra. To be even more specific, how I have mentioned my suspicions of algebra twice and both times voted elsewhere. If you believe algebra is town, I don't see how you could have reached the same conclusion as titus. So why did I stand out as scummy?

Also, why are you treating titus's word as gospel? As dun and I have pointed out, some of her statements about algebra's relationship with me (i.e. that he is scumreading me in the first place) are incorrect. You're basically asking titus for a reason to sheep her.

Right now I'm suspicious of you. I can't shake of the feeling that you're trying to push titus's case to get me and then her lynched (after I flip town) so that town mislynches twice in a row.

[aronagrundy]

I've been thinking about titus's case against me and algebra, and I'm actually reconsidering my scumread on her. The case just seems like a high risk/low reward sort of deal if titus is scum, for the following reasoning:
-One of us flips town (they lynch me or algebra ends up being town), in which case she will be immediately put under suspicion.
-algebra flips scum, in which case I stand a greater chance of being lynched but she sacrificed her scumbuddy to do so.

Of course, I think her case against me is very wrong, but I'm leaning more toward titus being town at the moment. I think she's tunneling algebra and myself and definitely going down the wrong path on my end, but still town.

As I was making the last post, a question came up.

@algebra:

I had the same reaction as you did your post 172, that if titus's case is incorrect, she should be put under suspicion. What are your thoughts on what I'm saying here, that titus's case doesn't really benefit her long-term if she's scum and do they change your feelings in post 172?

I still have a scumread on nn30 because I agree with the start of the current wagon on him, and his reaction to post 172 still doesn't make sense because at the time titus had clearly articulated that she believed that the scumteam was algebra and myself.

That being said, I want to pursue empoof right now for the reasons I mentioned already so
VOTE: Empoof

[aronagrundy]

I should now clarify re: nn30 since I don't want to be misinterpreted here now that I no longer share algebra's feelings about titus.

if nn30 had responded to algebra saying that titus was suspicious for the reasons that I have for thinking titus is town atm, that would be one thing. But to frame his answer in the way he is saying, that titus is against him, is just a misrepresentation of what's going on in the game, and seems like a desperate way to get the heat off of him.

[aronagrundy]

Ok one more post and then I'm done. Empoof when I'm talking about your townread on algebra I'm referring to the one you held before agreeing with titus. I'm aware you think he's my scumbuddy

[aronagrundy]

@empoof

(the next 4 quotes are empoof quotes)

Titus calls arona algebra's scum buddy since they are currently talking about algebra but arona just walks right over it. Post 68 is scum.

I said "Nope! why"...how is this walking right over it? I didn't press the issue since titus didn't bring it up again until like page 7.

post 129/130 unvotes shadow and doesn't revote after previously "agreeing with algebra votes", this is odd behaviour. scum.
post 154 says doesn't vote because wanted to read more closely. Super legit, seems town.

So...is post 129/130 town or not? You answer your own question here.

post 155 sus of titus still there from previous vote before shadow (this is kush), and agreeing with someone you had a scum read on (?) that nn looks shady so you vote him. This vote feels pretty scummy.

I was also agreeing with shaddowez (who I don't have a scumread on). I'm not going to discredit every single thing someone says just because I have a scumread on them. I agreed with shaddowez's reasoning for voting nn30, and I didn't like nn30's defense so I agreed with algebra.

the rest of the posts up into 195 just felt really bizarre. You were sitting on a vote on nn with someone you had labelled as scum in algebra, that was pressured by your other scum in Titus. Noting this is before nn freaked out about Titus association. You move algebra into anti-town while thinking he has sound logic. I had also labelled 195 as you feeling still feeling defensive about scumteam associations (which I was misread, you elaborate more in 209).

This...doesn't really summarize the rest of my posts?
(these are all my posts)

@dunhallyn: Yeah I think it's just a matter of preference. Since my problems that led to voting shaddowez were addressed and I was fine with the reasoning, I wouldn't want to mislead the town into thinking I still thought he was suspicious.

Also,
@morningtweet: any reason you're still holding onto your rvs vote?

I explain why I unvoted. This is just a followup really to my original explanation of why I unvoted which I thought you were satisfied with. And then I explain morningtweet's lack of activity.

I am paricularly concerned with Grundy and algebra there.

Grundy didn't understand my logic but immediately sheeps the logic when algebra is up for lynch...uhh what?

I agreed with shaddowez's logic and took issue with yours. It's not like you two had the same arguments beyond "nn30 is scummy"

The two major cases against nn30 started with titus on page 1 and then shaddowez later. They both had different reasoning. Not all reasoning is equal. Also I was and am still assuming that she was referring to nn30 and not algebra, since I've never voted for algebra.

I'm going to start a new post now because the rest of what I'm quoting I'm going to organize a bit differently

[aronagrundy]

Going a bit out of order to better organize

@dunn: I agree that algebra wasn't (and hardly is now) actively scumhunting and often feels like he's more just providing commentary on what's happening, but at the same time hasn't changed his behavior despite the pressure of L-1. I feel like Titus and nb30 are better lynches st this point, so I don't want to lynch him right now.

@dunn: well, I think a better way to put it is that algebra has been consistently uncooperative, which is a big reason why he's being suspected right now. It just makes me wonder if this is just his playstyle. I think he's anti-town regardless. Contrast this with Titus who I suspect mostly because of repeated gaps in her logic despite being consistent in her style.

@nn30: please explain why algebra's post 172 doesn't make sense.

I explain my feelings on algebra (which haven't changed much) and how they've changed. Note that I hadn't said anything about algebra since my vote against shaddowez, two days earlier. I agreed with the original case against algebra, because of his original comments on the titus wagon. Since then I felt that he really wasn't doing much to actively help himself and wasn't actively scumhunting, i.e. uncooperative with town. I still maintain that as long as he continues playing the way he's doing, he's anti town.

explain inconsistent. Also algebra never scumread me so I'm not sure why you're setting up associations that don't exist

Just because arona doesn't want to listen to your foolishness doesn't make him scum, lol

This is the only time algebra mentions me. I don't understand your logic.

Titus claims that algebra is scumreading me and I point out otherwise. I don't see how this is bizarre.

@titus: I do believe algebra is anti town (whether scum or unhelpful town) but I'm not going to dismiss every single post they make. I think 172 does make sense in the context of your case and I think it's bizarre that nn30 reacted so strongly to it.

To further explain post 172, which I'll just post below because I've been talking about it so much:

When nn30 flips red we should definitely consider Titus

This is following titus's push of algebra/myself as the scumteam. My initial reaction was the same as his, that if titus's push was wrong (which it is), then she should be put under suspicion. I don't think it's hard at all to understand why that would be a natural reaction and why nn30's blowup over it is weird.



A lot of the issues that you and titus have with me are about me saying that I'm suspicious of people and not necessarily voting them. I think it's important to see the context of both of my shaddowez and nn30 vote. With the shaddowez vote, the algebra wagon had just started so I commented on it. It was on my mind. That's all. And then with nn30, I had previously questioned titus on a post that she had made (which was directed toward nn30, funny enough). That's just who I am. I just like putting my thoughts out there, especially in response to how the game's flowing.

One more thing, empoof:

post 129/130 unvotes shadow and doesn't revote after previously "agreeing with algebra votes", this is odd behaviour. scum.

Why did this come up as scum when you first read it (yes I know you answer your own question about me unvoting later)? I think this only makes me scummy if algebra is scum (unless not revoting after unvoting is a major scumtell). And you didn't think that algebra was scum your first read through.

This is why I'm still voting for you. I think you're latching onto titus's argument even though it's not necessarily compatible with your own logic. Even though you're not claiming titus's logic (which as you say is "arona is scum because algebra has to be") as your own (which is that "arona has to be scum" you're still using it to try and explain in hindsight your reads on me.

[aronagrundy]

A couple more points that I forgot to include:

@empoof

responding to arona's followups: "It struck me as odd that you would make light of her logic even though she appears to be your strongest townread" I asked Titus for more reasoning because I hold a town read on them... Collaborating with other townies is a good way to win the game. I'm not treating her word as gospel at all, I actually said that I'm not quite there yet. I want more. Though I like your double mislynch theory, that's good deduction.

The "making light of her logic" bit was in response to your joke about being put on algebra's scumteam for townreading him. The only person being accused directly of that is me, by titus.

@shaddowez

You initially scumread algebra, and now (I assume since you're voting for him) nn30. Have your reads on these two changed at all?

[aronagrundy]

Aronagrundy

Unlike Empoof and Titus I liked the fact that arona tried to push Shaddowez earlier. Not only because I shared his concern over Shaddowez but also because pushing suspects that are not directly in the spotlight is a good thing to do during the day. I’m less a fan of subsequent play. I called him on not revoting after removing vote from Shaddow. As I tried to explain later on, it’s not so much the fact that he didn’t cast a new vote than the fact he felt the need to quickly remove vote from Shaddow when there was no urgent reason to do so without having another suspect in line. I noted it as “cultural” because nobody else seemed bothered by that while it’s a big thing on my home forum. Point being that scum do not want to antagonize people too much and are more careful with where their vote stand. Then there is the vote on nn30, which, as Titus has already noted, comes at a very opportunistic time to move the focus off algebra, especially when you consider that arona didn’t mention algebra at all in the post where he voted nn while he previously said he suspected algebra (see the exchange I had with arona on the matter). There are 2 additional points: first the interpretation of algebra’s #172. I’ll wait on arona’s (and Empoof’s) answer on that one but the fact arona used this flawed logic

(algebra/arona town Titus scum

) to push the accusation on Empoof doesn’t sit right with me. Second is the lengthy defense arona puts: I need to reread those with more attention but I do not share Empoof’s view and find those posts overly defensive. SO I’ve come from leaning Town to leaning scum on arona, with algebra as a very likely partner. Very unlikely to be nn30’s partner IMO.

I have explained before why I (INITIALLY) agreed with post 172. Titus was pushing algebra/myself as the scumteam. Algebra responds (right after I call out titus on her bizarre accusation that algebra is scumreading me) by saying that if nn30 is scum (meaning that algebra/myself can't be the scumteam), then titus should be put under suspicion. I shared this initial reaction. nn30 responded to 172 by saying it was illogical and I disagreed because I agreed with it at the time. Also can you clarify the bolded part because there's a symbol not showing up on my computer. I've said before that I think titus is town now.

I mean, if I come off as overly defensive it's because I think titus's case against me is wrong (as you yourself have pointed out, she's making stuff up about my relationship with algebra). Like I'd rather not get mislynched. Also I've never been seriously accused of being scum when I'm town before so there's that.

[aronagrundy]

Also because I keep on having to repeat myself

[aronagrundy]

Sorry I didn't detail the boded part: algebra/arona scum leads to Titus scum.
I understand that you say you don't believe it now, but you implied that's what algebra meant and I think you make false assumptions (see above).

My original logic was that because titus's case was wrong (and it would be wrong if nn30 flipped scum), then she had a good chance of being scum. I wasn't really thinking about it in the context of the relationship of nn30 and titus. I changed my mind to thinking titus is town regardless of her case being right or not. My case on empoof has a lot to do with titus being town so I'm not sure what you're talking about me pushing this logic of titus being scum.

Of course my assumption (that algebra is saying titus is scum because her case is wrong) could be false, but so could yours (that algebra is saying that titus is distancing herself from nn30). That's why I've asked algebra to clarify what he meant.

Now your logic is inferring that algebra town = nn30 scum, which is flawed. There is a (admittedly slim) possibility that both algebra and nn30 are town.

Explain this further. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't state this anywhere. I think you're referring to the part where I'm trying to explain what I saw as algebra's logic in 172. I meant it as, if nn30 is scum, then algebra and I can't both be scum which doesn't need explanation. This doesn't mean the same as if algebra is town, then nn30 is scum. They could both be town or both could be scum, but I agree that these two possibilities are unlikely and that one of the two is probably scum.

[aronagrundy]

@dun/algebra:

To clarify our different assumptions on page 172, I'm saying that algebra is mostly reacting to titus's push on him/myself, and saying that she's probably scushe's wrong. I assumed this because it came right after me pointing out that algebra has never scumread me. This is how I read it. Perhaps wrongly, because I was personally in the mindframe of "wtf is titus saying." In other words, I'm assuming that 172 was primarily reactionary to titus's case, and you're assuming that it's primarily accusatory of titus and nn30 as a scumteam. I admit that because of my position I never saw it the way you did and that could have been a mistake. I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call it an invalid assumption, though, since the logic behind my assumption (I think) makes sense. This does make nn30 seem less scummy, since he'd be more inclined to interpret 172 the way you did, I suppose. Of course algebra could always clarify what he meant/what he thinks now like I asked him to.

I agree with you that algebra is a liability to town and his lynch would give us information, as well that he would be liability further down the road if we have to go through My/LyLo.
VOTE: algebra

@empoof:

Since post 172 is the hot topic of the day, can you clarify your thoughts on it, and respond to the first paragraph of this post? Namely that nn30's response to 172 might be logical after all?

[aronagrundy]

btw algebra is at L-1

[aronagrundy]

grundy - your recent posts seems to be in a constant state of self-defense, rather than actually trying to scum hunt. Is your vote on algebra in 231 because you actually think he's scum, or because he's antitown? Considering we still have 6 days left, do you think a lynch on not a scum read is useful?

A good part of it was that I reevaluated a lot of my reads and I was trying to figure out where to go from there. To answer your question, when I stopped interpreting post 172 differently, I saw nn30 as less scummy. algebra ended up seeming less town because of the whole post 172 interpretation as well.

I agree with what a number of people have said and I think that nn30 and algebra can't be scum together, but it's likely that one of them is (I think there is logic behind both of the initial wagons on them). I don't think it's nn30 anymore, so yes I believe that he is likely scum right now.

That question seems kind of general. Because of the small number of players in this game and the fact that the only way we have to catch scum is to lynch someone, I don't think that we should lynch someone unless we think that they're scum.

[aronagrundy]

@algebra:

put yourself in newbscum shoes, and think: do i want to be an aggressive leader, or a passive follower? hopefully you said passive follower, because that's what nn is doing rn. ive bolded all the parts where he's indecisive/soft stance.

Is being passive necessarily a scumtell, though?

@shaddowez:

Somebody asked me about my thoughts on Zito, but I can't find the post right now (on phone). Currently I'm town reading him. He's definitely pushing, and drawing attention to himself in a way that scum generally don't like.

I'm not sure what to think of Titus right now, but know she can be stubborn as either alignment, so their back and forth being multiple pages doesn't surprise me.

So first you say her meta isn't AI, and then you say:

So, I'm going to hop on the unpopular bandwagon here and do this:

VOTE: Titus

She's backtracking whenever she's confronted about anything, and her reasoning is lackluster at best. This doesn't read like Titus' town game at all.

Examples: 61 - algebra never uses the term "preflip associations", so no idea where that's coming from. 188 she says she never had a strong scumread on nn30, but 35, 37, and 74 all seem to contradict that.

@algebra

- did you ever reread Titus, and if so what do you think?

Why are you dragging her meta into this if you yourself have said that it's not AI?

[aronagrundy]

Now reread post 172™: nn30 flips red means nn30 is guilty so algebra says “when nn30 is proven scum we should look at Titus” which is equivalent to saying nn and Titus are likely partners. I don’t see how this can read differently. Titus voted nn in the beginning, hence why I talked of distancing. Now regarding the bolded part, I’m not saying that YOU think Titus is scum, I’m saying that you are accusing Empoof of trying to get us to lynch first you/algebra then Titus because of the following logic: algebra/arona is false means Titus is scum for suggesting it so once either of you flips town, then we lynch Titus. I didn’t see Empoof suggesting that and in fact, it was you who pushed this theory.

Yes that was my logic at the time. I had just decided that titus was town after all and when empoof came along and tried to explicitly push the arona/algebra team (despite initially saying algebra was town and not really describing his suspicions toward me) I saw the possibility of opportunistic scum. I wasn't entirely satisfied with his explanations as to why he thought I was scum upon reading the thread but the speed at which he abandoned pushing algebra/myself did quite a bit to remove my suspicions (it meant he likely wasn't looking for a double mislynch after all, but also now that I'm feeling more strongly that algebra is scum the fact that he was willing to discuss lynching algebra in the first place upon his arrival gave him some town points).

I address the multiple interpretations of Post 172 and how looking more closely at them shifted my reads here:

To clarify our different assumptions on page 172, I'm saying that algebra is mostly reacting to titus's push on him/myself, and saying that she's probably scushe's wrong. I assumed this because it came right after me pointing out that algebra has never scumread me. This is how I read it. Perhaps wrongly, because I was personally in the mindframe of "wtf is titus saying." In other words, I'm assuming that 172 was primarily reactionary to titus's case, and you're assuming that it's primarily accusatory of titus and nn30 as a scumteam. I admit that because of my position I never saw it the way you did and that could have been a mistake. I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call it an invalid assumption, though, since the logic behind my assumption (I think) makes sense. This does make nn30 seem less scummy, since he'd be more inclined to interpret 172 the way you did, I suppose. Of course algebra could always clarify what he meant/what he thinks now like I asked him to.

Sorry, my English betrayed me. I meant your logic implies that algebra town= nn scum, not “infers”. I’ll try to be clearer. algebra indeed seems to suggest that Titus is pushing algebra/arona to distract us from nn30. However, you are stretching things. Because if algebra and nn are both innocent then nn30 will not flip red and Titus cannot be his partner. So by interpreting 172 the way you do, you imply that algebra town is equivalent to nn scum.
Now I wanted to clarify this but I’m too tired to make my mind on what to think regarding arona. Input welcome.

You're seeing the rejection of the possibility of algebra/nn30 both being town when it never existed. I'm pretty sure every townie that pushes a case is aware there's a chance they may be wrong and just doesn't feel the need to address the multiple ways their case may be wrong. Honestly I never gave much thought to the idea of algebra/nn30 both being town but I can't say there was ever a moment where I thought to myself, "wow it's completely impossible these guys are both town."

*snip*

That question seems kind of general.

Because of the small number of players in this game and the fact that the only way we have to catch scum is to lynch someone, I don't think that we should lynch someone unless we think that they're scum.

I’m not sure that I get the bolded part.

In larger games you see more town killing roles which can also get rid of scum. If it was twice the number of people we could get away with just ignoring algebra and leave him to be killed by the vig.

[aronagrundy]

Zito what are your thoughts on lynching algebra?

[aronagrundy]

@grundy

- regarding 258: I was asked specifically about the zito v Titus argument spanning pages. I referenced one specific aspect of Titus' meta there (stubbornness). In 250, I'm referring to what I know of her game in general, not just one aspect. You're basically asking me how I can say "This tree is dying" at the same time as saying "This forest is so lush!"

Well your specific issues with titus this game involved how she was "backtracking whenever confronted with something," which is kind of the opposite of stubborn so I took notice.

Algebra never said preflip associations, he said associative reads. How very semantic of you.

This is mostly my fault. I was literally searching for the phrase you used and didn't actually go back through his posts to see the phrasing. That said, I don't like algebra's "reminder" after you clarified.

I'm still hesitant based on this not being the town!Titus I'm used to, but not enough to have a vote there.

UNVOTE:

omg there's an unvote code, never knew.

Anyway, so you didn't even bother to research what algebra said but you knew titus was wrong anyway?
VOTE: shaddowez

[aronagrundy]

@dun
I'm voting shadow mostly for his actions, namely his weak case against titus that he immediately abandoned for unclear reasons

[aronagrundy]

Lol what

[aronagrundy]

Ok so if shaddowez flips town, I really don't see how algebra isn't going to be lynched tomorrow. If shaddowez flips scum, it might make things a little more complicated. dunn I believe said that a shaddowez/algebra scumteam doesn't seem likely but since the logic for this is a lot of "too obviously scum" I don't think it is too strong of reasoning.

[aronagrundy]

Self preservation is nai. I'd rather lynch someone who has a chance of being scum then get a conf town lynched.

Is this why you hammered shaddowez?

[aronagrundy]

lol when algebra flipped town I honestly stopped guessing. The shadow lynch was the best thing to happen to the scum 4sure. I think if algebra flipped town d1 more people would have suspected nn? Idk tho. Great job nn/tweet.

Just wondering, why did you kill me n1? A couple people read me as scum so I was surprised to be the first kill.